What do you think is next in store for the future story of Guild Wars 2 after End of Dragons?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

Would Arachnia be a good opponent for such an Expansion ?

A Spider god (Death, fate and other such thing, elder god, non canon at the moment)

Arachnia was supposedly the giant spider corpse we walk over in the Realm of Torment, so likely dead.

[Kayberz.5346]

Im predicting that after EoD the next place we will go in whatever is essentially lws6 is the dominion of winds

 

They have made a bunch of new tengu assets for EoD and i would predict that after whatever happens in the expansion that the tengu would finally decide to leave the walls of the dominion with there no longer being elder dragons to worry about and contact with cantha being opened up again. 

 

As for what the actual plot will be, i have no idea, its very dependent on what happens during the EoD campaign.

 

There is the possibility that maybe the commnder and company arrive in cantha mostly independently meaning that the events of EoD aren't actually a formal reunion of cantha and the rest of tyria, and after the EoD campaign is when the canthan empire decide to "introduce" themselves to the rest of the world, and this may or may not be a peaceful reunion and could potentially lead to an actual "world war" which is where the dominion tengu could come into play.

 

Maybe while we are busy in cantha with the EoD campaign other political turmoil is happening in tyria that we come back to with the presence of the canthan empire which then complicates things further.

Come to think of it, what have the consortium been up to all this time?

 

Idk, so many possibilities, im excited to see what they do regardless 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[draxynnic.3719]

It amuses me that people seem so sure that ArenaNet won't be able to keep going because they've exhausted all the GW1 plot threads without considering that there was a time when those plots too were woven from whole cloth. There are also some of the more hidden mysteries that are yet unanswered which could grow into something major.

 

It also amuses me that people assume that any new plot will obviously only last for an expansion and a couple of seasons at most, when the Elder Dragon plot was first conceived of after Nightfall and still isn't done yet.

[Ashantara.8731]

I hope we will finally get some high-quality story-telling as exciting and diverse as the cool stories of each of the raid wings (which are by far the most compelling stories in GW2 so far).

[The Greyhawk.9107]

I STILL want to know who 'E' was, as in official canon reveal done in an interesting and compelling way.

[genjonah.1253]

On 11/3/2021 at 8:03 AM, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

 

 

So what's next ?
Deal with the last dragon and I guess "End of Dragons" will literally take care of this.

That's why EOD should be the last expansion, the whole story has been told.
Last cinematic should gives hints about Guild Wars 3.
"LS6" should gives some conclusions and helps set the stage for Guild Wars 3, just like Beyond did.

I hope we can travel for new places, far from Tyria, on unexplored continents (see the World map in the Durmand Priory).

 

 

While yeah, I do think a lot of the GW1 threads have been tied up, there are still a lot of stories they can explore 

 

in particular, I can think of the pantheon-sized hole left from PoF that really is demanding of some resolution/follow-up (and I personally hope they tie it to the thread in LWS3, that we may not have been told the whole truth about Abaddon)

[Kayberz.5346]

1 hour ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I STILL want to know who 'E' was, as in official canon reveal done in an interesting and compelling way.

I could imagine the topic of "E" and other mysteries/plot points such as queen jennah in general and our oath with the shinning blade being explored in post EoD content whenever cantha formally makes contact with kryta again 

 

Just spitballing some ideas: divinitys reach and kryta in general has so far been the "last bastion of humanity" in gw2 (excluding elona now out from under jokos rule very recently) and with the reintroduction of cantha as a presumably very powerful human nation that rivals if not outright surpasses krytas power and potential influence it could lead to some political turmoil if the leadership of these nations dont see eye to eye.

If the commander returns to tyria on good terms with the canthan empire but the canthan empire and kryta come to some kind of conflict with each other it would put us as a person under oath with the shinning blade ,which is bound to protect krytan interests, in a very compromising position which i could definitely see as being a situation where "E" would see fit to personally confront us

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[De Dominator.9834]

Been replaying the story from the start, and its rally made me realize that they love just wasting characters and storylines that have alot of potential which is just terribly disappointing.

