Living World Season 2 and 3 need to be baseline for Steam release.

[Obtena.7952]

@Random Wax Orc.7695 said:I don't think the price tag of the living story is the big issue. Potential buyers of GW2 need to be either clearly informed that some game content (living story) is not included at time of purchase OR they need to have the option to buy that content at time of purchase. People buying a game on Steam just to find out they have to buy more inside the game to get all the content is likely to hurt GW2's reputation.

That's agreeable but that goes without saying that if you purchase something, you get what you paid for and nothing else? I mean, why would a new player even EXPECT to get LS episodes with HoT or PoF purchase ... they wouldn't.

And to anyone claiming LS is expensive ... that's absurd. If the cost IRL money is too much for someone, they REALLY need to prioritize their needs in life to playing GW2.

[MokahTGS.7850]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:I don't mind that the LW Season are extra costs...what I mind are the price points. Currently seasons 2, 3, and 4 will cost you 3200 gems which is roughly $40 US. IMO, that is too much for the content you get.

More content than both HoT and PoF put together and that’s more or less what players paid for each expansion individually when they launched.

Wait...the LW seasons came with gliders, new mounts, Elite Specs?? I guess it depends on what you call content...

[MokahTGS.7850]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:I don't mind that the LW Season are extra costs...what I mind are the price points. Currently seasons 2, 3, and 4 will cost you 3200 gems which is roughly $40 US. IMO, that is too much for the content you get. The content to cost ratio is something ANet has always been on the high side of. Paying the cost of a full expansion for content that is marginal at best, seems like a waste of money.

They don't all need to be purchased at once.

Buying them separately doesn't save you any money.

[kharmin.7683]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:I don't mind that the LW Season are extra costs...what I mind are the price points. Currently seasons 2, 3, and 4 will cost you 3200 gems which is roughly $40 US. IMO, that is too much for the content you get. The content to cost ratio is something ANet has always been on the high side of. Paying the cost of a full expansion for content that is marginal at best, seems like a waste of money.

They don't all need to be purchased at once.

Buying them separately doesn't save you any money.

No, but one doesn't have to buy them all at once. One can buy a few, play the game, acquire gold, convert to gems, buy a few more, play the game, acquire gold, convert to gems, buy a few more, ..... and so on.

[Bristingr.5034]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Bristingr.5034" said:

LS Episodes are EXPENSIVE compared to everything else this game offers.

Yeah, because paying for something costs more than "free".

They cost about roughly half the price of a full-blown expansion pack (at it's release price).

[Ayrilana.1396]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:I don't mind that the LW Season are extra costs...what I mind are the price points. Currently seasons 2, 3, and 4 will cost you 3200 gems which is roughly $40 US. IMO, that is too much for the content you get.

More content than both HoT and PoF put together and that’s more or less what players paid for each expansion individually when they launched.

Wait...the LW seasons came with gliders, new mounts, Elite Specs?? I guess it depends on what you call content...

Features are not the same as content. Those three seasons produced 20 episodes of story, 14 maps to explore (two which can be access with core game), and many metas. Other things that they came with are two new mounts, easier access to ascended gear, at least one quality of life item, and a ton of new skins and rewards.

Why focus on those three and completely ignore everything else that is fair obvious included in the seasons? Not to mention that you're wrong on the new mounts part.

[Thornwolf.9721]

Make a 60$ bundle that has HoT/PoF/All living world rolled into one thing. Its the price of a full game and I think for ALL of that content that is a fair assessment especially because its old content mostly and a good chunk of vets wont be doing it. Rolling it all together could be a good idea and if you wana really push it offer a pre-order for the End of dragons expansion at like 80$ so they can have it as soon as it goes live.

Im not for pre-ordering DLC but rolling it together would seem pretty welcoming, especially if they come into game and see that they actually like it and wana continue on the path of guild wars 2 and becoming a guild wars player. Plus its affordable and not outlandishly over-priced for the amount of content, nor is it asking for more than they would likely spend on a new game. They get core for free which is huge because a vast quantity of content is locked behind that, so its not like they are forced to buy in or anything like that.... I feel also that since their account is locked to steam that would mean its not like they would buy through steam then uninstall and just download the client.

