Dragonhunter and trapper rune nerfs are WAY WAY WAY overdue

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

8 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

A bunch of a scrubs who can't beat DH's for shame...

Not sure if you know this, but everyone can see your SR. You are 1232, barely out of Silver.  I came back to the forums for a few days now and consistently see you spitting misinformation and just being rude. 

 

You clearly don't know how DH operates and how oppressive it is. You play with it and against it at a very low skill level. 

 

You went and made a thread about how you quit Mesmer and have over a thousand hours on it. Going on about how terrible the class is, but you are barely out of Silver. You clearly do not know how the game operates or have any understanding of the fundamentals. You don't know how to play Mesmer and you gave up on it. It seems like you have never learned how to properly cycle through your defensive cooldowns. I don't think you have the slightest clue as to why DH is very powerful. 

 

You can talk the talk but clearly there is no walk. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[vilesoldier.9826]

10 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

You clearly don't know how DH operates and how oppressive it is. You play with it and against it at a very low skill level. 

 

I don't think you have the slightest clue as to why DH is very powerful. 

 

You can talk the talk but clearly there is no walk. 

 

*ding ding* we got a winner folks!

 

**short caveat, this isn’t a hard fast rule for every DH player (counters exist, misplays happen, people refuse to learn their opponent’s skills, etc), but forum discourse seems to follow pretty close.**

 

in all honesty, it seems evident to me that those faithfully defending DH by touting its weaknesses, (to an extent) Do not know how to be oppressive with DH. 

 

*to an extent bc ofc there are builds that hard counter, are very strong against every other build, etc so you can’t expect to be “oppressive” against everyone.

 

but for those builds that do comfortably fall into a DH’s “oppressable” category, I have more and more confidence that these players do not perform that well.

It’s as if they see a player dodge True shot once then they stiffen up & forget they have insane repositioning ability with trapper rune. then come to forum to say it’s a “noob stomper” build when that’s the only people they can reliably beat.

 

and frankly i don’t care much to elaborate on what “high level DH” looks like. I see like 4 DHs in a month of Pvp and 1/4 actually understand how to keep distance and control ranged pressure so the only option left is burning dodges with traps in melee. And of the 1/4 that actually give me trouble, I still wouldn’t go so far as to say they are OP, again it’s rly annoying at its worst. I think the most accurate way to describe DH’s strength (at least against my builds) is the ability to consistently be out of reach when you want to apply damage, while also burning your resources so it’s melee pressure can’t be avoided.

And to give high level DHs their due credit, even their skill at abusing their strengths can really only make up for so much, when there are builds like MMs that bring zoos to fights.

 

last note:

players used to fighting DHs are not walking through traps, they are barely taking damage from it on their own. idk why trap damage is even discussed as a counter to “trapper rune should be nerfed”.

”high level” DHs know this too, that their traps are useful in two situations: to burn dodges/stunbreaks and when the opponent is out of the aforementioned.

Edited August 29, 2021 by GeneralBM.5781

[Ragnar.4257]

Man, look at that, another monthly tournament with all teams just stacking 5x DH.

 

Oh..... wait......

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Just now, Ragnar.4257 said:

Man, look at that, another monthly tournament with all teams just stacking 5x DH.

 

Oh..... wait......

i guess necro is the only op spec then?

[Ragnar.4257]

59 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

i guess necro is the only op spec then?

What necros? I only saw DH's.

 

I mean, it's so clearly OP. Just look at the list of teams that ran trapper DH:

 

List of teams:

 

 

 

End of list.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[greedywholesome.9081]

DH with trapper runes is a bigger threat than trapper ranger ALTHOUGH a trapper ranger can beat a DH on the same runes 1v1 if specced correctly. 

 

Condi trapper ranger build is ok but power is slightly better because shortbow is garbage. 

[vilesoldier.9826]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

i guess necro is the only op spec then?

 

shhhh soon they'll actually realize the only people claiming that "people think trapper DH is OP" are themselves 

 

like they got the whole squad laughing 😐

Edited August 29, 2021 by GeneralBM.5781

[Axl.8924]

I am no expert in guardians by any chance no even good, but i heard DH aren-t very good without trapper rune. If its true not saying it is, how do you plan to fix the problem to make sure DH is still viable?

[CutesySylveon.8290]

On 8/28/2021 at 9:36 PM, Ragnar.4257 said:

Man, look at that, another monthly tournament with all teams just stacking 5x DH.