Lazarus, Joko, Primordus being three of the most egregious examples, each one could have seen an entire Living World season or even Expansion dedicated to them, but they are just killed off with so little care nor extensive story exploration. As disappointing as this is, I at least hope that they will be able to get to a point after EoD in which they have closed all the narrative threads that exist, as at least then they could hopefully have a fresh start and create new stories and everything altogether, which I would hope would be better quality and more consistent.

[Faridah.8431]

Hot take: This is where I feel this game suffers from lack of a quest structure. While map event chains and other things do flesh out the world, quests helped flesh out lore/story pieces which right now are really confined to story instances. I think ANET worked themselves into a situation where they didn't know how to flesh out a lot of the pieces they introduced within the scope of a story instance and that's why you see a lot of things never resolve as their focus moved with regards to the story.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

9 hours ago, De Dominator.9834 said:

Been replaying the story from the start, and its rally made me realize that they love just wasting characters and storylines that have alot of potential which is just terribly disappointing.

Lazarus, Joko, Primordus being three of the most egregious examples, each one could have seen an entire Living World season or even Expansion dedicated to them, but they are just killed off with so little care nor extensive story exploration. As disappointing as this is, I at least hope that they will be able to get to a point after EoD in which they have closed all the narrative threads that exist, as at least then they could hopefully have a fresh start and create new stories and everything altogether, which I would hope would be better quality and more consistent.

This is more a symptom of overly excited fanbases rather then wasted potential for those characters. Fanbases(not just GW's) tend to latch onto specific aspects of a franchise, and build ever increasingly over the top expectations for those things as the years go by and their stories aren't done, and then claim "wasted potential" for those things when the story inevitably doesn't turn out the way they wanted. In reality, the story never would have, because the series never set them up for that, and they never were that to begin with.

 

Using Lazarus as an example, the Mursaat, as a species, were gimmick spellcasters whose power was destroyed way back in the GW1 era when we found a way to counter their gimmicks. By the end of GW1 the Mursaat had become fodder for the players, and were then outclassed by the Titans, who themselves became fodder for the player characters. Lazarus himself was played as a stooge in EOTN when he got outplayed by one of his servants, and the PC, who ruined his attempt at reforming himself. The situation only got worse for the Mursaat during the War in Kryta, where Asuran tech helped further turn the Mursaat, and their constructs, into fodder for the normal people.

By the time GW2 rolls around the strength of heroes is way beyond that of GW1 PCs, making a singular Mursaat a non threat to begin with. Not only that, but the potential force said Mursaat could have used, aka the white Mantle, where portrayed as horribly incompetent stooges themselves, who had spent the better part of the last 250 trying to seize the Krytan throne and failing constantly. Not to mention their order was split because Caudecus didn't give to flips, and only cared about his own personal power.

There's really no logical way for Lazarus to be a big issue by the time of GW2, not any more then he was anyways. The increased power of heroes, the long standing nullification of the Mursaat's gimmicks, the division among the Mantle, and the unity of the five races, would prevent any Lazarus story from being expansion level. At best we would have gotten the same story we did, but Baltha-Lazarus would ave been real Lazarus, and he would have fled to/died at Orr after the Mantle's loss at Lake Doric, and then Balthazar would just be introduced later.

 

The same is true of Joko. Joko was a moron who failed to capture Elona hundreds of years ago, failed to break out on his own, failed to reclaim his army by himself, only managed to capture Elona between GW1 and GW2 because no one really tired to stop him, failed to stamp out the Sunspears, failed to stamp out the Order of Shadows, failed to keep a tight grip on his Empire, leading to mass civil unrest, failed to take Amnoon despite decades of trying... and generally failed at everything he did. Even if Balthazar, and the player didn't show up his empire was on the brink of collapsing within a decade or two anyways. Joko was, himself, never portrayed as some expansion level threat. He was a regional warlord who was a Bangar style side story.