Sure this might to some seem like a steal and unfair for those not going through steam, but it would ensure they could get value out of it AND they could avoid the conundrum that is the DLC issue that ESO faces. One of the biggest reasons the game turned me off is because they sold their other dlc pieces outside of steam, in their cash shop for overpriced shenanigans. They basically break down expansions and sell them piece by piece; A-net could get some solid PR for being more fair or make a Living world pack and expansion pack seperatly and price them around the same. (There is a HUGE amount of content in living world, so you could charge 30 or 40$ for it)

[Omega.6801]

The game should not change, just because it's going to steam.

[MokahTGS.7850]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:I don't mind that the LW Season are extra costs...what I mind are the price points. Currently seasons 2, 3, and 4 will cost you 3200 gems which is roughly $40 US. IMO, that is too much for the content you get.

More content than both HoT and PoF put together and that’s more or less what players paid for each expansion individually when they launched.

Wait...the LW seasons came with gliders, new mounts, Elite Specs?? I guess it depends on what you call content...

Features are not the same as content. Those three seasons produced 20 episodes of story, 14 maps to explore (two which can be access with core game), and many metas. Other things that they came with are two new mounts, easier access to ascended gear, at least one quality of life item, and a ton of new skins and rewards.

Why focus on those three and completely ignore everything else that is fair obvious included in the seasons? Not to mention that you're wrong on the new mounts part.

OK, granted, they did release two mounts with the Season 3. But I do want to point out that they did this under the model of no new expansions. That was the thinking of the time. As that did not seem to pan out, we have EoD coming which means that expansions make them money.

Features are content. You cannot say they aren't. They are bullet points that ANet uses as marketing for the products that they create. Just because something isn't a story doesn't mean it does not factor into the value of buying something.

OK, so you want to break it down then on cost to feature/content? Bang for buck? Buying HoT alone (back when you could) got a new player the full GW2 vanilla game (all features/content) and the added HoT + Season 2 (if you logged into the game when they were released). That was $35 that got you WAY more content then buying ALL of the seasons that we currently have. Buying PoF would get a new player the full GW2 vanilla game (all features/content), the added HoT + Season 2 (if you logged into the game when they were released), the added PoF + Season 3 & 4 (if you logged into the game when they were released. That's $30 that got you WAY more content then buying ALL of the seasons that we currently have.

IMO buying the LW seasons is a bad value but because of how ANet has priced and managed their releases, something that some of their player base has to do to catch up.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:I don't mind that the LW Season are extra costs...what I mind are the price points. Currently seasons 2, 3, and 4 will cost you 3200 gems which is roughly $40 US. IMO, that is too much for the content you get.

More content than both HoT and PoF put together and that’s more or less what players paid for each expansion individually when they launched.

Wait...the LW seasons came with gliders, new mounts, Elite Specs?? I guess it depends on what you call content...

Features are not the same as content. Those three seasons produced 20 episodes of story, 14 maps to explore (two which can be access with core game), and many metas. Other things that they came with are two new mounts, easier access to ascended gear, at least one quality of life item, and a ton of new skins and rewards.

Why focus on those three and completely ignore everything else that is fair obvious included in the seasons? Not to mention that you're wrong on the new mounts part.

OK, granted, they did release two mounts with the Season 3. But I do want to point out that they did this under the model of no new expansions. That was the thinking of the time. As that did not seem to pan out, we have EoD coming which means that expansions make them money.

Not necessarily. The only reason that the LW episodes don't make as much money as expansions is that Anet gives all active players a 100% discount. If they started charging for them then I'm sure they'd make something similar to that of expansions.

I'm curious what this has to do with content though? Whether they operate with the intent of does expansions or not really hasn't changed the content within the episodes over the years.

Features are content. You cannot say they aren't. They are bullet points that ANet uses as marketing for the products that they create. Just because something isn't a story doesn't mean it does not factor into the value of buying something.

