Perma stealth thief "counter" — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Perma stealth thief "counter"

Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 11, 2020 in WvW

Imagine you have an t3 keep defended with your zerg against an enemy zerg. You see an thief that managed to hide somewhere inside the lord room (for example the desert keeps). It is permanently invisible, cleanse off reveals (and reveal traps) and continue to be permanent stealth until their zerg is ready again.

Can anyone tell me what to do against them or to find them?

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Answers

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020

    I'll leave it to someone else to mention some more creative and fun way to deal with it, however, it is no secret what the two most common ways to deal with or deter (the steaming pile of dung that is...) the Deadeye is.

    Condi bunkers if solo or get friends and run double pocket healers. You know, that other stuff that people in the solo-small world usually whine about B) . That's not to say that the DE's can't adapt to condi but most unspecific builds tend to be a bit low on cleanses so you can push off or drop most/mediocre players even in stealth. If they adapt they are not really roaming and more so targetting you and then you can come up with any other plausible scenario since it could play out in a myriad of ways (eg., they may as well just bring a friend instead of adjusting their build, it's all about ganking you anyway, then you may as well get friends too and just scale it up to 5 where focus setups stops becomming so dominant).

    In fact, that has always been the case all the way back since vanilla. Thieves were a hardcounter to Mesmers back then so most Mesmers ran with a set of dire in their bags at least (if Thieves were too prevalent) while double support and tripple whatever has been a staple for most larger organized gameplay since forever, even if not required.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Imagine you have an t3 keep defended with your zerg against an enemy zerg. You see an thief that managed to hide somewhere inside the lord room (for example the desert keeps). It is permanently invisible, cleanse off reveals (and reveal traps) and continue to be permanent stealth until their zerg is ready again.

    Can anyone tell me what to do against them or to find them?

    if youre alone trying to find and kill him u better just leave ur wasting ur time..

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you are alone, just bring a golem to lords, he can't kill you at lords if he shows himself anyway unless one is less able in the skills department. Then when you bring the golem in there, you can just jump in and out of it and waste their time. If he's going to waste his time being in stealth, he's not going to cap anything.

  • cyberzombie.7348cyberzombie.7348 Member ✭✭
    edited January 12, 2020

    When I had to hunt a thief in smc one strategy I developed is to become a permastealth thief to get the sneak on them. Once you figured out where they are, sneak up to the closest clue of their location and throw a target painter do not rely on the traps. Most likely they'll know the placements. Advise others to just act natural and try not to raise alarm until they are marked, If the thief knows its being hunted they'll just move somewhere else out of sight. Now after they're marked take them down asap, If they try to escape, have one chase them out of inner and the rest stay back to camp their portal.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ignore them and wait for the keep to flip, then take it back 5 mins later. Then come to the forums and post about it and wait a very long time for an answer because anet loves terribad stealth mechanics.

    Or keep chasing them around providing them a laugh I guess.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Imagine you have an t3 keep defended with your zerg against an enemy zerg. You see an thief that managed to hide somewhere inside the lord room (for example the desert keeps). It is permanently invisible, cleanse off reveals (and reveal traps) and continue to be permanent stealth until their zerg is ready again.

    Can anyone tell me what to do against them or to find them?

    Yes. Log off. It's a 'feature' ....

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How often though are your t3's being flipped by thieves? I don't think it's widespread and it's probably the same 1 thief being annoying if anything and this is in the minority of things to be honest. If your zerg was there while the thief was still inside, you have to let them know, and then it's on them if they don't clear it out. IMO the thief has every right to be there, and it's the defenders job to ensure no mes or thief gets planted when there are breaches. My advice is, if one cannot take them out or deal with them alone, if no one is willing to help you, just let them flip it or portal their team in. Don't let it be a burden on your mind.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heibi.4251 said:

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    I'll leave it to someone else to mention some more creative and fun way to deal with it, however, it is no secret what the two most common ways to deal with or deter (the steaming pile of dung that is...) the Deadeye is.

    Condi bunkers if solo or get friends and run double pocket healers. You know, that other stuff that people in the solo-small world usually whine about B) . That's not to say that the DE's can't adapt to condi but most unspecific builds tend to be a bit low on cleanses so you can push off or drop most/mediocre players even in stealth. If they adapt they are not really roaming and more so targetting you and then you can come up with any other plausible scenario since it could play out in a myriad of ways (eg., they may as well just bring a friend instead of adjusting their build, it's all about ganking you anyway, then you may as well get friends too and just scale it up to 5 where focus setups stops becomming so dominant).