 

 

 

[Poormany.4507]

3 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The situation only got worse for the Mursaat during the War in Kryta, where Asuran tech helped further turn the Mursaat, and their constructs, into fodder for the normal people.

IIRC, the Mursaat almost won the Battle for Lions Arch at the end of WiK because nobody (except the player/heroes) had protection against their magics, with the Asura only activating their anti-Mursaat device at the last second.

3 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

There's really no logical way for Lazarus to be a big issue by the time of GW2, not any more then he was anyways. The increased power of heroes, the long standing nullification of the Mursaat's gimmicks, the division among the Mantle, and the unity of the five races, would prevent any Lazarus story from being expansion level. At best we would have gotten the same story we did, but Baltha-Lazarus would ave been real Lazarus, and he would have fled to/died at Orr after the Mantle's loss at Lake Doric, and then Balthazar would just be introduced later.

The same is true of Joko. Joko was a moron who failed to capture Elona hundreds of years ago, failed to break out on his own, failed to reclaim his army by himself, only managed to capture Elona between GW1 and GW2 because no one really tired to stop him, failed to stamp out the Sunspears, failed to stamp out the Order of Shadows, failed to keep a tight grip on his Empire, leading to mass civil unrest, failed to take Amnoon despite decades of trying... and generally failed at everything he did. Even if Balthazar, and the player didn't show up his empire was on the brink of collapsing within a decade or two anyways. Joko was, himself, never portrayed as some expansion level threat. He was a regional warlord who was a Bangar style side story.

Tbh, I don't think Lazarus (the real one) should have even been brought into the story at all at that point, maybe shelved for an Isle of Janthir expac/LW or something. Randomly introducing him and killing him off in 5 minutes (and then immediately throwing Livia away as well from the story randomly) just felt like a waste and like they were just checking off story points/characters from GW1 to finish on a list, even more so for players who did not even get to see him in GW1 I would imagine.

Joko took full advantage of his enemies' weaknesses, redirected a river, throwing entire regions into famine, and made them dependent on him. I don't agree that would make him a moron. His enemies (the Sunspears and Order of Shadows) were utterly demoralized and in standstill until we arrived and helped them take on Joko. I feel like he would have been an awesome threat, but his story got cut short (with one of the weakest/rushed maps in the game) and his threat was very much nerfed down. I could easily see him having a full 2-3 more episodes in LWS4 if the plague was not written to affect humans only (really bad decision imo) and he had released it outside of Elona.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[radda.8920]

3 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

This is more a symptom of overly excited fanbases rather then wasted potential for those characters. Fanbases(not just GW's) tend to latch onto specific aspects of a franchise, and build ever increasingly over the top expectations for those things as the years go by and their stories aren't done, and then claim "wasted potential" for those things when the story inevitably doesn't turn out the way they wanted. In reality, the story never would have, because the series never set them up for that, and they never were that to begin with.

 

Using Lazarus as an example, the Mursaat, as a species, were gimmick spellcasters whose power was destroyed way back in the GW1 era when we found a way to counter their gimmicks. By the end of GW1 the Mursaat had become fodder for the players, and were then outclassed by the Titans, who themselves became fodder for the player characters. Lazarus himself was played as a stooge in EOTN when he got outplayed by one of his servants, and the PC, who ruined his attempt at reforming himself. The situation only got worse for the Mursaat during the War in Kryta, where Asuran tech helped further turn the Mursaat, and their constructs, into fodder for the normal people.

By the time GW2 rolls around the strength of heroes is way beyond that of GW1 PCs, making a singular Mursaat a non threat to begin with. Not only that, but the potential force said Mursaat could have used, aka the white Mantle, where portrayed as horribly incompetent stooges themselves, who had spent the better part of the last 250 trying to seize the Krytan throne and failing constantly. Not to mention their order was split because Caudecus didn't give to flips, and only cared about his own personal power.