Whether something is a factor in someone buying something has no bearing on whether something is a feature or content. Features and content are two distinct things. Features tend to focus around how you play while content focuses around what you play. Adding a new elite spec doesn't add new content. It gives you a new way to play already existing content.

OK, so you want to break it down then on cost to feature/content? Bang for buck? Buying HoT alone (back when you could) got a new player the full GW2 vanilla game (all features/content) and the added HoT + Season 2 (if you logged into the game when they were released). That was $35 that got you WAY more content then buying ALL of the seasons that we currently have. Buying PoF would get a new player the full GW2 vanilla game (all features/content), the added HoT + Season 2 (if you logged into the game when they were released), the added PoF + Season 3 & 4 (if you logged into the game when they were released. That's $30 that got you WAY more content then buying ALL of the seasons that we currently have.

The core game is F2P so all buying an expansion does is remove the various restrictions. You cannot include that as players get access to all of that content regardless. You also cannot include the elements of LS2 that are locked behind owning the episodes either as that would be misleading. You also cannot include the parts that are not tied to having the episodes unlocked as those are available to F2P players. All that you can really include is what came with the expansions: HoT and PoF. That includes other LW seasons as well.

You're twisting thing around along the lines of 1 orange plus 1 apple is greater than the 1 apple by itself. The sum of all parts will always be greater than an individual part. What you're doing is misleading. As I stated in the previous paragraph, ONLY include what specifically came in each of the expansions.

IMO buying the LW seasons is a bad value but because of how ANet has priced and managed their releases, something that some of their player base has to do to catch up.

You're entitled to your opinion. If you stack up all of the content that the LW seasons have brought against that of the expansions, you'll see that they're abut the same if not more. Seasons have been feature-less expansions.

[Ototo.3214]

I think the issue is more that it's not obvious that you need to buy something other than the expacs to have all of the story. Imo the price for everything is reasonable, but people end up feeling lied to when they get the expacs only to find out there is still more to buy.

I agree with the suggestion to just make a bundle that just keeps it all together that people can buy, so they know they are getting everything once they make the purchase.

[castlemanic.3198]

I seriously don't understand objections to making a bundle that included living world seasons on steam and raising the price accordingly.

How is that objectionable? A single purchase to get all the story up to PoF is ONLY beneficial for new players. There's literally no downside to it that i can see. Why should new players be forced to purchase an incomplete story and then later be told they're missing crucial story elements that was NOT explained on the purchase page? new players will NOT be happy that they can't even begin HoT without seriously missing out on crucial story events that happen in season 2 something that is currently not advertised to players who buy the game off of the website. Both the gw2 shop and steam should update the base price of PoF to include living world seasons 2 and 3 at minimum.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@castlemanic.3198 said:I seriously don't understand objections to making a bundle that included living world seasons on steam and raising the price accordingly.

How is that objectionable? A single purchase to get all the story up to PoF is ONLY beneficial for new players. There's literally no downside to it that i can see. Why should new players be forced to purchase an incomplete story and then later be told they're missing crucial story elements that was NOT explained on the purchase page? new players will NOT be happy that they can't even begin HoT without seriously missing out on crucial story events that happen in season 2 something that is currently not advertised to players who buy the game off of the website. Both the gw2 shop and steam should update the base price of PoF to include living world seasons 2 and 3 at minimum.

People are not arguing against it. What is being argued against is including that for free with the expansions.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:People are not arguing against it. What is being argued against is including that for free with the expansions.

I don't think that's a reasonable ask. The price should be raised if it's to include the living world episodes, unless the episodes are given for free to all path of fire owners and refunds given to those who purchased episodes using gems. But in general, no, the price should be raised to include seasons 2 and 3.

(I seriously have issues with the way that living world has been monetized but I honestly don't see any good fixes to how it's made, the devs should be paid for their work on these episodes but current players are getting this content for free so i dont know what balance to strike there)

[MokahTGS.7850]

Just for the record, I'm not against ANet charging for the LW content. I just don't agree with their current price points. I think they are not worth as much as an expansion.

I also think it would be very smart for ANet to offer a Steam catch up pack for LW for new players.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

@"aaron.7850" said:Hard to believe some people defend this.