    In fact, that has always been the case all the way back since vanilla. Thieves were a hardcounter to Mesmers back then so most Mesmers ran with a set of dire in their bags at least (if Thieves were too prevalent) while double support and tripple whatever has been a staple for most larger organized gameplay since forever, even if not required.

    Of course it really wouldn't matter too much if ANET hadn't gone insane and given thieves the ability to portal people in. You could usually ignore them. Now killing them actually matters. On the "balance" patch I suggest they limit the portal to ONE person(the thief).

    Speaking as a thief that hides in towers whenever he gets the chance; I'd be totally fine with this. I'm still kinda surprised they gave us a team portal in the first place, since all we wanted was for shadow trap to be reliable.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    I'll leave it to someone else to mention some more creative and fun way to deal with it, however, it is no secret what the two most common ways to deal with or deter (the steaming pile of dung that is...) the Deadeye is.

    Condi bunkers if solo or get friends and run double pocket healers. You know, that other stuff that people in the solo-small world usually whine about B) . That's not to say that the DE's can't adapt to condi but most unspecific builds tend to be a bit low on cleanses so you can push off or drop most/mediocre players even in stealth. If they adapt they are not really roaming and more so targetting you and then you can come up with any other plausible scenario since it could play out in a myriad of ways (eg., they may as well just bring a friend instead of adjusting their build, it's all about ganking you anyway, then you may as well get friends too and just scale it up to 5 where focus setups stops becomming so dominant).

    In fact, that has always been the case all the way back since vanilla. Thieves were a hardcounter to Mesmers back then so most Mesmers ran with a set of dire in their bags at least (if Thieves were too prevalent) while double support and tripple whatever has been a staple for most larger organized gameplay since forever, even if not required.

    Generally good advice here. I only have one good attempt at capping a tower after sneaking in as once I've been found the odds of getting the cap drop significantly. After that I just troll and see how many kills I can get before I'm forced out, so with that in mind placing a golem in the capture circle is by far the most effective of the tactics you suggested since it totally shuts down any attempt to cap while also making it hard to kill you before your teammates force me to leave.

    Going condi bunker or support is less effective if you're solo or low numbers as the build I use for capping towers is designed for that specifically, and is pretty bad vs other players. So if my reaction to you engaging me as I try to cap is going to be to get ooc and swap build to counter yours, you'd be better off being aggressive from the start and trying to land a target painter to mark me before I can move away. Once marked I can't easily get ooc to swap to a better build so my choices are pretty much leave or die. If you have any form of stealth then this should always be your opening move when you see a thief trying to cap something.

    In general, just remember that thief is a class that relies on high burst out of stealth. Any tactic that relies on waiting for me to attack is probably going to be a bad move for you, so be aggressive and try to limit my options.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2020

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Ignore them and wait for the keep to flip, then take it back 5 mins later. Then come to the forums and post about it and wait a very long time for an answer because anet loves terribad stealth mechanics.

    Or keep chasing them around providing them a laugh I guess.

    just within 2 minutes, i was +1 shotted over 18k with Death Judgment. Yes the same Toxic Death Judgment since guild wars 2 beta in addition to 8 years of it. Not only that Anet loves terrible stealth mechanics, they find absolutely nothing wrong with Toxic mechanics as well
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Judgment


    'Death's Judgement (Rifle #4) ranges anywhere between 42k - 60k per shot so a pretty large spread'

    If Thief Profession is either redesigned from the ground-up or be completely deleted from the game, expect Nothing from the patch

  • easiest way is to have about 5 dmg classes there, with cc and quick big burst or aoe dmg. deadeyes suck at fighting groups, unless you sleep on them and the others just panic that is. with enough dmg around you can even use reveal skills to see where they are for some seconds, a healer also defeats their plan to pew pew kill.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    If you are alone, just bring a golem to lords, he can't kill you at lords if he shows himself anyway unless one is less able in the skills department. Then when you bring the golem in there, you can just jump in and out of it and waste their time. If he's going to waste his time being in stealth, he's not going to cap anything.

    to u and to all other persons that answered:

    the point is that the thief keeps invisible so long and brings the whole zerg back in, cuz nobody finds it

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    If you are alone, just bring a golem to lords, he can't kill you at lords if he shows himself anyway unless one is less able in the skills department. Then when you bring the golem in there, you can just jump in and out of it and waste their time. If he's going to waste his time being in stealth, he's not going to cap anything.

    to u and to all other persons that answered:

    the point is that the thief keeps invisible so long and brings the whole zerg back in, cuz nobody finds it

    Nothing much you can do unless you catch him with a stealth trap and have a few high mobility / high burst classes with you.
    Soulbeasts/Deadeyes/Mirages/Heralds are your best bet to getting them once they are revealed for the short duration.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD -> TC -> Mag -> GOM -> AR -> JQ

  • @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Ignore them and wait for the keep to flip, then take it back 5 mins later. Then come to the forums and post about it and wait a very long time for an answer because anet loves terribad stealth mechanics.

