How to Fix Stealth

[anduriell.6280]

Thief needs a rework of how access stealth in combination with the high mobility and absurd spike burst. As i pointed out in other thread we don't need to destroy the thief mechanics, just tune up a little bit some aspects.

@"anduriell.6280" said:Still i think we don't need to go such extremes, as i said Camouflaje would sufice to balance DE stealth, then even the elite would make sense. That was an stealth effect for the ranger which was active for short duration as long as the ranger didn't move or used any skills or actions.

As trade off to the Deadeye this is also good and fit the original thematic on the idea of an static ranged glass cannon. Just make any stealth applied to the DE becomes Camouflaje and extend it's duration. So it gets more stealth at the cost of not being able to perform any actions.With that we already balanced the permastealth DE without destroying core or DD

And to address the Malice stacks: Malice should go back to build over time instead by hits (with the exception of the trait) . This is to avoid insta 2 malice stacks from stealth. And be reset as soon as the DE lose target (stealth, out of range, change target).Malice needs also an adjustment in the percentage: 15% by stack is simply too much. I would reduce the damage to a 10% by stack.Add a cantrip which allows the DE to stay in stealth (applies more Camouflage than CD it has or very close) so allows the DE to camp in safety. The DE would be revealed for a second when the cantrip is casted so it couldn't be used effectively if there is enemies looking for him.

And assassin signet make it so it gives 1 attack with that buff, similar to rangers Attack of Oportunity. Core thief is okeish, spike damage is not that bad (Backstabs around 7-9K in 2.5K armor) just need a bit of adjustment in my opinion. Makes the use of the signet actually meaningful keeping the design of a bursty spike.

After this no other trait may need to be touched. Maybe the Quickness GM, but i would leave it as it is until later as it may be not needed.

With those small changes Deadeye would stop being so oppressive while still keeping the actual gameplay style.

If after all this perma-stealth is a problem Anet can extend the revealed in all the skills.

[Sobx.1758]

@Vrath.1754 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:many have asked me, why didn't Guild Wars 1 didn't have stealth mechanic? I replied, take a look at Guild Wars 2 and see for yourself. Without either a complete redesign of Guild Wars 2 Toxic Stealth Mechanic or completely removing it all together, nothing will ever change for the good.

Guild Wars 2 will continue being viewed as being the worst Bad Design Stealth Mechanic; especially for 8 consecutive years in the competitive gaming industry

Do i feel sad or bad about it? You did it to yourself....Not anymore

'The Way You Present Yourself, Is The Way You'll Be Remembered'

Who are these "many people"? Are they the competitive gaming industry CEOs, COOs & VPs? Is there an award ceremony like the razzies and GW2 is the continued razzy winner? ;)

I keep asking him this question whenever he mentions these wide audiences he somehow gathers information from. I've never received any answer to that, maybe you'll be more lucky. :D

[Sobx.1758]

@anduriell.6280 said:Thief needs a rework of how access stealth in combination with the high mobility and absurd spike burst. As i pointed out in other thread we don't need to destroy the thief mechanics, just tune up a little bit some aspects.

@anduriell.6280 said:Still i think we don't need to go such extremes, as i said

Camouflaje

would sufice to balance DE stealth, then even the elite would make sense. That was an stealth effect for the ranger which was active for short duration as long as the ranger didn't move or used any skills or actions.

As trade off to the Deadeye this is also good and fit the original thematic on the idea of an static ranged glass cannon. Just make any stealth applied to the DE becomes

Camouflaje

and extend it's duration. So it gets more stealth at the cost of not being able to perform any actions.With that we already balanced the permastealth DE without destroying core or DD

And to address the Malice stacks: Malice should go back to build over time instead by hits (with the exception of the trait) . This is to avoid insta 2 malice stacks from stealth. And be reset as soon as the DE lose target (stealth, out of range, change target).Malice needs also an adjustment in the percentage: 15% by stack is simply too much. I would reduce the damage to a 10% by stack.Add a cantrip which allows the DE to stay in stealth (applies more Camouflage than CD it has or very close) so allows the DE to camp in safety. The DE would be revealed for a second when the cantrip is casted so it couldn't be used effectively if there is enemies looking for him.