There's really no logical way for Lazarus to be a big issue by the time of GW2, not any more then he was anyways. The increased power of heroes, the long standing nullification of the Mursaat's gimmicks, the division among the Mantle, and the unity of the five races, would prevent any Lazarus story from being expansion level. At best we would have gotten the same story we did, but Baltha-Lazarus would ave been real Lazarus, and he would have fled to/died at Orr after the Mantle's loss at Lake Doric, and then Balthazar would just be introduced later.

 

The same is true of Joko. Joko was a moron who failed to capture Elona hundreds of years ago, failed to break out on his own, failed to reclaim his army by himself, only managed to capture Elona between GW1 and GW2 because no one really tired to stop him, failed to stamp out the Sunspears, failed to stamp out the Order of Shadows, failed to keep a tight grip on his Empire, leading to mass civil unrest, failed to take Amnoon despite decades of trying... and generally failed at everything he did. Even if Balthazar, and the player didn't show up his empire was on the brink of collapsing within a decade or two anyways. Joko was, himself, never portrayed as some expansion level threat. He was a regional warlord who was a Bangar style side story.

 

 

 

And yet despite the contempt you seem to feel for Joko and the Mursaats, their rather failed story  on gw2 remains far superior to the whole soporific scenario about the dragons.

It shows how, in the hands of a quality screenwriter, they would have far more potential than all those repetitive and bland stories about elders dragons.

Of course we could expand the history of the Mursaats just by exploiting the island of Janthir and imagining lots of things there. For joko, they can  give the origin of his power in the past, explain the reason for his transformation into a lich and and enrich the threat of the scarab plague that has been ridiculously botched in kourna

Edited November 11, 2021 by radda.8920

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

IIRC, the Mursaat almost won the Battle for Lions Arch at the end of WiK because nobody (except the player/heroes) had protection against their magics, with the Asura only activating their anti-Mursaat device at the last second.

Tbh, I don't think Lazarus (the real one) should have even been brought into the story at all at that point, maybe shelved for an Isle of Janthir expac/LW or something. Randomly introducing him and killing him off in 5 minutes (and then immediately throwing Livia away as well from the story randomly) just felt like a waste and like they were just checking off story points/characters from GW1 to finish on a list, even more so for players who did not even get to see him in GW1 I would imagine.

Joko took full advantage of his enemies' weaknesses, redirected a river, throwing entire regions into famine, and made them dependent on him. I don't agree that would make him a moron. His enemies (the Sunspears and Order of Shadows) were utterly demoralized and in standstill until we arrived and helped them take on Joko. I feel like he would have been an awesome threat, but his story got cut short (with one of the weakest/rushed maps in the game) and his threat was very much nerfed down. I could easily see him having a full 2-3 more episodes in LWS4 if the plague was not written to affect humans only (really bad decision imo) and he had released it outside of Elona.

This is exactly what I am talking about.

You mention a Isle of Janthir xpack but Janthir is so small you could cover the entirety of it in one expansion sized map. Even if it wasn't, all the other Mursaat are dead, the White Mantle is gone. What exactly would Lazaraus' play be exactly? what would be his forces to make him a threat? As is, the situation you purpose would make Lazarus a lesser threat then even Bangar, because Bangar at least had a logical point to get an army from. Lazarus does not. The rather quick death of Lazarus makes sense given the context. Hes the last of his kind, the group that worshiped him had fallen due to infighting, and the organization dedicated to his death had spent the last 250+ years working toward that goal. That Lazarus died in 5 minutes isn't surprising... everything was stacked against him honestly even BEFORE Balthazar showed up.

