Nerf Necromancer

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 hour ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Did you not pay attention for the past 2 pages? Swinging the hammer is what kills pvp...both the nerf hammer and the buff hammer.

This is the difference between teories and practice. Everyone, who has a lot of expirience in different pvp games knows that a game dies as soon as it has no more constant meta shakes. The biggest problem gw2 has now is hammer swinging not often enough.
No pvp game must have balance. Bcoz noone in their mind will play a true balanced game. Rather, we need constant shakes, so people won't get frustrated with something being too strong or too weak for too much time.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

36 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

This is the difference between teories and practice. Everyone, who has a lot of expirience in different pvp games knows that a game dies as soon as it has no more constant meta shakes. The biggest problem gw2 has now is hammer swinging not often enough.
No pvp game must have balance. Bcoz noone in their mind will play a true balanced game. Rather, we need constant shakes, so people won't get frustrated with something being too strong or too weak for too much time.

A-net could always near perfectly balance classes (as they kitten should) and then use amulets/sigils/runes to do that "shaking meta" thingie, otherwise you must stop playing LoL or Dota 2 and trying to apply that MOBA/Hearthstone balance logic in MMORPG.
There also could have created a system to "block" certain specces from available playable pool in PvP, thus "shaking meta" without even doing anything to change it, this way people would be forced every x weeks to change builds and find new one to fight against new random pool. Currently classes have more than enough of possible choices/tools to justify that.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

49 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

This is the difference between teories and practice. Everyone, who has a lot of experience in different pvp games knows that a game dies as soon as it has no more constant meta shakes. The biggest problem gw2 has now is hammer swinging not often enough.
No pvp game must have balance. Bcoz noone in their mind will play a true balanced game. Rather, we need constant shakes, so people won't get frustrated with something being too strong or too weak for too much time.

 

How's this for a pvp game

 

Chess

 

It's been left untouched for what...almost 2000 years? Anyone know when chess was invented? Do people still play chess?

 

Okay well chess is perfectly balanced game you say...what about basketball then...soccer, football, baseball...any sport actually...when was the last time those had any "balance updates."

 

Good games are timeless...good games don't NEED balance updates to stay relevant. It's game mechanics and it's ruleset that make them relevant. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Spellhunter.9675]

19 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

How's this for a pvp game

 

Chess

 

It's been left untouched for what...almost 2000 years? Anyone know when chess was invented? Do people still play chess?

 

Chess in modern state is just about 170 years. It still gets changes. But the nature of chess allows "meta shakes" even without any changes in it's basics. Also, chess is not perfectly balanced in mathematical way.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

5 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Chess in modern state is just about 170 years. It still gets changes. But the nature of chess allows "meta shakes" even without any changes in it's basics. Also, chess is not perfectly balanced in mathematical way.

I think your off by about a thousand years

 

Also, chess is not perfectly balanced in mathematical way.

 

Great. Further proving my points.

[Morwath.9817]

3 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Did you not pay attention for the past 2 pages? Swinging the hammer is what kills pvp...both the nerf hammer and the buff hammer.

Yes, there is nothing worse than overbuffing and overnerfing. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

bump

 

It is now the standard to have 2+ necros on each team; the last 2 matches had 5/10 and 6/10 necros.

 

@Cal Cohen.2358 @Cal Cohen.3527it's time to wake up, buddy.  Specifically, it's time to stop with the slap-on-the-wrist nerfs that don't address the core issues that make Necro OP and toxic to the game mode. 

 

That Necro is overperforming is indisputable.  So is the fact it has been overperforming for a  very long time.  It's long overdue to make some meaningful changes.  The recommendations made in the OP of this thread would be a great place to start. 