    Or keep chasing them around providing them a laugh I guess.

    just within 2 minutes, i was +1 shotted over 18k with Death Judgment. Yes the same Toxic Death Judgment since guild wars 2 beta in addition to 8 years of it. Not only that Anet loves terrible stealth mechanics, they find absolutely nothing wrong with Toxic mechanics as well
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Judgment


    'Death's Judgement (Rifle #4) ranges anywhere between 42k - 60k per shot so a pretty large spread'

    If Thief Profession is either redesigned from the ground-up or be completely deleted from the game, expect Nothing from the patch

    What the heck are you on about? Rifle 4 is a backwards 600 tele, or a smokescreen in kneel stance. . .

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JonnyForgotten.4276 said:
    What the heck are you on about? Rifle 4 is a backwards 600 tele, or a smokescreen in kneel stance. . .

    Yeah it's an old video from before some of the skills changes and reworks, so it's showing the kneeling dj on rifle 4. I also don't understand the reason for the video, as it's showing a golem and nothing to do with a wvw scenario.

  • @Virdo.1540 said:
    to u and to all other persons that answered:

    the point is that the thief keeps invisible so long and brings the whole zerg back in, cuz nobody finds it

    Using a permastealth theif with target painters is the most reliable way I know to flush them out, but if you're having trouble tracking them, I have only two tips:

    1: Keep you eyes open and ears on the ground for any smoke fields or damage to npcs or structures (i.e. cannons and oil pots)
    2: If you don't see or hear any smoke for at least 12-16 sec most likely they're sealthing by the walls since using CnD on walls doesn't reveal

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2020

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    easiest way is to have about 5 dmg classes there, with cc and quick big burst or aoe dmg. deadeyes suck at fighting groups, unless you sleep on them and the others just panic that is. with enough dmg around you can even use reveal skills to see where they are for some seconds, a healer also defeats their plan to pew pew kill.

    Bring 5 damage classes with cc and aoe to kill one permastealth deadeye in a keep, sounds pretty balanced. After the balance patch probably need to bring 10 damage classes with cc and aoes.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    There is very little a thief can do.

    Don't waste yur time and join the zerg to pressure elsewhere.

    Drop a few Golems to prevent "surprise" backdoors because there is no way a zerg of any size can "instantly kill" the Lord/Golems, so these can be put in place for defenders to stall.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • in and against full zergs or blobs maybe; realistic, many servers have tons of thieves, rangers, mesmers around - those classes that aren't standard equipment for larger scale fights. however, they get annoying if you stand with 8 against 20 of those dpsclasses...

    what a thief can do or not also depends on the player. this permastealth and brutal dps is surely a thing., and i never said that thieves are not somehow broken. you have to nearly oneshot them, and that is really not easy unless u outnumber the thief heavily.

    amongst the easiest farm is playing a thief, and you can use his method of picking off single targets all the time; while zerg battles require a zerg first, which is only happening around the weekend consistently, otherwise rather random. in t1 servers we have like every other day some zerg, might be worse for low-population servers.

    way more often than that it's rather medium-scale player groups that fight each other, usually in uneven numbers - like in a 9 vs 15 some thiefs or other dps do great work, maybe more than meta classes would have done. i'm on purpose using this kind of relations, because that's how fights often look.

    you cannot always spot how many people are around, so if one spots a group and calls "10 red inc", where for example you know 6 ppl could be enough to kill them, 2-3 stealthing thieves could turn the tide - that's why thieves are that good and why permastealth is really a questionable thing.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2020

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    If you are alone, just bring a golem to lords, he can't kill you at lords if he shows himself anyway unless one is less able in the skills department. Then when you bring the golem in there, you can just jump in and out of it and waste their time. If he's going to waste his time being in stealth, he's not going to cap anything.

    Just to clarify the issue: this thread is not about thieves soloing lords.

    Did you notice the thief traps rework? Thieves have a portal like mesmers now.