If the game wasn't story driven there would be no problem, but again, as I said... you are buying a movie and then you are told the middle act is sold separately.

Yeah. IMO, expansions should come with the previous living world leading up to it. Maybe as a separate package (one that adds in the cost of the living worlds).

It isn't even that they are expensive either. It is that how can a player be aware. They buy the expansion, then realize "wtf just happened with the plot". They do some digging and realize that some previously unmentioned microtransactions called "living worlds" need to be purchased to fully understand the expansion they just paid full price for.

Of course that'll leave a bad taste in the player's mouth. That is the kind of bad marketing Anet is known for.

There needs to be mechanisms in place to inform buyers about the living worlds and allow for easy purchase of them.

Maybe on Steam, they can be clearly marked in the DLC tabs.

[Durzlla.6295]

Honestly i think it'd be fine if LW2 was tied to the purchase of HoT and LW3 was tied to the purchase of PoF, the other ones can stay as is atm. That way people buying the expansions essentially get the content leading up to the expansion(s). Fortunately the game is so dirt cheap atm that i don't think it's too big of a deal if new players buy the LW updates since they're like, what? $10-20 a season or so? Or like $80 total since Season 1 is still lost to time. which isn't too much of a price for most MMOs, FF14 is $80 + sub, and WoW is like $70 + sub or so?

And that's assuming you're not subbing out any of the actual cash price with gold, and if you're buying it all at once instead of as you sorta encounter it, since it'll probably be a decent chunk of time for a new player to go through ALL of the story at once, especially if they're making alts, and doing world exploration etc etc.

[Linken.6345]

@Durzlla.6295 said:Honestly i think it'd be fine if LW2 was tied to the purchase of HoT and LW3 was tied to the purchase of PoF, the other ones can stay as is atm. That way people buying the expansions essentially get the content leading up to the expansion(s). Fortunately the game is so dirt cheap atm that i don't think it's too big of a deal if new players buy the LW updates since they're like, what? $10-20 a season or so? Or like $80 total since Season 1 is still lost to time. which isn't too much of a price for most MMOs, FF14 is $80 + sub, and WoW is like $70 + sub or so?

And that's assuming you're not subbing out any of the actual cash price with gold, and if you're buying it all at once instead of as you sorta encounter it, since it'll probably be a decent chunk of time for a new player to go through ALL of the story at once, especially if they're making alts, and doing world exploration etc etc.

Wel considering you dont have to buy hot anymore since its bundled up with pof.You still think this is a good idea?

[DrZoroPlus.3976]

The game for the money offer to much free stuff, from storage space, materials space etc. DLC is DLC, someone worked hard on that content, money for voice-overs, etc. Look at ESO how much expensive is from DLC to "Chapters" and I don't want to talk about inventory management.If some other company was managing GW2 for inventory space/materials you will pay per slot, not in the bundle.

[blade eyes.2034]

As someone who has been following the story since season 1, I agree. The living story should come with the expansions even if it means that the expansion will cost more; having a bundle of everything would also be a good idea. Also, I think they need to return season 1, I'm not going to get into it here, but yes, they can return it; they have the technology, and we have seen it in HoT and PoF. I still remember when I tried to get my brother into gw2 many years go, which he played until the personal story, and won't play the living story since he couldn't play season 1. Of course, he lost interest.

[lezbefriends.7516]

The Steam reviews are going to be so bad.

[Vavume.8065]

@aaron.7850 said:When I purchased the expansion it came with HoT. To my dismay I learned that my purchase didn't include any of the Living World stuff that happened between both expansions, I felt like I was scammed honestly.

Understandable, I expect the steam reviews will bomb this game over this.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Maybe but most likely not about the seasons.

[waxx.3619]

@Mortifera.6138 said:The Steam reviews are going to be so bad.

why you say that ?

[battledrone.8315]

@"lokh.2695" said:The game should not change, just because it's going to steam.

if they dont, then they might as well not go on steam at all. steam users are particularly fond of "user friendly"and they still have way too many speed bumps for that title