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Soulbeast is quite OP ( wvw balance )

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  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    Personally I am not understanding this post, if for you playing with ranger has become too easy, you should change profession and see if you can get the same results with other professions, do not come and ask for nerfs on the ranger forum.
    Nerf my profession because I'm too strong, it's a joke right? Lol :)

    I think its more of that he sees the writing on the wall and would rather have a constructive forum post that the devs can be influenced by in order to stave off a massive nerf (see Rampage) and instead get small number tweaks.

    But it was almost time for Anet to start treating other professions after Ranger, Mesmer and Necromancer.

    All that made OP Boonbeast and Sniper Ranger got reworked or was removed. Ranger has been replaced by Spb, Weavers and Holos :)

    This from a PvP point of view, in WvW we cannot talk about balancing XD

    Necros atm are not the strongest class, and have far less sustain dmg and mobility compared to rangers thieves revs or guards.

    Before we get hit everyone else needs to be taken down to our level before they decide what to do.

    As for mes: I dunno man Pu mes? maybe > @bigo.9037 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    just yesterday: rapidfire, over 2k hits, per hit, followed by a 16k maul.

    Soulbeast is not OP. IT IS BROKEN. Rangers need to be hit with a double nerf hammer: half their damage and reduce their range.

    Personally, i don't know about doing that.

    Rapid fire is avoidable by hiding behind a pillar or an object and aegis and magnetic aura counter it.

    rapid-fire hits like what 5-6 times? that's maybe 10-12k and if it misses after a few of those hits you don't hit for full damage, and it does have a cd so i disagree.

    It hits 10 times but yea I guess. Cd 8 secs

    At least rangers aren't going invis ccing you and one shot, like Pu mes or thief, and its out in the open and you actually see them and can avoid them and cast aegis or somethin.

    But rangers(slb) have a certain amount of stealth, 50+% quickness uptime, 25 might most of the time, nearly permanent stability. High alacrity uptime, resistance, permanent protection, fury etc. Not to mention dmg immunity.

    So unless you're running a lot of boon corrupt and ranger is already fighting outnumbered, slb is still superior imo.
    Mes and thief are able to run away better than rangers that's true.

    Busted , I bet you dont play ranger, got no resistance and no alacrity , play it and se "how op it is" are you a necro main ?

    No, I main ranger. Why do you think I made this post?

    Where is your post complaining about all professions? I’d like to read that and your suggestions!

    Also, do we balance professions for your wvw duels going forward? If that’s the plan, then there are a whole lot of things we need to buff on professions!

    Omg dude calm down. Who are you to decide I can't call out my main class without calling out all other classes?
    I Already said other classes ALSO need nerfs, but SOME people still believe soulbeast is a weak class and needs buffs, which is crazy to me. Yes! Other classes need nerfs. I'm not gonna go into specifics here tho, because this is a RANGER THREAD. how are you not getting this?

    Also, i accept soulbeast / core ranger's role as a roamer / smallscale fighter rather than a blob fighter. That's what I like about it. Not every class needs a build for every game mode. If they can fill 2/4 of reasonable roles ( pve, pvp, wvw-blob, wvw-roam ) then that's fine, imo. Trying to balance every class to have a role in every game mode is impossible. Ranger has pvp and wvw-roam covered, and I'm ok with that. My ele/tempest can work in different modes, so i swap to it when I get in a group and don't already have a support.

    AND MY POINT IS.. Soulbeast is OVER-performing in wvw-roam / duels. doesn't necessarily need drastic nerfs, but here's what I would do:

    Increase WHAO cooldown to a base of 22 or 24 sec so it's 18 sec whilst traited, Reduce healing by 20%.
    Decrease boons from plasma to basic boons like protection, quickness fury, might aegis swiftness.
    Increase cooldown of dolyak stance to 40s.
    Moastance gives 50% boon duration, protection duration it applies is reduced by 20% (edit wrong number)

    Not saying that's enough , but a step in right direction. Maybe slightly less, perhaps. But it's a decent take imo.

    This game isn’t “Duel Wars 2”... Ranger, and other professions, have deficiencies for wvw play, but here you are in the Ranger section complaining about duels... WvW isn’t a duel zone, it’s a zone designed for mass player realm vs realm team combat.

    If you have problems with professions then take your complaints to the general profession section, because what you think you can suggest for Ranger can be applied to all professions in ways. And you must not have been paying attention to the devs recently...

    Lastly, you act as if Ranger is some almost immortal build, but it’s not. You stated that a top player beat you so start at the point... or would you prefer that we make efforts to nerf good players so your perception of the outcome of a duel is fairer and more even across professions?

    Seriously, this game isn’t designed for your meaningless duels, so think about that.

