Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP

2456713

Comments

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Serenity.6304 said:

    @romano.8170 said:
    Good!
    Now revert scourge pvp changes.

    This would be amazing, since scourge is basically deleted from pvp. They even get nerfed more in WvW, lol

    please do not bring back the fake IP for scourge

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @darksome.1697 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Holosmith
    Holosmith quickness has been a big point of feedback and we’re planning to make some adjustments there. Removing Sigil of Agility was part of this, and we’re also looking at a minor nerf to Kinetic Battery.

    This leaves Elixir U. We’re considering a quickness reduction here as well, but are currently leaning toward an interesting change that’s worth discussing. That change being a heavy reduction of the stability granted. The goal of this change is to leave U as the big quickness skill, but also open the door for more counterplay. This would give opportunity to avoid Corona Burst and then CC the holosmith instead of just getting run over by quickness.

    • Kinetic Battery: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Elixir U: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 1 second in PvP only

    Rampage
    Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.

    • Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows
      • Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

    I'm sorry, but are you really still working at eradicating engineers from PvP? Elixir U is the only usable stability there is for a drunken scrapper (which actually lets you still use skills while it's up), which you forced engineers into with the reduction to paper thin nothings two balance patches ago. Rampage is the ONLY mildly usable elite that a drunken scrapper has, and on top of that it is triggered randomly and therefor completely unreliable - you usually get twister mode which is as useful as a paper bag. And that's supposed to be an elite. Rampage isn't a "win button" either, you're not invulnerable while rampaging, and most classes know how to counter it. It's super easy to counter it even. So bringing that elite... "Elite" randomly triggered skill to 0.01 is just... dumb. And Holosmiths, I used to play one before being forced into drunken scrapper. Sure the class can be annoying, but they're no brutes either these days, not like they were two balance patches ago - and even then, if you know what you're doing, they're not hard to counter either, just annoying. I just can't believe you're going after engineers again. Again. Good grief.

    I really dislike holosmiths, but I'm with them here (mostly). Quickness - yeah, hit it. Rampage - definitely. But leave their stab alone. Unless you're accompanying these changes with sweeping other changes to CC across the board - which it doesn't seem like you are - this is too far.

    Holo was an issue of multiple things combined. If you nerf one (quickness), you don't need to - SHOULDN'T - touch the other, especially to such a degree.

    The RNG of holo's elite elixir is another story alltogether ofc and I don't even want to go near that.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    Still no mention of Renegade lol?

    Best gaming meme 2010’s, never forget.

  • Introducing counterplay to fast hitting builds like holosmith by increasing retaliation damage on tankier specs this is what stops engineer from using grenades in zergs. Also might want to look at stunlocking the quickness enhanced player by changing shocking aura to provide successively longer stun times if recently stunned by shocking aura. This might introduce a higher skill ceiling in play as canceling skills will be more useful. Thank you for trying to bring these builds back into baseline. As you also look at these long overdue nerfs, if you are going to nerf damage, please nerf in small but frequent increments instead of in how the flow the build works. I would much rather do 5% less damage than have my cooldowns messed with to make the build monotonal. I have seen this happen to elementalist.
    Thank You

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    Good nerfs especially for mirage
    Not like double clone production is needed (and was buffed to this in the past) and neither is cheesy 12+ sec bleeds and torment - we all use expertise amulet now anyway.

    Also different holo builds will be more viable - some didnt use kb and elixir u to begin with

  • SoulSin.5682SoulSin.5682 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @foste.3098 said:

    @SoulSin.5682 said:
    Seems good.
    You could also remove the dodge frames from Vault. Its already a very strong leap with damage and AoE, it never needed the dodge frames.

    Absolutely not! Vault was never an issue at all for the last 4+ years and it was not the issue in the staff/staff setup that won the last at.
    This suggestion is akin to saying warrior gs 3 could stand to have its evade frames removed because it is a fine skill that moves you a distance and is a whirl finisher; or ele dagger 3 in fire could stand to lose evasion frames because it is a fine skill without it.

    The problem is indeed, not with a vault.
    The problem is how a staff thief connects one dodge to another and never stop.

    I am fine with thieves spamming Dodge + Debilitating Arc if they need to get more defensive, plus they still have blind with Dust Strike. There is no need for Vault to be a dodge as well.
    The thief must decide between playing more offensive or more defensive. Vault is an offensive skill, there is no need to have dodge frames.

    @reikken.4961 said:
    How about making this trait only apply when swapping to a different weapon set?

    ---------------------------------------------------- [...]------------------------------------------------------------

    If the goal is making it more grindy rather than bursty, I'd think reducing the maximum number of spider venom stacks would be better. Also gives people more time to counter by throwing out their cleanses. After 4-5 seconds (3 seconds + extra poison duration) you've usually already cleansed it anyway, if you haven't already died to a few seconds of 18 stacks of poison or whatever. Plus it would nerf the burst without impacting builds that use the shadow arts trait to repeatedly stack spider venom and apply it to wear people down over time.

