The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them — Guild Wars 2 Forums

The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 4, 2019 in WvW

Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

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Comments

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    More or less this.

    In a duel in WvW I would rather go vs a one shot SB than a bruiser build. However if I play my more bruiser built DH, vs a good player on glass SB, I am still in range of being 1 hit, if I block or dodge it, I still have LOTS of trouble trying to kill them, as their range and kiting or straight running ability is quite strong. Most in WvW however who you see on SB are not good at all, and are just face rolling, so they are easy enough kills even on my bruiser build. Builds that can hit that hard and that hard from stealth can make for some frustrating game play and are not good for the game mode.

    I understand why more people are running it however, or running more burst over all....The mount. If you want fights, you HAVE to be able to burst and often has to be range burst, so SB and Rev are common for this. Outside of that, you are not going to get fights and spend your time running around trying to herd cats. WvW isn't PvP anymore, its Cat Herding Simulator.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    "the only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them"

    you're not even close, broski :s

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

    Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

    Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

    The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

    How do you lose against berserker?

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

    Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

    Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

    The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

    How do you lose against berserker?

    Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    The only reason poeple complain about soulbeast is because it has a chance to dismount them

    If that would be so, then answer me why there was so much hate towards rangers (SB) even before mount release?

    Thank you, nice discuss, we should have another one in the future.
    Have a good day.

    Why is there so much ranger hate now while all the mesmer/holo/thief hate has died down?

    @noot.8641 said:
    Lol dude, if a ranger dismounts me with rapid fire, they are kitten anyways. So no, i rly don’t care about the dismounting, i am even happy when someone tried it, because then i have a fight, something u almost don’t get anymore because of the mounts. I rly dunno where u get this idea from.
    I am talking mainly when u are fighting someone and they come out of nowhere, you have 2 seconds to react or ur dead. If i have shadowstep up its easy to get away, but otherwise their burst is unblockable, and AA’s do like 5 to 6k dmg.
    What i am talking about is that the build is too strong for just pressing 2 buttons.

    A ton of classes can do that, eg mesmer and thief.

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    This is the same argument about roamers in general pre-mount, thieves, mesmers.

    Clearly they should never have had any skill nerfs since the ranger doesnt have any OP skills by the same definition.

    How is it OP when it isn't even a mandatory inclusion in every good build?

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

    Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

    Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

    The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

    How do you lose against berserker?

    Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

    And soulbeast can still use dodge, block, blind, use one of his movement skills to avoid it, arc divider is so easy to see. And the ony "good" thing that berserker has. Especially that he has nothing when hes not in berserker.

    I compared general use, not a straight matchup, also other classes can also evade soulbeast by that logic. When a soulbeast pewpews my ele ill just use one of mu 7 evades and it's no prob.

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    More or less this.

    In a duel in WvW I would rather go vs a one shot SB than a bruiser build. However if I play my more bruiser built DH, vs a good player on glass SB, I am still in range of being 1 hit, if I block or dodge it, I still have LOTS of trouble trying to kill them, as their range and kiting or straight running ability is quite strong. Most in WvW however who you see on SB are not good at all, and are just face rolling, so they are easy enough kills even on my bruiser build. Builds that can hit that hard and that hard from stealth can make for some frustrating game play and are not good for the game mode.

    I understand why more people are running it however, or running more burst over all....The mount. If you want fights, you HAVE to be able to burst and often has to be range burst, so SB and Rev are common for this. Outside of that, you are not going to get fights and spend your time running around trying to heard cats. WvW isn't PvP anymore, its Cat Harding Simulator.

    Exactly what you said, you are basically forced to play this or a rev.

    Also funny how poeple say boonbeast has no mobility when it has as much, if not more than soulbeast.

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭

    My main problem with soulbeast is, it's a ranged high-damage class with a ridiculous mobility. Either nerf the ranged damage capabilities or reduce the distance they can cover with two leaps.

    [NUKE]

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Bunkers are still the best 1v1 specs right now and soulbeast can't do anything to stop them, if you run full glass then you are toast as soon as they evade your burst, the balanced build is better. Like really bring the oh-so broken soulbeast against a mirage, chrono, berserker, protection holo or boonbeast, or a good hybrid guardian, no chance.

    Many specs are way better than soulbeast for 1v1, but it sounds like this is not about balance in fights but the fact that soulbeast may have a chance of dismounting someone, unlike those even more broken builds, so poeple come complain about soulbeast and not those others as they just walk past those.

    Sicc Em isn't even a mandatory inclusion as boonbeast doesn't even use it which shows it isn't undeniably OP, which is a way better build than regular soulbeast, but no one complains about that build, or these other duelist builds which are better than soulbeast for 1v1s, why? They don't shoot you off your mount, even though being a better duelist by miles.

    The only poeple that die to the glassbeast, which isn't a good build even(the balanced build with some survivability is a better duelist), are bad squishies that just try to run instead of fight. Heck, berserker arc divider burst still hits for twice as much as a rapid fire yet no one complains about that anymore after the nerf, because it doesn't shoot you off your mount.