    Edit- and players with your mentality are why, for example, Druid for team play (what is was supposed to be primarily design for) still sucks today. Y’all barraged the forums with duel qq complaints, and that irrational noise is what contributed to keeping Druid in the team junk pile... We literally had a player in the spvp section complain that their tank scrapper would stalemate against a tank Druid, so we obviously needed to nerf Druid... And all the lil “me too” thief players who couldn’t handle a Ranger build that actually provided a challenge and could win, as opposed to easily getting mowed down... And after PoF, we see the same trend with engineer. Y’all qq hard now that engi players can actually pose a real threat with holo, so obviously it must get nerfed for your 1v1s despite the fact that core and scrapper are still subpar comparatively.

  • @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Speaking here as someone with a Soulbeast, but also as someone who regularly fights them with a Reaper and a Berserker.

    A good Ranger player, be it Core, Soulbeast, or Druid, is capable to fighting just about anything so long as they stay at max range and camp LB, or if running Short Bow bringing enough immobilize to overwhelm their opponents condi removal. A Soulbeast can still instadown someone from max range with Sic'em and Rapid Fire, granted that same Soulbeast is a dead man walking if caught in melee, but they have the tools from Core to solve that problem to stay at range.

    Anet is completely nerfing the damage on hard CC and nerfing damage across the board because not being able to respond to an opponent is no fun.

    So, the nerfs you are wanting are coming. If you want a discussion on what you as a Soulbeast player would find appropriate nerfs to the espec then here are a few from my perspective, both as someone who plays as and fights Soulbeasts.

    Sic'em: Either nerf the self dmg modifier to 10% in PvP/WvW or make it only benefit the next 2 attacks. The last option would be like the new Charge on warrior Warhorn, and give Axe or GS roamers the higher damage on Winter's Bite and Maul while reducing the damage output of Sic'em+Rapid Fire which is the source of most of the angst and grief from other players.

    Attack of Opportunity: Both from Maul and Moment of Clarity. Reduce the damage to 10% in PvP/WvW .

    Beast Mastery/Beast Mode: Frankly these two together provide WAY too many stat increases, which is another problem. For instance if you take Beast Mastery, while merged with a Ferocious pet you get:
    550 Ferocity (36.6% more crit damage)
    30% move speed
    10% damage increase
    350 Power
    and 150 to each other attribute

    When they gave Berserker 300 Power and 300 Condi damage in Berserk Mode they threw in -300 toughness to balance it out. The bonuses from Beast Mastery need to be halved in WvW/PvP while in Beast Mode. The various pet archetypes need a negative stat modifier in them relative to the archetype as well, Ferocious for instance a -150 toughness or -150 vitality would balance it out. For something like Supportive -150 power would work.

    As for Boons... The durations on WHAO and Fresh Reinforcements are fixed, and are low. The problem has more to do with the availability of boons to begin with, and is a game wide issue. So fixing the game wide issue would also fix this issue, and Anet did say that it is in the works.

    IF Anet does nerf everything across the board, then I think these changes would enough on Soulbeast and still be healthy.

    These suggestions leave the time they find.
    Warrior and Ranger cannot be balanced in the same way.
    Ranger has basic statistics lower than the other professions precisely because he has a pet.
    When you use BM you do not get extra damage as for Warrior it is more correct to say that the profession is on par with the others, so you cannot balance them in the same way.

    I would like to add my personal opinion.
    These posts show that there is a part of the community that will never be happy for how many Nerfs Ranger has achieved, because it will never be enough.
    In these posts we talk as if the other professions do not have the means to neutralize Ranger "Ranger is able to fight anything as long as it remains at maximum distance" but it is also up to the player to prevent and neutralize the opponent's strengths, if you are not able to beat a ranger you may be weak you or your build is weak against that .. not necessarily Ranger OP.
    For example if you use a build without removals conditions and die against a Mirage or Necro it is your problem
    Only Necro has a real disadvantage against distance classe

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Speaking here as someone with a Soulbeast, but also as someone who regularly fights them with a Reaper and a Berserker.

    A good Ranger player, be it Core, Soulbeast, or Druid, is capable to fighting just about anything so long as they stay at max range and camp LB, or if running Short Bow bringing enough immobilize to overwhelm their opponents condi removal. A Soulbeast can still instadown someone from max range with Sic'em and Rapid Fire, granted that same Soulbeast is a dead man walking if caught in melee, but they have the tools from Core to solve that problem to stay at range.

    Anet is completely nerfing the damage on hard CC and nerfing damage across the board because not being able to respond to an opponent is no fun.

    So, the nerfs you are wanting are coming. If you want a discussion on what you as a Soulbeast player would find appropriate nerfs to the espec then here are a few from my perspective, both as someone who plays as and fights Soulbeasts.

