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  • Rym.1469Rym.1469 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    To add to the previous comment of mine:

    1. I guess it applies to all traits like Dread - situational damage increases that don't last very long shouldn't get the nerf bat. You are double nerfing it, first with coefficients and then the trait itself.
    2. I'd prefer for Executioner's Scythe to lose the CC and keep the damage. Keep chill and make the Execute damage part more situational. I think it just feels better as big hitter.
    3. With the good Doom change, could the balance team just retire the concept of Scourge in PvP and give us Terrormancer meta back? Thank you. I miss my OG necro. Perhaps change Terror so it dramatically increases the damage of caster's other conditions on the target rather than doing the damage itself (similar to Dread). And it could temporarily prevent/punish cleanses.

    Yeah, I stream once in a blue moon.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    I think it'd be better if they prioritized damage over CC on weapon skills.
    Remove the CC on weapon skills across the board and give back the damage.
    The CC from traits and utilities already is significantly higher than what is healthy for a game mode that is based on players interacting with each other.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I think it'd be better if they prioritized damage over CC on weapon skills.
    Remove the CC on weapon skills across the board and give back the damage.
    The CC from traits and utilities already is significantly higher than what is healthy for a game mode that is based on players interacting with each other.

    this really depends on the class, if you lower ammout of CC how in the kitten nugget do you stun thief?
    he can remove stuns 3 times.
    How do you stun fb with mantra? he just removes it 3 times while getting stab.
    People have ALOT of stun removing tools, and that doesnt even count in the fact that you can dodge CC.

  • @Yet Another Imda Smurf xD.8236 said:
    increase the initiative cost of Shortbow 5.

    no. you can have nerfs to shadow arts siphoning.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Xar.6279 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    I think this is the end of sPvP for me. I am for curbing power creep a bit, but reducing CD on everything, lowering the damage on everything, seems like random number generator. Some skills has the CDs they had and deal the damage/heal they do for a reason. Not to mention, there is no way in hell to know what skill does how much damage/heal and how much CD on my main class WHEN EVERY SINGLE SKILL IS DIFFERENT. Forget the other 8 classes.

    This is a different game. One that seems a derivative of the existing one, confusing and far less interesting. I am already on the fence on GW2 as a whole, sPvP was one of the few remaining anchors that keeps me attached to the game. I think this it for this. And with PvE changes boarding on pathetic, I think this is it for the game.

    git gud

    What does this mean?! You think this is hello kitty I am playing sPvP for the first time?! I am arguing that splitting every skill and trait damage is dumb. If you do not have anything to add to the conversation then s*************.

    "Git Gud." "Just Dodge." "Play a different class." Part of the reason PvP queue times are so long - cause no one wants to play with that trashy attitude.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Yet Another Imda Smurf xD.8236 said:
    increase the initiative cost of Shortbow 5.

    no. you can have nerfs to shadow arts siphoning.

    Hmm I might try to make a pacifist thief after the patch, and just run between nodes. I wonder how far I can go in ranking that way xd

  • dubidubidubidu.5308dubidubidubidu.5308 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2020

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Nothing seemed too outstanding to comment on, until I got to this: Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes = Woah woah! Is that... necessary? I mean a lot of people with long time aggression vs. Mirage are probably thinking "YEAH IT DESERVES IT. SCREW MIRAGE" but really guys, without the ability to double dodge roll when needed, the Mirage is going to frequently be caught in the kinds of bursting that it cannot avoid. I think Arenanet needs to seriously reconsider this very heavy handed nerf.

    I think that is the trade off, they can dodge while CCed but they only have one dodge bar. It sounds a lot like something that would be in Guild Wars 1. This patch is awesome.

