New Patch notes ? ArenaNet What are you doing? [Merged]

[MrTJpwnz.4710]

2 minutes ago, Thundabolt.8541 said:

are you complaining about them removing an unintended side-effect of build templates?

 

you lost the ability to do something you couldn't do before build templates were a thing, if you've bought into BTs because of an oversight then that's on you. it's not the end of the world, it's just back to the old speedrun strats.

The change affects both template swapping or manual swapping

[Math.5123]

17 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

I’m curious how pre-stacking boons constitutes skilled gameplay. It seems to be an established way to circumvent encounter mechanics in a way that does not promote more active, skilled play.

 

N.B.: This is not to say those who pre-stacked were not skilled, only that they will continue to be skilled without pre-stacking, whereas those dependent on it were probably not as skilled as pre-stacking allowed them to appear.

Solo AC runs on ele relied on self-stacking might.

So does a lot of guardian solos and lowmans in general. Using swiftness and weapon ports to move around faster and more fluently all added to what constitute a good player in the dungeon scene. 

Take the latest sorrows embrace p3 record by SC as a prime example. They completed the path in 1 minute and 45 seconds. Most people wouldn't even be able to run from start to finish in that amount of time, yet clear bosses on the way. 

 

If you have never seen a dungeon speedclear, you should look it up to see what this change does to that scene. 

[shrew.3059]

1 minute ago, Math.5123 said:

Solo AC runs on ele relied on self-stacking might.

So does a lot of guardian solos and lowmans in general. Using swiftness and weapon ports to move around faster and more fluently all added to what constitute a good player in the dungeon scene. 

Take the latest sorrows embrace p3 record by SC as a prime example. They completed the path in 1 minute and 45 seconds. Most people wouldn't even be able to run from start to finish in that amount of time, yet clear bosses on the way. 

 

If you have never seen a dungeon speedclear, you should look it up to see what this change does to that scene. 

 

I certainly appreciate the skill for solo clears and speed runs, but also realise that this was something likely unintended by ANet. As much as we like to push the limits of what we can do in their sandbox, it is fundamentally their sandbox. This may be unfortunate for those communities, but it’s not the same as them removing intended content. As far as speed runs are concerned, they will still find impressive ways to push the boundaries, just within the design constraints set by ANet.

[Loboling.5293]

I see why some are frustrated with this change, and frankly for PvE I semi agree. However, the introduction of build and gear templates made this so much easier, that it was basically a pay to win feature. I still don't really mind for PvE, since I don't take that stuff seriously, and I think fun is most important for PvE.

With that said, I think this change is indicating something amazing. I think this change was made primarily for WvW. Since, that's the only place there explanation makes much sense. You can disable people's skins in WvW & PvP already, but if this was indeed causing loses to performance for everyone, then I think this shows they are truly and finally going to invest some energy into WvW again. 

With Alliances coming, and performance being better. And the introduction potentially of builds like Willbender, which seem designed to break zergs, but be weak in smallscale. I think we may be seeing one of the biggest meta shifts in WvW soon. And I'm very excited about that idea. WvW got stale a long time ago, and although it's still fun to hop in a bit, it used to be considered the endgame of gw2. If they can bring in more strategy into WvW and increase stability, and this change is part of that plan. I'm in full support of it. 

I think this swapping mechanic is toxic in WvW anyway. 

I hope I'm right and this isn't just some random PvE change aimed to reduce skill caps, and frustrate veterans, but give nothing to anyone truly. Unless they had an inferiority complex over others who would pull off these wicked combos. 

[BobbyT.7192]

35 minutes ago, Loboling.5293 said:

 I hope I'm right and this isn't just some random PvE change aimed to reduce skill caps, and frustrate veterans, but give nothing to anyone truly. Unless they had an inferiority complex over others who would pull off these wicked combos. 

TBH I'm pretty sure this is the actually reasoning. Its within the track record.

 

Though your WvW idea is probably another good reason and would make sense given the alliance battles are coming 

Edited August 31, 2021 by BobbyT.7192
grammer

[Loboling.5293]

I actually hadn't played with this change yet, and I think the change is a little heavy handed in PvE. And downright broken at other times. (Kind of like how they nerfed minionmancer for everything other than afk farming, with the removal of pets on mounting)

I'd like to see this change reverted in PvE, until they can iron out the issues with it. 

If a necro casts spectral walk, or a thief shadowstep, and they swap weapons, they shouldn't lose the return port. Honestly, I find this change unnecessary anyway for PvE. I hope it leads to something good for WvW though. 