    Sic'em: Either nerf the self dmg modifier to 10% in PvP/WvW or make it only benefit the next 2 attacks. The last option would be like the new Charge on warrior Warhorn, and give Axe or GS roamers the higher damage on Winter's Bite and Maul while reducing the damage output of Sic'em+Rapid Fire which is the source of most of the angst and grief from other players.

    Attack of Opportunity: Both from Maul and Moment of Clarity. Reduce the damage to 10% in PvP/WvW .

    Beast Mastery/Beast Mode: Frankly these two together provide WAY too many stat increases, which is another problem. For instance if you take Beast Mastery, while merged with a Ferocious pet you get:
    550 Ferocity (36.6% more crit damage)
    30% move speed
    10% damage increase
    350 Power
    and 150 to each other attribute

    When they gave Berserker 300 Power and 300 Condi damage in Berserk Mode they threw in -300 toughness to balance it out. The bonuses from Beast Mastery need to be halved in WvW/PvP while in Beast Mode. The various pet archetypes need a negative stat modifier in them relative to the archetype as well, Ferocious for instance a -150 toughness or -150 vitality would balance it out. For something like Supportive -150 power would work.

    As for Boons... The durations on WHAO and Fresh Reinforcements are fixed, and are low. The problem has more to do with the availability of boons to begin with, and is a game wide issue. So fixing the game wide issue would also fix this issue, and Anet did say that it is in the works.

    IF Anet does nerf everything across the board, then I think these changes would enough on Soulbeast and still be healthy.

    These suggestions leave the time they find.
    Warrior and Ranger cannot be balanced in the same way.
    Ranger has basic statistics lower than the other professions precisely because he has a pet.
    When you use BM you do not get extra damage as for Warrior it is more correct to say that the profession is on par with the others, so you cannot balance them in the same way.

    I would like to add my personal opinion.
    These posts show that there is a part of the community that will never be happy for how many Nerfs Ranger has achieved, because it will never be enough.
    In these posts we talk as if the other professions do not have the means to neutralize Ranger "Ranger is able to fight anything as long as it remains at maximum distance" but it is also up to the player to prevent and neutralize the opponent's strengths, if you are not able to beat a ranger you may be weak you or your build is weak against that .. not necessarily Ranger OP.
    For example if you use a build without removals conditions and die against a Mirage or Necro it is your problem
    Only Necro has a real disadvantage against distance classe

    nerfing sicem 1shot burst which takes 2 buttons to utilize doesnt count as nerfing ranger as a whole. no class should be able to pull that off with a passive unblockable on top of that.

    so if sicem ranger imo doesnt count as nerf, that means soulbeast as a whole has hardly gotten any nerfs at all since pof, with the exception of the latest GS changes. but the overall problem of soulbeast still remain.

    also, if you ever fought a really good reaper, you would know they dont have issues fighting long ranged classes at all. exceptions would be thief and mesmer, but anything else is pretty fair game honestly.

    also, i find it VERY telling most of you guys think all my proposals are ridiculous even in WVW balance. herrderr soulbeast is weak.. have you ever even fought a good one? i dont think most people have. im very used to hearing "youre the best soulbeast ive seen" or other soulbeasts telling me " i usually have an easy time against soulbeasts, except for you" etc. most people have no idea what they are capable of.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Speaking here as someone with a Soulbeast, but also as someone who regularly fights them with a Reaper and a Berserker.

    A good Ranger player, be it Core, Soulbeast, or Druid, is capable to fighting just about anything so long as they stay at max range and camp LB, or if running Short Bow bringing enough immobilize to overwhelm their opponents condi removal. A Soulbeast can still instadown someone from max range with Sic'em and Rapid Fire, granted that same Soulbeast is a dead man walking if caught in melee, but they have the tools from Core to solve that problem to stay at range.

    Anet is completely nerfing the damage on hard CC and nerfing damage across the board because not being able to respond to an opponent is no fun.

    So, the nerfs you are wanting are coming. If you want a discussion on what you as a Soulbeast player would find appropriate nerfs to the espec then here are a few from my perspective, both as someone who plays as and fights Soulbeasts.

    Sic'em: Either nerf the self dmg modifier to 10% in PvP/WvW or make it only benefit the next 2 attacks. The last option would be like the new Charge on warrior Warhorn, and give Axe or GS roamers the higher damage on Winter's Bite and Maul while reducing the damage output of Sic'em+Rapid Fire which is the source of most of the angst and grief from other players.

    Attack of Opportunity: Both from Maul and Moment of Clarity. Reduce the damage to 10% in PvP/WvW .