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Jazz.4639 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Mesmer

    • Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes

    @Odik.4587 said:
    @Jazz.4639

    im not sure i understand what you want to do to mirage cloak (now reduce endurance by 50??), does that mean as daredevil has 3 dodges mirages now only have one???oO also why you want to reduce evade uptime on a spec that is build around doing things with his dodges and has already less dodges than most other classes in current state? doesnt rly make sense to me. the times mirage (not using chaosline) can dodge too often are already over. better reduce vigor duration given by chaosline.

    That was exactly thoughts but its not likely they understand what they are doing or would change it.
    F for fellow mesmer players (if any left) , the first chrono, now mirage (especially for power ones).

    no they cant be serious with that, some early april fool or something? that cant be real, it makes no sense at all... ahahahaha … just no! esp now im forced to dodge no matter if i need to just to not waste endurance reggen when my one dodge bar is full? how does that add skill need and more active gameplay? it is the absolute opposite… dumbed down we go (nick cave) yeah yeah yeah…
    NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (cant believe….)

    need to sleep but im actually shocked…. crying and laughing at same time

    I'm sorry to hear this but I absolutely understand you and your reaction. I couldnt believe as well that this some sort of april fools. Many nerfs are nerfs for the sake of nerfing(that didnt deserve to get even touched in the first place), some stuff that must get a nerf got a free pass or almost not nerfed (L.rod, warrior GS F1, probably more becase it was 3 AM for me and I did read only warrior, also FC got a buff...?).
    About mirage evade... 1 dodge when daredevil it at 3... Chrono is still would be frustrating,clunky and unfun to play (they did nothing to improve it at any way). Someone dont want to see any mesmers out there.

    this one dodge i s so bad, makes no sense. im still shocked. if you want to nerf dmg mirage can do with ambushes then nerf the dmg from ambushes maybe? why overkilling with a change that totally contradicts the whole nature of the spec? how am i supposed to dodge offensive and tactical for a reactive clone daze interrupt on sword for example with only one dodge? am i supposed to waste a dodge to not waste endurance reggen and vigor when my one dodge bar is full? how am i supposed to survive on a sqishy power shatter build with only one dodge? ppl cry about mirage being able to dodge while stunned and now this change forces me into not dodging cc anymore because then i have no other dodge for the follow up dmg will come after. im lit forced into using low skill ceiling lines like chaos with way more passive sustain to compensate the overkill in active defense now. i dont mind nerfs at all, i rly dont, as long as these nerfs dont kill skillneed from the class. but this one does! gg dumbed down (and unplayable on skillful power builds at least) spec. well at least there is no need to buy any expansion as power mes only player i guess…

    i rly dont mind any other changes planned for mesmer, they at least seems into line with the overall nerf goal and with nerfs on other classes, and they do not delete skillceiling or skillfloor. but this one change is just an overkill and contradicts the goal of making mirage more skilled, ist quite the opposite.

    YT/Tw PvP WvW Power Mes Guides/ Gameplay https://tinyurl.com/njhmjsh
    my neighbours listen to awesome music... whether they want it or not

  • Impossible to comment, of course. Needs a lot of testing. But forums gonna complain, that's how the forums roll, I guess.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    Guess classes with disengage potential become unkillable when played properly. Not that thief is already ...

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭

    Very interesting changes and very glad to finally see such a shift (after years and years of buffing and kitten everything up just so the casual plebs won't quit because "aww my main class has a 0.1% damage output reduction, it's completely dead now Q_Q").
    I just really really hope it's not already way too late and PvP/WvW players will return or new PvP players will come (me included - I don't want to return to a dead game mode)

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Yet Another Imda Smurf xD.8236 said:
    increase the initiative cost of Shortbow 5.

    no. you can have nerfs to shadow arts siphoning.