    How do you lose against berserker?

    Warrior can still get close enough to even just do that - arc devider

    And soulbeast can still use dodge, block, blind, use one of his movement skills to avoid it, arc divider is so easy to see. And the ony "good" thing that berserker has. Especially that he has nothing when hes not in berserker.

    And a warrior doesn't have gap closers or ranged secondary weapon sets, condi cleanses, immobilizes, and unblockables? Gunflame and Decapitate make the second and third good things Berserkers have. Bloody Roar makes four.

    My point is all the ways you mentioned to counter a Berserker, a Berserker can counter play. Arc Divider is easy to see only because Berserk Mode has to precede it. What you may not see coming however, is Headbutt. The only thing saving you then is any passive invuln procs.

    TLDR; How do you lose to a Berserker? Be in melee range and get CC'd even once.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A class/spec can have a skill,trait or a single burst type that's OP and needs to be nerfed while retaining a semblance of balance throughout the rest of the class. The problem with sic em slb builds is the potential to do things that no class should be able to do. For example ur in wvw and see one of ur allies in a fight and from 1500 range merge,pop sic em and and either point blank shot followed by rapid or just use rapid and literally one out right kill opponent or atleast drop 90% of their health. They didnt dodge cuz they were focused on the fight or have used their dodges all while ur attack was unblockable and done without even joking the fight. Way too much reward for risk. I've used sic em alot in wvw and DE also and I can assure u as both are very trolly atleast DE is very clunky to use in comparison. I'd feel far more competent on a ranger if fight turned into a 1v1 though both are able to disengage easily. Stating that soulbeast builds arnt OP due to other aspects of the spec does not negate that sic em damage modifier is to high and not in line with other classes as any that existed were nerfed,look at guard RI. Also stating that the burst isn't useful in high AT's also doesnt mean that it's not OP on it's own.
    The fact that a skill can easily be made unblock able while achieving a 40% + damage through traits and and utility skills is enough for it to be considered op let alone at 1800 range. Its incredible it has lasted this long as it is.
    I've been running on my mount and got dismounted and downed in a single sic em burst as I have also done the same to others. I've never seen a single class do the same. U mention thief,I dont run DE and my sb sure as heck isn't dismounting anyone and if I port and try dismounting through melee I've got nothing left when the fight happens lol but usually mounted players can easily about being dismounted by a non DE thief by running forward lol.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

    from previous threads i have to assume what you call roaming is something completly different than what i call roaming. for me they were just a 0 risk fight that might take a little longer and still i saw maybe 1 boonbeast per 50 LB snipers. while the snipers are easier to kill, they at least could kill me in return too so it was still the more dangerous fight.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    A class/spec can have a skill,trait or a single burst type that's OP and needs to be nerfed while retaining a semblance of balance throughout the rest of the class. The problem with sic em slb builds is the potential to do things that no class should be able to do. For example ur in wvw and see one of ur allies in a fight and from 1500 range merge,pop sic em and and either point blank shot followed by rapid or just use rapid and literally one out right kill opponent or atleast drop 90% of their health. They didnt dodge cuz they were focused on the fight or have used their dodges all while ur attack was unblockable and done without even joking the fight. Way too much reward for risk. I've used sic em alot in wvw and DE also and I can assure u as both are very trolly atleast DE is very clunky to use in comparison. I'd feel far more competent on a ranger if fight turned into a 1v1 though both are able to disengage easily. Stating that soulbeast builds arnt OP due to other aspects of the spec does not negate that sic em damage modifier is to high and not in line with other classes as any that existed were nerfed,look at guard RI. Also stating that the burst isn't useful in high AT's also doesnt mean that it's not OP on it's own.
    The fact that a skill can easily be made unblock able while achieving a 40% + damage through traits and and utility skills is enough for it to be considered op let alone at 1800 range. Its incredible it has lasted this long as it is.
    I've been running on my mount and got dismounted and downed in a single sic em burst as I have also done the same to others. I've never seen a single class do the same. U mention thief,I dont run DE and my sb sure as heck isn't dismounting anyone and if I port and try dismounting through melee I've got nothing left when the fight happens lol but usually mounted players can easily about being dismounted by a non DE thief by running forward lol.

    Mesmers can confuse the kitten out of you with clones while condi-ing you down, what other class can do that?

    It isn't way too much reward for risk, the mount is zero risk all the reward already so having to use any cds just to dismount someone is already risk/downside. If you die through a rapid fire on a mount you deserve to die as you must be a full glass ele/thief or something with zero defensive stats/traits.

    If sicc em would be OP it means it would be used in every build, but it isn't, its an optional utility, not a mandatory one.

    Other classes can also down you in a single attack, just not from a mount, but why would i take the mount into consideration when the core game isn't balanced around them and when the mount is a zero risk all the reward feature anyways?

    Like wheres the oneshot DE complaints at? Or mesmers? Gone, because they can't do it through a mount.