    Beast Mastery/Beast Mode: Frankly these two together provide WAY too many stat increases, which is another problem. For instance if you take Beast Mastery, while merged with a Ferocious pet you get:
    550 Ferocity (36.6% more crit damage)
    30% move speed
    10% damage increase
    350 Power
    and 150 to each other attribute

    When they gave Berserker 300 Power and 300 Condi damage in Berserk Mode they threw in -300 toughness to balance it out. The bonuses from Beast Mastery need to be halved in WvW/PvP while in Beast Mode. The various pet archetypes need a negative stat modifier in them relative to the archetype as well, Ferocious for instance a -150 toughness or -150 vitality would balance it out. For something like Supportive -150 power would work.

    As for Boons... The durations on WHAO and Fresh Reinforcements are fixed, and are low. The problem has more to do with the availability of boons to begin with, and is a game wide issue. So fixing the game wide issue would also fix this issue, and Anet did say that it is in the works.

    IF Anet does nerf everything across the board, then I think these changes would enough on Soulbeast and still be healthy.

    These suggestions leave the time they find.
    Warrior and Ranger cannot be balanced in the same way.
    Ranger has basic statistics lower than the other professions precisely because he has a pet.
    When you use BM you do not get extra damage as for Warrior it is more correct to say that the profession is on par with the others, so you cannot balance them in the same way.

    I would like to add my personal opinion.
    These posts show that there is a part of the community that will never be happy for how many Nerfs Ranger has achieved, because it will never be enough.
    In these posts we talk as if the other professions do not have the means to neutralize Ranger "Ranger is able to fight anything as long as it remains at maximum distance" but it is also up to the player to prevent and neutralize the opponent's strengths, if you are not able to beat a ranger you may be weak you or your build is weak against that .. not necessarily Ranger OP.
    For example if you use a build without removals conditions and die against a Mirage or Necro it is your problem
    Only Necro has a real disadvantage against distance classe

    You'll notice that what I suggested with Beast Mastery would still have a large amount of extra stats.

    As for Necro, I actually kill a fair number of Rangers on my Reaper. Most Rangers never notice Corrosive Poison Cloud until I've dashed onto them with Reaper Shroud. Granted most WvW players are bad so /shrug.

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Speaking here as someone with a Soulbeast, but also as someone who regularly fights them with a Reaper and a Berserker.

    A good Ranger player, be it Core, Soulbeast, or Druid, is capable to fighting just about anything so long as they stay at max range and camp LB, or if running Short Bow bringing enough immobilize to overwhelm their opponents condi removal. A Soulbeast can still instadown someone from max range with Sic'em and Rapid Fire, granted that same Soulbeast is a dead man walking if caught in melee, but they have the tools from Core to solve that problem to stay at range.

    Anet is completely nerfing the damage on hard CC and nerfing damage across the board because not being able to respond to an opponent is no fun.

    So, the nerfs you are wanting are coming. If you want a discussion on what you as a Soulbeast player would find appropriate nerfs to the espec then here are a few from my perspective, both as someone who plays as and fights Soulbeasts.

    Sic'em: Either nerf the self dmg modifier to 10% in PvP/WvW or make it only benefit the next 2 attacks. The last option would be like the new Charge on warrior Warhorn, and give Axe or GS roamers the higher damage on Winter's Bite and Maul while reducing the damage output of Sic'em+Rapid Fire which is the source of most of the angst and grief from other players.

    Attack of Opportunity: Both from Maul and Moment of Clarity. Reduce the damage to 10% in PvP/WvW .

    Beast Mastery/Beast Mode: Frankly these two together provide WAY too many stat increases, which is another problem. For instance if you take Beast Mastery, while merged with a Ferocious pet you get:
    550 Ferocity (36.6% more crit damage)
    30% move speed
    10% damage increase
    350 Power
    and 150 to each other attribute

    When they gave Berserker 300 Power and 300 Condi damage in Berserk Mode they threw in -300 toughness to balance it out. The bonuses from Beast Mastery need to be halved in WvW/PvP while in Beast Mode. The various pet archetypes need a negative stat modifier in them relative to the archetype as well, Ferocious for instance a -150 toughness or -150 vitality would balance it out. For something like Supportive -150 power would work.

    As for Boons... The durations on WHAO and Fresh Reinforcements are fixed, and are low. The problem has more to do with the availability of boons to begin with, and is a game wide issue. So fixing the game wide issue would also fix this issue, and Anet did say that it is in the works.

    IF Anet does nerf everything across the board, then I think these changes would enough on Soulbeast and still be healthy.

    These suggestions leave the time they find.
    Warrior and Ranger cannot be balanced in the same way.
    Ranger has basic statistics lower than the other professions precisely because he has a pet.
    When you use BM you do not get extra damage as for Warrior it is more correct to say that the profession is on par with the others, so you cannot balance them in the same way.

