Should Anet completely redo the untamed from scratch?

[conquistator.6549]

Should Anet completely redo untamed from scratch?

 

As many have tried out untamed and so do I, I believe many (including me) find many things are wrong for the spec rendering it unplayable in some area of the game or uncompetitive in others. What I see is the spec pretty much has problem in almost every aspect:

1.       Pet control needs change among other pet related issues

2.       Hammer skill(s) need rework and not just stat buffs

3.       Trait line needs to be rework to synergize with other trait lines/other benefits to make this “frontline” concept works

4.       Healing skill needs complete rework

5.       Utitlity skills also need to be rework or stat balance in some

I’m not going to go into details in each of those as you can see those in other discussions but the list itself is the entirety of the spec so this begs me the question, should Anet start over from scratch? Sure, Anet can keep the name and hammer as the weapons but other thing should be re-started afresh?

 

While I understand that even starting afresh wouldn’t necessarily provide a better result, however given the concept and the execution of the untamed, it is obvious that the end result of the untamed would only end up as a product that exists only to be attached to EoD nothing more nothing less with no other usage whatsoever- a product that nobody plays.

 

Ps the goo needs to go

Edited December 3, 2021 by conquistator.6549

[Abyssisis.3971]

Untamed needs work, but I don’t know about a full rework. Imo, it’s not nearly as bad as Druid, I hate that espec so much that I’ll play another class if I want to play support. I’m still in the optimistic phase with Untamed. Lol

Edited October 29, 2021 by Abyssisis.3971

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Untamed needs work, but I don’t know about a full rework. Imo, it’s not nearly as bad as Druid lol

No as bad as it is actually worse. 

[Abyssisis.3971]

Just now, anduriell.6280 said:

No as bad as it is actually worse. 

You are quick, got in before I edited lol

[anduriell.6280]

2 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

You are quick, got in before I edited lol

My apologies it wasn't my intention, let's call it a chance of faith. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Abyssisis.3971]

Just now, anduriell.6280 said:

My apologies it wasn't my intention, let's call it a chance of fait. 

All good. I look at it this way, Druid is a lost cause, it’s never getting a rework. Untamed on the other hand can be improved before EoD release, so with any luck, anet does make a few changes and improves the espec. If they don’t, then I doubt I’ll buy the expansion and I’ll just keep with soulbeast for pvp.

[anduriell.6280]

7 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

All good. I look at it this way, Druid is a lost cause, it’s never getting a rework. Untamed on the other hand can be improved before EoD release, so with any luck, anet does make a few changes and improves the espec. If they don’t, then I doubt I’ll buy the expansion and I’ll just keep with soulbeast for pvp.

I would not hold my hopes up thou. We thought the same with Druid, that it would get better (Anet did a beta event like this one but with all the elites similar to the one on november) and many years later is even worse. 

For what anet has shown us they do not have enough knowledge about how the pet and ranger actually interact with the game mechanics so they keep doing this weird beta experiments with the class instead providing a proper solution. 

Because the elite feels like it is a beta experiment for the elite for  another profession. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 minute ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Because the elite feels like it is a beta experiment for the elite for  another profession. 

That’s how all ranger espec work, they come up with ideas for other classes, then cut the guts out of them and slap them on ranger and call it a day. 

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

We thought the same with Druid, that it would get better

 

Druid did work as a teamfight healer despite it flaws. Then Anet started continually making it worse until the flaws of the design became too glaring to not be overlooked by anyone except Anet themselves, which I'm sure is happy with it as long as it has the strike/raid status it has.

Watching them trying to make support scrapper work for PvE when it's already stupid strong in WvW, while doing nothing the other way around for druid is frustrating to watch. It says a lot about where their main focus is.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[anduriell.6280]

4 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

That’s how all ranger espec work, they come up with ideas for other classes, then cut the guts out of them and slap them on ranger and call it a day. 

I would go the other way around: They think about an idea, do a half implementation jus to check if it works and then finish the development for the other elites and forget about the beta testing. Then call it a day, 

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 minute ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I would go the other way around: They think about an idea, do a half implementation jus to check if it works and then finish the development for the other elites and forget about the beta testing. Then call it a day, 

Either way, anet has terrible work ethics haha

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

Can you add a poll to this thread?

1. Redo the whole espec

2. Keep the idea, but redo all skills/traits

3. just improve the skills

4. All is fine

I vote for 2 😉

Edited October 29, 2021 by Aleksander Suburb.4287

[conquistator.6549]

21 minutes ago, Aleksander Suburb.4287 said:

Can you add a poll to this thread?

1. Redo the whole espec

2. Keep the idea, but redo all skills/traits

3. just improve the skills

4. All is fine

I vote for 2 😉

I can but how much of a difference is 1 from 2?

 

The way I think for a poll is:

1. Redo all weapon skill, pet, utilities and traitline (which is basically everything)

2. Simple stat buff to skill(s) is enough aka. reduce cooldown, dps increase etc.

3. Everything is perfect

 

The reason behind the first choice that the untamed needs all those rework to make it works as a build.

I have made the poll, I will add your second choice later once I know what "keep the idea" includes.

Edited October 29, 2021 by conquistator.6549

[anduriell.6280]

30 minutes ago, conquistator.6549 said:

I can but how much of a difference is 1 from 2

i think what @Aleksander Suburb.4287 means in option one to throw away the whole idea about the elite, i would not include that option as i don't think Anet would redo all the art work for the elite. This ones require a lot of art involved and it is usually very costly.

i do agree with you both thou, while keeping exisiting art and effects the mechanics need to change completely. If anet wants a beast,aster elite fine but do it properly so it can be fun and have the intended use.