[ZerotheFang.5890]

necro over performing is not really issue its just there are more of that class due to easy use, if anything people going use one class over and over regardless of nerfs so if there are more a population of necros in spvp then other classes that's just going be, if there is an increase in another class that makes the class easier to people will flock to them but since some elites are button-mash rotations of insanity you left with an over population of 1 class, its like tera and its problem with reaper when it came out you had an insane amount all over the place in pvp/other modes just cause they where press space combo button to win. issue is more stability of other classes then just going say hey lets nerf 1 class into ground cause its too OP, because one change to something regardless of what it is will effect other classes as well.

any change to condi effects all condi classes see the torment change, loss of retaliation effected couple classes, other issue is lot of people do not sometimes understand how aoe damage works and will in all fairness stand in the death circle, I feel anet needs to put the old pvp introduction training area thing into the lobby again so people can retrain how to dodge or see effects or something. but that's me. I would like to play DH more but it feels too weak now cause certain things are nerfed a bit and I do get over condi, heck would like to learn warrior but every build seems like i am using paper gear and die in 2 seconds. I used to use ele/druid but loss of healing setups made playing them kind of useless

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:21 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

A-net could always near perfectly balance classes (as they kitten should) and then use amulets/sigils/runes to do that "shaking meta" thingie, otherwise you must stop playing LoL or Dota 2 and trying to apply that MOBA/Hearthstone balance logic in MMORPG.
There also could have created a system to "block" certain specces from available playable pool in PvP, thus "shaking meta" without even doing anything to change it, this way people would be forced every x weeks to change builds and find new one to fight against new random pool. Currently classes have more than enough of possible choices/tools to justify that.

this is why gw2 pvp is dead, and league pvp thrives despite being out there for over 10 years.
Is lol balanced? heeeeeel nah, but every couple of months players get kittened over in new different ways and they love it.
Here we have same kitten, different day and people just get bored, how kittening long can we subject ourselves to 4/5 necro a game or a bunker meta

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

What frustrates me is that a few simple changes could make a huge difference for the meta.  For instance, reduce damage (and condi) reduction in shroud from 50% down to 25%, and nerf Lich auto attacks' dmg by 50%.  Is it perfect?  No, but those 2 number changes alone would bring necro more in line with other classes and open up the meta.  

 

There are plenty of other things that could/should be addressed, too, of course, but I'd consider it a major step in the right direction if there were only one necro per team instead of the 6/10 like I'm currently seeing.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

[duplicate]

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Fueki.4753]

Remember when Arenanet nerfed the sizes of Symbols, because they allegedly were too big?

Arenanet still hasn't applied this idea to the even larger Necromancer circles, which can cover entire points.

[mortrialus.3062]

On 11/1/2021 at 12:56 AM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Did you not pay attention for the past 2 pages? Swinging the hammer is what kills pvp...both the nerf hammer and the buff hammer.

Letting one class dominate the game terms of power, ease of use, and representation for months and months (honestly years as necro has been strong in ways it has never been since Megabalance) is far worse than swinging any hammer. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Leonidrex.5649]

9 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

What frustrates me is that a few simple changes could make a huge difference for the meta.  For instance, reduce damage (and condi) reduction in shroud from 50% down to 25%, and nerf Lich auto attacks' dmg by 50%.  Is it perfect?  No, but those 2 number changes alone would bring necro more in line with other classes and open up the meta.  

 

There are plenty of other things that could/should be addressed, too, of course, but I'd consider it a major step in the right direction if there were only one necro per team instead of the 6/10 like I'm currently seeing.

there is no need for 50% nerfs, but there is a need for some changes.
problem is NOTHING is being done. reduce shroud protection from 50% to 40% and see how it goes, is it perfect? no.
but they dont even kittening try

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 dodge core Necro ez, Reaper shroud no dmg mitigation (only health pool), cast times on shades.

 

Gg

[Arheundel.6451]

I dunno if people took notice of the Hairbinger trait line, one look at it and you'd realize Anet has zero intention of doing anything to necro other than slap on wrist kinda of changes.....it's a money talk....easy class=high reward=huge influx of players= high profit=corporate wish....you can't win, now matter how much you cry, play around it and be content with the crumbles....or better leave the game,  if you are wise and smart...you don't waste time on this forum or game...I still play it despite the utter garbage design so.....yeah

[KrHome.1920]

50 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

I dunno if people took notice of the Hairbinger trait line, one look at it and you'd realize Anet has zero intention of doing anything to necro other than slap on wrist kinda of changes.....it's a money talk....easy class=high reward=huge influx of players= high profit=corporate wish....you can't win, now matter how much you cry, play around it and be content with the crumbles....or better leave the game,  if you are wise and smart...you don't waste time on this forum or game...I still play it despite the utter garbage design so.....yeah

Did you realize that harbinger does not have the second life bar everyone here is complaining about? Harbinger is pretty much the opposite of the current necro specs in terms of gameplay. It is a hit and run spec and most necro players had a hard time getting into the spec in the beta.