    The thief isn't going to oneshot you so that you have to hide in the golem.

    The thief will run full bunker gear with perma stealth and portal to bring back the zerg in.

    @OP: You can't kill him.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Just to clarify the issue: this thread is not about thieves soloing lords.

    It was more about the "what to do" thing they asked, and they also mentioned an example of the thief being in the lord room:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    You see an thief that managed to hide somewhere inside the lord room
    Can anyone tell me what to do against them or to find them?

    How do you know if the thief is running bunker or not though? We can only assume but not know exactly. Thief portal is limited to 5ppl in wvw so it won't really be a zerg, until they portal someone else who can portal more in like a mesmer but by then as per this example, the home zerg should already be alerted since there is someone already keeping an eye on the thief. Depending on which structure they are in will depend on whether they can get that portal on inner to anyone outside of outer as well. Almost all of the time I've run into thieves hiding in structures they were glass, at least they were when I killed them with only the minor few being condi deadeye, can't say I've really run into any bunker ones yet, most are going to be running sa/trickery/de unless they go acro somewhere. There are probably some running bunker or have a template they can switch to for moments like these though but I have not run into them so far. The servers I'm on don't let thieves or mes stay in long, they are like rabid dogs and don't give them a chance hehe. I think it is probably more prevalent in lower population hours since it's easier not to get noticed, but ppt zergs do tend to ignore these things in busy hours so there's always a chance that thief or mes will tuck themselves somewhere.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2020

    Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah the interrupts are invaluable, especially when you're dealing with shadow melds and it can put them dead in the water. Many de's I run across tend to use it casually to keep up their stealth or break a reveal too often, and it inevitably leads to their death if you can get in that one good interrupt.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

    its not like all professions are that quick to land 2 hits on them

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

    its not like all professions are that quick to land 2 hits on them

    Why not? What cant

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

    its not like all professions are that quick to land 2 hits on them

    Why not? What cant

    against good thiefs, nobody could

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Revealing the theif isn't the problem, its finding them to reveal (depending if they have shadow step up) they mostly die with in seconds of reveal. People say they can just clear reveal... sure that's why you immediately interrupt cc them. I cought a lot of thieves with reveal then bulls charge using "sight beyond sight!". People reveal and dont bother to interrupt shadow melds and I am sure every class has at least 1 cc/interrupt that can be used relatively quickly

    its not like all professions are that quick to land 2 hits on them

    Why not? What cant

    against good thiefs, nobody could

    Alone in the open? probably not but this is inside a keep hiding ready to portal enemy baddies in so I am sure there are many others around

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You probably want to call a specialist 1-shot ranger and multiple Stealth Traps. Ranger can reveal it for 6s with Sic Em (it's OP so that Rangers can counter thieves). Even then, the Ranger could easily get taken out by a good thief.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Heibi.4251Heibi.4251 Member ✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    You probably want to call a specialist 1-shot ranger and multiple Stealth Traps. Ranger can reveal it for 6s with Sic Em (it's OP so that Rangers can counter thieves). Even then, the Ranger could easily get taken out by a good thief.

    You have to have a target for Sic'em to work. It does not reveal - Guildwiki "Cannot be used without a valid targeted enemy." It keeps them from stealthing for 6 seconds AFTER they've been revealed. But once you ave a thief targeted you interrupt and rapid fire(doesn't lose lock once it is activated on a target) them to death.

    Henge of Denravi Commander
    CA/CH/HOD/AIR

  • Best ways to track one down is mount up and use "sniff", area it covers is pretty large, look at the mini map, it will make a sound and add a dot of their location on the mini map, you then go to that location and throw a marking trap on them.

    The problem however is not finding them, but killing them. Stealth stacking they can have only a few seconds of being out of stealth and due to how the game engine works, they can be getting ready to stack stealth by the time they render on your screen. The other issue comes from the fact in this situation, they do NOT want to fight and will often swap to a build that is full mobility/stealth. Because of this, even after hitting them with the trap, they will be 2,000+ range away waiting for marked to go away (or remove in the case of DE) and restealth by the time you catch up. It's really not that hard to do. If they stand and fight, it's an easy kill for me, however they never do this, as they are the new mesmer for porting.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Best ways to track one down is mount up and use "sniff", area it covers is pretty large, look at the mini map, it will make a sound and add a dot of their location on the mini map, you then go to that location and throw a marking trap on them.