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

    from previous threads i have to assume what you call roaming is something completly different than what i call roaming. for me they were just a 0 risk fight that might take a little longer and still i saw maybe 1 boonbeast per 50 LB snipers. while the snipers are easier to kill, they at least could kill me in return too so it was still the more dangerous fight.

    You play deadeye which can get away from anything, i never had trouble killing/catchging anything but a thief(both specs) on my boonbeast, or other bunker specs ofcoarse.

    Wheres the oneshot DE complaints at? Or mesmers? Gone, because they can't do it through a mount.

  • @Samug.6512 said:
    My main problem with soulbeast is, it's a ranged high-damage class with a ridiculous mobility. Either nerf the ranged damage capabilities or reduce the distance they can cover with two leaps.

    Avian pets didn't used to have Swoop on their F1. Although I forget what the skill was, it wasn't a leap. This meant if you were taking Soulbeast without Skirmishing you had lower mobility than core Ranger or you were forced to take Gazelle. During that time, I preferred to play core Ranger with Skirmishing over Soulbeast. Although SB had higher damage and better utility, in WvW it was somewhat slow and could be escaped or kited with help from Quickdraw (-66% recharge on next skill used after weapon swap). Then a few changes happened such as giving Dolyak Stance damage resistance, the Avian skill change, etc. and Soulbeast became a better choice. It's tradeoffs have been removed and in it's current state, it is flat out better than core in every way. Druid has a niche but, outside of support (which is poor in comparison to Firebrand or Scrapper) it again is worse than Soulbeast.

    There are numerous things that could use some adjusting with Soulbeast to bring it more in line with other professions, despite what some players believe about it's state. It's true it struggles to find validity in WvW, but the sheer volume of people playing the standard pew pew build makes it pretty obvious how powerful it is.

    💀 Necromancer | Diamond Legend 💎

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Samug.6512 said:
    My main problem with soulbeast is, it's a ranged high-damage class with a ridiculous mobility. Either nerf the ranged damage capabilities or reduce the distance they can cover with two leaps.

    Avian pets didn't used to have Swoop on their F1. Although I forget what the skill was, it wasn't a leap. This meant if you were taking Soulbeast without Skirmishing you had lower mobility than core Ranger or you were forced to take Gazelle. During that time, I preferred to play core Ranger with Skirmishing over Soulbeast. Although SB had higher damage and better utility, in WvW it was somewhat slow and could be escaped or kited with help from Quickdraw (-66% recharge on next skill used after weapon swap). Then a few changes happened such as giving Dolyak Stance damage resistance, the Avian skill change, etc. and Soulbeast became a better choice. It's tradeoffs have been removed and in it's current state, it is flat out better than core in every way. Druid has a niche but, outside of support (which is poor in comparison to Firebrand or Scrapper) it again is worse than Soulbeast.

    There are numerous things that could use some adjusting with Soulbeast to bring it more in line with other professions, despite what some players believe about it's state. It's true it struggles to find validity in WvW, but the sheer volume of people playing the standard pew pew build makes it pretty obvious how powerful it is.

    In line how? How is SB not in line with the likes of mesmers, berserkers, revs, holo's or thieves, disregarding the mount? Especially Holo, Mesmer and Rev should win vs an SB every time.

  • @Anput.4620 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Samug.6512 said:
    My main problem with soulbeast is, it's a ranged high-damage class with a ridiculous mobility. Either nerf the ranged damage capabilities or reduce the distance they can cover with two leaps.

    Avian pets didn't used to have Swoop on their F1. Although I forget what the skill was, it wasn't a leap. This meant if you were taking Soulbeast without Skirmishing you had lower mobility than core Ranger or you were forced to take Gazelle. During that time, I preferred to play core Ranger with Skirmishing over Soulbeast. Although SB had higher damage and better utility, in WvW it was somewhat slow and could be escaped or kited with help from Quickdraw (-66% recharge on next skill used after weapon swap). Then a few changes happened such as giving Dolyak Stance damage resistance, the Avian skill change, etc. and Soulbeast became a better choice. It's tradeoffs have been removed and in it's current state, it is flat out better than core in every way. Druid has a niche but, outside of support (which is poor in comparison to Firebrand or Scrapper) it again is worse than Soulbeast.

    There are numerous things that could use some adjusting with Soulbeast to bring it more in line with other professions, despite what some players believe about it's state. It's true it struggles to find validity in WvW, but the sheer volume of people playing the standard pew pew build makes it pretty obvious how powerful it is.

    In line how? How is SB not in line with the likes of mesmers, berserkers, holo's or thieves, disregarding the mount?

    I would really love to make a video showcasing the state of Soulbeast in WvW, but I think I've already gauged the extent of player logic for those that believe it's balanced. And no amount of evidence will change their minds about how weak they think it is.

    I am 100% convinced that everyone defending this are the players that die to Necro's and have no clue how to actually use their skills outside of the standard burst. I'm talking about the ones that practically let you close the gap on them and apparently think what they play is balanced because of that.