There was exactly one viable harbinger build in the beta which maximized vitality and condi damage without any compromizes. Everything slightly more glassy got destroyed cause of its squishiness - not even talking about marauder harbinger here, which is complete trash (bait its 2 dodges and then have a freekill).

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 11/1/2021 at 3:35 AM, Spellhunter.9675 said:

 Everyone, who has a lot of expirience in different pvp games knows that a game dies as soon as it has no more constant meta shakes. 

Not true. 

There's a ton of fighting / competitive games out there with static rosters that have continued to remain viable despite not having any new content or forced rebalancing. Street fighter III and Melee, for example, have been chugging along for years. 

What matters is that the meta, in whatever current state it is in, is good and allows for multiple avenues to challenge or counterplay the most played strategies. 

 

This doesn't condone necro or any of the other builds being bad that enable necro to be so prevalent. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

1 dodge core Necro ez, Reaper shroud no dmg mitigation (only health pool), cast times on shades.

 

Gg

Nah, Core and Reaper both need the damage reduction reduced. Maybe not down to 25% like CTS mentioned though. Down to 33% is on par with the other sustain nerfs from Feb2020.

Scourge F2-F4 need 0.25s cast times. Big Shade needs to be reduced in size.

[Fueki.4753]

51 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Did you realize that harbinger does not have the second life bar everyone here is complaining about?

This isn't entirely true. Due to the first minor trait, Life Force is used to heal the Harmbinger. While it's less sustain that prior Shrouds, it's still sustain.

And Harmbinger existing doesn't solve the problem of the other specializations over-performing.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Burial.1958]

Anet should better nerf engis first.

[Eugchriss.2046]

Necro has enough sustain with shroud. Anet should remove BOTH dodges on nec. Just saying. (Not like they re dodging anyway)

Edited November 23, 2021 by Eugchriss.2046

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

23 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Necro has enough sustain with shroud. Anet should remove BOTH dodges on nec. Just saying. (Not like they re dodging anyway)

Let's be sane with balancing suggestions please. Necro doesn't have access to any other mitigation tools besides shroud and doesn't deserve that.

There was a sizeable period of time before the megabalance that had necros not performing well at all, despite them having two dodges. Whatever sweetspot exists between that meta, and this one, needs to be hit. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Nah, Core and Reaper both need the damage reduction reduced. Maybe not down to 25% like CTS mentioned though. Down to 33% is on par with the other sustain nerfs from Feb2020.

Scourge F2-F4 need 0.25s cast times. Big Shade needs to be reduced in size.

I feel like 33% dmg reduction still might not be enough, especially since they can stack protection on top of it.  But I'd be OK with starting with 33%; it would still be impactful.  Heck, at this point, I'd be grateful for anything.

 

I'd also really like to see Lich auto attacks nerfed hard.  There is no reason for a class as tanky and with as much damage and utility as necro to be able to suddenly start popping off with 6k auto attacks.  Maybe some of the other lich skills can get a little love to help compensate for it, but there needs to be more skill involved than just spamming "1" to get 6k ranged autos.

[Eugchriss.2046]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Let's be sane with balancing suggestions please. Necro doesn't have access to any other mitigation tools besides shroud and doesn't deserve that.

There was a sizeable period of time before the megabalance that had necros not performing well at all, despite them having two dodges. Whatever sweetspot exists between that meta, and this one, needs to be hit. 

I know it was not that obvious but I was trolling. My real suggestion on how to balance nec would be to nerf shroud generation and actually keep the 50% damage reduction.

Why? Well because the good necs would save that hard gained lf to facetank burst while the bad ones would spamm it off cd and therefore won't be able to survive a burst. Nerfing the damage reduction and keeping shroud generation will only blurry a little more the line between good nec and bad nec. It's like with thief: instead of increasing "overperforming" skills' initiatives, they should add a mechanism to punish those who are like "333333333333333333333".  But that's off topic.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Eugchriss.2046