    >

    I can get behind those two suggestions. Tough I would reduce the cooldown of venons if they get less stacks.
    Or perhaps adding charges with long cooldowns?

    Also + 1 for the quickpocket idea.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    So you want the ONLY viable builds from the Warrior Tactics line to be support builds. . . Why even have warrior's cunning if you're making this change? People who want damage will just go back to Strength, Arms, or Discipline. Way to make an interesting and niche trait boring.

  • whooaaa…
    some huge nerfs. some thoughts:

    elixir u - so I think this is fine. its holo's quickness, vigor, and sustain thats the problem.
    rampage - definitely needed a huge nerf but this might be overkill. I think a blanket damage reduction is a better way to go since a full might stacked warrior will still kill anyone with one auto attack chain.
    warriors cunning - another overkill imo. maybe both do a little more then what you have listed? the 50% boost is the main culprit here.
    quick pockets - might as well change this to something else. no one will use it.
    staff thief - reduce weakness uptime and lower some coefficients. doesn't need huge nerfs.

    all classes - remove all + endurance traits, nerf might stacks, lower damage modifier traits for pvp/ wvw, nerf quickness/ vigor/ protection. nerf fury a little bit.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Condi Mirage
    We understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Phantasmal Warlock:

      • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
      • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
    • Chaos Vortex:

      • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
      • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
      • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

    Actually I'm happy that the double clone production on staff and scepter is back to normal, it was already one of my suggestions because it make a gap with other weapons in regards to mesmer main mecanic (shatter).
    Even if it mean a high nerf both for shatter damage and to F4 survival.
    However don't miss to scale the direct damage of phantasmal warlock, not only the vulnerability aspect please.

    About chaos vortex nerf, every good player know how to manage this line telegraphied ambush with high cast animation.
    That said I see 2 problems with this :
    1) condimirage will continue to not use his ambush offensively but only defensively like now which will don't change the pressure by clone auto gameplay at all.
    2) Mirage can't really play a shatter gameplay because other GM apart IH are trash and condi core is better when playing shatter condimes. So he can only play ambush/clone gameplay with IH and with ambush having little impact in condi, core will gain more interests and powermirage who can use his ambush offensively and defensively will be more interesting.

    That said I didn't care about this change because for me powermirage is already at the same efficiency level.
    Note that if staff as an utility weapon = only a kite weapon who didn't do something other than teleport back, it seems limited.

  • birdboy.6509birdboy.6509 Member ✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    I think most of these changes are good, serpents touch is iffy as it affects every thief build, not just the overperforming ones but it doesn't make that big of a difference.
    My only contention is
    Warrior’s Cunning
    We’re making an adjustment to bring Warrior’s Cunning more in-line with other damage traits.
    Warrior's Cunning: Reduced damage bonus against targets above 90% health from 25% to 7% in PvP only. Reduced damage bonus against targets with barrier from 50% to 10% in PvP only.

    I think this is overkill, and core warrior will vanish back to obscurity after these changes. I think it was a really cool idea to have a class that countered barrier spam unkillable side noders like weaver or prot holo, as they are generally pretty unfun to play against. While this trait was definitely overtuned and broken it would be nice if core warrior still had a niche in the meta. (which it wont if these changes happen, especially with rampage nerfs)
    Maybe make it 15% for targets above 90% and 25% more to barrier?
    Something else that's broken and I think deserves a nerf is the menders symbol spam firebrand that has been running around crazy in ranked, unranked, and AT's as well.
    Just the other day I played against a triple firebrand double prot holo comp in finals. Symbolbrand is equally cancerous and overpowered as the aforementioned-soon-to-be-nerfed classes. Please nerf them too, as tools holo and condi mes were the only classes keeping them in check, and without them the balance will be thrown off.

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    General

    • Sigil of Agility has been removed from the PvP build panel

    Seems fair enough.

    Condi Thief
    The main issue we’re looking to address with condi thief is the initial burst potential. Long term there are definitely questions about how this build is applying conditions, but for now we want to push it more toward a grindy build than a bursty one.

    • Spider Venom: Reduced poison duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Serpent's Touch: Reduced poison stacks from 2 to 1 in PvP only

    Not sure this'll solve the problems, but it's an appreciated start.
    >

    Holosmith
    Holosmith quickness has been a big point of feedback and we’re planning to make some adjustments there. Removing Sigil of Agility was part of this, and we’re also looking at a minor nerf to Kinetic Battery.