    I would like to add my personal opinion.
    These posts show that there is a part of the community that will never be happy for how many Nerfs Ranger has achieved, because it will never be enough.
    In these posts we talk as if the other professions do not have the means to neutralize Ranger "Ranger is able to fight anything as long as it remains at maximum distance" but it is also up to the player to prevent and neutralize the opponent's strengths, if you are not able to beat a ranger you may be weak you or your build is weak against that .. not necessarily Ranger OP.
    For example if you use a build without removals conditions and die against a Mirage or Necro it is your problem
    Only Necro has a real disadvantage against distance classe

    nerfing sicem 1shot burst which takes 2 buttons to utilize doesnt count as nerfing ranger as a whole. no class should be able to pull that off with a passive unblockable on top of that.

    so if sicem ranger imo doesnt count as nerf, that means soulbeast as a whole has hardly gotten any nerfs at all since pof, with the exception of the latest GS changes. but the overall problem of soulbeast still remain.

    also, if you ever fought a really good reaper, you would know they dont have issues fighting long ranged classes at all. exceptions would be thief and mesmer, but anything else is pretty fair game honestly.

    also, i find it VERY telling most of you guys think all my proposals are ridiculous even in WVW balance. herrderr soulbeast is weak.. have you ever even fought a good one? i dont think most people have. im very used to hearing "youre the best soulbeast ive seen" or other soulbeasts telling me " i usually have an easy time against soulbeasts, except for you" etc. most people have no idea what they are capable of.

    Edited since @bigo.9037 posted as I was typing.:
    The main problem with Soulbeast is the degree to which things that went to the pet are shared with the Soulbeast in Beast Mode. Its those things that need to be reduced for balance. 25% or higher modifiers on damage have no place in WvW or PvP on any class period. A toggleable mode that can grant in excess of 1000 stat points when traited should not exist.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    Not as much so necro is still doing less damage in PVE than other classes and our sustain is to say the least lackluster compared to other classes.

    Every class has their issues necros have theirs as they tend to be free food for other classes once outside shroud because you get focused down.

    But im sure you don-t care bout that because we are on ranger forums and we should be talking about rangers and its elites not other specs.

    Yes this is partly true, the necro profession is built to work together with the shroud, like Ranger with the pet and Thief with invisibility .. I wouldn't mind seeing a necro that doesn't depend so much on the shroud.

    Thing is, its the small thing is, reaper has limited if might gen source and its very selfish, and it has a bit of dependency on shroud in some of its damage.

    Other classes have too much of everything for necros to be ever survive long enough, such as classes with boon durations boon spam mobility cc spam in large amount, combined together, and thats not mentioning teleports and invis, two of which holo had access too in decent amount. Stuff that gives rangers problems also gives problems in larger amount from those classes due to lackluster mobility and over dependence on shroud to survive, and outside of shroud, things like stab and that xtra hp don't exist, and thus we re probably stuck and dead. We have to have absolutely perfect placement. Even then, things like thieves with mobility stealth and cc pop outta nowhere and blow you up.

    yes we can win by throwing fear if we get them right, and yes we can sometimes outsmart our enemies placing fields, but it won't do much good if the enemy cures their cc due to overabundance of clears mobility and cc combined.

    I've had similar kinda thief just pop outta nowhere on ranger and start ccing me on druid, but druid i feel has better sustain and more clears for condi.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Axl.8924 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    Not as much so necro is still doing less damage in PVE than other classes and our sustain is to say the least lackluster compared to other classes.

    Every class has their issues necros have theirs as they tend to be free food for other classes once outside shroud because you get focused down.

    But im sure you don-t care bout that because we are on ranger forums and we should be talking about rangers and its elites not other specs.

    Yes this is partly true, the necro profession is built to work together with the shroud, like Ranger with the pet and Thief with invisibility .. I wouldn't mind seeing a necro that doesn't depend so much on the shroud.

    Thing is, its the small thing is, reaper has limited if might gen source and its very selfish, and it has a bit of dependency on shroud in some of its damage.

    Other classes have too much of everything for necros to be ever survive long enough, such as classes with boon durations boon spam mobility cc spam in large amount, combined together, and thats not mentioning teleports and invis, two of which holo had access too in decent amount. Stuff that gives rangers problems also gives problems in larger amount from those classes due to lackluster mobility and over dependence on shroud to survive, and outside of shroud, things like stab and that xtra hp don't exist, and thus we re probably stuck and dead. We have to have absolutely perfect placement. Even then, things like thieves with mobility stealth and cc pop outta nowhere and blow you up.

    yes we can win by throwing fear if we get them right, and yes we can sometimes outsmart our enemies placing fields, but it won't do much good if the enemy cures their cc due to overabundance of clears mobility and cc combined.

    I've had similar kinda thief just pop outta nowhere on ranger and start ccing me on druid, but druid i feel has better sustain and more clears for condi.

