Is Necro "dead" for pve? (no pun intended)

[Joxer.6024]

When I left GW2 3 yrs ago I was loving my Necro, both as Power and Condi. But since coming back it appears to have become somewhat of a "meme" class now for PVE? Others finding this or is just me and feeling a 3 year gap? I hope they are still wanted as I had fun with mine. ;)

[Methuselah.4376]

If anything necro is in a much better position than it was 3 years ago, with the exception of dps Scourge. Power Reaper has been buffed time and time again, and while Scourge's dps was cut down, its support where it is valuable is still incredible.

[Joxer.6024]

@Methuselah.4376 said:If anything necro is in a much better position than it was 3 years ago, with the exception of dps Scourge. Power Reaper has been buffed time and time again, and while Scourge's dps was cut down, its support where it is valuable is still incredible.

Cheers for that! Thats good to hear. ;)

[Game of Bones.8975]

I've found Necro one of the best PvE roaming professions (along with the Dragonhunter).

I don't min/max, I go for weapons I think fit the character and maybe look cool doing so. I think my fire and ice (Frostfang /Incinerator) combo looks better for my character than swinging a huge greatsword like Twilight (even though I think that sword has some of the best animation).

[Pacificterror.7805]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:I've found Necro one of the best PvE roaming professions (along with the Dragonhunter).

I don't min/max, I go for weapons I think fit the character and maybe look cool doing so. I think my fire and ice (Frostfang /Incinerator) combo looks better for my character than swinging a huge greatsword like Twilight (even though I think that sword has some of the best animation).

Twilight looks so beautiful....I'm very far from grinding for a legendary, but that's the weapon I'd grind for!

--

As long as you're using your chosen specialization to its potential, I think Necro is very strong in general PvE. I don't necessarily hit the right combos/attack chains, but as I get more familiar with my character, I'm finding myself tackling tough situations with greater and greater ease.

[Joxer.6024]

So i guess the question remains.....if I sign up for a raid will I get kicked? yea its been 3 yrs but the fights will come back I am sure so will it be based on class choice? Man I hope not, part of the reason I left before......was hoping things have changed?

[Infusion.7149]

@"Joxer.6024" said:So i guess the question remains.....if I sign up for a raid will I get kicked? yea its been 3 yrs but the fights will come back I am sure so will it be based on class choice? Man I hope not, part of the reason I left before......was hoping things have changed?

There's a few fights people use necro even if it's not optimal if I remember correctly:

• Soulless horror it is meta for epidemic on scourge , it's a condi fight
• Vale Guardian as scourge for red guardian both for learning groups and as a failsafe for casual groups
• Qadim the Peerless as pylon for some PUG groups that don't use deadeye
• Matthias as condi scourge because it's a condi fight
• Cairn as condi scourge
• Mursaat Overseer as condi scourge with epidemic for statues

Nowhere is reaper meta or even typically chosen by PUGs though it has a much easier time on fights where life force generation is available such as Slothasor , siege the stronghold ("escort") , spirit woods, or bandit trio , also in Qadim for lamp. The biggest dilemma for power reaper right now (if you run death perception and soul reaping) is you can either optimize for in shroud and get higher damage in shroud, or try to deal with low shroud uptime scenarios and wasted stats in shroud.

[Dadnir.5038]

Like Methuselas said, the necromancer is in a way better place than it used to be. Reaper actually reach "decent" damage while scourge is taken advantage for spreading condition and carrying less experienced groups with barrier.

The only sore point is that while it's a solid option for unexperienced group, it does not have tools geared toward clearing raid efficiently. This, and the large amount of player using the profession, make the necromancer a profession that tend to not be in high demand for raids.

[Agrippa.1693]

@"Joxer.6024" said:So i guess the question remains.....if I sign up for a raid will I get kicked? yea its been 3 yrs but the fights will come back I am sure so will it be based on class choice? Man I hope not, part of the reason I left before......was hoping things have changed?

Well, for raiding in general the Necro is the least effective class that you can choose. That some people kick you for only that reason is just stupid, and happily ever after doesn't happen that much (as far as I know, at least).

