why players crying about new squad invisible tag now? vets asked for feature long time ago

[Riba.3271]

There are new players to WvW. Any commander who thinks they're entitled to only people that contribute to the group with "100% meta never theorycrafting" despite not being able to provide these pugs the incentive to run WvW builds over 3-4 commanding sessons (It is not realistic to think it would be instant), should just stay at guild raids.

The reason why leading sucks for you magically now is not because people attitudes changed, it is because meta changed to favor only defensive gameplay. Also "fight" commanders thinking fightcommanding means never capping/defending anything, just open field blobbing, despite all Legendary open commanders having done "The ppt", are obviously wrong. There is no surprise that you sitting at keep waiting for enemy strong blob to show up once every 2 weeks and then tagging up to realise other "meta" people on your server didn't feel like waiting 2 weeks will make WvW suck for you.

Yes, the Legendary commanders hated the WvW changes as well so they quit already. Every change to upgrade/scoring system, shield gens to boon overcap specs made WvW lose reasons for players to communicate and coordinate between each others, which unfortunately was the endgame that defined the best groups.

[Strider Pj.2193]

And you wonder why people transfer...

We have open and closed tags, visible and invisible. They coordinate together.. constantly.

Does that happen every time? No.

But it works very well.

Commanders are content creators... respect them, or create your own.

Our havoc let’s them know where we are and what we are doing. It’s more fun that way.

[reddie.5861]

tbh, as much as i like it. it will also be another nail to coffin for WvW..

some players just dont wanna be in a guild, they are casual but casuals doesnt mean they are bad..now if every1 is hiding on map the map is pretty dead for them.

most servers that are doing good have most likely plenty of open tags and people are enjoying so they will return faster.if u get bored time after time at the end ur not even gonna bother to return.

like me i never join open tags so u would say so it doesnt matter for you, no and yes.i did follow the open tag around with ton of distance picking my fights around them or i was ganking from behind in enemy zerg..now if he goes hide mode i constantly have to pinpoint where fuck he is in order to do what i enjoy.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@"Threather.9354" said:I think invisible tag should be limited to less than 20 people squads.

Nothing good will come if blob commanders start running discord-only invisible. People won't stick on maps (or join discord) after checking there is no commander.In a healthier environment I would hands down agree with you.At this point in the game though, things are getting so cynical that I believe that some good things could come from overthrowing the "tyranny of the majority". I'm not sure how things are on your current server but on the account I play most of my time on now we're looking at - if people join coms - upwards of 75% have their mics turned off. In squads of 50, it's not uncommon that less than 5 players say anything (useful) over stretches of hours and commanders do mic checks because the dead silence makes them believe their own mics do not work as they talk to themselves.

You can't expect people to talk to strangers so casually. Some people don't actually have mics. The basic expectation is that they may listen and be able to deal with certain movements more easily.

I mean yes they could put in the effort to join your server and not listen to you, but at that point who really cares.

this is true. it took me 6 months before i actually joined mumble in this game. of which before i used solely for competitive starcraft.

And then everyone switches to a new program for comms! Some people complain their potatoes can't handle it; not everyone has a gaming pc after all. Until about 3 years ago, I would crash because not enough ram, lol.

[shiri.4257]

@LINKAZZATORE.8135 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

The top 3 actual reasons why tags run invisible:

1) they don't want the server knowing they failed to defend an objective2) they don't want the server kowing they failed to take an objective3) generate a perception that they are doing anything useful in wvw when they really aren't.

or we don't want to run with people that think like this

That's prolly on the top 10 list. if you accept the first 3 as your failures, your sins will be forgiven. and you may reform and bandwagon onto the next expedition!

[videoboy.4162]

One of our guys runs Invisible because he hates the server we're paired with and doesn't want to play with them. Even makes comments about letting T3 things get capped just to spite them. It's really funny, in a really pathetic kind of way.