And assassin signet make it so it gives 1 attack with that buff, similar to rangers

Attack of Oportunity

. Core thief is okeish, spike damage is not that bad (Backstabs around 7-9K in 2.5K armor) just need a bit of adjustment in my opinion. Makes the use of the signet actually meaningful keeping the design of a bursty spike.

After this no other trait may need to be touched. Maybe the Quickness GM, but i would leave it as it is until later as it may be not needed.

With those small changes Deadeye would stop being so oppressive while still keeping the actual gameplay style.

If after all this perma-stealth is a problem Anet can extend the revealed in all the skills.

Your idea solves nothing and pretty much destroys the idea behind the class (stealth attacks). It also makes in-combat stealth useless/unusable, so despite your claims that "we don't need to go such extremes", that's pretty much what you're doing.

How exactly is this "balancing permastealth DE"? By what logic exactly? By making it an unusable skill designated for afking in the middle of wvw? That's insane.Your malice change proposal is also simply bad, a step back that encourages passive gameplay.

And btw I find it pretty funny that you've suddenly specifically changed your avatar to "DE" probably to add some credibility to your post. Doesn't work that way though.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:Thief needs a rework of how access stealth in combination with the high mobility and absurd spike burst. As i pointed out in other thread we don't need to destroy the thief mechanics, just tune up a little bit some aspects.

@anduriell.6280 said:Still i think we don't need to go such extremes, as i said

Camouflaje

would sufice to balance DE stealth, then even the elite would make sense. That was an stealth effect for the ranger which was active for short duration as long as the ranger didn't move or used any skills or actions.

As trade off to the Deadeye this is also good and fit the original thematic on the idea of an static ranged glass cannon. Just make any stealth applied to the DE becomes

Camouflaje

and extend it's duration. So it gets more stealth at the cost of not being able to perform any actions.With that we already balanced the permastealth DE without destroying core or DD

And to address the Malice stacks: Malice should go back to build over time instead by hits (with the exception of the trait) . This is to avoid insta 2 malice stacks from stealth. And be reset as soon as the DE lose target (stealth, out of range, change target).Malice needs also an adjustment in the percentage: 15% by stack is simply too much. I would reduce the damage to a 10% by stack.Add a cantrip which allows the DE to stay in stealth (applies more Camouflage than CD it has or very close) so allows the DE to camp in safety. The DE would be revealed for a second when the cantrip is casted so it couldn't be used effectively if there is enemies looking for him.

And assassin signet make it so it gives 1 attack with that buff, similar to rangers

Attack of Oportunity

. Core thief is okeish, spike damage is not that bad (Backstabs around 7-9K in 2.5K armor) just need a bit of adjustment in my opinion. Makes the use of the signet actually meaningful keeping the design of a bursty spike.

After this no other trait may need to be touched. Maybe the Quickness GM, but i would leave it as it is until later as it may be not needed.

With those small changes Deadeye would stop being so oppressive while still keeping the actual gameplay style.

If after all this perma-stealth is a problem Anet can extend the revealed in all the skills.

Your idea solves nothing and pretty much destroys the idea behind the class (stealth attacks). It also makes in-combat stealth useless/unusable, so despite your claims that "we don't need to go such extremes", that's pretty much what you're doing.

How exactly is this "balancing permastealth DE"? By what logic exactly? By making it unusable skill for afking in the middle of wvw? That's insane.

Your malice change proposal is also simply bad, a step back that encourages passive gameplay.

Hes of the mindset that thief can't have a good burst due to it having mobility as well, now stealth should be almost useless due to thiefs high mobility. Quite the the toll thief has to pay for its mobility in his mind, kinda seems like he just dislikes the classes and wishes it usuable.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this would destroy stealth in organized team play. the only solution that makes sense is to lengthen revealed and eliminate deadeyes ability to remove revealed like you said. maybe take away the ability to combo off of your own smoke field while ooc, altho ppl would likely aggro themselves on npcs and fall dmg. would still help in a lot of situations tho.

Lengthening Revealed just makes in-combat stealth worse, while out of combat stealth remains broken. The only solution is to put a hardcap on stealth duration. Something like 6 seconds.