Sure things have changed for the better for the Necro in an absolute sense, they (mostly Reaper) gained some buffs over the years, but other classes did as well. If you look at it from a relative perspective compared to other classes, they're still bottom of the barrel if it comes to usefulness in raids. There's just always a better option available (even for Soulless Horror the Scourge is dethroned now ...)

[lare.5129]

for fractal cms+t4 content necro is ok, optimal have both specs condi scourge, and pwr reaper.Ofc player should check biuld and rotation himself. If show low result some toxic iput can come more wide compared wiht another more special class and biuld.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:There's just always a better option available (even for Soulless Horror the Scourge is dethroned now ...)

It's ironic and somehow funny to see such thing when we know why Epidemic was nerfed...

[Agrippa.1693]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:There's just always a better option available (even for Soulless Horror the Scourge is

dethroned

now

...)

It's ironic and somehow funny to see such thing when we know why

Epidemic

was nerfed...Haha, indeed!I can still remember the community going absolutely

berserk

about epi bounce, and how it had to be nerfed to the ground, cause it was used in certain record runs, but too difficult to pull off by mediocre players.Now that pretty much EVERY single record run is purple, it's all fine, obviously!

[Dadnir.5038]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:There's just always a better option available (even for Soulless Horror the Scourge is

dethroned

now

...)

It's ironic and somehow funny to see such thing when we know why

Epidemic

was nerfed...Haha, indeed!I can still remember the community going absolutely

berserk

about epi bounce, and how it had to be nerfed to the ground, cause it was used in certain record runs, but too difficult to pull off by mediocre players.Now that pretty much EVERY single record run is purple, it's all fine, obviously!

I wouldn't throw the stone to the mesmer, after all ANet isn't kind to them when it come to PvP.

I think Epidemic mainly created such a ruckus because of the time it became popular. With scourge overperforming everywhere at that time, it was a bit hard for some professions historically strong in PvE to bear with the necromancer replacing them even there.

On another hand, mesmer is pretty much invisible in most game mode right now, so it's refreshing to see them being strong in a gamemode where, at this point, they are used to be seen as usefull.

[Wuffy.9732]

I think necro has soley gotten the short end of the stick probably because of the survival rate and sustainability. Anet probably had the mindset in which such a large health pool (and the added lifeforce health pool), dps had to be balanced out to compensate. It think this is the real reason both reaper and scourge have terrible burst dps compared to ele/engie/warrior/guardian.

A full glass pdps reaper can hold more than 19.2k hp with an added 15k lifeforce, while a full glass pdps guardian can hold around 11.9k. It'd make sense why anet would give up necros dps for survivability, but that's just my 2 cents. Frankly, I still think necro is being neglected here. Maybe a re-work of how lifeforce works could help. It's base size is 69% of a player's maximum health (influenced by vitality). 69% is a bit too much in my opinion.

I think Reaper shroud and Scourge Shades should be more bursty, instead of just adding to survivability. But that's just my two cents...

[Agrippa.1693]

@Wuffy.9732 said:I think necro has soley gotten the short end of the stick probably because of the survival rate and sustainability. Anet probably had the mindset in which such a large health pool (and the added lifeforce health pool), dps had to be balanced out to compensate. It think this is the real reason both reaper and scourge have terrible burst dps compared to ele/engie/warrior/guardian.

A full glass pdps reaper can hold more than 19.2k hp with an added 15k lifeforce, while a full glass pdps guardian can hold around 11.9k. It'd make sense why anet would give up necros dps for survivability, but that's just my 2 cents.

How can you explain Warrior then? It has the highest base Health Pool AND Armor Rating (Necro is in the lowest category when it comes to AR)?

Not to mention the fact that if you use shroud as a damage absorbing sponge, you're useless in your role as DPS (as you are mentioning a full glass pdps reaper, I presume you're role is DPS).

[KrHome.1920]

@Wuffy.9732 said:Anet probably had the mindset in which such a large health pool (and the added lifeforce health pool), dps had to be balanced out to compensate. It think this is the real reason both reaper and scourge have terrible burst dps compared to ele/engie/warrior/guardian.No it is the curruptions/strips why necro has a low dps and in case of condi necro a huge ramp up time. Necro is half a control class. You strip and corrupt all the time whether you want it or not. PvE folks just never need the latter and so never notice it. In the competitive modes this becomes a huge factor.