 

The same is true of Joko, if you read the pre-release content, and the lore in GW2 itself, they state that Joko only took over Elona because literally no one tried to stop him. He did something a literal child could, which is look at a map, and realize most of the water on the continent comes in via one river, and dammed it. He only got away with it because neither the Sunspears, nor the Elonian rules, really tried to stop him. That isn't winning because of your own skill, thats winning because the other side wasn't participating. And again, he couldn't eliminate the Sunspears. He couldn't eliminate the Order of Shadows. He couldn't eliminate the dissident network. He couldn't push Kralkatorrik, or the Branded, out of his lands. He couldn't take Amnoon despite trying for decades, and going so far as to put up a blockade on them. He literally couldn't do anything because his whole empire was a giant paper tiger built on fear, but fear stops working the moment you say no like Amnoon did. And you're wrong that he had the Order of Shadows demoralized and at a standstill, dialogue from events shows that they planned to prop on Kossan as a leader of Elona when Joko's empire fell because even they were predicting it was going to fall in decade or two with the way it was going.

Joko wouldn't have released his plague into central Tyria because he leaks the means to reach it. Hell, he can't even take Amnoon, much less march an army/navy into Tyria proper without the use of Asura gates. If Joko actually had that sort of forces he would have tried taking some part of Tyria ages ago. There would be no reason for him to not try. Even then, there really isn't any room in central Tyria for a LWS4 sized map to show such a story off.

As for his ending being "rushed"in PoF we wrecked his forces from the Desert Highlands all the way into Vabbi, and in LWS4EP1 we help the Sunspears retake Istan. Even if Joko had survived the assault at Gandara every other part of Elona had turned against him. The only place he could have fled to is Jahai, but if he did that we would just be redoing the exact same story we did at Gandara, with him fleeing to a fortresses, and the allied forces seizing it and killing him. It might have made for better historical irony, but there really was nothing to gain narratively from doing that. He died simply becuase he lost, not because his story was rushed.

2 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

And yet despite the contempt you seem to feel for Joko and the Mursaats, their rather failed story  on gw2 remains far superior to the whole soporific scenario about the dragons.

It shows how, in the hands of a quality screenwriter, they would have far more potential than all those repetitive and bland stories about elders dragons.

Of course we could expand the history of the Mursaats just by exploiting the island of Janthir and imagining lots of things there. For joko, they can  give the origin of his power in the past, explain the reason for his transformation into a lich and and enrich the threat of the scarab plague that has been ridiculously botched in kourna

I have "contempt" for neither Joko or Lazarus. I actually liked both of them in GW1, which is exactly why I was glad Anet avoided the rather illogical stories people expected made up for them between the games. Anet kept threats to the logical level they were portrayed in gW1/in GW2's pre-release content, rather then trying to make them into Elder Dragon world threats they never were.

We got more on the past of the Mursaat on Ember Bay. There was that whole Mursaat tablet achievement thing that talked about their past, their participation in the previous dragon rise, why they fled, and why they have the attitude they do now.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mursaat_Lore_Tablet

Likewise we got Joko's backstory added to the game, there is an entire collection about finding the books/journals of his past, and why he is the way he is.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mad_Maleficence

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

16 hours ago, De Dominator.9834 said:

Been replaying the story from the start, and its rally made me realize that they love just wasting characters and storylines that have alot of potential which is just terribly disappointing.

Lazarus, Joko, Primordus being three of the most egregious examples, each one could have seen an entire Living World season or even Expansion dedicated to them, but they are just killed off with so little care nor extensive story exploration. As disappointing as this is, I at least hope that they will be able to get to a point after EoD in which they have closed all the narrative threads that exist, as at least then they could hopefully have a fresh start and create new stories and everything altogether, which I would hope would be better quality and more consistent.

I'm pretty alright with how Lazarus and Joko ended, especially Joko since he had one of the most amazing cutscene monologues in the entirety of GW history.

