How will single target healing work in this game?

[xXMapcoXx.9614]

I am going to resever my judgement till i play in the beta, but from what i see how is healing a single target viable? so i have to either focus on the ui, or click my teamates who are going to be boncing all over the map while i have to also be bouncing around all over the place. The dev even said it themselfs they know how limiting this is in the game they made? So, how will this work? and explain to me how its not hot garbage?

[Astralporing.1957]

Well, considering that in high-end content people will still likely be stacking, and there will still be AoE healers (and AoE boons), single-target healing and boons are most likely to end up being completely redundant.

[Linken.6345]

11 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, considering that in high-end content people will still likely be stacking, and there will still be AoE healers (and AoE boons), single-target healing and boons are most likely to end up being completely redundant.

And yet we get the specter were half or abit more is single target buffing/healing.

[Infusion.7149]

It will be semi-viable at a minimum since you apply rot wallow venom to targets you give barrier to.
In addition the condition damage to healing power and 20% heal modifier means you don't need to go all in on healing power.

[Pifil.5193]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

And yet we get the specter were half or abit more is single target buffing/healing.

I didn't see the stream, just wondering can you target then through the party/squad panel? Or are these buffs/heals that would mostly be on a group's "tank"?

[Vancho.8750]

12 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

I didn't see the stream, just wondering can you target then through the party/squad panel? Or are these buffs/heals that would mostly be on a group's "tank"?

Thief would probably focus on wells as a DPS/Boon group support in instanced content and maybe they will add some boss mechanics where they need two people to split from the groups but still need extra healing, like the tank healer thing  where the group needs to DPS something but the tank needs to stay on place away from the group. The usefulness would be determined by the encounter design, and it might be Boon thief 2.0 with more versatility to be played on more bosses. 

[Tails.9372]

21 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Or are these buffs/heals that would mostly be on a group's "tank"?

Heals mostly come from SS directed at your targeted ally (and some traits) and you can only re-target once every 9 seconds so yes it's going to "mostly be on a group's "tank"". The boons can be applied more freely but half of them exclude the user.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

And yet we get the specter were half or abit more is single target buffing/healing.

Indeed. Which will be a problem for the reasons that i have specified above.

If the buff will be worth having, the target will already have it from the AoE boon generation anyway. There might be some point in single target healing in case of some emergency, but then specter skills and mechanics aren't really suited for emergency burst healing. And all the "normal" healing will be taken care by primary healer anyway.

[Gibson.4036]

Awkwardly.

/thread

[Xanadrine.4352]

I guess people never played healers in other games. personally I love a balance of single target and aoe heals, it makes the most fun and interesting gameplay. hitting aoe all the time is boring AF, where as with STH you have to watch your team mates health better, and make fast critical choices. Lets face it healing is boring in this game, stack heal /yawn 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

I guess people never played healers in other games.

If you have played healers in other games, you should have noticed why usually most of healing is done through single target healing - and how it is different from gw2.

Take FF XIV as an example: if you look at how healers act, and how encounters are constructed, you will notice two things:

First, that single target heals are just way more efficient. Try to use AoE ones all the time, and you'll end up running out of mana veeery fast.

Second, there's not that many mechanics that damage all players (and they're generelly spread sparingly over the whole encounter). Most of the damage either goes to tank(s), or goes only to people that mess up mechanics. And the damage is generally very predictable, so for the most part you know to what level people need to be healed at any specific point in the fight. As such, you heal tanks, help out those individual players that messed up, and go for AoE burst healing only after/before some specific mechanics.

Now, compare that with GW2, where those single targets will have absolutely no advantage over AoE ones. There's basically no resource management issues (even if there are some resources, like for Druid's CA mode, they regen so fast you are mostlylimited by cooldowns only), and practically all heal skills so far (with the exception of self-heals, but we can pretty much ignore those in discussion about healing other players) are AoE ones. And since we can already pretty much overheal anything, making single target heals stronger is not a solution either.