A hard cap of 6 seconds that cannot be refreshed or one that can be refreshed up to 6s?

Hard cap of 6 seconds.

[kash.9213]

@anduriell.6280 said:Thief needs a rework of how access stealth in combination with the high mobility and absurd spike burst. As i pointed out in other thread we don't need to destroy the thief mechanics, just tune up a little bit some aspects.

@anduriell.6280 said:Still i think we don't need to go such extremes, as i said

Camouflaje

would sufice to balance DE stealth, then even the elite would make sense. That was an stealth effect for the ranger which was active for short duration as long as the ranger didn't move or used any skills or actions.

As trade off to the Deadeye this is also good and fit the original thematic on the idea of an static ranged glass cannon. Just make any stealth applied to the DE becomes

Camouflaje

and extend it's duration. So it gets more stealth at the cost of not being able to perform any actions.With that we already balanced the permastealth DE without destroying core or DD

And to address the Malice stacks: Malice should go back to build over time instead by hits (with the exception of the trait) . This is to avoid insta 2 malice stacks from stealth. And be reset as soon as the DE lose target (stealth, out of range, change target).Malice needs also an adjustment in the percentage: 15% by stack is simply too much. I would reduce the damage to a 10% by stack.Add a cantrip which allows the DE to stay in stealth (applies more Camouflage than CD it has or very close) so allows the DE to camp in safety. The DE would be revealed for a second when the cantrip is casted so it couldn't be used effectively if there is enemies looking for him.

And assassin signet make it so it gives 1 attack with that buff, similar to rangers

Attack of Oportunity

. Core thief is okeish, spike damage is not that bad (Backstabs around 7-9K in 2.5K armor) just need a bit of adjustment in my opinion. Makes the use of the signet actually meaningful keeping the design of a bursty spike.

After this no other trait may need to be touched. Maybe the Quickness GM, but i would leave it as it is until later as it may be not needed.

With those small changes Deadeye would stop being so oppressive while still keeping the actual gameplay style.

If after all this perma-stealth is a problem Anet can extend the revealed in all the skills.

DE isn't ruining anyone's day at this point unless they're just clueless. We have the Deadeye we have now because people didn't like being stalked by a stealth thief waiting for Malice to build up. I loved that original version of DE even as a low stealth thief, Cursed Bullet was one of more versatile, interesting, and fun skills to combo with. With rifle skills being priced out now you're more likely to get bombed and have a quicker fight than the previous game builds than have a stand up fight. Your Camouflage idea doesn't allow the thief to operate or contribute in any game mode and you're basically asking for a useless permastealth thief who will only attack at total advantage to avoid obstruction and line of site.

[cloudsareyum.8120]

Stealth is fine, is counterable, and does not need to be fixed. If there are any changes, it should be applied to WvW only, removing stealth would kill the fun of the classes themselves, it would unbalance PvP, it would be pretty dreadful. It would be kind of nice if you could stealth more often in PvE but that's about it.

[Vashuddha.1538]

@cloudsareyum.8120 said:Stealth is fine, is counterable, and does not need to be fixed. If there are any changes, it should be applied to WvW only, removing stealth would kill the fun of the classes themselves, it would unbalance PvP, it would be pretty dreadful. It would be kind of nice if you could stealth more often in PvE but that's about it.

Stealth is hardly counterable, and I would even go as far as to say that it isn't. Unlike other MMORPGs, abilities such as stealth can be compromised by factors such as:

1. Distance. Whenever someone in stealth gets too close to their target, the player will have a 1-3 second time window where the player who is stealthing is slightly exposed. Whenever the distance becomes too great, the stealthing target becomes invisible. This would be a a great feature and could possibly solve this whole issue, because then both parties have the exact same amount of time to either attack, or counter. As of now, people are forced to utilise crucial skills, waste endurance and swing their weapons aimlessly whenever a Thief is in stealth, because you're left with 0,01 seconds time window to act before you're hit by a barrage of of burst attacks. After that the Thief can easily evade any counters and instantly go stealth again before the whole process repeats itself.
2. Stealth cancelation when damaged - Any AOE or damage of any kind should cancel stealth leaving the thief exposed.
3. Reduced speed while in stealth - The fact that Thieves gain super speed while stealthing really doesn't make any sense. I mean, if I were to sneak around in order to disguise myself and become unnoticeable I wouldn't be sprinting.
4. No stealth stack, what so ever.