    Just because the majority of players can't use it to it's full potential doesn't mean that potential shouldn't be accounted for. I've seen more than a handful that are skilled enough to use it well and those players can 1vX with relative ease even on a full glass build. Although Soulbeast isn't the only thing that can win outnumbered fights in a fully offensive build, it's the ease of doing so that makes it so broken. There are very few crucial decisions or skillful plays needed to succeed with it. All it amounts to is spamming mobility skills off cooldown to stay at a comfortable range and punching holes through people without caring whether they're blocking, using damage mitigation, coming towards you, etc.

    💀 Necromancer | Diamond Legend 💎

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Samug.6512 said:
    My main problem with soulbeast is, it's a ranged high-damage class with a ridiculous mobility. Either nerf the ranged damage capabilities or reduce the distance they can cover with two leaps.

    Avian pets didn't used to have Swoop on their F1. Although I forget what the skill was, it wasn't a leap. This meant if you were taking Soulbeast without Skirmishing you had lower mobility than core Ranger or you were forced to take Gazelle. During that time, I preferred to play core Ranger with Skirmishing over Soulbeast. Although SB had higher damage and better utility, in WvW it was somewhat slow and could be escaped or kited with help from Quickdraw (-66% recharge on next skill used after weapon swap). Then a few changes happened such as giving Dolyak Stance damage resistance, the Avian skill change, etc. and Soulbeast became a better choice. It's tradeoffs have been removed and in it's current state, it is flat out better than core in every way. Druid has a niche but, outside of support (which is poor in comparison to Firebrand or Scrapper) it again is worse than Soulbeast.

    There are numerous things that could use some adjusting with Soulbeast to bring it more in line with other professions, despite what some players believe about it's state. It's true it struggles to find validity in WvW, but the sheer volume of people playing the standard pew pew build makes it pretty obvious how powerful it is.

    In line how? How is SB not in line with the likes of mesmers, berserkers, holo's or thieves, disregarding the mount?

    I would really love to make a video showcasing the state of Soulbeast in WvW, but I think I've already gauged the extent of player logic for those that believe it's balanced. And no amount of evidence will change their minds about how weak they think it is.

    I am 100% convinced that everyone defending this are the players that die to Necro's and have no clue how to actually use their skills outside of the standard burst. I'm talking about the ones that practically let you close the gap on them and apparently think what they play is balanced because of that.

    Just because the majority of players can't use it to it's full potential doesn't mean that potential shouldn't be accounted for. I've seen more than a handful that are skilled enough to use it well and those players can 1vX with relative ease even on a full glass build. Although Soulbeast isn't the only thing that can win outnumbered fights in a fully offensive build, it's the ease of doing so that makes it so broken. There are very few crucial decisions or skillful plays needed to succeed with it. All it amounts to is spamming mobility skills off cooldown to stay at a comfortable range and punching holes through people without caring whether they're blocking, using damage mitigation, coming towards you, etc.

    I am not saying it is bad, i am saying that all those other things are just as good, so SB is in line with other roaming builds, it's just that everything is broken. And i like it this way, as mounts in their current state are broken too which warrants current balance.

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

    from previous threads i have to assume what you call roaming is something completly different than what i call roaming. for me they were just a 0 risk fight that might take a little longer and still i saw maybe 1 boonbeast per 50 LB snipers. while the snipers are easier to kill, they at least could kill me in return too so it was still the more dangerous fight.

    You play deadeye which can get away from anything, i never had trouble killing/catchging anything but a thief(both specs) on my boonbeast, or other bunker specs ofcoarse.

    Wheres the oneshot DE complaints at? Or mesmers? Gone, because they can't do it through a mount.

    the condi mesmer got some nerfs around the time of the mount wich reduced their numbers significantly, sure there is still power mesmers but thats not braindead enough to have many people running it.
    similar with deadeye, with the mount patch the stealth time from silent scope did get reduced from 3 to 1 seconds. this doesnt have much effect outside of highly outnumbered fights and making oneshot deadeyes play a bit more defensive at times. but what it did is reduce the number of the only rather few deadeyes that were left after the mark changes.
    complains are usually an indicator of how much a build is played. sic em soulbeast provides now the best results for minimal effort after the nerfs to other mechanically easy builds. that has nothing to do with mounts.

    It has everything to do with mounts as oneshot DE is useless aslong as they are on a mount.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    A class can be under powered but have one op burst that carries it and bad players as good players wouldn't rely on it to begin with. Sisic em builds definitely are not as well rounded performance wise as boon beast not is it as good as boon beast in 1v1. That however doesn't change the fact 20 k at 1800+ range on top of being unblockable is not in line with most classes. The damage modifier needs to be dropped to 20 at least to be in line with other classes modifiers. This is nothing more than a cheese sic em player scared with all the attention that the OP cheese build has gotten that it will get nerfed and not be so unusable afterwards. It's easy to see. Real balance would be sic em reduced to 10% when used outa melee range and 20 in melee.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

    from previous threads i have to assume what you call roaming is something completly different than what i call roaming. for me they were just a 0 risk fight that might take a little longer and still i saw maybe 1 boonbeast per 50 LB snipers. while the snipers are easier to kill, they at least could kill me in return too so it was still the more dangerous fight.