 

Oh..... wait......

Because the only standard we have to evaluate a build is by how many teams run it in tournaments. Got it. 

 

Or not because that's just ridiculous. The build itself isn't even the problem, it's the Rune that carries it.

[Ragnar.4257]

48 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Because the only standard we have to evaluate a build is by how many teams run it in tournaments. Got it. 

 

Or not because that's just ridiculous. The build itself isn't even the problem, it's the Rune that carries it.

So, the fact that for, not just one, but multiple tournaments in a row, not just one, but NONE of the teams seriously competing take this build, that doesn't suggest to you that it is infact not actually as strong as people are claiming?

 

Sure 1 team in 1 tournament not taking it would be silly to extrapolate anything from that. But we're not. We have alot more data.

 

What trapper DH is is annoying. There is a world of difference between "annoying" and "OP". But apparently most players can't tell the difference.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[RedAvenged.5217]

8 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

So, the fact that for, not just one, but multiple tournaments in a row, not just one, but NONE of the teams seriously competing take this build, that doesn't suggest to you that it is infact not actually as strong as people are claiming?

 

Sure 1 team in 1 tournament not taking it would be silly to extrapolate anything from that. But we're not. We have alot more data.

 

What trapper DH is is annoying. There is a world of difference between "annoying" and "OP". But apparently most players can't tell the difference.

That’s not true at all- some of the better teams on Na have played with 2 dhs. Last time I saw it they lost to one of the top teams in a timer match by like 5 points 

[Ragnar.4257]

51 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

That’s not true at all- some of the better teams on Na have played with 2 dhs. Last time I saw it they lost to one of the top teams in a timer match by like 5 points 

Wauw, 1 time.

 

I guess by this standard, Spellbreaker and Chronomancer are also clearly too strong and in need of nerfs.

 

There is a difference between a single data point and a trend. The trend is very clear. This build is not strong enough to be worthy of a spot in a serious competitive team.

 

The reason being that

 

a) it's too easy for a co-ordinated team to focus down

b) it can't hold a node for even a short time into any duelist

c) it's easily shut down by projectile denial

d) outside of its burst, it has quite weak sustained damage

 

This puts it in the same category as GS-mesmer, sceptre-Ele, Rifle-zerker, etc. Yes it can farm you hard if you let it. But all it takes is a decent thief or rev having the discipline to port onto it whenever it stops hiding, and it becomes alot less useeful.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Remove DH, they're the only spec doing any meaningful damage to my overlord necro at the moment. I don't like that.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

2 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

So, the fact that for, not just one, but multiple tournaments in a row, not just one, but NONE of the teams seriously competing take this build, that doesn't suggest to you that it is infact not actually as strong as people are claiming?

 

Sure 1 team in 1 tournament not taking it would be silly to extrapolate anything from that. But we're not. We have alot more data.

 

What trapper DH is is annoying. There is a world of difference between "annoying" and "OP". But apparently most players can't tell the difference.

I wouldn't even call it annoying unless they're +1'ing you. In a straight 1v1, as long as you know what you're doing, they aren't winning. They're super squishy once you strip Aegis. Plenty of classes can strip or proc Aegis from afar.

Their stealth is literally useless as long as someone's on top of them. And with the amount of chill, cripple and root necromancers bring to the table, their superspeed is negligible at best.

Edited August 30, 2021 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[RedAvenged.5217]

3 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Wauw, 1 time.

 

I guess by this standard, Spellbreaker and Chronomancer are also clearly too strong and in need of nerfs.

 

There is a difference between a single data point and a trend. The trend is very clear. This build is not strong enough to be worthy of a spot in a serious competitive team.

 

The reason being that

 

a) it's too easy for a co-ordinated team to focus down

b) it can't hold a node for even a short time into any duelist

c) it's easily shut down by projectile denial

d) outside of its burst, it has quite weak sustained damage

 

This puts it in the same category as GS-mesmer, sceptre-Ele, Rifle-zerker, etc. Yes it can farm you hard if you let it. But all it takes is a decent thief or rev having the discipline to port onto it whenever it stops hiding, and it becomes alot less useeful.

Nah dh is great, leagues above rifle zerker- that’s just such a stupid comparison.

 

but anyways it doesn’t really need balance changes if they bring everything else down they could either nerf dh or take away trapper rune, not both though...