    Hmm I might try to make a pacifist thief after the patch, and just run between nodes. I wonder how far I can go in ranking that way xd

    That's basically how people were insisting we play for the past 4 years so go for it.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Test of Faith: Increased power coefficient of passthrough attack from 2.52 to 2.8. Reduced power coefficient of initial attack from 1.4 to 0.1. Reduced protection duration from 6 seconds to 2 seconds. Reduced cripple duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds

    You might want to take a look at Deflecting_Shot. Tooltip is longer than my arm (massive damage, blocks missiles, blinds, finisher, unblockable + CC and stability with trait) with a very low CD (10 s ...) and cast time (1/4s ??).
    I can guarantee that, paired with Test of Faith buff and global heal nerfs, this skill will plague PvP.
    At least remove unblockable, so there is slight counter to it.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I think it'd be better if they prioritized damage over CC on weapon skills.
    Remove the CC on weapon skills across the board and give back the damage.
    The CC from traits and utilities already is significantly higher than what is healthy for a game mode that is based on players interacting with each other.

    this really depends on the class, if you lower ammout of CC how in the kitten nugget do you stun thief?
    he can remove stuns 3 times.
    How do you stun fb with mantra? he just removes it 3 times while getting stab.
    People have ALOT of stun removing tools, and that doesnt even count in the fact that you can dodge CC.

    Thief's runaway potential is disgusting and practically without counterplay, it should have been toned down by at least 50%.
    That being barely nicked (if at all) by this patch is the only thing bothering me.
    But Stability (sadly) is a common boon, so it can be corrupted or stolen. It has sufficient amount of counterplay.
    Just imagine how build variety could improve if people wouldn't be so dependent on Stun breaks anymore.

    To me, this patch once again proves, Arenanet doesn't make balance patches, they make patches that merely apply changes for the sake of changes.>

    @aelska.4609 said:

    Test of Faith: Increased power coefficient of passthrough attack from 2.52 to 2.8. Reduced power coefficient of initial attack from 1.4 to 0.1. Reduced protection duration from 6 seconds to 2 seconds. Reduced cripple duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds

    You might want to take a look at Deflecting_Shot. Tooltip is longer than my arm (massive damage, blocks missiles, blinds, finisher, unblockable + CC and stability with trait) with a very low CD (10 s ...) and cast time (1/4s ??).
    I can guarantee that, paired with Test of Faith buff and global heal nerfs, this skill will plague PvP.
    At least remove unblockable, so there is slight counter to it.

    I think the cast time is enough counter built into the skill itself.
    I already prefer the current version with damage and the CC on trait to the future version of no damage but CC built in.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Legen..
    Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes
    dary..

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @aelska.4609 said:

    Test of Faith: Increased power coefficient of passthrough attack from 2.52 to 2.8. Reduced power coefficient of initial attack from 1.4 to 0.1. Reduced protection duration from 6 seconds to 2 seconds. Reduced cripple duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds

    You might want to take a look at Deflecting_Shot. Tooltip is longer than my arm (massive damage, blocks missiles, blinds, finisher, unblockable + CC and stability with trait) with a very low CD (10 s ...) and cast time (1/4s ??).
    I can guarantee that, paired with Test of Faith buff and global heal nerfs, this skill will plague PvP.
    At least remove unblockable, so there is slight counter to it.

    I think the cast time is enough counter built into the skill itself.
    I already prefer the current version with damage and the CC on trait to the future version of no damage but CC built in.

    True that 1/4s cast time, that can be fired backwards, gives all the time to the opponent to "preventively dodge" the skill, because that's what good opponents do. And it is perfectly balanced (and will even be more balanced after this balance patch) considering how risky it for the DH to use this skill with the low rewards associated to it (we are only speaking about damage, blind, missiles blocks, and CC after all). Imagine if the DH misses to land this skill, he'll have to wait 10s before using it again !!

    I don't even know how you can defend this very cheesy skill.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    Let me get this straight... Everything is nerfed, but Engi kits are not nerfed...

    Core Engi got indirect buffs?!