    You play deadeye which can get away from anything, i never had trouble killing/catchging anything but a thief(both specs) on my boonbeast, or other bunker specs ofcoarse.

    Wheres the oneshot DE complaints at? Or mesmers? Gone, because they can't do it through a mount.

    the condi mesmer got some nerfs around the time of the mount wich reduced their numbers significantly, sure there is still power mesmers but thats not braindead enough to have many people running it.
    similar with deadeye, with the mount patch the stealth time from silent scope did get reduced from 3 to 1 seconds. this doesnt have much effect outside of highly outnumbered fights and making oneshot deadeyes play a bit more defensive at times. but what it did is reduce the number of the only rather few deadeyes that were left after the mark changes.
    complains are usually an indicator of how much a build is played. sic em soulbeast provides now the best results for minimal effort after the nerfs to other mechanically easy builds. that has nothing to do with mounts.

    It has everything to do with mounts as oneshot DE is useless aslong as they are on a mount.

    as long as who is on a mount? i can dismount people just fine with oneshot DE, but there usually is no need to.
    i play WvW. in WvW people on a mount do not contribute as long as they stay on the mount. they can not kill anything, they can not contest anything.
    i really cant understand why you try so hard to hunt mounts, when you could have a ton more fights if you were hunting players that do contribute. i feel like you hate the mount so much that you try to turn every topic you find here to blame the mount. i dont think there are enough players that focus only on ganking players on the road that it would affect this much what builds you run into, the ease of play is a much greater factor.

    Because i play for fun and not for some random rewards nobody cares about. Why should i care if they take their kitten camp? Like why does it matter?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    A class can be under powered but have one op burst that carries it and bad players as good players wouldn't rely on it to begin with. Sisic em builds definitely are not as well rounded performance wise as boon beast not is it as good as boon beast in 1v1. That however doesn't change the fact 20 k at 1800+ range on top of being unblockable is not in line with most classes. The damage modifier needs to be dropped to 20 at least to be in line with other classes modifiers. This is nothing more than a cheese sic em player scared with all the attention that the OP cheese build has gotten that it will get nerfed and not be so unusable afterwards. It's easy to see. Real balance would be sic em reduced to 10% when used outa melee range and 20 in melee.

    It is in line because it is the tradeoff of being defenseless once you do it, try this kitten on a mesmer, they will evade TP on you and you are dead. Other classes offer other things, and DE can still also oneshot without you seeing them still, poeple just don't complain because they can't get oneshot from their mount by a DE.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

    from previous threads i have to assume what you call roaming is something completly different than what i call roaming. for me they were just a 0 risk fight that might take a little longer and still i saw maybe 1 boonbeast per 50 LB snipers. while the snipers are easier to kill, they at least could kill me in return too so it was still the more dangerous fight.

    You play deadeye which can get away from anything, i never had trouble killing/catchging anything but a thief(both specs) on my boonbeast, or other bunker specs ofcoarse.

    Wheres the oneshot DE complaints at? Or mesmers? Gone, because they can't do it through a mount.

    the condi mesmer got some nerfs around the time of the mount wich reduced their numbers significantly, sure there is still power mesmers but thats not braindead enough to have many people running it.
    similar with deadeye, with the mount patch the stealth time from silent scope did get reduced from 3 to 1 seconds. this doesnt have much effect outside of highly outnumbered fights and making oneshot deadeyes play a bit more defensive at times. but what it did is reduce the number of the only rather few deadeyes that were left after the mark changes.
    complains are usually an indicator of how much a build is played. sic em soulbeast provides now the best results for minimal effort after the nerfs to other mechanically easy builds. that has nothing to do with mounts.

    It has everything to do with mounts as oneshot DE is useless aslong as they are on a mount.

    as long as who is on a mount? i can dismount people just fine with oneshot DE, but there usually is no need to.
    i play WvW. in WvW people on a mount do not contribute as long as they stay on the mount. they can not kill anything, they can not contest anything.
    i really cant understand why you try so hard to hunt mounts, when you could have a ton more fights if you were hunting players that do contribute. i feel like you hate the mount so much that you try to turn every topic you find here to blame the mount. i dont think there are enough players that focus only on ganking players on the road that it would affect this much what builds you run into, the ease of play is a much greater factor.

    Because i play for fun and not for some random rewards nobody cares about. Why should i care if they take their kitten camp? Like why does it matter?

    i play for fun too, who would have thought. i dont get a pay check for this :anguished:
    for reward i do play some PvE, because indeed the WvW ones are not good.
    it doesnt matter and it does matter alot if they take the camp. it doesnt really matter as the matches are very unbalanced and not competitive. however the moment they want the camp and you do not want them to take the camp, you will compete over the camp. thats still just a minor objective. you can also take/defend larger objectives, make sure something doesnt/does upgrade etc, whatever you do you will find someone that will compete for it. and often it will involve fighting the other person but not just for no sake. the game is not balanced for isolated 1 vs 1 so it would bore me too much to just fight some random dudes just to fight them. but if the fight happens in a little larger context of competing over something it gets much more interesting and you often then will fight the same person multiple times with them adjusting their approach not just kill and forget, they often change their builds and even profession for that.
    but hey maybe you just havent roamed enough to be bored of just killing random dudes for the sake of it yet.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    People have complained about 20k+ burst since it exists (and it shouldn't on a single skill). Soulbeast just happens to have the highest range, unblockable and some stupidly overtuned synergies on top of it. Mounts have nothing to do with this. You can just look for other threads. They existed before the mount. It's just additional stuff on top.