That said, what they did to Primordus was absolutely criminal given the amount of precedence they gave him during the end of Eye of The North in the first game. Jormag literally took every screen time in IBS and they couldn't even bother to give Primordus a proper personality when compared to all the other Elder Dragons. 

[Drascious.5714]

Considering that GW1 gave us a good variety of different big bads to deal with across its campaigns I would anticipate that we could either see a proper conclusion to much of the God based story since this is the second time a fallen god has caused trouble in Tyria, this would include alot more exploration of the mists which are still severely ripped open and damaged thanks to season 4.

 

A quick glance over Shaman's map https://www.thatshaman.com/tools/guide/?v=4&x=-498.5&y=938&z=0 shows that we've actually hit a pretty large portion of existing GW1 locations at this point aside from the depths of tyria. Many of the missing locations are filler maps between ones we do already have so it's less and less likely that we would see somewhere like snake dance or tangleroot for instances.

 

I think by moving the client to dx11 they are investing into being able to use GW2 as the base for future guild wars content rather than moving over to GW3. The only reason they even made GW2 is that they wanted to move to a game that was vastly different to GW1.

 

I would think that based on the new map locations so far hinted for Cantha that there is at least space for one full living world season set in and around Cantha, we got 4 ls maps from nightfall areas and we could easily see the same or more after EoD based on the sheer size of many of the areas.

[genjonah.1253]

Lazarus was robbed, in my opinion. Seriously, just make him a raid end boss, and I would have been so much happier. Incorporate Livia into it, heck the whole sequence could have been easily adapted into a 10 man instance, etc. so that I will agree with as being a rip off, but an acceptable one. It was tying off a loose end from GW1

 

Joko, though, I thought was perfect. They handled him wonderfully, no issues there

 

Primordus was the real egregious error. Built up for how many years, only to never get so much as a single scene of him doing anything himself, other than dying 

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

16 hours ago, Faridah.8431 said:

Hot take: This is where I feel this game suffers from lack of a quest structure. While map event chains and other things do flesh out the world, quests helped flesh out lore/story pieces which right now are really confined to story instances. I think ANET worked themselves into a situation where they didn't know how to flesh out a lot of the pieces they introduced within the scope of a story instance and that's why you see a lot of things never resolve as their focus moved with regards to the story.

There can still use achievements as a way to add more lore pieces, such as they did with Spiritual Renewal. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiritual_Renewal

[Faridah.8431]

4 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

There can still use achievements as a way to add more lore pieces, such as they did with Spiritual Renewal. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiritual_Renewal

Totally agree. Or expand Side Stories.

[De Dominator.9834]

On 11/11/2021 at 7:43 AM, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I'm pretty alright with how Lazarus and Joko ended, especially Joko since he had one of the most amazing cutscene monologues in the entirety of GW history.

That said, what they did to Primordus was absolutely criminal given the amount of precedence they gave him during the end of Eye of The North in the first game. Jormag literally took every screen time in IBS and they couldn't even bother to give Primordus a proper personality when compared to all the other Elder Dragons. 

 

23 hours ago, genjonah.1253 said:

Lazarus was robbed, in my opinion. Seriously, just make him a raid end boss, and I would have been so much happier. Incorporate Livia into it, heck the whole sequence could have been easily adapted into a 10 man instance, etc. so that I will agree with as being a rip off, but an acceptable one. It was tying off a loose end from GW1

 

Joko, though, I thought was perfect. They handled him wonderfully, no issues there

 

Primordus was the real egregious error. Built up for how many years, only to never get so much as a single scene of him doing anything himself, other than dying 

 

Of Joko and Lazarus, Lazarus is the main one I have an issue with, the way he was bought back and then defeated just feels so disjointed and rushed, they have a single episode just to revive him and kill him off in a season that until that point had been building up to and focusing on Balthazar. Had they just kept Lazarus as a red herring villain who was actually Balthazar in disguise, that would be far better IMO. But taking a detour to suddenly bring him back just to immediately kill him off feels like it was done purely to tie up that narrative for the sake of not having to worry about it in the future. They should just not have bought him back at all. I definitely agree that a raid would be the perfect solution to implementing and tying up Lazarus.