  • Xervite.5493Xervite.5493 Member ✭✭✭

    Compared to how gs was nerfed on other professions soulbeast dint get hit enough, needs more tbh.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Been kind of reading through alot of things here this morning

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    • Executioner's Scythe: Reduced power coefficients from 2.0/2.6/3.2 to 0.01/0.015/0.02 (Above 50%/Below 50%/Below 25%). Increased stun duration from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds

    I have to agree with a few other people here.
    Why not just remove the damage mod from this skill entirely and allow it to hit up to 3 people in its aoe? the increase to above and below values are kind of wasted now.

    Or making it increase the stun duration with the hp values

    Is it because this would require global change or?????

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So many changes at once, I cannot accurately judge how powerlevel of builds relative to each other will change, so I won't comment on that much.
    However: removal of so many amulets.... why? We are getting dangerously low on customization options already, I don't like it.
    Also, many traits got a 300 second cooldown... just outright delete them and replace them with something else at this point. You still have nearly a month untill the patch hits.
    And in general, 1 second might, 1 second torment, 1 second anything thats not self applied stability is utterly pointless. It might aswell not be there at all. Why bloat the skill descriptions with such no-effect stuff?
    And mirage with only 1 dodge, that cannot possibly work. I mean I'm glad you're deleting the spec from pvp, but werent you supposed to balance it instead?

  • sata.6321sata.6321 Member ✭✭

    The lack of dumpstering symbolbrand is scaring me here, I'd like to see condi duration go down on justice, or something that makes it less oppressive.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭

    smoke screen still gonna be lol lvl
    same for escapists fortitude.. 1s icd ..
    power dmg barely touched.. time to reroll

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    In this thread: Lots of people who only read the section for "their" class going "kitten this will be unplayable"....... having not read all the nerfs to the other classes.

    Basically everything across the board got nerfed ~30%.

    I like.

    Is that something supposedly good? Also, if we nerf everything by 30% across the board, that leaves everything exactly where is, with just slower game play. Is this good? If a skill that no one uses gets 30% nerf, is that good?

    The whole kitten point of this "PvP" patch was to take underwhelming skills and builds and make them better, while shaving boon duration and some CC, and lowering the potency of some over performing builds. Instead it turned in another vanity project for Anet that most surely will leave everything a kitten mess, and is not needed to begin with. this is almost a waste of 6 month with very limited class balance changes for this, that will leave will make PvP a mess for another few month. And create massive accessibility wall for anyone whole is not super invested in PvP.

    When Ben said 700+ splits, I was like: "wow, some skilled Anet dev(s) is/are going through every skill and trait to figure out ideal tuning for PvP." Instead they gave it to an intern and told them to apply a 0.7 factor.

  • Thanks for killing my sword weaver </3

  • Rettan.9603Rettan.9603 Member ✭✭✭

    In general the patch looks promising. But there is one thing on warrior I doesn't like:
    The change for Full Counter goes (again) in a wrong direction.
    The damage was bad and is more bad now. The change of the daze is not necessary. (In my opinion you should nerf it, not buff.)

    In team fights (or wvw) you can use FC brain-dead in many cases and will have a benefit. The counter play to FC is: Do not proc it.
    But that doesn't work, when more then one or two players throw around their AoE skills. Especially when they stay some seconds on the ground.
    As it is now (and will be after the patch) FC is too easy to use with too much benefit.

    A better change to FC is:

    • Reduce the targets it hits to 1
    • Make the Daze a short but not too short duration (1-1.5 second)
    • Give back damage to FC

    FC should hurt if you proc it, but not 5 people when 1 is enough to trigger it with random AoE. When you hit it in a 1v1 or 2v2: You really deserve the hurt!