Additionally, in GW2 the encounter mechanics are built around all those abovementioned healing capabilities. Which means that in content that was created before healers became a thing you don't need any healers at all, and can easily manage with self-heals only. And in any more demanding content that came later, damage is pretty much omnipresent, and requires that aoe constant healing even when there's nothing major going on.

There are very few cases where single target heal might indeed be wanted (usually when someone has to leave the stack, or when a lot of damage is pointed at only one player), but the issue is you'd have to sacrifice a full dps or normal AoE heal slot for that capability. Which doesn't really sound like a good choice.

 

 

[The Fear.3865]

For each mechanist in your squad, you take a specter  to sustain the mecha not affected by the 5 targets healing aoe. 👍🤷‍♂️

[Ashantara.8731]

12 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

I guess people never played healers in other games. personally I love a balance of single target and aoe heals

This made sense in Guild Wars 1, but GW2 has completely different mechanics. You no longer have only small, overseeable groups with a tank, damage dealers and a healer (except in very few raid scenarios, which is the only viable scenario in GW2 for single-target healing).

Edit: Also, Thief as a healer-only sounds completely absurd and therefore won't work, either, because the Thief will never stay in the background to apply heals and do nothing besides that. It's a chaotic design in itself, like most of the new elite specs.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[kharmin.7683]

It's a good thing that elite builds are simply different ways to play a class and not necessarily better ways to play a class.  Can't figure out single-target healing?  Then use a different build.

Edited October 26, 2021 by kharmin.7683

[Alcatraznc.3869]

On paper :

 

Mono target heal can be a niche option if the healing you provide is high enough you can afford to not spec all your gear into healing power.

 

For PVE, if your group can manage their HP fairly well and only from time to time you have to heal someone because he messed up/lagged then the single target heal will not really be an issue. If your group constantly takes damage then no you may need to bring an AOE healer.

 

For SPVP I guess it can be a decent decap / support because it is still a thief that has access to TP. And in team fight you can support an ally you deem worthy. Also thief bring a lot of smoke field/stealth so it can basically be a medic with stealth option.

 

For WvsW I think it can work fine if you're doin duo or trio. And same argument as for SPVP, you're bringing a medic with stealth option.

 

It will most likely not be the best healer but it provides a niche option. 

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, The Fear.3865 said:

For each mechanist in your squad, you take a specter  to sustain the mecha not affected by the 5 targets healing aoe. 👍🤷‍♂️

TBH I really wish that the specter gameplay is what the mechanist would have gotten. The mech goes ham on your opponent's and the mechanist focuses on keeping it alive and buffed up.

[Blude.6812]

On 10/24/2021 at 5:46 PM, xXMapcoXx.9614 said:

I am going to resever my judgement till i play in the beta, but from what i see how is healing a single target viable? so i have to either focus on the ui, or click my teamates who are going to be boncing all over the map while i have to also be bouncing around all over the place. The dev even said it themselfs they know how limiting this is in the game they made? So, how will this work? and explain to me how its not hot garbage?

Heck they can't even get targeting to work properly on enemies let alone your concerns.

[Xanadrine.4352]

You do know thief isnt locked into healer in the new elite right? I mean they can go damage instead 

[Xanadrine.4352]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If you have played healers in other games, you should have noticed why usually most of healing is done through single target healing - and how it is different from gw2.

Take FF XIV as an example: if you look at how healers act, and how encounters are constructed, you will notice two things:

First, that single target heals are just way more efficient. Try to use AoE ones all the time, and you'll end up running out of mana veeery fast.

Second, there's not that many mechanics that damage all players (and they're generelly spread sparingly over the whole encounter). Most of the damage either goes to tank(s), or goes only to people that mess up mechanics. And the damage is generally very predictable, so for the most part you know to what level people need to be healed at any specific point in the fight. As such, you heal tanks, help out those individual players that messed up, and go for AoE burst healing only after/before some specific mechanics.