[LINKAZZATORE.8135]

@shiri.4257 said:

@LINKAZZATORE.8135 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

The top 3 actual reasons why tags run invisible:

1) they don't want the server knowing they failed to defend an objective2) they don't want the server kowing they failed to take an objective3) generate a perception that they are doing anything useful in wvw when they really aren't.

or we don't want to run with people that think like this

That's prolly on the top 10 list. if you accept the first 3 as your failures, your sins will be forgiven. and you may reform and bandwagon onto the next expedition!

failure at not doing something boring and useless? i think the failure is those wasting time fighting npcs lords for nothing

[shiri.4257]

@LINKAZZATORE.8135 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@LINKAZZATORE.8135 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

The top 3 actual reasons why tags run invisible:

1) they don't want the server knowing they failed to defend an objective2) they don't want the server kowing they failed to take an objective3) generate a perception that they are doing anything useful in wvw when they really aren't.

or we don't want to run with people that think like this

That's prolly on the top 10 list. if you accept the first 3 as your failures, your sins will be forgiven. and you may reform and bandwagon onto the next expedition!

failure at not doing something boring and useless? i think the failure is those wasting time fighting npcs lords for nothing

like lolligagging around a t3 keep and tagging the guards? sounds pretty boring and useless to me.

[Baltzenger.2467]

It might come down to the need of having better tells about where the action is beyond the orange swords, contested objectives and marked enemies. Private tag is a great thing to have when you need it, but since it was implemented I've noticed how some squads that used to at least point the presence of allies on a map, have disappeared, and thus the casual player entering a map sees no tag and leaves.

If your server is not particularly organized it will suffer because of this, not just because pugs won't know where to go, but because sometimes more than one invi tag is running around, not communicating, not knowing where your allies are pressuring, which does affect strategies.
So maybe Arenanet could find some other ways of showing in the map where players are, without spoiling an invisible tag. Current tells tend to point towards the enemy presence, maybe knowing how many allies are inside each controlled objective could help determine presence of allies. Of course this gets also easily solved by just making a community and talking to each other.

[Lauren.3061]

I'm currently on "pug" status as I'm not in a major WvW guild atm, and I think the private option tag is great. I think there's going to be some negative consequences possibly, e.g., many pugs will check around, don't see any tags, so they bail. So there might be less numbers helping out as a result. I believe that's an okay price to pay though so private guilds get this extra little QoL of having a tag only they can see. On my server no one's complained about it tbh, I think most people are cool with it. I just spend time roaming and hitting objectives that I think might be helpful to what the guild's working on if it's PPT stuff.

[Klypto.1703]

I love these guys but they seem to get really mad when you come by to res them. Then they tell me to go away but then after they wipe 10 more times they demand i come help them lol. Then I'm like why help you... you just said you didn't want me lol. Yeah private tagging groups are my form of entertainment they are just non stop comedy then that one guy who says do not use any gem store items with animation they give away our location.

[steki.1478]

@Klypto.1703 said:I love these guys but they seem to get really mad when you come by to res them. Then they tell me to go away but then after they wipe 10 more times they demand i come help them lol. Then I'm like why help you... you just said you didn't want me lol. Yeah private tagging groups are my form of entertainment they are just non stop comedy then that one guy who says do not use any gem store items with animation they give away our location.

They were probably GvGing with another guild and didnt want to fight with uneven numbers/people outside of those 2 guilds. Reviving in combat is counter productive, but once the fight is over there's no reason not to revive someone. They probably told you to stop interrupting the fight while it was going on and asked for help once the fight was over.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Cuz they always find things to cry about, especially in these forums haha

[Nerah.8235]

Honestly, who cares about tags? Don’t wait for a tag to do something. You can do plenty alone or with small groups. I find following a tag is ONLY useful if you are defending a keep or smc against a Zerg. Even then, just attack their keep to draw Zerg away.

[Klypto.1703]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Cuz they always find things to cry about, especially in these forums haha

They are always whining about something and I must have come by now wearing the dye of the day or something.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:And you wonder why people transfer...

We have open and closed tags, visible and invisible. They coordinate together.. constantly.

Does that happen every time? No.

But it works very well.

Commanders are content creators... respect them, or create your own.

Our havoc let’s them know where we are and what we are doing. It’s more fun that way.

This.

Most people complaining here are from the subset of: I join wvw and expect to tag along in a public squad. Done.

The actually workings behind the scenes remain unkown to them. On more organized servers there is:

• regular community meetings (we have a 30-60 Minute community meeting every 2 weeks where issues are being discussed and ideas get shared, usually with over 50-100 people present in teamspeak).
• Organization which map sees public tags, which map sees guild tags for evenings.
• Planned events like specific class trainings open to all (the last time we did a Firebrand training, there was close to 30-40 players present getting advice from experienced players when and how to play the class).