    As nice bonus:

    • Review the Revenge Counter trait again: With the non-existent dmg of FC the Damage boost makes no sense. Even with a higher FC damage, Magebane Tether is a better option. But you could remove the dmg boost and replace it with an small heal or condi remove. That emphasizes the sustain aspect if this trait.
    • Review Attackers Insight again: Is it necessary that the Spellbreaker has such a massive dmg boost to fulfill the role it's designed for?
  • Cpt Crunch.7058Cpt Crunch.7058 Member ✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Cal Cohen.2358
     
    *Reposting from WvW forum because many of the changes to WvW are similar or identical to PvP and it seems Anet is doing a disservice by splitting these discussions up
     
    Community asks for less damage, less healing, less condi spam, and less cleansing in order to address TTK. Something around 15-20% (not the usual "cut everything by half" kitten you always do). And what do you give us instead? An entire rework of how WvW and PvP combat works!!!

    I am all in favor of skill splits between the game modes, like the amount of damage/healing done, boon duration and stacks. Some of these are ok. They try to address those concerns.
    But you are changing the mechanics and feel on many skills as well by changing cooldowns, available charges, cast times, and so on. THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!

    Currently the only game modes I am playing are WvW and PvE and this is due to how in PvP nothing works the way it does in the other two game modes. Having to learn rotations and timing for a separate aspect of the game is severely off putting. With this patch you further entrench this philosophy and I for one ain't going to be learning 3 separate rotations..... per build.... per profession I play.... It's just plain stupid as hell!

    The idea of making certain CC skills be focused more around the CC aspect, and other skills around damage is good. But as others have stated, there are no strong skills meant solely for high damage. Take Revenant sword skills 3-5 for example. Sword 5 has mobility so it can have its damage reduced no problem, Sword 3 had mobility and 1.5 sec of evade so it too can have it's damage reduced because as your current design ideas go you shouldn't be able to do it all. But Sword 4? That skill has all its damage and the immobilize effect occur within the time-span of a single dodge, and its highly telegraphed! That skill should stay as it is so you know skill is rewarded either for the player moving out of the way or for the Revenant trying to land it. The immobilize can have its duration reduced maybe but it too is part of the reward the Revenant has for getting it to land.

    Furthermore, -50 endurance for Mirage in only PvP/WvW is so unbelievably short sighted. And again, it's such a massive change to how it plays in one game mode versus the others. I understand you want the spec to have a drawback SO MAKE IT ONE FOR ALL GAME MODES! And something not as ridiculous as -50 endurance, maybe cut endurance regen by 50%, or increase the cost of the Mirage Cloak dodge to 55 endurance points so the player has to wait for that extra endurance tick to dodge again in order to avoid the dodge/clone-gen to Shatter spam. Maybe you forgot that axe is the weapon conferred by the Mirage specialization and it is a MELEE weapon thus the ability to stand face-to-face is paramount for that weapon skills to work effectively. Unless of course what you want to say is that no Mirage should ever play as melee again, at which point just give us a new weapon for the elite spec, something that would actually work and wouldn't be contradictory to the way you want us to play the specialization....

    Also, Prime Light Beam for Holosmith is an elite skill. Reducing the power coefficient from 3.00 to 0.01 essentially just make it into pure CC which makes it into a regular skill, definitely not something worthy of being called "elite".
     
     
     

    Tl;dr: Adjust TTK with less damage, less healing, less condi spam, and less cleansing. Split skills here and there to address boon duration and stacking. LEAVE MECHANICS ALONE!!! Cooldowns, cast times, charges, etc. should be the same across all game modes!

  • NeroBoron.7285NeroBoron.7285 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    -delete me-

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Final Shielding: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

    4 min+ for this skill cooldown? This for real? That long then any single elite in game. There's alot of changes so I didn't look threw all of it but only ele would get a 4 minute + trait cooldown.

    This isn't even a passive life save at all!!
    Considering a it can be countered by an unblockable skill it just makes this trait 100% unless now.

    Name 1 other passive life save that can be countered by an unblock able and only has a 3 hit max. There isn't any. Ele gets sh it traits compared to other passive invulns since day one and has always gotten the worst end of the stick so to speak.