6 simple solutions. Really not that hard. I agree that removing stealth altogether would be a lazy and ineffective solution, but there are many possible ways to fix it, because it definitely needs some fixing.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:Stealth as a mechanic is not the problem - THIEF is the problem. They have access to nearly permanent stealth, a stupid amount of evade frames, godlike mobility, burst damage, daze, and sustain. So all thieves do is burst out of stealth, use their infinite evade frames and mobility to avoid all counter pressure, restealth, heal up, and repeat. It is the most braindead, broken spec in the game right now (perhaps along with condi rev, but thats only in spvp). Don't punish all stealth users for what is ENTIRELY a thief problem.

"braindead class" is always being thrown around by people unable to learn to counter a specific spec. Where did the De touch you, and did it hurt ?People still claiming theres "nO cOunTeR tO sTeAlTH" L2p or uninstall,but don't try give "suggestions" on how to nerf a spec youve never even played.

What is the counter to the playstyle that I just described? And what gave you the impression that I was talking about deadeye? I'm clearly referring to daredevil or why else would I mention infinite evade frames and mobility?

I've never played the WvW variant of d/p thief, but I could hop on right now with no experience and I am confident that you would never be able to kill me 1v1. We could do it whenever you want so go ahead and add me. Daredevil is not designed for 1v1, it is designed to +1 fights in conquest and decap nodes. In WvW roaming they use this mobility to break combat and reengage while in stealth. Good luck trying to kill anyone who is able to break combat whenever you pressure them. I'll be waiting.

U serious? Look at ur avatar,are u new. I've been playing shiro glint recently and very casually as I can only stand the games pvp in small bursts but glints reveal has been very very effective counter vs stealth. When I'm on spellbreaker magebane works well as does sick em when I'm on soulbeast. Those are just the three classes I play most and I'm sure others have their counters to stealth as well. U know u can dragon breath the smoke fields the thiefs hs in for stealth right or cleave them,u know the small aoe area their using to stack the stealth no, cuz u can see it and if u interrupt them they'll either be forced into low duration stealth being in revealed shortly after or they'll need to use further resources to maintain stealth. Man this game has so many carry mechanics that it's really starting to effect the playerbase expectations on gameplay. GL in future everyone lol.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Vashuddha.1538 said:

@"cloudsareyum.8120" said:Stealth is fine, is counterable, and does not need to be fixed. If there are any changes, it should be applied to WvW only, removing stealth would kill the fun of the classes themselves, it would unbalance PvP, it would be pretty dreadful. It would be kind of nice if you could stealth more often in PvE but that's about it.

Stealth is hardly counterable, and I would even go as far as to say that it isn't. Unlike other MMORPGs, abilities such as stealth can be compromised by factors such as:

1. Distance. Whenever someone in stealth gets too close to their target, the player will have a 1-3 second time window where the player who is stealthing is slightly exposed. Whenever the distance becomes too great, the stealthing target becomes invisible. This would be a a great feature and could possibly solve this whole issue, because then both parties have the exact same amount of time to either attack, or counter. As of now, people are forced to utilise crucial skills, waste endurance and swing their weapons aimlessly whenever a Thief is in stealth, because you're left with 0,01 seconds time window to act before you're hit by a barrage of of burst attacks. After that the Thief can easily evade any counters and instantly go stealth again before the whole process repeats itself.

So you want melee stealth attacks to be useless, huh? Also, thief still cant "instantly go in stealth".

3. Stealth cancelation when damaged - Any AOE or damage of any kind should cancel stealth leaving the thief exposed.

Let me rephrase what you want real quick, youre being a bit indirect. What youre saying here is "I want stealth to go from bad to completely unusable in-combat, while not touching out of combat stealth ,the only problematic form of stealth".