Most commanders coordinate with each other at the very least for prime time.

Unfortunately most of the behind work isn't seen by people who spend 4-5 hours per week in the game mode or who never actually join a WvW guild. All these people see is open tag or no open tag.

@reddie.5861 said:some players just dont wanna be in a guild, they are casual but casuals doesnt mean they are bad..now if every1 is hiding on map the map is pretty dead for them.

Fair enough, but those players are the last who get to scream: people are being unsocial and uncooperative. MMORPGS revolve around people playing together and most often this is facilitated and done via guild structures. GW2 is very lenient and easy going in that regard since it allows easy grouping without the necessity of joining a guild. It is still more efficient to join a guild though, especially for specific dedicated content.

@reddie.5861 said:most servers that are doing good have most likely plenty of open tags and people are enjoying so they will return faster.if u get bored time after time at the end ur not even gonna bother to return.

Most server which are doing well have:A.) a population big enough to sustain the game modeB.) a sufficient organization behind all the action

There is a reason why wvw guild transfers have big effects on server performance and it's not only numbers. It's because some of the most organized and exprienced players leave.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:The real answer is because the WvW community as a whole contains a large number of vocal whiners that loose their minds over any change, regardless how beneficial it might be.Mounts, gliding, a new BL, even an increase in rewards and a direct path to Ascended armor were all met with derision and "this kills the game mode" posts.

these ppl live in a Catch-22 logic problem, are the same ppl that complain about game-mode at low population.

[SloRules.3560]

Idk, seems like 3/4 of people commenting here are American, since i just don't understand the complaints...

EU guilds never allow pugs near them when not running explicitly open.

[Sovereign.1093]

@SloRules.3560 said:Idk, seems like 3/4 of people commenting here are American, since i just don't understand the complaints...

EU guilds never allow pugs near them when not running explicitly open.

different culture. :)

[LINKAZZATORE.8135]

@shiri.4257 said:

@LINKAZZATORE.8135 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

@LINKAZZATORE.8135 said:

@shiri.4257 said:

The top 3 actual reasons why tags run invisible:

1) they don't want the server knowing they failed to defend an objective2) they don't want the server kowing they failed to take an objective3) generate a perception that they are doing anything useful in wvw when they really aren't.

or we don't want to run with people that think like this

That's prolly on the top 10 list. if you accept the first 3 as your failures, your sins will be forgiven. and you may reform and bandwagon onto the next expedition!

failure at not doing something boring and useless? i think the failure is those wasting time fighting npcs lords for nothing

like lolligagging around a t3 keep and tagging the guards? sounds pretty boring and useless to me.

that's what you do

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Honestly I don't get what the issue is. If a group wanted to be closed before the patch they'd run tagless. The only thing stealth tags do is give the same organisational tools to those groups that public tags enjoy. I'm not entitled to anyone else's effort and game time, nor are they entitled to mine, so if they want to run tagless it's the tags choice alone, the same as me wanting to roam solo, my choice alone. If you're looking to ppt either find a public tag or tag up yourself and go for an objective. If you're looking to only blob fight, join a dedicated WvW guild that caters to that. If you don't want to join a guild that provides the experience you want, and you don't want to pony up the gold for a tag yourself, but still expect others to use their play time to provide a service for you, you're entitled and need an attitude check. Sorry, but it's true.

[JTGuevara.9018]

Exactly what I'm saying, OP. This is a friggin BOON. Now I can tag up for just the guild without worry.

[enkidu.5937]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Honestly I don't get what the issue is. If a group wanted to be closed before the patch they'd run tagless. The only thing stealth tags do is give the same organisational tools to those groups that public tags enjoy. I'm not entitled to anyone else's effort and game time, nor are they entitled to mine, so if they want to run tagless it's the tags choice alone, the same as me wanting to roam solo, my choice alone. If you're looking to ppt either find a public tag or tag up yourself and go for an objective. If you're looking to only blob fight, join a dedicated WvW guild that caters to that. If you don't want to join a guild that provides the experience you want, and you don't want to pony up the gold for a tag yourself, but still expect others to use their play time to provide a service for you, you're entitled and need an attitude check. Sorry, but it's true.in short: you dont care about teamplaying with your server

[Stand The Wall.6987]

we need more incentives for pugmanding.