    This leaves Elixir U. We’re considering a quickness reduction here as well, but are currently leaning toward an interesting change that’s worth discussing. That change being a heavy reduction of the stability granted. The goal of this change is to leave U as the big quickness skill, but also open the door for more counterplay. This would give opportunity to avoid Corona Burst and then CC the holosmith instead of just getting run over by quickness.

    • Kinetic Battery: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Elixir U: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 1 second in PvP only

    Core engi and scrapper are already having trouble remaining competitive so, rather than nerf core skills and traits, couldn't you just tune down some numbers on holo instead? People have been calling for shaves to sustain (Heat Therapy) and DPS pretty much since holo was introduced and, while there were some adjustments, more work could probably be done here.

    Condi Mirage
    We understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Phantasmal Warlock:

      • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
      • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
    • Chaos Vortex:

      • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
      • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
      • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

    >
    Glad to see that there are plans for a Mirage Cloak rework (it probably is the main offender here on this spec), but these changes should help in the meantime.
    >

    Rampage
    Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.

    • Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows
      • Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

    >
    I mean, kitten, this is kinda' gutting most of Rampage's damage potential, but I guess it's still got...something going for it? Again, the skill needs to be toned down, but this might be a bit much.

    I also worry that using the Rampage changes to gauge other future potential changes for bloated skills (e.g., Bull's Charge, Executioner's Scythe, etc.) might be a bit of a disanalogy, given everything else that the elite does. Don't get me wrong: bloat needs to be reduced, but not at the full cost of a skill's functionality.
    >

    Warrior’s Cunning
    We’re making an adjustment to bring Warrior’s Cunning more in-line with other damage traits.

    • Warrior's Cunning: Reduced damage bonus against targets above 90% health from 25% to 7% in PvP only. Reduced damage bonus against targets with barrier from 50% to 10% in PvP only.

    This is interesting and, while I'm open to the change, I wonder if this won't re-cement Tactics as a PvE-only line again (but maybe folks are okay with that?).
    >

    Staff Thief
    As mentioned the other day, we want to revisit the recent change to Debilitating Arc for the next balance update. There are still concerns about putting it back to 4 initiative, but it doesn’t really make sense for it to coexist with Vault at 6. We’re reducing the cost to 5 while making some minor adjustments to Quick Pockets and Staff Master.

    • Quick Pockets: Reduced initiative gained on weapon swap from 3 to 2 in PvP only
    • Staff Master: Reduced endurance gain per initiative spent from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Debilitating Arc: Reduced initiative cost from 6 to 5 in PvP only

    Like notes on condi thief: it's a welcome start.

    As bluberblasen noted, hopefully you're looking at implementing some (all?) such changes for WvW as well.

  • Jojo.6590Jojo.6590 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    Wow, these changes came out fast and are really spot on (would be nice to see these changes applied to WvW too) :)!

    Just an idea for Mirage and Chrono. Removing distortion and illusionary persona (LP) was too much, just taking away the former would have been fine as Chrono's clone generation/ up time really isn't that high (at least compared to Mirage). However these changes done to Chrono could actually (I know this is going to get some backlash) balance out Mirage really well with how the specialization functions. Mirage does not need distortion as it has Mirage cloak (a fancy distortion) on top of this Mirage also has really good (maybe even considerably high) clone generation and up time. I would not be surprised if removing LP and distortion brought Mirage inline, of course this is no minor change and would also require changes to a few traits and maybe even a new unique shatter for Mirage to replace distortion (at least one could hope ;) ).
    All in all these "minor" changes are spot on and the speed at witch you and your team did this is amazing! A big THANK YOU is definitely in order :)

    (Edit grammar)

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    The 1 second of stability on Elixir U is too short. The 6 seconds is too much because the boon duration from leadership runes + alchemy pushes that to 10 seconds. I think the bigger issue is Corona Burst requiring 2 defensive skills to avoid. Moving both procs of stability to the initial hit and reducing the stability duration on Elixir U to 3 seconds would make more sense.

    Also, please increase the cooldown of Elixir U to 45 or 50 seconds (36 vs 40s traited). It is literally a straight upgrade in every way compared to a ranger's Quickening Zephyr (which has a base 45s cd so I think Elixir U being increased to 50s would be fair) and it has a lower cooldown to boot.

    I'm a little bummed about the Sigil of Agility change but it's probably healthy for the gamemode. The rest of it looks fine imo, especially regarding Rampage. Rampage will still hit hard (2-4k on crits) post-nerf but the skills shouldn't be able to one shot anymore. Nice job, you guys came up with relatively on-point changes pretty quickly. Keep up the good work.

    OH SHOOT

    You guys missed a HUGE one! PLEASE nerf the double proc reveal from Lock On. Keep the cc proc and remove the on-hit proc. This trait is hyper busted! 12 seconds of reveal + fury + 20 stacks of vulnerability every 25 seconds is completely insane. The cooldown should also be increased to 30 seconds with the single reveal proc.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    Umm...

    Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

    Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    even if thief gets nerfed mOaR, keep chopping all of us down.

    blow away powercreep and cheap cheap

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • Please give me CI back. As some of mirage players said before, the problem is not CI, the problem is the way condi mirage do damage. Anet killed a high-skilled (focus on interrupting skill) build....
    Can't you understand that interrupt is not as easy as you think, and that -5s is a piece of kitten.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    hey cal, you're doing work, Ive pretty much quit gw2 but I've been lurking and try out new balance passes, praying that you guys bring some good stuff back to the game, Ima go run some pvp right now cause y'all are hyping me up with the direction and communication!

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Umm...

    Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

    Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

    Because now condimirage use sword :D.
    18 stacks of bleeding on a skill with a CD and a 2 time animation (phantasm cast + phantasm attack) is more than fine btw.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @TAIKA.1903 said:
    Please give me CI back. As some of mirage players said before, the problem is not CI, the problem is the way condi mirage do damage. Anet killed a high-skilled (focus on interrupting skill) build....
    Can't you understand that interrupt is not as easy as you think, and that -5s is a piece of kitten.

    Old CI was an instant lock down together with Mantra of Distraction, that never can be balanced also not on Power builds no matter that it barely got used with Power. Even without an instant interrupt tool the lock down combination from immob+daze/stun/ whatever is worse than the hardest cc in the game because you need a stunbreak and a condi remove to counter that. The immob needed to go in any case. But instead this new rng trait they could have just replaced the immob with another utility condition like Chill.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi Everyone,

    We’ve done some work on the next balance update and wanted to share some of the potential changes for discussion and feedback. As a reminder, this update is intended to be smaller but more targeted to address major issues within the game mode as we work toward some major changes in a future update. This is also not the full list of changes for the update, just the ones targeted at PvP.

    The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

    In particular we’re looking at:

    • Condi Thief
    • Holosmith
    • Condi Mirage
    • Rampage
    • Warrior’s Cunning
    • Revisiting Staff Thief

    General

    • Sigil of Agility has been removed from the PvP build panel

    This came up again as we were looking at holosmith quickness but is something we’ve been considering for a long time. Quickness in general is something that we’re looking at for the future update, but in the short-term we feel that this sigil is too easily accessible for the power it provides.

    Condi Thief
    The main issue we’re looking to address with condi thief is the initial burst potential. Long term there are definitely questions about how this build is applying conditions, but for now we want to push it more toward a grindy build than a bursty one.

    • Spider Venom: Reduced poison duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Serpent's Touch: Reduced poison stacks from 2 to 1 in PvP only

    Holosmith
    Holosmith quickness has been a big point of feedback and we’re planning to make some adjustments there. Removing Sigil of Agility was part of this, and we’re also looking at a minor nerf to Kinetic Battery.

    This leaves Elixir U. We’re considering a quickness reduction here as well, but are currently leaning toward an interesting change that’s worth discussing. That change being a heavy reduction of the stability granted. The goal of this change is to leave U as the big quickness skill, but also open the door for more counterplay. This would give opportunity to avoid Corona Burst and then CC the holosmith instead of just getting run over by quickness.

    • Kinetic Battery: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Elixir U: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 1 second in PvP only

    Condi Mirage
    We understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Phantasmal Warlock:

      • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
      • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
    • Chaos Vortex:

      • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
      • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
      • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

    Rampage
    Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.

    • Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows
      • Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

    Warrior’s Cunning
    We’re making an adjustment to bring Warrior’s Cunning more in-line with other damage traits.

    • Warrior's Cunning: Reduced damage bonus against targets above 90% health from 25% to 7% in PvP only. Reduced damage bonus against targets with barrier from 50% to 10% in PvP only.

    Staff Thief
    As mentioned the other day, we want to revisit the recent change to Debilitating Arc for the next balance update. There are still concerns about putting it back to 4 initiative, but it doesn’t really make sense for it to coexist with Vault at 6. We’re reducing the cost to 5 while making some minor adjustments to Quick Pockets and Staff Master.

    • Quick Pockets: Reduced initiative gained on weapon swap from 3 to 2 in PvP only
    • Staff Master: Reduced endurance gain per initiative spent from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Debilitating Arc: Reduced initiative cost from 6 to 5 in PvP only

    Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

    -The Systems Team

    ...Did you guys test these changes and make sure you didn't completely kill a build, ability, or weapon?

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • TAIKA.1903TAIKA.1903 Member ✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @TAIKA.1903 said:
    Please give me CI back. As some of mirage players said before, the problem is not CI, the problem is the way condi mirage do damage. Anet killed a high-skilled (focus on interrupting skill) build....
    Can't you understand that interrupt is not as easy as you think, and that -5s is a piece of kitten.