    Yeah... in the great upcoming Balance patch perhaps Necro will actually get buffs while others get long needed nerfs... But this thread is on Soulbeast.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm sorry for derailing but that one person was complaining about mes and necro. I did mention ranger's autofire.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Axl.8924 said:
    I'm sorry for derailing but that one person was complaining about mes and necro. I did mention ranger's autofire.

    No problem, they're just trying to deflect any talk of balance away from their favorite pew pew builds, and don't get me wrong it is a fun pew pew build, but @bigo.9037 is right that it would be more constructive to discuss what is needed to balance Soulbeast now in hopes that Anet listens rather than risk them listening to the blanket QQ in the WvW forum.

    LB auto did get tweaked, but the issues with Soulbeast are inherent to the pet rider's and modifiers that the SB gains in Beast Mode. I tried to illustrate that amount to which Beast Mode can be over tuned, and if that were the focus of any balance then I think SB would be left in a decent place that the Ranger community can live with. After all you all don't want to end up like Chrono's right?

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'm sorry for derailing but that one person was complaining about mes and necro. I did mention ranger's autofire.

    No problem, they're just trying to deflect any talk of balance away from their favorite pew pew builds, and don't get me wrong it is a fun pew pew build, but @bigo.9037 is right that it would be more constructive to discuss what is needed to balance Soulbeast now in hopes that Anet listens rather than risk them listening to the blanket QQ in the WvW forum.

    LB auto did get tweaked, but the issues with Soulbeast are inherent to the pet rider's and modifiers that the SB gains in Beast Mode. I tried to illustrate that amount to which Beast Mode can be over tuned, and if that were the focus of any balance then I think SB would be left in a decent place that the Ranger community can live with. After all you all don't want to end up like Chrono's right?

    I agree with the stats and modifiers. Finally some people with good constructive ideas instead of dismissing me as necro main. LOL.

  • @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'm sorry for derailing but that one person was complaining about mes and necro. I did mention ranger's autofire.

    No problem, they're just trying to deflect any talk of balance away from their favorite pew pew builds, and don't get me wrong it is a fun pew pew build, but @bigo.9037 is right that it would be more constructive to discuss what is needed to balance Soulbeast now in hopes that Anet listens rather than risk them listening to the blanket QQ in the WvW forum.

    LB auto did get tweaked, but the issues with Soulbeast are inherent to the pet rider's and modifiers that the SB gains in Beast Mode. I tried to illustrate that amount to which Beast Mode can be over tuned, and if that were the focus of any balance then I think SB would be left in a decent place that the Ranger community can live with. After all you all don't want to end up like Chrono's right?

    So reduced damage on LB, Sickem nerfed, Unlocked attacks removed and still isn't not enough? Is there still to be discussed as far as Slb is concerned or perhaps it would be more appropriate for you to learn to play your profession correctly?

    Because in the previous posts we have gone from saying unlockable attacks are a problem then Sickem is a problem and now I read absurd posts that talk about removing a pet or nerf BeastMastery or who knows what, sorry but it is not possible to take these discussions seriously especially if he complains about skills and builds already heavily nerf.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I dunno about nerfing core personally, because I'm concerned we will delete ranger by nerfing core too much.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I'm sorry for derailing but that one person was complaining about mes and necro. I did mention ranger's autofire.

    No problem, they're just trying to deflect any talk of balance away from their favorite pew pew builds, and don't get me wrong it is a fun pew pew build, but @bigo.9037 is right that it would be more constructive to discuss what is needed to balance Soulbeast now in hopes that Anet listens rather than risk them listening to the blanket QQ in the WvW forum.

    LB auto did get tweaked, but the issues with Soulbeast are inherent to the pet rider's and modifiers that the SB gains in Beast Mode. I tried to illustrate that amount to which Beast Mode can be over tuned, and if that were the focus of any balance then I think SB would be left in a decent place that the Ranger community can live with. After all you all don't want to end up like Chrono's right?

    So reduced damage on LB, Sickem nerfed, Unlocked attacks removed and still isn't not enough? Is there still to be discussed as far as Slb is concerned or perhaps it would be more appropriate for you to learn to play your profession correctly?

    Because in the previous posts we have gone from saying unlockable attacks are a problem then Sickem is a problem and now I read absurd posts that talk about removing a pet or nerf BeastMastery or who knows what, sorry but it is not possible to take these discussions seriously especially if he complains about skills and builds already heavily nerf.

    Oh, I murder rangers in WvW lol. But as I said most WvW players are bad, and the best rangers are the ones that keep their distance. So, no I know my classes mate. The unblockable was never the issue, except for low tier player forum QQers, it was and still is the amount of damage modifiers and stat gain from Beast Mode.