4. Reduced speed while in stealth - The fact that Thieves gain super speed while stealthing really doesn't make any sense. I mean, if I were to sneak around in order to disguise myself and become unnoticeable I wouldn't be sprinting.

Its magic. You shouldnt be as fast while holding a greatsword as you with 2 flimsy daggers either, but noone is complaining about that, now are they?

6. No stealth stack, what so ever.

This is the only change you propose that isnt so terrible it seems like a joke. It is almost good, even. Just needs a slight change. "Max duration for stealth that cant be exceeded in one go". There we go.

6 simple solutions. Really not that hard. I agree that removing stealth altogether would be a lazy and ineffective solution, but there are many possible ways to fix it, because it definitely needs some fixing.

First, you only wrote 4 solutions. 3 of those are such unbelievably terrible ideas that if it werent for this sentence, I would assume that youre joking. And no, you clearly dont agree, because your solutions are "removing stealth alltogether". The only part of stealt that needs fixing is out of combat stealth. And for that, we have the max duration (lets say 6 seconds) that cant be exceeded. In-combat stealth, if anything, needs a buff because of how useless it is.

[ASP.8093]

@"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:Good luck trying to kill anyone who is able to break combat whenever you pressure them. I'll be waiting.

Ok, but good luck trying to accomplish anything if you bug out the moment you get pressured.

When you're playing thief and you pop a Shadow Portal to get out of a condi bomb after three Skirmisher's Shots that take down 1/4 of an Engineer's health bar, you don't turn to yourself and say, "Teeheehee, I am the uncatchable trollmaster! King of the Borderlands!" You straight-up messed up and you know it.

[kash.9213]

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:Stealth as a mechanic is not the problem - THIEF is the problem. They have access to nearly permanent stealth, a stupid amount of evade frames, godlike mobility, burst damage, daze, and sustain. So all thieves do is burst out of stealth, use their infinite evade frames and mobility to avoid all counter pressure, restealth, heal up, and repeat. It is the most braindead, broken spec in the game right now (perhaps along with condi rev, but thats only in spvp). Don't punish all stealth users for what is ENTIRELY a thief problem.

"braindead class" is always being thrown around by people unable to learn to counter a specific spec. Where did the De touch you, and did it hurt ?People still claiming theres "nO cOunTeR tO sTeAlTH" L2p or uninstall,but don't try give "suggestions" on how to nerf a spec youve never even played.

What is the counter to the playstyle that I just described?

And what gave you the impression that I was talking about deadeye? I'm clearly referring to daredevil or why else would I mention infinite evade frames and mobility?

I've never played the WvW variant of d/p thief, but I could hop on right now with no experience and I am confident that you would never be able to kill me 1v1. We could do it whenever you want so go ahead and add me. Daredevil is not designed for 1v1, it is designed to +1 fights in conquest and decap nodes. In WvW roaming they use this mobility to break combat and reengage while in stealth. Good luck trying to kill anyone who is able to break combat whenever you pressure them. I'll be waiting.

My counter to that playstyle is to remember I never see any thieves with all of that in one build. If they're bursting and sustaining, then their sustain is fragile and active, so take some control with you next time. If they can't kill you 1v1 on d/p, it's not the kit but your build and utility. Take care on d/p out there, pick your fights I guess.

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Elementalist Owner.7802 said:Stealth as a mechanic is not the problem - THIEF is the problem. They have access to nearly permanent stealth, a stupid amount of evade frames, godlike mobility, burst damage, daze, and sustain. So all thieves do is burst out of stealth, use their infinite evade frames and mobility to avoid all counter pressure, restealth, heal up, and repeat. It is the most braindead, broken spec in the game right now (perhaps along with condi rev, but thats only in spvp). Don't punish all stealth users for what is ENTIRELY a thief problem.

"braindead class" is always being thrown around by people unable to learn to counter a specific spec. Where did the De touch you, and did it hurt ?People still claiming theres "nO cOunTeR tO sTeAlTH" L2p or uninstall,but don't try give "suggestions" on how to nerf a spec youve never even played.

What is the counter to the playstyle that I just described? And what gave you the impression that I was talking about deadeye? I'm clearly referring to daredevil or why else would I mention infinite evade frames and mobility?