    Old CI was an instant lock down together with Mantra of Distraction, that never can be balanced also not on Power builds no matter that it barely got used with Power. Even without an instant interrupt tool the lock down combination from immob+daze/stun/ whatever is worse than the hardest cc in the game because you need a stunbreak and a condi remove to counter that. The immob needed to go in any case. But instead this new rng trait they could have just replaced the immob with another utility condition like Chill.

    ok, I agree what you said....

    But as we can see, Anet remove everything and give mersmer a such useless skill, kitten....

    Did they test that by themself? Did they think it is useful or skillful?

    All they do is nerf everything and make everyone playing IH-based build... sigh

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @TAIKA.1903 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @TAIKA.1903 said:
    Please give me CI back. As some of mirage players said before, the problem is not CI, the problem is the way condi mirage do damage. Anet killed a high-skilled (focus on interrupting skill) build....
    Can't you understand that interrupt is not as easy as you think, and that -5s is a piece of kitten.

    Old CI was an instant lock down together with Mantra of Distraction, that never can be balanced also not on Power builds no matter that it barely got used with Power. Even without an instant interrupt tool the lock down combination from immob+daze/stun/ whatever is worse than the hardest cc in the game because you need a stunbreak and a condi remove to counter that. The immob needed to go in any case. But instead this new rng trait they could have just replaced the immob with another utility condition like Chill.

    ok, I agree what you said....

    But as we can see, Anet remove everything and give mersmer a such useless skill, kitten....

    Did they test that by themself? Did they think it is useful or skillful?

    It doesn't feel like they are testing that much but i am not sure (see build template fiesta) and Anet has a weird way of just nerfing or reworking stuff into uselessness or clunkyness. Look what they did to EM, instead just reworking it into something not broken but useful, they prefered to keep the broken stunebreak on dodge mechanic and just nerf it to death so it doesn't get used. It would be more honest to delete the trait completely and tell Mesmer players that they only have 2 grandmasters now, because that is how it is in facts. Other example is deleting the instant nature from Blinding Powder for no reason. Or the Chrono trade off. I can't even say at what point the balance changes were so far away from what makes the game more skillbased, instead delete gamplay flow to calm down masses with barely any game- and class knowledge. Even though there was a lot to improve in the very rare balance changes but they never were so senseless and destroyed gameplay flow before it started with the trade off stuff/ Blinding Powder... (ok not 100% true, deleting shorter leaps and such stuff dumbed down the game for no reason already...)

    But at least they are trying now you know? They communicate and it looks like balance patches more often and maybe even hotfixes from most broken stuff are possible. That is a big step forward in general. Before it felt like they are about to close PvP but are just too afraid to tell us xD I hope that the balance team also will have the strength and confidence to revert balance changes when they turn out bad. Like the casttime on Blinding Powder or the Chrono trade off. And that they are more careful when touching instant skills and insist on this trade off kitten for other specs too.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi Everyone,

    We’ve done some work on the next balance update and wanted to share some of the potential changes for discussion and feedback. As a reminder, this update is intended to be smaller but more targeted to address major issues within the game mode as we work toward some major changes in a future update. This is also not the full list of changes for the update, just the ones targeted at PvP.

    The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

    In particular we’re looking at:

    • Condi Thief
    • Holosmith
    • Condi Mirage
    • Rampage
    • Warrior’s Cunning
    • Revisiting Staff Thief

    General

    • Sigil of Agility has been removed from the PvP build panel

    This came up again as we were looking at holosmith quickness but is something we’ve been considering for a long time. Quickness in general is something that we’re looking at for the future update, but in the short-term we feel that this sigil is too easily accessible for the power it provides.

    Condi Thief
    The main issue we’re looking to address with condi thief is the initial burst potential. Long term there are definitely questions about how this build is applying conditions, but for now we want to push it more toward a grindy build than a bursty one.

    • Spider Venom: Reduced poison duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Serpent's Touch: Reduced poison stacks from 2 to 1 in PvP only

    Holosmith
    Holosmith quickness has been a big point of feedback and we’re planning to make some adjustments there. Removing Sigil of Agility was part of this, and we’re also looking at a minor nerf to Kinetic Battery.

    This leaves Elixir U. We’re considering a quickness reduction here as well, but are currently leaning toward an interesting change that’s worth discussing. That change being a heavy reduction of the stability granted. The goal of this change is to leave U as the big quickness skill, but also open the door for more counterplay. This would give opportunity to avoid Corona Burst and then CC the holosmith instead of just getting run over by quickness.

    • Kinetic Battery: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Elixir U: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 1 second in PvP only

    Condi Mirage
    We understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Phantasmal Warlock:

      • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
      • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
    • Chaos Vortex:

      • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
      • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
      • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

    Rampage
    Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.

    • Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows
      • Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only
      • Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

    Warrior’s Cunning
    We’re making an adjustment to bring Warrior’s Cunning more in-line with other damage traits.

    • Warrior's Cunning: Reduced damage bonus against targets above 90% health from 25% to 7% in PvP only. Reduced damage bonus against targets with barrier from 50% to 10% in PvP only.

    Staff Thief
    As mentioned the other day, we want to revisit the recent change to Debilitating Arc for the next balance update. There are still concerns about putting it back to 4 initiative, but it doesn’t really make sense for it to coexist with Vault at 6. We’re reducing the cost to 5 while making some minor adjustments to Quick Pockets and Staff Master.

    • Quick Pockets: Reduced initiative gained on weapon swap from 3 to 2 in PvP only
    • Staff Master: Reduced endurance gain per initiative spent from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Debilitating Arc: Reduced initiative cost from 6 to 5 in PvP only

    Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

    -The Systems Team

    ...Did you guys test these changes and make sure you didn't completely kill a build, ability, or weapon?

    I hope it "kills" them.

    Keep killing everything.

    Once everything is dead, we can have zombie fights.

    Preserve nothing.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Thief is my obsession.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Condi Mirage
    We understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Phantasmal Warlock:

      • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
      • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
    • Chaos Vortex:

      • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
      • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
      • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

    Somethng you absolutely DONT understand - without IH mirage ambushes are completely garbage and GUT real mesmer ambushes is stupid as without IH mirage absolutely cant exist, why not change CLONE ambush duration and actually BUFF real mesmer ambush??? The same been with chronophantasma,instead of nerfing it in the first place all phantasms were gutted AND ONLY THEN "CP" was nerfed and none of the phantasm nerfs were reverted.
    Yet again 50% nerf for the mesmer as all previous nerfs, for the mesmer class nothing changed with this "new pvp balance dev", especially for chrono, still ultra dead. Not to mention how useless 3-4-5 skills on staff now.
    I suggested some things a long time ago here but I have no hopes in you guys after you guys failed to show that you understand anything about the classes you are going to "balance" (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/85255/yet-another-mirage-thread#latest)

  • Mandatory.6590Mandatory.6590 Member ✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    Ih is not touched. staff is nerfed

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mandatory.6590 said:
    Ih is not touched. staff is nerfed

    I seen your first post, pretty nonconstructive af. If you dont understand what I wrote, you could just not reply to me, lol

  • I hope that the update will be soon, because the current mesmers and warriors really rot PvP.

  • Just scrap the current system entirely. It is no real PVP anyway, just node bunkering and back dooring with random PUGs who have more impact on your rating and rewards than you do. Many of these balance talks for PVP are because of the game mode itself. Recently, Scourge wouldn't have been killed off if node bunkering wasn't the only important objective. How many other builds have been nerfed to obsolescence for the same reason? I play mobile builds to cap/decap in the hopes of a win while others too often are fighting off point, zerg, afk, or whatever else they do. The game structure itself is my issue, way more so than any OP class or spec. In the meantime I'll keep trying to get better at my gameplay, work on my 3rd set of pvp legendary gear, and keep dreaming...

    Today I qualified Trip Gold then won a match and went Plat, just for one game though cause I lost the next match due to off node fighting en masse. The next match was a loss due to an AFK. This happens every season. Doesn't even matter what level my badge says, I always feel like it's an unranked free for all.

    Above all else, rate us for individual effort/statistical contribution instead of as a group. At the very most, give us an LFG style PVP system 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 etc

    PVP should be for combat, not node captures. King of the hill should be an appetizer, not the main course.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Mandatory.6590 said:
    Ih is not touched. staff is nerfed

    IH is not the issue, the passivity comes only from the wrong designed condi ambushes. On power weapons, mainly sword it is an active and skillful mechanic provides mindgames and counters from both sides in a fight, including the clone dodge preventing them form getting instant killled and makes the Mesmer able to counter classes skills/ traits normally can utilize clones vs the Mesmer, during the opponent can try to bait dodges from the Mirage with clones.

    The problem is, that condi ambushes are too much about pure dmg application and not about utilities you can use active to outplay ppl (interrupts with clones on sword for example) or to prepare burst combos (might/vulnerability stacks). Also the condi dmg from clone ambushes is way too high (even the dmg from normal clone autoattacks is too high, me not using condi remove on purpose got killed by nomal scepter autoattack from 1-2 clones from an afk Mesmer not dodging a single time before his Signet of Illusion even created the last clone, i mean kitten... don't ask me why he used that Signet, i have no clue but it made this funny experiemt possible), means it is enough when the Mesmer just dodges passively and kite and let clones do all the work with ambushes and normal autoattacks. No Power clone ambush or normal autoattack does even near that dmg when you compare.