    Exactly, it's the fact that they can land said burst through a mount because of the range unlike other builds.

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

    from previous threads i have to assume what you call roaming is something completly different than what i call roaming. for me they were just a 0 risk fight that might take a little longer and still i saw maybe 1 boonbeast per 50 LB snipers. while the snipers are easier to kill, they at least could kill me in return too so it was still the more dangerous fight.

    You play deadeye which can get away from anything, i never had trouble killing/catchging anything but a thief(both specs) on my boonbeast, or other bunker specs ofcoarse.

    Wheres the oneshot DE complaints at? Or mesmers? Gone, because they can't do it through a mount.

    the condi mesmer got some nerfs around the time of the mount wich reduced their numbers significantly, sure there is still power mesmers but thats not braindead enough to have many people running it.
    similar with deadeye, with the mount patch the stealth time from silent scope did get reduced from 3 to 1 seconds. this doesnt have much effect outside of highly outnumbered fights and making oneshot deadeyes play a bit more defensive at times. but what it did is reduce the number of the only rather few deadeyes that were left after the mark changes.
    complains are usually an indicator of how much a build is played. sic em soulbeast provides now the best results for minimal effort after the nerfs to other mechanically easy builds. that has nothing to do with mounts.

    It has everything to do with mounts as oneshot DE is useless aslong as they are on a mount.

    as long as who is on a mount? i can dismount people just fine with oneshot DE, but there usually is no need to.
    i play WvW. in WvW people on a mount do not contribute as long as they stay on the mount. they can not kill anything, they can not contest anything.
    i really cant understand why you try so hard to hunt mounts, when you could have a ton more fights if you were hunting players that do contribute. i feel like you hate the mount so much that you try to turn every topic you find here to blame the mount. i dont think there are enough players that focus only on ganking players on the road that it would affect this much what builds you run into, the ease of play is a much greater factor.

    Because i play for fun and not for some random rewards nobody cares about. Why should i care if they take their kitten camp? Like why does it matter?

    i play for fun too, who would have thought. i dont get a pay check for this :anguished:
    for reward i do play some PvE, because indeed the WvW ones are not good.
    it doesnt matter and it does matter alot if they take the camp. it doesnt really matter as the matches are very unbalanced and not competitive. however the moment they want the camp and you do not want them to take the camp, you will compete over the camp. thats still just a minor objective. you can also take/defend larger objectives, make sure something doesnt/does upgrade etc, whatever you do you will find someone that will compete for it. and often it will involve fighting the other person but not just for no sake. the game is not balanced for isolated 1 vs 1 so it would bore me too much to just fight some random dudes just to fight them. but if the fight happens in a little larger context of competing over something it gets much more interesting and you often then will fight the same person multiple times with them adjusting their approach not just kill and forget, they often change their builds and even profession for that.
    but hey maybe you just havent roamed enough to be bored of just killing random dudes for the sake of it yet.

    Ehh, their form of competition is "take something else where i am not at instead", not fight over stuff, unless they got a group ofcoarse. Fighting is for no sake how? It is fun and what the mode is about, it also does grant warscore.

    I am not bored of killing randoms, i AM bored because lack of being able to kill randoms.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    People have complained about 20k+ burst since it exists (and it shouldn't on a single skill). Soulbeast just happens to have the highest range, unblockable and some stupidly overtuned synergies on top of it. Mounts have nothing to do with this. You can just look for other threads. They existed before the mount. It's just additional stuff on top.

    Exactly, it's the fact that they can land said burst through a mount because of the range unlike other builds.

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

    from previous threads i have to assume what you call roaming is something completly different than what i call roaming. for me they were just a 0 risk fight that might take a little longer and still i saw maybe 1 boonbeast per 50 LB snipers. while the snipers are easier to kill, they at least could kill me in return too so it was still the more dangerous fight.

    You play deadeye which can get away from anything, i never had trouble killing/catchging anything but a thief(both specs) on my boonbeast, or other bunker specs ofcoarse.

    Wheres the oneshot DE complaints at? Or mesmers? Gone, because they can't do it through a mount.

    the condi mesmer got some nerfs around the time of the mount wich reduced their numbers significantly, sure there is still power mesmers but thats not braindead enough to have many people running it.
    similar with deadeye, with the mount patch the stealth time from silent scope did get reduced from 3 to 1 seconds. this doesnt have much effect outside of highly outnumbered fights and making oneshot deadeyes play a bit more defensive at times. but what it did is reduce the number of the only rather few deadeyes that were left after the mark changes.
    complains are usually an indicator of how much a build is played. sic em soulbeast provides now the best results for minimal effort after the nerfs to other mechanically easy builds. that has nothing to do with mounts.