Now, compare that with GW2, where those single targets will have absolutely no advantage over AoE ones. There's basically no resource management issues (even if there are some resources, like for Druid's CA mode, they regen so fast you are mostlylimited by cooldowns only), and practically all heal skills so far (with the exception of self-heals, but we can pretty much ignore those in discussion about healing other players) are AoE ones. And since we can already pretty much overheal anything, making single target heals stronger is not a solution either.

Additionally, in GW2 the encounter mechanics are built around all those abovementioned healing capabilities. Which means that in content that was created before healers became a thing you don't need any healers at all, and can easily manage with self-heals only. And in any more demanding content that came later, damage is pretty much omnipresent, and requires that aoe constant healing even when there's nothing major going on.

There are very few cases where single target heal might indeed be wanted (usually when someone has to leave the stack, or when a lot of damage is pointed at only one player), but the issue is you'd have to sacrifice a full dps or normal AoE heal slot for that capability. Which doesn't really sound like a good choice.

 

 

Maybe they are going to introduce encounters where STH works. And yes I played mana healers in a few games, STH is more efficient, and aoe healing is done for raid wide damage mechanics. 

[MatyrGustav.6210]

Most of the single target support is tied to using Shadow Shroud. A viable support aoe build is possible if you use your shadow energy as Healing when leaving shadow Shroud as soon as you enter.

 

Use your wells, and provide barrier when stealthing allies  It feel aoe viable to me

 

 

Consume Shadows

Leaving Shadow Shroud consumes all remaining shadow force, healing nearby allies based on energy consumed. Allies that are fully healed receive the rest of the value in barrier.

Traversing Darkness

Heal allies in the area around you when you shadowstep. Gain shadow force for each ally in the radius. Wells grant alacrity on their initial impact.

 

Shadestep

Siphon now grants you barrier when targeting enemies and revives allies when targeting them. Shadowstepping breaks your barrier and grants it to nearby allies.

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by MatyrGustav.6210

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

to be honest, after playing this spec for a bit...there's no way this will be viable...and it has nothing to do with the single target nature of the spec either

 

It's a cool concept...But the issue is that none of the core trait lines truly work with this specialization...its an issue that's pervasive across all the new beta specs...but this is must be the worst I've seen so far.

 

If they wanted to make this viable in group content, they would need to make the tethers and the abilities apply to multiple targets. If they did that, the Venom would be OP...so the design of the spec is well...forced to be whatever this is.

 

Also the spec lacks self healing and only pumps out barrier...this is just not that useful. In addition to barriers it NEEDS TO APPLY HEALING. It also needs some more abilities that heal itself properly.

Edited October 26, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Zenith.7301]

10 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Maybe they are going to introduce encounters where STH works. And yes I played mana healers in a few games, STH is more efficient, and aoe healing is done for raid wide damage mechanics. 

 

 

The bigger problem is mouseover targeting in this game sucks total kitten, and keybinding ally slots is questionable as well. Targeting among multiple enemies and allies in this game is just awful.

[Vidit.7108]

So the current short answer to this is "No, the single target healing doesn't work that well in practice, but Specter has better healing options."

The longer answer is that Specter healing is more complicated than it appears or probably even needs to be. There are actually a range of other aoe healing options. One people have identified is using shroud blast finishers off black powder to aoe barrier. Measured shot (if it hits, and that's a big if right now) provides the kind of on demand bursting heal you expect with help from Shadow Savior. Shadestep and stealth attacks are also really important to spreading barrier to allies. The Specter is capable of incredible barrier upkeep as a result (I'd say on par just about with Firebrand Aegis). Almost all of this really good healing is a two step process with Measured Shot, the wells, any already existing shadow steps being the on the more on demand end of aoe healing.

This healing pretty much entirely eclipses what the single target healing is capable of. Switching targets is clunky and really hard in fractals especially ones with high movement and ads. So it doesn't really have window it's more usable in, there is almost always something the Specter would rather be doing to support the group at any given moment than spend too much time figuring out who to use shroud on for the best healing. It can still do some good healing on a single target but it's not worth intentionally doing over anything else.