  • Za Shaloc.3908Za Shaloc.3908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Three nerfs/changes I'd like to see:

    • Remove damage reduction from Dolyak Stance. The skill is overstacked and never needed this. If the damage reduction stays, then the movement impairment immunity should move to Griffon Stance (which should then have its might procs removed). Reduce the CD back to 30 in PvP if it feels too undertuned there.
    • Remove passive Signet of Stone or move it to a different traitline. Marksmanship should be full committal to damage and should not have a lifesaver passive in it.
    • Add a 1/4s or 1/2s cast time to merged Smoke Assault OR reduce the range to ~450. This skill is too versatile in its current iteration: damage, evade, gap closer, detargetter. It being instant is the most egregious in my opinion.
  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    And yet no one is ever talking about how useless SB is on large scale fights, the actual main point of wvw...
    Let's nerf SB so it will be a useless spec for both roaming and zerg as druid already is.

  • @Hynax.9536 said:
    And yet no one is ever talking about how useless SB is on large scale fights, the actual main point of wvw...
    Let's nerf SB so it will be a useless spec for both roaming and zerg as druid already is.

    So we'll just leave them OP cause of that reason?

    I have an SB and it's hilarious how easy to down pretty much any class with LB2 and still have the ability to escape, block cause of stances and beast abilities.

    The problem with is SB right now is how extremely tanky it is without sacrificing damage.

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    And yet no one is ever talking about how useless SB is on large scale fights, the actual main point of wvw...
    Let's nerf SB so it will be a useless spec for both roaming and zerg as druid already is.

    So we'll just leave them OP cause of that reason?

    I have an SB and it's hilarious how easy to down pretty much any class with LB2 and still have the ability to escape, block cause of stances and beast abilities.

    The problem with is SB right now is how extremely tanky it is without sacrificing damage.

    Don't get me wrong, i'm not against nerfs. But nerfs for the purpose of nerf will not solve the problems rangers have, if we are changing a profession let's at least solve ALL of its problems, and a big problem this profession has is not having at least one decent role in large scale battles. If you just nerf all its damage right now and do nothing else, you just turned a profession completely useless for a game mode, congratulations.
    "But if a profession is OP and we nerf, it will turn into a decent profession." We know this is not how ANET works, if they really aim to nerf ranger, prepare to see it leaving meta for a long time.

  • @Hynax.9536 said:
    And yet no one is ever talking about how useless SB is on large scale fights, the actual main point of wvw...
    Let's nerf SB so it will be a useless spec for both roaming and zerg as druid already is.

    Allow movement during Barrage’s channel. Bam ranger can be in zergs. None of the channeled skills should self root imho.

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    And yet no one is ever talking about how useless SB is on large scale fights, the actual main point of wvw...
    Let's nerf SB so it will be a useless spec for both roaming and zerg as druid already is.

    Allow movement during Barrage’s channel. Bam ranger can be in zergs. None of the channeled skills should self root imho.

    Now we're talking. Movement while channeling Whirling Defense would be a great improvement, maybe remove retaliation and reduce how many stacks of vulnerability are applied to break even.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    And yet no one is ever talking about how useless SB is on large scale fights, the actual main point of wvw...
    Let's nerf SB so it will be a useless spec for both roaming and zerg as druid already is.

    Allow movement during Barrage’s channel. Bam ranger can be in zergs. None of the channeled skills should self root imho.

    So we can move while taking 60 ticks of retal that nuke half our HP and 10 reflect walls/bubles still negate all our auto and rapid fire damage?

    Balance achieved. I can see all the hammer Rev mains swapping over immediately.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    From what I've seen in OP's videos, he has pretty decent mechanics on ranger. The issue with the thread is that his balance perspective comes from WvW where there isn't skill-based matchmaking. Put a competent player on any class and he'll be able to 1v3 in WvW fairly easily. During my streams, I'd roam WvW between ques and look for groups of 3-5 to kill just cause most players don't know what they're doing and even the "good" ones are generally plat 1-ish at best. Now, the REALLY good players in WvW are usually just high rated sPvPers/duelists that are messing around for fun. However, you won't see them much because they're generally quing ranked.

    Also, inflated stats from equipment make it way easier to kill/survive multiple people compared to PvP. But, that's a feature that applies to every class in WvW, not just ranger.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    And yet no one is ever talking about how useless SB is on large scale fights, the actual main point of wvw...
    Let's nerf SB so it will be a useless spec for both roaming and zerg as druid already is.

    Allow movement during Barrage’s channel. Bam ranger can be in zergs. None of the channeled skills should self root imho.

    So we can move while taking 60 ticks of retal that nuke half our HP and 10 reflect walls/bubles still negate all our auto and rapid fire damage?

    Balance achieved. I can see all the hammer Rev mains swapping over immediately.