  • How much can you whine about stealth, when there are such cancer builds as perminvulnerability mesmer or 1 shot mesmer or an unkillable weaver.
    Why playing as a thief, you need to calculate the duration of stealth, cooldowns, distance, etc. as opposed to mesmer and weaver where any average player will make more impact.

    Have you forgotten about renegade rev and berserker warrior specs? Or mb scourge. You won't see these classes in pvp.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think you guys understand how DH works in PvP. Deflecting shot doing basically 0 damage kills part of the coordinated burst it takes to "kill" someone. I don't care if you lowered healing a little bit. Classes will outsustain it. Also, now true shot will be on a super long CD. What is DH supposed to do to kill someone? I'm already practicing Rev. You guys might want to rethink the approach to DH

    How the heck do I get 5 stars?
  • Rettan.9603Rettan.9603 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    Final Shielding: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

    4 min+ for this skill cooldown? This for real? That long then any single elite in game. There's alot of changes so I didn't look threw all of it but only ele would get a 4 minute + trait cooldown.

    This isn't even a passive life save at all!!
    Considering a it can be countered by an unblockable skill it just makes this trait 100% unless now.

    Name 1 other passive life save that can be countered by an unblock able and only has a 3 hit max. There isn't any. Ele gets sh it traits compared to other passive invulns since day one and has always gotten the worst end of the stick so to speak.

    They made that with all the passive life savers.
    But tbh. these traits are totally useless now and even before they were no good design.
    For now its fine, but for the future they should replace these kind of traits entirely.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Can you make Retaliatory Subconscious a stunbreak? It's the Guardian Virtues trait.

    Retaliatory Subconscious: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 60 seconds

    How the heck do I get 5 stars?
  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    I don't think you guys understand how DH works in PvP. Deflecting shot doing basically 0 damage kills part of the coordinated burst it takes to "kill" someone. I don't care if you lowered healing a little bit. Classes will outsustain it. Also, now true shot will be on a super long CD. What is DH supposed to do to kill someone? I'm already practicing Rev. You guys might want to rethink the approach to DH

    I think there is misunderstanding here. It is not that the approach is not correct; there is no approach. This is RNG at its finest.

  • @Serenity.6304 said:
    And with the new, more frequent schedule of updates

    Yup I lost it. Anet and frequent updates. Rofl. Good one.
    Balance changes are bad? Yup only 1 frequent update thats 3 months out and only comes with a PvE update. Lmfao.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    This is just speculation of course but I feel like I am not going to like this patch.

    Those cd increase are just way too much... I know some people wanted a slower gameplay but I like the current one. As I said multiple you have room for a lot of builds and playstyle. I feel like the next one is going to be "oh I got hit by this ? Guess I better run or the fight is lost anyway. All my spells are coming back in >20s".
    This is especially true for healing. Healing Firebrand is a good example (not symbol or sage brand). The current one is fast, you can react to a lot of situations to help you allies. I feel like the next one is going to be more limited. Not as limited as druid but still.
    300s on some passives is way too much of course. Some were already weak / situational but now...
    It seems like some professions are almost the same (warrior) while other took a stronger hit. I was hoping for some rework or changes to make some profession work in both pve and pvp like druid instead.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I cannot believe you guys didn't just rework the traits you made 300 seconds. That means it MIGHT proc two times during a match....

    How the heck do I get 5 stars?
  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Big question btw !
    When do you plan to release it? A patch like this is going to mess up the ratings a lot so I would prefer to see it in between seasons and adjustments starting at the start of the season rather than in 2 weeks in the middle of a season.
    I know this is not the usual planning but this is going to be huge.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    Nerfs are good but I hope they look at the strength of skills/traits/weapons that are well utilized vs those that aren't. Blanket nerfs across the board may not be a good idea based on this.