    It has everything to do with mounts as oneshot DE is useless aslong as they are on a mount.

    as long as who is on a mount? i can dismount people just fine with oneshot DE, but there usually is no need to.
    i play WvW. in WvW people on a mount do not contribute as long as they stay on the mount. they can not kill anything, they can not contest anything.
    i really cant understand why you try so hard to hunt mounts, when you could have a ton more fights if you were hunting players that do contribute. i feel like you hate the mount so much that you try to turn every topic you find here to blame the mount. i dont think there are enough players that focus only on ganking players on the road that it would affect this much what builds you run into, the ease of play is a much greater factor.

    Because i play for fun and not for some random rewards nobody cares about. Why should i care if they take their kitten camp? Like why does it matter?

    i play for fun too, who would have thought. i dont get a pay check for this :anguished:
    for reward i do play some PvE, because indeed the WvW ones are not good.
    it doesnt matter and it does matter alot if they take the camp. it doesnt really matter as the matches are very unbalanced and not competitive. however the moment they want the camp and you do not want them to take the camp, you will compete over the camp. thats still just a minor objective. you can also take/defend larger objectives, make sure something doesnt/does upgrade etc, whatever you do you will find someone that will compete for it. and often it will involve fighting the other person but not just for no sake. the game is not balanced for isolated 1 vs 1 so it would bore me too much to just fight some random dudes just to fight them. but if the fight happens in a little larger context of competing over something it gets much more interesting and you often then will fight the same person multiple times with them adjusting their approach not just kill and forget, they often change their builds and even profession for that.
    but hey maybe you just havent roamed enough to be bored of just killing random dudes for the sake of it yet.

    Ehh, their form of competition is "take something else where i am not at instead", not fight over stuff, unless they got a group ofcoarse. Fighting is for no sake how? It is fun and what the mode is about, it also does grant warscore.

    I am not bored of killing randoms, i AM bored because lack of being able to kill randoms.

    Lmao people are not complaining about the range of the slb siccem burst because it can dismount them from range,that's minor. Their complaint is about the high burst, unlockable and crazy range at which slb can damage a player regardless if mounted or not. Slb isn't broken but sic em is and even more so when combined with unstoppable union. Mount is inconsequential.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    People have complained about 20k+ burst since it exists (and it shouldn't on a single skill). Soulbeast just happens to have the highest range, unblockable and some stupidly overtuned synergies on top of it. Mounts have nothing to do with this. You can just look for other threads. They existed before the mount. It's just additional stuff on top.

    Exactly, it's the fact that they can land said burst through a mount because of the range unlike other builds.

    No, that's not what I said but thanks for putting your own words into my mouth. You ignored everything else that was said in the entire thread just to harp on that single point that yes, it is annoying, but not the problem itself. You pretend as if you're correct because if the burst will be addressed that had to be because of the mount... that's silly.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    wich profession is better in an isolated 1 vs 1 doesnt matter in roaming, as most fights in roaming are not isolated. boonbeast is trash compared to sic em ranger for roaming. it might be better in a limited space 1 vs 1, but else it will just be kited and/or ignored. and thats basically for all the tankier builds, they cannot force a fight, they cannot finish a fight against a target that doesnt want to, while they still can be bursted down by some burst and run builds if they dont react fast enough or have everything ready, such a situation can easily be made.

    Boonbeast has enough damage and mobility to finish fights, the only thing holding them back now is mounts.

    if you think so, guess thats why even before the mounts they were pretty much non existent in WvW roaming.

    They really weren't, boonbeast has 2 dashes too, and often sits in snow owl while soulbeast has to go out of smokescale and wait 10 seconds before they have 2 dashes. I mainly played boonbeast pre-mount and i can tell you it's way better.

    from previous threads i have to assume what you call roaming is something completly different than what i call roaming. for me they were just a 0 risk fight that might take a little longer and still i saw maybe 1 boonbeast per 50 LB snipers. while the snipers are easier to kill, they at least could kill me in return too so it was still the more dangerous fight.

    You play deadeye which can get away from anything, i never had trouble killing/catchging anything but a thief(both specs) on my boonbeast, or other bunker specs ofcoarse.

    Wheres the oneshot DE complaints at? Or mesmers? Gone, because they can't do it through a mount.

    the condi mesmer got some nerfs around the time of the mount wich reduced their numbers significantly, sure there is still power mesmers but thats not braindead enough to have many people running it.
    similar with deadeye, with the mount patch the stealth time from silent scope did get reduced from 3 to 1 seconds. this doesnt have much effect outside of highly outnumbered fights and making oneshot deadeyes play a bit more defensive at times. but what it did is reduce the number of the only rather few deadeyes that were left after the mark changes.
    complains are usually an indicator of how much a build is played. sic em soulbeast provides now the best results for minimal effort after the nerfs to other mechanically easy builds. that has nothing to do with mounts.