    Another point was the way higher clone generation from condi weapons due to the changes that scepter and staff create one more clone than pre Hot. Means you could not bait a Condimesmer to dodge to keep clones alive because he could too easily create new ones. Good that these changes get reverted finally.
    All Anet needs to do to balance Condimesmer now is reworking the condi ambush skills into something more active and utility based in general, or nerf their dmg remarkable. In both cases the dmg loss from clones need to get compensated by adding more active ways of condi application by shatters again. Just not as overloaded as with the old Ineptitude and blind on all shatters spam style.

    Nerfing Mesmers own staff skills is also not rly good, i agree and doesn't solve the problem of the passive condi applications from clones. It will just make Mesmers maybe unplayable or at least make Mesmers relying even more on the passsive playstyle then before.

    The biggest part of the problem is that a vast majority of the players look at what is effecitvely a 1k ranged poke with Mesmer Staff 1, but because 90% of that 1k damage is through conditions they cry about how there are "ENDLESS CONDITIONS" when fighting Mirage. While Holosmith frequently crits for 1.5k,potentially 2k damage with it's immediately acting faster traveling Rifle 1 with nary a peep. As those only power builds are allowed infinite auto attacks. And I have genuinely heard that suggested.

    Holo and even rifle autoattack hits easy for up to 3k on offensive equipped light and medium armor targets xD I mean Mirages at least can't perma spam ambushes/ dodges but for that the dmg application is way more passive than using your own autoattack. In the end it is both not healthy for the game.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Jojo.6590 said:

    Wow, these changes came out fast and are really spot on (would be nice to see these changes applied to WvW too) :)!

    Just an idea for Mirage and Chrono. Removing distortion and illusionary persona (LP) was too much, just taking away the former would have been fine as Chrono's clone generation/ up time really isn't that high (at least compared to Mirage). However these changes done to Chrono could actually (I know this is going to get some backlash) balance out Mirage really well with how the specialization functions. Mirage does not need distortion as it has Mirage cloak (a fancy distortion) on top of this Mirage also has really good (maybe even considerably high) clone generation and up time. I would not be surprised if removing LP and distortion brought Mirage inline, of course this is no minor change and would also require changes to a few traits and maybe even a new unique shatter for Mirage to replace distortion (at least one could hope ;) ).
    All in all these "minor" changes are spot on and the speed at witch you and your team did this is amazing! A big THANK YOU is definitely in order :)

    (Edit grammar)

    One idea I've been pondering myself is replacing mirage shatters with clone commands that don't necessarily involve the destruction of the clone. That way, mirage could maintain the theme it currently has of being able to use its clones as a persistent source of damage like an old-school phantasm build without needing IH, but it can't add the spike potential of shatters on top of that.

    So, F1 might trigger IH next time you dodge, F2 might cause the clones to copy the next weapon skill you activate that isn't an autoattack or an illusion-generating skill (with reduced coefficients, naturally), F3... would need to be some form of hard CC so it still works with Confounding Suggestions (maybe it could essentially replace Illusionary Ambush and cause a daze as well - but the daze is linked to the skill rather than to individual clones so it lacks the potential to set up chain-dazes) and F4 could essentially be Desert Distortion packed into a single skill, being the one panic button that the Mirage has that actually consumes their clones.

    Obviously, this is going into the territory of "major rework" rather than PvP balance, but it would be one way to give mirage a solid tradeoff compared to core.

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Condi Thief
    The main issue we’re looking to address with condi thief is the initial burst potential. Long term there are definitely questions about how this build is applying conditions, but for now we want to push it more toward a grindy build than a bursty one.

    • Spider Venom: Reduced poison duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
    • Serpent's Touch: Reduced poison stacks from 2 to 1 in PvP only

    I mentioned this in the last thread, but the issue is SWORD dagger Condi thief NOT CONDI THIEF IN GENERAL.

    WHY are we continuing to nerf D/D condi, P/D condi, and other potential condi thieves and NOT dealing with the SWORD part of the issue?? D/D condi thief for example has been TORN APART for YEARS due to nerfs aimed at sword/dagger. The issue with sword dagger is the ability to port in and out, apply damage and leave without being pressured. The immobilize doesn’t help either since it makes counterplay even more difficult.

    PLEASE consider these factors as you make these changes to condi thief. And consider actually giving buffs to under-utilized weapon sets that are getting destroyed by large, generalized nerfs like these.

  • Kitta.3657Kitta.3657 Member ✭✭✭

    thanks

    can you now please revert your removal of illusionary persona on chronomancer in all game modes :) as this has been proven to be one of the worst (if not the one) change done to mesmer.