[CutesySylveon.8290]

17 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

So, the fact that for, not just one, but multiple tournaments in a row, not just one, but NONE of the teams seriously competing take this build, that doesn't suggest to you that it is infact not actually as strong as people are claiming?

 

Sure 1 team in 1 tournament not taking it would be silly to extrapolate anything from that. But we're not. We have alot more data.

 

What trapper DH is is annoying. There is a world of difference between "annoying" and "OP". But apparently most players can't tell the difference.

You completely missed my point, almost comically so. Tournament usage isn't the only standard we judge a build by. Something doesn't have to dominate tournaments with 4 per team to be a problem. And again, the build DH uses isn't even the problem but the overbloated Rune. There is 0 argument that Trapper runes do too much and should be nerfed or removed. This would also open the door for DH's problems to be legitimately addressed rather than being patched by Trapper and getting the wrong stuff nerfed AGAIN.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 hour ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

You completely missed my point, almost comically so. Tournament usage isn't the only standard we judge a build by.

Very true. The complainer's mediocre skill level and refusal to adapt and learn do, more often than not, play the largest role.

DH is a niche that sucks against plenty of meta picks. Complainers are most likely necromancer players who are angry at the audacity of being forced to dodge roll.

Edited August 31, 2021 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[Hexs.8015]

I've stopped playing pvp entirely due to how unfun it is to play against this trapper dragon hunter / Necro meta. It's pushing me away towards other games, which is something you'd think Anet would be loathe to do. No drama, just facts

 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Hexs.8015

[Guirssane.7082]

7 minutes ago, Hexs.8015 said:

I've stopped playing pvp entirely due to how unfun it is to play against trapper dragon hunter. It's pushing me away towards other games, which is something you'd think Anet would be loathe to do. No drama, just facts

 

 

Imagine stopping pvp because of DH when the real threat right now is necro o_o

[SevlisBavles.3059]

Just remove trapper rune in general, it's dumb on Rangers too. 

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

DH with trapper runes I would not call OP (as it is now), I think however most people find it annoying, like most stealth builds in the game and most people are not used to Guard having lots of access to mobility via superspeed meaning it actually has a chance to disengage.

I don't see trapper rune builds very often in WvW/PvP or DH much at all anymore, I play DH without trapper runes and often times not even running a single trap and I can't remember the last time I lost to a trapper build without it being a +1. I will say that I would be totally fine with trapper runes being nerfed or removed, however I also would expect to see the few DHs out there to probably trade it in for another class.

 

I also don't think DH NEEDS buffs to account for the loss of trapper runes, I would like to see some bug and weapon fixes however and then look at where it ends up in the meta after. Two main ones I would like to see are scepter tracking and hammer, with the swiftness/superspeed meta hammer often requires precasting and a utility to land it's burst.

[Exile.8160]

4 hours ago, TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

DH with trapper runes I would not call OP (as it is now), I think however most people find it annoying, like most stealth builds in the game and most people are not used to Guard having lots of access to mobility via superspeed meaning it actually has a chance to disengage.

I don't see trapper rune builds very often in WvW/PvP or DH much at all anymore, I play DH without trapper runes and often times not even running a single trap and I can't remember the last time I lost to a trapper build without it being a +1. I will say that I would be totally fine with trapper runes being nerfed or removed, however I also would expect to see the few DHs out there to probably trade it in for another class.

 

I also don't think DH NEEDS buffs to account for the loss of trapper runes, I would like to see some bug and weapon fixes however and then look at where it ends up in the meta after. Two main ones I would like to see are scepter tracking and hammer, with the swiftness/superspeed meta hammer often requires precasting and a utility to land it's burst.

 

All dps options for guard need buffs tbh.

[Guirssane.7082]

18 minutes ago, Exile.8160 said:

 

All dps options for guard need buffs tbh.

Core Guard isn't bad at all but it's far from being super strong indeed

[Chips.7968]

Go to wonder why on earth they ever removed thief traps when compared to other classes traps. They were tiny (thin line only), easy as hell to dodge, and yet apparently combined with trapper runes they were so overpowered that Anet kept the trapper runes but removed traps entirely as the *ONLY* viable solution.

 

Preparations are, as their name suggests, not even worth shoving up your ar... No-one uses them full stop. Brilliant.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Chips.7968

[Sovarica.4368]

Does the warrior rifle obliterate DH using the unblockable Signet?