    It has everything to do with mounts as oneshot DE is useless aslong as they are on a mount.

    as long as who is on a mount? i can dismount people just fine with oneshot DE, but there usually is no need to.
    i play WvW. in WvW people on a mount do not contribute as long as they stay on the mount. they can not kill anything, they can not contest anything.
    i really cant understand why you try so hard to hunt mounts, when you could have a ton more fights if you were hunting players that do contribute. i feel like you hate the mount so much that you try to turn every topic you find here to blame the mount. i dont think there are enough players that focus only on ganking players on the road that it would affect this much what builds you run into, the ease of play is a much greater factor.

    Because i play for fun and not for some random rewards nobody cares about. Why should i care if they take their kitten camp? Like why does it matter?

    i play for fun too, who would have thought. i dont get a pay check for this :anguished:
    for reward i do play some PvE, because indeed the WvW ones are not good.
    it doesnt matter and it does matter alot if they take the camp. it doesnt really matter as the matches are very unbalanced and not competitive. however the moment they want the camp and you do not want them to take the camp, you will compete over the camp. thats still just a minor objective. you can also take/defend larger objectives, make sure something doesnt/does upgrade etc, whatever you do you will find someone that will compete for it. and often it will involve fighting the other person but not just for no sake. the game is not balanced for isolated 1 vs 1 so it would bore me too much to just fight some random dudes just to fight them. but if the fight happens in a little larger context of competing over something it gets much more interesting and you often then will fight the same person multiple times with them adjusting their approach not just kill and forget, they often change their builds and even profession for that.
    but hey maybe you just havent roamed enough to be bored of just killing random dudes for the sake of it yet.

    Ehh, their form of competition is "take something else where i am not at instead", not fight over stuff, unless they got a group ofcoarse. Fighting is for no sake how? It is fun and what the mode is about, it also does grant warscore.

    then make sure there is no 'where you are not'. predict their next move and be there before them.
    there is no reason to fight for only warscore sake if you dont know that you will win beforehand, in wich case it not fun enough for me to make it my main objective.

    and with that view the only reason for me to play my rangers is when i just want some braindead fights, no brain required to win and the ones i lose i probably wouldnt have been able to win if i did try as the build is rather weak. but if i want to roam, then soulbeast wont even come close to what a deadeye still can. for me the mount doesnt make soulbeast stronger or a preferred choice, rather weaker as it will often lose the initial range advantage when getting attacked by someone mounted.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

  • @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

    Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

    Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

    Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

    Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

    The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

    Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

    Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

    Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

    This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

    Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

    Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

    The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

    Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

    Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

    Ranger can use gs and owl to easily stay out of ange of most classes. That set up had even kept up with my thief enough to keep pew pewing me to death while trying to run away.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2019

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

    Maybe I can help. If a rev burst u and u either die to it,live through it with dps taken or avoided it with dodge,sustain skills etc where does that put the rev? Puts it in melee range with low energy and skill on CD. Ranger does its crazy high unlockable burst wheres that leave ranger? Still at 1800 range in safety. Huge difference. Make revs hammer drop hit consecutive times at 1800 range with a 40% dps modifier and I'd be broken as well lol before u say revs a might boon monster so its different it really isn't hassle gets more than enough dps modifiers and boons ontop of sic em. Revs burst was definitely OP but it's all it had and it got deserved nerfs,power slb can be built far more ways than power rev

    This doesnt make sense. How did you get into melee range against a rev, but not into melee range against a soulbeast?

    If a rev does its s/s burst as I'm assuming that's the burst ur talking about that puts the rev in melee range at end of burst. Slb burst is done at 1800 range with ranger still being at said range. Slb burst doesnt end with it next to the opponent like revs does. High reward with zero risk. That doesnt make sense? Most agree that range attacks should have less burst or dps potential than melee do to way less risk, especially when it's the only class that can dps from that range. Yet slb range burst has zero risk or drawbacks with unblockable on top just to make sure it's that extra kind of op lol

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @iKeostuKen.2738 said:
    Not really understanding why it's not fair for a ranger to build into its single target damage and for the burst to be beatable by 8/9 classes in the game while you have classes like Berserker and Power Rev who are capable of even higher damage against multiple targets with less visible effects to dodge.

    Range versus Melee. Melee range requires more risks and gap closers to land the burst while ranged combat requires less risk and can land burst from 0 range to 1800 range. This is why melee dps tends to be higher in almost every game, single target or AOE, than range dps. Hammer power rev needs retuning just like the soulbeast though.

    Usually that would be correct, but gw2 completely tossed logical balance designs out the window a long long time ago and arent going back.

    The risk of range is reflects and poor map geometry.

    Risk of something like a melee warrior is... well nothing aside from heavy condition pressure and boon corrupts.

    Theyve given melee classes the ability to gap close like juggernauts so staying in range with a soulbeast isnt a difficult task.

    Well... No. A warrior unless using sword mainhand doesn't have that many good gapclosers outside of rampage elite which has a long CD. They do however have really, really good sustain and dmg mitigation.

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