    If something gets nerfed that's weak to begin with to a similar level to something that was strong before, you'll still see people using the same strong stuff as before. Just my 2 cents.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @Aza.2105 said:

    I think that is the trade off, they can dodge while CCed but they only have one dodge bar. It sounds a lot like something that would be in Guild Wars 1. This patch is awesome.

    Except that this is way too harsh of a trade off, most trades off aren't as bad as this one. I don't think we're going to see any mirage anymore if this goes through, which is sad because id rather face a mirage than it being replaced by the one shot core mesmer or the condi core bunker mesmer, but it seems like we're heading in that direction

    A few things to keep in mind:

    GS had it's damage reduced. They likely won't be able to one shot you unless you've either taken prior damage or face tanked a GS4 without dodging the followup burst.
    Still unhealthy design imo, but it should be less frustrating to play against.

    Mirage losing it's dodge hurts, but given that the overall power level of the game is going down, Mirage may not be pressured into dodging defensively as often as before. Considering the dodge can be used while stuned, their dodges have more value. Stunbreaks and stability got nerfed across the board, so Mirage's dodge starts to look a lot better by comparison. We'll have to wait and see how the meta shapes up. It's difficult to make predictions given the sheer scope of the changes.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    I cannot believe you guys didn't just rework the traits you made 300 seconds. That means it MIGHT proc two times during a match....

    they could make all skills cd refresh when you die and respawn, will make the game more fun to play.

    also 1 dodge for mirage cloak/IH is a really bad idea, just remove ambush from clones.
    nerfing already weak classes is a bad idea, like druid, chrono, guardian hammer and dh bow, their dmg is already too low
    staff thief spamming 5 will be meta again since its barely touched and they will spam it forever with the old powercreep
    you going to remove concentration amulets already, like diviner/harrier/seeker, make the boons last at least 2s not only 1s

    all the other nerfs are good

  • core, daredevil thief in every game. deadeye in1 of 20 games. Nerf deadeye. Genious.

  • When that day comes, we will see about this new balance patch.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    In this thread: Lots of people who only read the section for "their" class going "kitten this will be unplayable"....... having not read all the nerfs to the other classes.

    Basically everything across the board got nerfed ~30%.

    I like.

    Is that something supposedly good? Also, if we nerf everything by 30% across the board, that leaves everything exactly where is, with just slower game play. Is this good? If a skill that no one uses gets 30% nerf, is that good?

    The whole kitten point of this "PvP" patch was to take underwhelming skills and builds and make them better, while shaving boon duration and CC, some CC, and lowering the potency of some over performing builds. Instead it turned in another vanity project for Anet that most surely will leave everything a kitten mess, and is not needed to begin with. I am serious, this is almost a waste of 6 month with very limited class balance changes for this, that will leave will make PvP a mess for another few month. And create massive accessibility wall for anyone whole is not super invested in PvP.

    When Ben said 700+ splits, I was like: "wow, some skilled Anet dev(s) is/are going through every skill and trait to figure out ideal tuning for PvP." Instead they gave it to an intern and told them to apply a 0.7 factor.

    What did you think this patch will be? They stated previously that their main goal was to bring the powerlevel down across the board, and this patch does exactly that.
    Buffing underwhelming skills/builds would just make the powercreep even worse. Making the game slower at this point is a good thing!
    The ability to oneshot, or just generally spike damage/spike heal was out of control for quite some time now. Making the rest of the classes/build able to do the same by buffing them to the same level of stupidly broken wouldn't have fixed anything.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Nothing seemed too outstanding to comment on, until I got to this: Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes = Woah woah! Is that... necessary? I mean a lot of people with long time aggression vs. Mirage are probably thinking "YEAH IT DESERVES IT. SCREW MIRAGE" but really guys, without the ability to double dodge roll when needed, the Mirage is going to frequently be caught in the kinds of bursting that it cannot avoid. I think Arenanet needs to seriously reconsider this very heavy handed nerf.

    I think that is the trade off, they can dodge while CCed but they only have one dodge bar. It sounds a lot like something that would be in Guild Wars 1. This patch is awesome.