I've never played the WvW variant of d/p thief, but I could hop on right now with no experience and I am confident that you would never be able to kill me 1v1. We could do it whenever you want so go ahead and add me. Daredevil is not designed for 1v1, it is designed to +1 fights in conquest and decap nodes. In WvW roaming they use this mobility to break combat and reengage while in stealth. Good luck trying to kill anyone who is able to break combat whenever you pressure them. I'll be waiting.

U serious? Look at ur avatar,are u new. I've been playing shiro glint recently and very casually as I can only stand the games pvp in small bursts but glints reveal has been very very effective counter vs stealth. When I'm on spellbreaker magebane works well as does sick em when I'm on soulbeast. Those are just the three classes I play most and I'm sure others have their counters to stealth as well. U know u can dragon breath the smoke fields the thiefs hs in for stealth right or cleave them,u know the small aoe area their using to stack the stealth no, cuz u can see it and if u interrupt them they'll either be forced into low duration stealth being in revealed shortly after or they'll need to use further resources to maintain stealth. Man this game has so many carry mechanics that it's really starting to effect the playerbase expectations on gameplay. GL in future everyone lol.

You keep focusing on stealth for some reason when in my post I explicitly said that stealth is not the problem. Yes, you can reveal on or pressure the smoke field, but you can't stop the thief from running 2000 units away in the blink of an eye, then stacking stealth while you're too far away to do anything about it.

Allow me to educate you on the real counter to thief and why it does not exist anymore. Thief has always had strong stealth, evasion, mobility, and non-telegraphed spike damage. So why was this never an issue before? Because the tradeoff was how easily thieves were punished. Catch a thief with a good burst or cc chain between evade frames, and it was almost guaranteed death for the thief. Thief is traditionally a high risk/high reward class.

Fast forward to post-February balance patch, and now everything hits like a wet noodle. Thieves can afford to get hit with bursts, cc, and whatever else you throw at them, without being punished nearly as hard for it. So that becomes a problem when thieves can now eat your burst, run 2000 units away, heal up, and repeat like nothing ever happened.

Btw, I am not suggesting there should be nerfs to thief. I've accepted the fact that this game is not being balanced for roaming. It is balanced for conquest and large scale fights, and in both of those game modes, thief is not a problem.

[Burnfall.9573]

We are dedicating so much of our time and effort by giving continual repetitive constructive suggestions in hoping that they are put into consideration

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Burnfall.9573 said:We are dedicating so much of our time and effort by giving continual repetitive constructive suggestions in hoping that they are put into consideration

Sorry I was eating popcorn.

So much of this discussion has turned into a back and forth. So let me reset things.

The problem is inherent to stealth, albeit coupled with the fact that two classes that have access to it have instant teleports, not so much with the damage coming out of stealth. The fact that there are instant teleports with 1200 range is a separate issue, and I think instant ports like that should have shorter ranges personally.

The balance patch reduced the damage numbers to the point that unless you are still running a glass cannon build you aren't going to be downed out of stealth and should have time to react. Honestly, 19k health and 2200 defense, AKA warrior baseline, is enough to survive such an opening burst. You might be below 50% HP, but most stealth classes that can do that are also glass and break if you pressure them for more than a few seconds. Now, I am aware that warrior baseline is what some classes have to run tank stats to get, so its easier to be insta downed without being full glass. To an extent that should be a valid playstyle, but people do deserve the opportunity to react, and limiting stealth access/duration will mean that someone will have more of a chance to see the spike coming and prepare for it rather than nerfing the spike itself, i.e. this is about creating better counterplay.

So to reiterate the reoccurring sentiment in this thread, most people feel like a cap on either the amount of stacking or the max duration would be fine, and there are thief players in this thread who have admitted that.

Making stealth stack like super speed achieves this. I'd throw a bone out there to increase baseline numbers on a few stealth skills, although if this is something that happens Anet would have to comb over the skills and finishers that grant stealth and tweak each one, with some giving only a 1s duration like leaps through smoke fields, and some like Mass Invisibility giving 6s.