[Jokuc.3478]

1 hour ago, shrew.3059 said:

I’m curious how pre-stacking boons constitutes skilled gameplay.

 

It's not that pre-stacking is considered skilled gameplay, it's that switching your build while maintaining boons allows for skilled gameplay. If you wish to do a Siax speed clear for example you want to run as much dps as possible and not use a healer or pure support build. A lot of the optimal burst builds relies on boons to perform well however and you need to prestack with another weapon to get those.

 

What's more important to me though is the fact that this change dumbs down movement and map navigation during speed runs. Here it's not about pre-stacking to do the bosses easier or whatever but about active stacking of movement improving boons or utilizing weapon specific skills on the go such as swapping from scepter to sword on Guard to teleport while out of combat or quickly swap from Dragonhunter to Firebrand to give yourself Vigor in order to get another dodge for a specific area. The things I listed above is something that takes practice and thus makes it skilled gameplay. As someone who does a lot of Dungeons using these things, this patch is a punch in the guts from ANet.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Jokuc.3478

[shrew.3059]

2 minutes ago, Jokuc.3478 said:

 

It's not that pre-stacking is considered skilled gameplay, it's that switching your build while maintaining boons allows for skilled gameplay. If you wish to do a Siax speed clear for example you want to run as much dps as possible and not use a healer or pure support build. A lot of the optimal burst builds relies on boons to perform well however and you need to prestack with another weapon to get those. What's more important to me though is the fact that this change dumbs down movement and map navigation during speed runs. Here it's not about pre-stacking to do the bosses easier or whatever but about active stacking of movement improving boons or utilizing weapon specific skills on the go such as swapping from scepter to sword on Guard to teleport while out of combat or quickly swap from Dragonhunter to Firebrand to give yourself Vigor in order to get another dodge for a specific area. As someone who does a lot of Dungeon using these things this patch is a punch in the guts from ANet.

 

Gotcha. I’d rather they find ways to support this sort of gameplay within their ruleset (since pre-stacking clearly wasn’t), since it highlights the community’s creativity. The danger of pushing the boundaries of ANet’s design is that occasionally ANet will push back. Some of that pushback might be a fear of the design breaking, both from a technical and gameplay perspective.

[Jokuc.3478]

37 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Gotcha. I’d rather they find ways to support this sort of gameplay within their ruleset (since pre-stacking clearly wasn’t), since it highlights the community’s creativity. The danger of pushing the boundaries of ANet’s design is that occasionally ANet will push back. Some of that pushback might be a fear of the design breaking, both from a technical and gameplay perspective.

Despite my opinion that boons should not be removed when you swap weapons, things such as using specilization-specific buff-traits (ranger buffs for example or perfect inscriptions on guard) before switching build then going mistlock to squeeze out a tiny bit more damage IS something I think should be removed. The same with you being able to place dragonhunter traps on raid bosses and switching to firebrand before the boss starts to get more dps. Those things should not stay.

[Beorn Raukar.4328]

Prestacking is still possible. The only difference is you can only prestack things that you mean to take to the fight.

[JekthAvid.1408]

To everyone crying: now you can play the game as intended! Hooray!

[Fangoth.4503]

8 hours ago, xfrozzenx.7528 said:

Theres more of an fps drop using the god awful gemstore capes than there is from swapping your templates rapidly

yes but now they can make fancier one for more gems 🤢

[Fangoth.4503]

1 hour ago, JekthAvid.1408 said:

To everyone crying: now you can play the game as intended! Hooray!

using skills out of combat = not intended content? then just disable skill when out of combat instead of doing that😉

[Kondor.2904]

At least servers are stable now 🙂

[Fangoth.4503]

7 minutes ago, Kondor.2904 said:

At least servers are stable now 🙂

yeah was definitively these 100 players that were making server lagging by using 3 more skill (in instanced map) and not than the other (i guess at least 10k) online players with those ugly backpack (and now cape) that you still cannot even desactivate by playing on lower setting 👍

 

[Xanadrine.4352]

If this is about fps drop umm the visual vomit on the screen would like a word. All that stuff going off the spells the infusions the shiny skin effects that causes more issues than some group in fractals boon stacking and swapping gear sets.

[Xanadrine.4352]

4 minutes ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

yeah was definitively these 100 players that were making server lagging by using 3 more skill (in instanced map) and not than the other (i guess at least 10k) online players with those ugly backpack (and now cape) that you still cannot even desactivate by playing on lower setting 👍

 

Oh I agree the visual clutter in this game is obscene, now when they update the potato engine to dx11 or 12 it will smooth things out for people better multithreading better fps. 