    Yeah and during this time daredevil has 3 evade bar.
    Mean where is the trade off ? you think having only one evade justify to evade when you want ?
    Here will be the use case : hit the mirage, burn his scepter block, his evade then CC burst, GG you are done.
    They can dodge while CCed : have you ever try to lock burst other spec (particulary thieves.) ? Mean how did they manage CC ?
    Btw as long as we have clones perturbing people, mesmer will stay strong huh ?

  • As for me with these changes you have lost 2 players :)

    Good job.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Nothing seemed too outstanding to comment on, until I got to this: Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes = Woah woah! Is that... necessary? I mean a lot of people with long time aggression vs. Mirage are probably thinking "YEAH IT DESERVES IT. SCREW MIRAGE" but really guys, without the ability to double dodge roll when needed, the Mirage is going to frequently be caught in the kinds of bursting that it cannot avoid. I think Arenanet needs to seriously reconsider this very heavy handed nerf.

    I think that is the trade off, they can dodge while CCed but they only have one dodge bar. It sounds a lot like something that would be in Guild Wars 1. This patch is awesome.

    Yeah and during this time daredevil has 3 evade bar.
    Mean where is the trade off ? you think having only one evade justify to evade when you want ?
    Here will be the use case : hit the mirage, burn his scepter block, his evade then CC burst, GG you are done.
    They can dodge while CCed : have you ever try to lock burst other spec (particulary thieves.) ? Mean how did they manage CC ?
    Btw as long as we have clones perturbing people, mesmer will stay strong huh ?

    Daredevil doesn't have clones. The entire thief class was created to be squishy without evasion. Mesmer was created to feel pressure after their clones were destroyed. They weren't suppose to have access to the same amount of evasion as thief nor access to the same amount of stealth as thief. They also have a higher health pool than Thief.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ranger Greatsword 4 should have it's cooldown increased to 22 seconds instead of 25 seconds so we can use it once every weapon swap while traited.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Nothing seemed too outstanding to comment on, until I got to this: Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes = Woah woah! Is that... necessary? I mean a lot of people with long time aggression vs. Mirage are probably thinking "YEAH IT DESERVES IT. SCREW MIRAGE" but really guys, without the ability to double dodge roll when needed, the Mirage is going to frequently be caught in the kinds of bursting that it cannot avoid. I think Arenanet needs to seriously reconsider this very heavy handed nerf.

    I think that is the trade off, they can dodge while CCed but they only have one dodge bar. It sounds a lot like something that would be in Guild Wars 1. This patch is awesome.

    Yeah and during this time daredevil has 3 evade bar.
    Mean where is the trade off ? you think having only one evade justify to evade when you want ?
    Here will be the use case : hit the mirage, burn his scepter block, his evade then CC burst, GG you are done.
    They can dodge while CCed : have you ever try to lock burst other spec (particulary thieves.) ? Mean how did they manage CC ?
    Btw as long as we have clones perturbing people, mesmer will stay strong huh ?

    Daredevil doesn't have clones. The entire thief class was created to be squishy without evasion. Mesmer was created to feel pressure after their clones were destroyed. They weren't suppose to have access to the same amount of evasion as thief nor access to the same amount of stealth as thief. They also have a higher health pool than Thief.

    Mesmer was created to counter rollface and melee thanks to confusion and on clones death effects. It just became a pale version of thief when playing power and has a boring passive gameplay when playing condi thanks to years of players whine.
    Now I don't care I will troll on other class like all top mesmers main who rerolled or stop playing if we are facing no gut hard counter while having less sustain.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm okay with all the mesmer nerfs, however the change to mirage cloak is gonna take all the fun out of the class for me. I don't enjoy base mes or chronomancer anymore. Cloak was really cool and so much fun. Too strong I guess. But I wish they thought of another solution to keep it interesting and just as fun/cool.