A 1s duration might seem too short for some, but such durations would be more for setting up key skills with less opportunity to be interrupted, and I think should be limited to leap finishers. Blast finishers I feel should be a longer duration, like 5s, if stacking is no longer allowed. For the most part stealth skills are 2s-3s durations, and I think if stealth were treated like super speed then the spread should widen to 1-5s, with higher amounts on elites, with the majority of stealth skills sitting between 3s-4s. You wouldn't be able to perma stealth, but you could still slot moderate length duration stealths to support existing playstyles.

[Dayra.7405]

Quite easy: remove anything that allows to stealth 5. secs after an attack.

Unstealh (and no stealth for 5sec) on Hit as well.

[lare.5129]

we have different understanding how to fix it.As for me it should be: By add F3 new button. I press once one button, and have stealth all time. Till combat. This I named fix. Because currently my rogue thief don't have normal stealth.

[kash.9213]

@lare.5129 said:we have different understanding how to fix it.As for me it should be: By add F3 new button. I press once one button, and have stealth all time. Till combat. This I named fix. Because currently my rogue thief don't have normal stealth.

You're talking about stealth as it is right now except you'd make it a one button press with no interaction with other players and with no chance to be interrupted.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:We are dedicating so much of our time and effort by giving continual repetitive constructive suggestions in hoping that they are put into consideration

Sorry I was eating popcorn.So to reiterate the reoccurring sentiment in this thread, most people feel like a cap on either the amount of stacking or the max duration would be fine, and there are thief players in this thread

who have admitted that.

I'd say rather that thieves have been the ones to make those suggestions for a long time now instead of admitting to anything. It's just those old threads and posts in thief and wvw forums aren't overly dramatic so they go by mostly unnoticed.

[Nidome.1365]

While annoying I can live with being burst down by a permastealth thief, only for them to use stealth to disengage if the burst fails.My only real gripe with stealth is that they gave portals to a class that can permastealth in WvW. Hunting down a permastealth thief in a freshly flipped objective has always been annoying, but when they were given portals it became 10 times worse.

[Eramonster.2718]

Give Portal to Stealth profession classes :smile:.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

I have already made suggestions (as a Mesmer Main) to fix it in the past. They always degenerate into this same 2 sided debate.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59000/anet-impliment-simple-fix-to-stealth#latest

You are wasting your time.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:I have already made suggestions (as a Mesmer Main) to fix it in the past. They always degenerate into this same 2 sided debate.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59000/anet-impliment-simple-fix-to-stealth#latest

You are wasting your time.

I certainly did degenerate... Does not change the fact that something about stealth needs to change and striving for decent discourse over it should not cease. Anet reads the forums after all and pushing for a soft hand approach rather than a smiter's boon, or worse the status quo is something we as a player base need to push for.

You're proposal is certainly an option, and it would require an opponent to pay attention in order to counter it. I would say to make it work and be fair to the stealth users it would have to be less obvious than what party members see. We see them color coded by the class that granted the stealth (ever notice how allies made invisible by Mesmers allies are pinkish purple but allies stealthed by thieves are not?). If it were a clear overlay and a little more transparent than what party members see then I could see that working.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Kylden Ar.3724" said:I have already made suggestions (as a Mesmer Main) to fix it in the past. They always degenerate into this same 2 sided debate.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59000/anet-impliment-simple-fix-to-stealth#latest

You are wasting your time.

See, the problem I have with that idea is that gw2 doesn't need a target to use majority of the skills, a lot of which are cleave/aoe. I think a change like that targets the area that's less problematic (in-combat/short-duration stealth) and leaves the perma stealth untouched. It also plays directly against the idea of melee stealth attacks mechanic.

[Mikhael.2391]

At this point accept Anet does not know how to balance stealth in a game. It would not be a bad idea to take pointers from other mmos for this subject.

[kash.9213]

@Mikhael.2391 said:At this point accept Anet does not know how to balance stealth in a game. It would not be a bad idea to take pointers from other mmos for this subject.

There's no reason to copy anything from other games though, they can just put a cap on in combat stealth before having to restealth to regulate use window of Stealth Attacks and portal skills. Stealth is pretty much fine otherwise and we'd just make it convoluted and likely create actual balance problems that cut deeper than one noticeable gimmick.