Edited October 29, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Black Scoutsman.5830]

While many can appreciate the sentiment, they 100% will not redesign the spec.  They will tweak numbers, tweak traits in the long haul, and possibly add conditional effects, a stunbreak, and MAYBE a leap on the hammer.  We are not getting a redesign.  Pretty sure a class has only been redesigned once or twice in the 10 year history of the game.  Why ask for it now when their development resources are 1/10 what they used to be?

[Beddo.1907]

The idea is not bad and if they just:

-update (mostly old) traits and finally allow pets to trigger traits

-add some team wide boons 

-buff and slightly change how cantrips and hammer works

-fix pet UI

 

The spec might be in a good enough spot to actually be adjusted.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Beddo.1907

[HotHit.6783]

I'm gonna have to say "simple stat buff" as "redo the whole" spec can be taken as more extreme than I believe is needed. The idea and concept of the Untamed and the tech that it uses are fine. The issues I believe stem from the disparate ideas not synergising as well as we would like and the new control system for our companion not working so well. The latter would be especially useful to get right, because it should be expanded to Core Ranger for consistency and provided to Mechanist.

It is a fairly large amount of reworking though. I would like the unleashed pet to vary based on its aspect (deadly, ferocious, stout, etc.) or its attack range. Which is 3-4 new skills at least. I agree with many that the non-hammer weapons should get unleashed skills as well, but it would be fine if only select skills were unleashed to minimize the work. Longbow could Unleash Long-range Shot (which would keep the standard weapons consistent) or Point Blank Shot (removing the primary control skill while unleashed). The latter method is a bit odd for our dual wields though since half our offhands lack disables. This also would need to be translated to underwater as well, which is even more work.

With those changes, the traits would need looking at (which they kind of do already). Disable traits can't be triggered while unleashed except by a perfect Exploding Spores, Spike Trap, Storm Spirit's Call Lightning and Nature's Binding if our opponent makes a mistake. Assuming we get Unleashed disables on our weapons. I'd like Immobilize to be added to that list of disables for us because it would add a lot more synergies and Immobilize is arguably better at setting up the combos we're looking for. Though as others have said the disable traits would be great if our pets could trigger them. Adding new unleashed pet skills would also mean those traits need consideration. but "skill 1 has to be able to blind" isn't a big deal and "skill 2 always strips boons" is also probably fine.

[Dadnir.5038]

Objectively there is not much to "redo", as it stand, it's core ranger with a F5 and bad control over the pet.

I think what the devs need is to sort out what should be kept and expanded and what shouldn't.

The 2nd set of skills on the hammer should be either discarded for an unified one, keeping the best skills out of the 2 sets or expanded to the other weapons (that's 24-29 new weapon skills to create).

The cantrips could have different effect based on whether the Untamed is unleashed or not as a replacement for the 2nd skillset of the hammer.

The control over the pet is worse than ever but, on this front, there is not much that can really be done (well a huge amount of work on the pet UI could be done but that's not something that can be realistically expected from the devs).

They could also remove access to the common pet list and force onto the Untamed 4-5 spec specific pets with built in synergy with the unleashed pet skills and the Untamed intended gameplay. (It could somehow "fix" the pet issue but it could also anger the pokemon trainers wannabe. Here for 5 pets that would mean 8 new skills to create and adapting the unleashed pet skills, still a lot of work but less than the weapons one - Pet design can be reused from the many models in PvE, mini-pets and existing minions).

 

[mistsim.2748]

They don't have a track record of redoing anything from scratch. Best case scenario is they will make it usable over the next 1-2 years like they did with the Scrapper. They have a very small team, and many priorities before launch.

After 9 years I honestly don't give an F any more. I'll be playing Lost Ark early next year.

Edited October 29, 2021 by mistsim.2748

[ledernierrempart.6871]

if rework there will be, here a little proposition:
 

 

[BadSanta.6527]

im so pissed if after playing with the mechanist, that how pet should have been 

[Mell.4873]

16 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

All good. I look at it this way, Druid is a lost cause, it’s never getting a rework. Untamed on the other hand can be improved before EoD release, so with any luck, anet does make a few changes and improves the espec. If they don’t, then I doubt I’ll buy the expansion and I’ll just keep with soulbeast for pvp.

Druid is fine, if the rework hammer and provide each pet family and weapons with an unleashed version I will be happy. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Mell.4873

[Puck.3697]

Honestly no, with the time left they'd never get it done by the last beta and it'd be a seriously rushed job. 

Untamed can be good, it needs polishing realistically. 

Pet groups need their own unleashed abilities for sure, ranged pets suffer massively with this mechanic. 

And hammer does fe restrictive but it's not the first time we have seen a weapon driven to meta by being exclusive to a elites mechanic. 

It's just a way to allow hammer to be both a cc and DPS weapon.. 

Imho feedback on how to improve untamed is the realistic option alot of people were unhappy with the PoF speccs yet on release weren't dissapointed. We have seen the first iteration not the final. 

Untamed isn't hopeless, it just felt quite weak. However defintly has Spvp potiental at minimum (it's lack of utility options is worrying on PvE however). 

[Dante.1508]

Anet are so obsessed with Ranger pets... They are bad..

 

I miss GW1 where i could dump them and have a great ranger.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Dante.1508

[InsaneQR.7412]

Completely? No. Tune the traits and give more weapon interactions with unleash? Yes.

Buff the utilities a bit? Yes

 

Completely overhaul the pet system? Hard Yes. But that does not affect just untamed.