    You can still cancel the channel. There is also an unblockable utility available.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    And yet no one is ever talking about how useless SB is on large scale fights, the actual main point of wvw...
    Let's nerf SB so it will be a useless spec for both roaming and zerg as druid already is.

    Allow movement during Barrage’s channel. Bam ranger can be in zergs. None of the channeled skills should self root imho.

    So we can move while taking 60 ticks of retal that nuke half our HP and 10 reflect walls/bubles still negate all our auto and rapid fire damage?

    Balance achieved. I can see all the hammer Rev mains swapping over immediately.

    You can still cancel the channel.

    So my choices are take a kitten ton of damage myself or do nothing at all?

    When does this become better than just spamming CoR and Phase Smash into a zerg?

    Keep in mind this is supposedly after we gut the SB's damage mods in the name of "balance"

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    You can still cancel the channel.

    So my choices are take a kitten ton of damage myself or do nothing at all?

    When does this become better than just spamming CoR and Phase Smash into a zerg?

    Keep in mind this is supposedly after we gut the SB's damage mods in the name of "balance"

    I believe LB would not be the most appropriate weapon to use if you are planning to rush with a zerg, thus why i commented about Axe 5. Barrage is actually fine without movement as you pretty much don't need to move in any situation where this skill would be used decently. Retal is still a problem, this boon definitely should be nerfed.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @Hynax.9536 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    You can still cancel the channel.

    So my choices are take a kitten ton of damage myself or do nothing at all?

    When does this become better than just spamming CoR and Phase Smash into a zerg?

    Keep in mind this is supposedly after we gut the SB's damage mods in the name of "balance"

    I believe LB would not be the most appropriate weapon to use if you are planning to rush with a zerg, thus why i commented about Axe 5. Barrage is actually fine without movement as you pretty much don't need to move in any situation where this skill would be used decently. Retal is still a problem, this boon definitely should be nerfed.

    Mobile WD being a good idea in a zerg fight would heavily depend on a multitude of factors.

    Keep in mind that this is, according to some in this thread, would come with a big nerf to our survivability and stat bonuses from SB. Standing in red circle city is much less appealing when I don't have extra health/armor or the damage reduction from dolyak stance.

    Those in turn, depend on what changes other classes receive. Even the current state of Ranger would probably not want to stand in melee range of his target with the damage that WD puts out.

    It's not much different from Whirling axe damage wise and Warriors rarely use that skill in a zerg despite it already being mobile and hitting for a full 5 targets instead of WD's 3 (why is this still even a thing?)

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Substance E.4852 said:
    Mobile WD being a good idea in a zerg fight would heavily depend on a multitude of factors.

    Keep in mind that this is, according to some in this thread, would come with a big nerf to our survivability and stat bonuses from SB. Standing in red circle city is much less appealing when I don't have extra health/armor or the damage reduction from dolyak stance.

    Those in turn, depend on what changes other classes receive. Even the current state of Ranger would probably not want to stand in melee range of his target with the damage that WD puts out.

    It's not much different from Whirling axe damage wise and Warriors rarely use that skill in a zerg despite it already being mobile and hitting for a full 5 targets instead of WD's 3 (why is this still even a thing?)

    Yeah i don't know how much nerf ranger would receive, but when it comes to zerg, red rings should not be a big problem if you have decent healers (mainly because they also would be nerfed, right?).

    I haven't played with warriors but at least seeing the recommended build for zerging with warrior it seems to have better AoEs to use than axe, the same is not true for rangers so having mobility in Wirling Defense would help a lot, and increase tagerts to 5.

  • @Hynax.9536 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:
    Mobile WD being a good idea in a zerg fight would heavily depend on a multitude of factors.

    Keep in mind that this is, according to some in this thread, would come with a big nerf to our survivability and stat bonuses from SB. Standing in red circle city is much less appealing when I don't have extra health/armor or the damage reduction from dolyak stance.

    Those in turn, depend on what changes other classes receive. Even the current state of Ranger would probably not want to stand in melee range of his target with the damage that WD puts out.

    It's not much different from Whirling axe damage wise and Warriors rarely use that skill in a zerg despite it already being mobile and hitting for a full 5 targets instead of WD's 3 (why is this still even a thing?)

    Yeah i don't know how much nerf ranger would receive, but when it comes to zerg, red rings should not be a big problem if you have decent healers (mainly because they also would be nerfed, right?).

    I haven't played with warriors but at least seeing the recommended build for zerging with warrior it seems to have better AoEs to use than axe, the same is not true for rangers so having mobility in Wirling Defense would help a lot, and increase tagerts to 5.

    Recall that is discussion is relative to the Q1 balance patch. Theoretically even boons are on the table, and I expect reflects will be as well.