    The problem however is not finding them, but killing them. Stealth stacking they can have only a few seconds of being out of stealth and due to how the game engine works, they can be getting ready to stack stealth by the time they render on your screen. The other issue comes from the fact in this situation, they do NOT want to fight and will often swap to a build that is full mobility/stealth. Because of this, even after hitting them with the trap, they will be 2,000+ range away waiting for marked to go away (or remove in the case of DE) and restealth by the time you catch up. It's really not that hard to do. If they stand and fight, it's an easy kill for me, however they never do this, as they are the new mesmer for porting.

    Sniff doesn't work on players in stealth. =P

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Best ways to track one down is mount up and use "sniff", area it covers is pretty large, look at the mini map, it will make a sound and add a dot of their location on the mini map, you then go to that location and throw a marking trap on them.

    The problem however is not finding them, but killing them. Stealth stacking they can have only a few seconds of being out of stealth and due to how the game engine works, they can be getting ready to stack stealth by the time they render on your screen. The other issue comes from the fact in this situation, they do NOT want to fight and will often swap to a build that is full mobility/stealth. Because of this, even after hitting them with the trap, they will be 2,000+ range away waiting for marked to go away (or remove in the case of DE) and restealth by the time you catch up. It's really not that hard to do. If they stand and fight, it's an easy kill for me, however they never do this, as they are the new mesmer for porting.

    Sniff doesn't work on players in stealth. =P

    yep, and reveal from traps isnt really working

  • It would be nice to be able to build for hunting stealthed enemies. I'd buy and dedicate template slots to that.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    I'll leave it to someone else to mention some more creative and fun way to deal with it, however, it is no secret what the two most common ways to deal with or deter (the steaming pile of dung that is...) the Deadeye is.

    Condi bunkers if solo or get friends and run double pocket healers. You know, that other stuff that people in the solo-small world usually whine about B) . That's not to say that the DE's can't adapt to condi but most unspecific builds tend to be a bit low on cleanses so you can push off or drop most/mediocre players even in stealth. If they adapt they are not really roaming and more so targetting you and then you can come up with any other plausible scenario since it could play out in a myriad of ways (eg., they may as well just bring a friend instead of adjusting their build, it's all about ganking you anyway, then you may as well get friends too and just scale it up to 5 where focus setups stops becomming so dominant).

    In fact, that has always been the case all the way back since vanilla. Thieves were a hardcounter to Mesmers back then so most Mesmers ran with a set of dire in their bags at least (if Thieves were too prevalent) while double support and tripple whatever has been a staple for most larger organized gameplay since forever, even if not required.

    condi bunkers are terrible, since thiefs can cleanse everything with every of their dozends of back ports

  • Well honestly all wvw npcs should have reveal mechanics. Like the sentries. And show your location on map. Unless thats already a thing. But yeah.

  • @Clownmug.8357 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:
    Best ways to track one down is mount up and use "sniff", area it covers is pretty large, look at the mini map, it will make a sound and add a dot of their location on the mini map, you then go to that location and throw a marking trap on them.

    The problem however is not finding them, but killing them. Stealth stacking they can have only a few seconds of being out of stealth and due to how the game engine works, they can be getting ready to stack stealth by the time they render on your screen. The other issue comes from the fact in this situation, they do NOT want to fight and will often swap to a build that is full mobility/stealth. Because of this, even after hitting them with the trap, they will be 2,000+ range away waiting for marked to go away (or remove in the case of DE) and restealth by the time you catch up. It's really not that hard to do. If they stand and fight, it's an easy kill for me, however they never do this, as they are the new mesmer for porting.

    Sniff doesn't work on players in stealth. =P

    You have to think like the thief, in most cases they do not stealth 100% of the time, they stealth, LOS and wait, if they see someone coming they will stealth, as stacking stealth makes noise and can give away position. Sniff in say middle Garri will cover most of the structure often times pinging the thief/mes, this works very often for me, they will stack stealth when they see you moving their direction, which is why you toss a reveal. If they stealthed and moved, place a normal stealth trap as they will probably go back once you move locations, by this time sniff should almost be off CD, which you can use again to see where they moved to and push them to return to the first spot.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • intox.6347intox.6347 Member ✭✭✭

    If i run one of my DE permastealth (one is condi dire tank and one zerk ) i cant be killed if i try hard.... once i get bored and start being lazy ... its chance to catch me.
    Why doing it ? Keep being attacked, no wp. Chance to portal in more ppl for takeover. Or just just keep ppl busy (sometimes more than 15 try to hunt...)
    Sometimes ppl just get bored trying to hunt... and if we are 2-3 in... we can take it.. (fast template change helps alot )

    From whole experience with thief for long time... it get easier and easier to permastealth ... also templates helps a lot that i have 4 different eq and 5 builds to switch on run... hope they will look on it... but dont think so.