The health pool is irrelevant, esp. compared to guardian that can add a bunch of blocks and still deal more dps than reaper.

[Dadnir.5038]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Wuffy.9732 said:Anet probably had the mindset in which such a large health pool (and the added lifeforce health pool), dps had to be balanced out to compensate. It think this is the real reason both reaper and scourge have terrible burst dps compared to ele/engie/warrior/guardian.No it is the curruptions/strips why necro has a low dps and in case of condi necro a huge ramp up time. Necro is half a control class. You strip and corrupt all the time whether you want it or not. PvE folks just never need the latter and so never notice it. In the competitive modes this becomes a huge factor.

The health pool is irrelevant, esp. compared to guardian that can add a bunch of blocks and still deal more dps than reaper.

Basically that.

The necromancer have huge potential that just cannot be unearthed in PvE due to PvE design. Be it boon conversion or condition transfert, if the necromancer had a suitable environment in PvE, it's condi dps would probably easily be over the current top condi dps. Unfortunately, ANet's way to implement conditions on PvE encounter is just horrid and boon conversion is just an illsuited mechanism for group content (without taking into account that bosses could careless about boons that could be converted into harmful one thanks to defiance).

[Wuffy.9732]

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Wuffy.9732 said:I think necro has soley gotten the short end of the stick probably because of the survival rate and sustainability. Anet probably had the mindset in which such a large health pool (and the added lifeforce health pool), dps had to be balanced out to compensate. It think this is the real reason both reaper and scourge have terrible burst dps compared to ele/engie/warrior/guardian.

A full glass pdps reaper can hold more than 19.2k hp with an added 15k lifeforce, while a full glass pdps guardian can hold around 11.9k. It'd make sense why anet would give up necros dps for survivability, but that's just my 2 cents.

How can you explain Warrior then? It has the highest base Health Pool AND Armor Rating (Necro is in the lowest category when it comes to AR)?

Not to mention the fact that if you use shroud as a damage absorbing sponge, you're useless in your role as DPS (as you are mentioning a full glass pdps reaper, I presume you're role is DPS).

But warrior does not have life force pool. I agree though, reaper should be able to compete with pdps warrior in terms of burst.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Wuffy.9732 said:Anet probably had the mindset in which such a large health pool (and the added lifeforce health pool), dps had to be balanced out to compensate. It think this is the real reason both reaper and scourge have terrible burst dps compared to ele/engie/warrior/guardian.No it is the curruptions/strips why necro has a low dps and in case of condi necro a huge ramp up time. Necro is half a control class. You strip and corrupt all the time whether you want it or not. PvE folks just never need the latter and so never notice it. In the competitive modes this becomes a huge factor.

The health pool is irrelevant, esp. compared to guardian that can add a bunch of blocks and still deal more dps than reaper.

Honestly, A good guardian knows how to rotate aegis. I love my dragon hunter for that exact reason. But most players depend too much on druid/hb to actually rotate their skills or dodge.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

To me, necro (reaper mainly) isn't dead; actually I see a lot of reapers even in raids; but most of them are ... kinda low.... I won't lie.Reaper has huge potential; DPS close to DH with more cleave, more tankiness, self might, precision, quickness; plus you have strong skills like spectral grasp or wells for ranged aoe, you have strong CC, you also have a lot of boon corruption with GS, Axe, and utility skills if needed. It's a good class for Strike/DRM for example; but also Fractals. A bit less for raids, even if it works (I already done 10 reapers party, lot of fun, and success)Scourge is meh DPS, but the healscourge has its utility; of course barriers, but also mights, regen, condi conversion, boon corruption, grasp ... If you manage to have quicknesss, fury with DH/FB or chrono, actually Scourge isn't bad in a 5-men group, or as second healer in 10-men squad.