[Kondor.2904]

So, basically the change doesn't just affect 0.01% of seepdrunners but it cucks the game for everyone who is more or less actively uses its class kit.

For example, if I'm in a squad, in the middle of certain meta, and after killing a champion or a pack of  adds, upon getting ooc I want to quickly swap my weapon or a single trait to have a different utility or a more efficient trait for the next wave of mobs/champion, I'm losing every single boon my fellow squad members shared with me. If I forgot to change the traits or a weapon right before the meta boss, game cucks me for that now. If my friend shared swiftness with me, I can't do anything to my build or gear for the whole duration now. Basically every time I get a boon ooc in any gamemode, I'm forced to be stuck on the same build and gear or I get punished. 

10/10 change. Big brain move. Hope servers are saved now.

[Substance E.4852]

While I generally endorse any attempt to remove people's ability to confuse "cheese and exploits" with "skill", this does seem like an odd thing to care about at this point in the game's life where "speed clearing" things is pretty much the only reason a large chunk of instanced content players even still bother logging in

Also seems rather dumb given that you are expected to pre-buff prior to activating a strike fight and presumably will have a similar system in the EoD strikes

[mercury ranique.2170]

First off all. When making a topic here, please consider using clear titles that explain the content of your post. It helps attrack people who are interested into your topic.

Secondly. People where speedclearing/solo-ing group-content way before build templates and although it might help make it easier, it is not offten required.

But more importantly, you may play the game anyway you like (this was promoted before launch), but the content is designed for groups of 5 people or more. In this light it is unrealistic to expect to be able to play such content in a way it is not designed for and be supported by it. 

One catches more flies with honey then with vinegar. A good titles helps. Also showing understanding for the reasons why they made this change (the change notes give a very valid option). So you could also show some understanding for this change, while still pleading for the effect it has on this "niche" in the game. You can even go so far as to ask them to give something back. I do think that they might be sensitive for such a request. But obviously not with the tone you are setting in your post.

[Endilbiach.4132]

There's SO much salt in this thread complaining about not being to exploit game mechanics that weren't working as intended that just reading it has made me set up a doctors appointment to check my sodium levels.

Seriously, this was not something they intended to have in the game, and now they've fixed it.  Deal with it.

[ASP.8093]

Very sad that I can no longer pre-stack a minute of Swiftness right before the Flying Dolyak race tbqh.

[Mik.3401]

The silver lining is that it will increase difficulty cap of the game which is nice thing to have.

What I loved in guild wars 1 was that choosing a build was a single decision set in stone for the period of given group run etc.

This stimulates players to be strategic with what they have and really pay attention to making a good team build, any idiot can just change spec out of fight to do something else for different encounter.

And this is what I think everyone know here, just no one wants to admit - this was just an exploit and kind of pay to win with additional templates - not serious gaming skills

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

2 hours ago, mercury ranique.2170 said:

First off all. When making a topic here, please consider using clear titles that explain the content of your post. It helps attrack people who are interested into your topic.

Secondly. People where speedclearing/solo-ing group-content way before build templates and although it might help make it easier, it is not offten required.

But more importantly, you may play the game anyway you like (this was promoted before launch), but the content is designed for groups of 5 people or more. In this light it is unrealistic to expect to be able to play such content in a way it is not designed for and be supported by it. 

One catches more flies with honey then with vinegar. A good titles helps. Also showing understanding for the reasons why they made this change (the change notes give a very valid option). So you could also show some understanding for this change, while still pleading for the effect it has on this "niche" in the game. You can even go so far as to ask them to give something back. I do think that they might be sensitive for such a request. But obviously not with the tone you are setting in your post.

People were prestacking manualy. Swaping diferent weapons on ele to get might and fury was common.

This removes both template swaping but also manual swaping which was here from the start

[Dante.1763]

1 hour ago, Mik.3401 said:

The silver lining is that it will increase difficulty cap of the game which is nice thing to have.

What I loved in guild wars 1 was that choosing a build was a single decision set in stone for the period of given group run etc.

This stimulates players to be strategic with what they have and really pay attention to making a good team build, any idiot can just change spec out of fight to do something else for different encounter.

And this is what I think everyone know here, just no one wants to admit - this was just an exploit and kind of pay to win with additional templates - not serious gaming skills

Nah thats my line of thinking for awhile. As to why care now, maybe it was getting out of hand in anets eyes. *shrug*.