    Multiclass WvW player
    Theorycrafted builds tester

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @intox.6347 said:
    If i run one of my DE permastealth (one is condi dire tank and one zerk ) ** i cant be killed if i try hard**.... once i get bored and start being lazy ... its chance to catch me.
    Why doing it ? Keep being attacked, no wp. Chance to portal in more ppl for takeover. Or just just keep ppl busy (sometimes more than 15 try to hunt...)
    Sometimes ppl just get bored trying to hunt... and if we are 2-3 in... we can take it.. (fast template change helps alot )

    From whole experience with thief for long time... it get easier and easier to permastealth ... also templates helps a lot that i have 4 different eq and 5 builds to switch on run... hope they will look on it... but dont think so.

    A lot of that comes down to most people just not caring anymore and too many people don't take cc's or any kind of stops. The window for prime time action is shorter and some clown can bunny hop around your keep to try to lure people into a chase but no one wants to burn through whatever time they get anymore.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • @kash.9213 said:

    @intox.6347 said:
    If i run one of my DE permastealth (one is condi dire tank and one zerk ) ** i cant be killed if i try hard**.... once i get bored and start being lazy ... its chance to catch me.
    Why doing it ? Keep being attacked, no wp. Chance to portal in more ppl for takeover. Or just just keep ppl busy (sometimes more than 15 try to hunt...)
    Sometimes ppl just get bored trying to hunt... and if we are 2-3 in... we can take it.. (fast template change helps alot )

    From whole experience with thief for long time... it get easier and easier to permastealth ... also templates helps a lot that i have 4 different eq and 5 builds to switch on run... hope they will look on it... but dont think so.

    A lot of that comes down to most people just not caring anymore and too many people don't take cc's or any kind of stops. The window for prime time action is shorter and some clown can bunny hop around your keep to try to lure people into a chase but no one wants to burn through whatever time they get anymore.

    ^^This. Got better things to do that chase some little kitten thief around the castle or keep. The time I waste trying to dispose of him is time where I'm not earning any xp, badges, or loot bags, or fun. I'll go fight people that actually want to fight and are not going to run and hide every other second.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Ignore them and wait for the keep to flip, then take it back 5 mins later. Then come to the forums and post about it and wait a very long time for an answer because anet loves terribad stealth mechanics.

    Or keep chasing them around providing them a laugh I guess.

    just within 2 minutes, i was +1 shotted over 18k with Death Judgment. Yes the same Toxic Death Judgment since guild wars 2 beta in addition to 8 years of it. Not only that Anet loves terrible stealth mechanics, they find absolutely nothing wrong with Toxic mechanics as well
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Judgment


    'Death's Judgement (Rifle #4) ranges anywhere between 42k - 60k per shot so a pretty large spread'

    If Thief Profession is either redesigned from the ground-up or be completely deleted from the game, expect Nothing from the patch

    So not only has death's judgement, a skill on rifle, been around for the 8 years since beta, but it's also on rifle 4 so it's a spammable 42-60 shot in WvW as well as PvE? It's a good job that none of that is even remotely true, otherwise it would definitely need nerfs.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Ignore them and wait for the keep to flip, then take it back 5 mins later. Then come to the forums and post about it and wait a very long time for an answer because anet loves terribad stealth mechanics.

    Or keep chasing them around providing them a laugh I guess.

    just within 2 minutes, i was +1 shotted over 18k with Death Judgment. Yes the same Toxic Death Judgment since guild wars 2 beta in addition to 8 years of it. Not only that Anet loves terrible stealth mechanics, they find absolutely nothing wrong with Toxic mechanics as well
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Judgment


    'Death's Judgement (Rifle #4) ranges anywhere between 42k - 60k per shot so a pretty large spread'

    If Thief Profession is either redesigned from the ground-up or be completely deleted from the game, expect Nothing from the patch

    So not only has death's judgement, a skill on rifle, been around for the 8 years since beta, but it's also on rifle 4 so it's a spammable 42-60 shot in WvW as well as PvE? It's a good job that none of that is even remotely true, otherwise it would definitely need nerfs.

    Ive stopped paying attention to that poster. They have a very specific agenda.

    Thank You for the {MEME}