There is a reason Necro is unpopular :It's the "noob" class, since minion master necro in dungeons farm; and so most of necro are too low in HL content. Reaper with no rotation, Scourge that just spam AA or spam barriers AFTER attacks ... It doesn't help others players to observe and appreciate the potentiel of the class.Plus it lacks good offensive buff, like banner, frost spirit, or quickness ... but IMO a tweak to Vampiric Presence could fiw it.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Wuffy.9732" said:Anet probably had the mindset in which such a large health pool (and the added lifeforce health pool), dps had to be balanced out to compensate. It think this is the real reason both reaper and scourge have terrible burst dps compared to ele/engie/warrior/guardian.No it is the curruptions/strips why necro has a low dps and in case of condi necro a huge ramp up time. Necro is half a control class. You strip and corrupt all the time whether you want it or not. PvE folks just never need the latter and so never notice it. In the competitive modes this becomes a huge factor.

The health pool is irrelevant, esp. compared to guardian that can add a bunch of blocks and still deal more dps than reaper.

Basically that.

The necromancer have huge potential that just cannot be unearthed in PvE due to PvE design. Be it boon conversion or condition transfert, if the necromancer had a suitable environment in PvE, it's condi dps would probably easily be over the current top condi dps. Unfortunately, ANet's way to implement conditions on PvE encounter is just horrid and boon conversion is just an illsuited mechanism for group content (without taking into account that bosses could careless about boons that could be converted into harmful one thanks to defiance).

^ All good points!Arenanet does not want Necro to have dps or utility based on player skill. This is why damage and support scales so flat. Epidemic bouncing took skill and team coordination. It was not at all "piano play" some value a lot but required tracking the environment, calling a combination start and listening for the call to finish.

There are many other opportunities Arenanet can use to scale performance based on player skill. Timing barrier before an incoming AoE is another example of skill before memorization. Arenanet could certainly do more to increase potential to improve or reduce Necromancer combat performance depending on player skill but the elite specializations and core tend to purposely avoid that.

[Shaogin.2679]

You honestly shouldn't have any issue finding groups for raids. You may have issues getting into a static speed run group, or a pug wannabe speed run group. So far though, I play Power Reaper, Condi Scourge, and Heal Scourge, and have had no issues, and have never been kicked for being a Necromancer. Also, in less organized groups, you may actually perform better than others in the group due to Necromancers being very selfish and generally self reliant, and Heal Scourge is amazing for carrying pugs.

[Joxer.6024]

@Shaogin.2679 said:You honestly shouldn't have any issue finding groups for raids. You may have issues getting into a static speed run group, or a pug wannabe speed run group. So far though, I play Power Reaper, Condi Scourge, and Heal Scourge, and have had no issues, and have never been kicked for being a Necromancer. Also, in less organized groups, you may actually perform better than others in the group due to Necromancers being very selfish and generally self reliant, and Heal Scourge is amazing for carrying pugs.

Cheers for that!! Thats good to hear!! ;)

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

@"Joxer.6024" said:When I left GW2 3 yrs ago I was loving my Necro, both as Power and Condi. But since coming back it appears to have become somewhat of a "meme" class now for PVE? Others finding this or is just me and feeling a 3 year gap? I hope they are still wanted as I had fun with mine. ;)

Power reaper is meh, it is fine but not anything special and is usually outclassed by other classes, condi necro is dead as a doorknob and support is the best way to play scourge but usually better off playing a different support, but if you where hoping for condi damage build, that is been dead for a LONG time. the main unique role of the necro at the moment is boon corrupt bot.

[Obtena.7952]

It's simply a function of how you play. It's only dead if you let other people you play with tell you can't play it.

[Axl.8924]

Necro is not dead in pve.

Sure it suffers from having dps behind other classes and support, but i guess if your in a guild and know how to do it, your still viable.

And for fractals: Like others said. I think personally necro is good for fractals.

Reaper is really good in fractals, scourge can be good because on demand boon corrupt and condi corrupt, and those boon corrupts are noticeable.

If nec has a issue, its that it cannot corrupt boons or condis in raids, and some of its CC have little to no values. Because of this, it is extremely niche and not as much desired, but its vastly improved in DPS over the years and closed the gap on reaper.