  • dDuff.3860dDuff.3860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    General
    * Sigil of Agility has been removed from the PvP build panel

    If we can not to remove this, can we as well get some other sigil added to PvP? 1 out -> 1 in is a nice scheme to start with and can produce some build diversity.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    • Quick Pockets: Reduced initiative gained on weapon swap from 3 to 2 in PvP only
    • Staff Master: Reduced endurance gain per initiative spent from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Debilitating Arc: Reduced initiative cost from 6 to 5 in PvP only

    5 ini on debilitating arc looks fine to me along with jump being addressed. But the quick pockets trait competing with bewildering ambush and sleigh of hand look a bit lackluster with 2 ini on 10 sec. Take a look at acro trait that does the same and apply regeneration. Quick Pockets might use the same effect, say applying quickness (or protection, or stability?)

    Overall very good so far.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.3527 until you successfully repair chrono's ability to function why on earth would you touch mirage's mechanic. There is too much risk. You have shown you don't have the ability to address problems promptly. Why create a scenario that could go wrong and leave mesmers only making an impact in raids? And speaking of impact, if you can't even ship impact savant with barrier from condi damage, why would you trust you can ship a new mirage mechanic that isn't unneccesarily restrictive?

    I know I am being pessimistic, but I truly believe numerical changes (even drastic 50% reductions like you propose in your post) are ultimately better. I do not believe your studio's tech department can pump out reworks fast enough to deal with issues, vs just raising a number if kitten hits the fan.

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    I don't think nerfing Stability on core engi is a good move. Core engi has extremely narrow stability sources (basically only elixirs...), please don't nerf it to nerf elite spec. Nerf stability on holo3 instead, don't kick a dead body (core engi).

    Other than that, big big plus for Cal and his big balls nerfs. You actually put some hope into me.

    [NUKE]

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dDuff.3860 said:

    • Sigil of Agility has been removed from the PvP build panel

    If we can not to remove this, can we as well get some other sigil added to PvP? 1 out -> 1 in is a nice scheme to start with and can produce some build diversity.

    The PvP sigil selection is currently very lackluster. Without SoA there's just a selection of more or less useless sigils.
    While I think removing SoA is the right call, I would like to see the selection widened into some direction.

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Condi Mirage
    We understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Phantasmal Warlock:

      • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
      • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
    • Chaos Vortex:

      • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
      • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
      • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

    I'll be honest, I'm not exactly happy with those changes. Vortex damage reduction seems very hefty, even if kind of fair, nerfing staff is almost like kicking a dead horse for 3/5 skills on it are very mediocre (or bad, looking at Chaos Armor) and only useful thing about Warlocks is that there's 2 of them, clone generation nerfs are going to make entire class across the board worse again (and only Mirage right now is more or less playable).

    I fail to see staff's utility, because Chaos Storm offers no pressure with the "only daze once" change and people just generally stand in it and ignore it, Warlock's still a pretty aimless phantasm which you only really use for clones, 2 is good, 4 is sadness-inducing with how little it does, and auto's still one of the most boring things in the game with it's slowness and random nature. If you want to push it into "utility weapon", then make sure to add some of that utility in the first place - because it honestly hangs on 2 being good and 3 summoning 2 ambush/shatter fodders, which is kinda tough to call "utility-oriented skillset".

    If you want to address scepter mirage and it's burst, you need to hit it's scepter ambush first and foremost, then - Duelist's Discipline. As a complimentary compensation, could make Torch phantasm less useless by making it a fully condi-oriented skill and changing it's loathsome attack itself into something reliable. Axe could use a bit of help in order to compete with scepter's much safer and reliable ambush and clone generation and defensive utility.

  • Nix.3152Nix.3152 Member ✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    if you wanna nerf holosmith nerf the spec itself not core uti skills like elixir u. core engi is already beyond trash because you trying to fix holosmith by nerfing core traits.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Umm...

    Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

    Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

    now that cmirage is nerfed to kitten you wanna nerf core condi mes i see?
    those "18" bleeds deal same damage as other hard hitting skills of other classes, prove me wrong or go home.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Condi Mirage
    We understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
    • Phantasmal Warlock:

      • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
      • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
    • Chaos Vortex:

      • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
      • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
      • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

    Oh please do reconsider these, Condi Mirage is really not that bad currently. Any threads/comments about that you may have seen are by perpetual mesmer-haters that won't be satisfied until the entire class is deleted.
    If you aren't touching Infinite Horizon yet, you really shouldn't do anything at all. We can wait.
    For the record, I've never enjoyed playing Mirage or playing against Mirage but I think they've been hammered with enough nerfs for now.

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    I really hope you don't actually nerf Elixir U. If Holosmith is the problem, then nerf Holosmith and stop nerfing Scrapper and core Engineer with it.

    Doc Von Doom

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.