Joko I feel he was wasted purely because of how good he is in GW2 itself, what we do get of him is so great that it then feels like a waste to me for us to get so little of it. A few more episodes, a few more actual appearances and interactions would have been awesome.

But Primordus is definitely the worst, how little development and content he got is criminal, I could get behind him not having much personality and his whole thing being that hes the simpler more brutish dragon, but at least give him actual content, some more maps, some more story moments, champions, minions etc. Also, surely when focusing on Primordus there should be some more Asura and Dwarf involvement as they were the races who were most affected by him.

[genjonah.1253]

1 hour ago, De Dominator.9834 said:

 

 

Of Joko and Lazarus, Lazarus is the main one I have an issue with, the way he was bought back and then defeated just feels so disjointed and rushed, they have a single episode just to revive him and kill him off in a season that until that point had been building up to and focusing on Balthazar. Had they just kept Lazarus as a red herring villain who was actually Balthazar in disguise, that would be far better IMO. But taking a detour to suddenly bring him back just to immediately kill him off feels like it was done purely to tie up that narrative for the sake of not having to worry about it in the future. They should just not have bought him back at all. I definitely agree that a raid would be the perfect solution to implementing and tying up Lazarus.

Joko I feel he was wasted purely because of how good he is in GW2 itself, what we do get of him is so great that it then feels like a waste to me for us to get so little of it. A few more episodes, a few more actual appearances and interactions would have been awesome.

But Primordus is definitely the worst, how little development and content he got is criminal, I could get behind him not having much personality and his whole thing being that hes the simpler more brutish dragon, but at least give him actual content, some more maps, some more story moments, champions, minions etc. Also, surely when focusing on Primordus there should be some more Asura and Dwarf involvement as they were the races who were most affected by him.

Exactly on Lazarus and Primordus, but the reason I liked what they did with Joko was that he ended on a high note. He was in his prime, for me, and taken away right in that. It shocked me, but for me personally, it was great in that everything we got of him was GOOD. He wasn’t drawn out too much, wasn’t given a chance to be ruined, I guess

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

5 hours ago, De Dominator.9834 said:

But Primordus is definitely the worst, how little development and content he got is criminal, I could get behind him not having much personality and his whole thing being that hes the simpler more brutish dragon, but at least give him actual content, some more maps, some more story moments, champions, minions etc. Also, surely when focusing on Primordus there should be some more Asura and Dwarf involvement as they were the races who were most affected by him.

Primordus had pretty much the exact same amount of content as the other Elder Dragons.

Back in core(or LWS2 for Mordremoth) each of the dragons had "build up" content where we fought that dragon's minions in a significant way, leading to a fight with a major champion.

• Zhaitan had the southern part of Bloodtide Coast, as well as Sparkly Fen, where its champion Tequatl was.
• Kralk had the Dragonbrand which ran through Fields of Ruin, Blazeridge Steppes, and Iron Marches. With its champion, The Shatterer, in Blazeridge.
• Jormag had the northern part of Wayfarer Foothills, the northeastern part of Snowden Drifts, and Frostgorge Sound, where its champion the Claw of Jormag was.
• Primordus was more scattershot due to it being the "underground dragon which could pop up anywhere" but its minions showed up in Metrica, Brisban, Kessex, Timerline, Lornar's Pass, and Mount Maelstrom, where its champion the Megadestroyer was.
• Mordremoth had parts of Dry Top, and OFC the Silverwastes, where its champion the Vinewrath was.

Now when it came to actually fighting each dragon those stories were too all similar, that being each dragon got three maps and a dragon fight.

• Zhaitan had the three Orr maps, and Arah story mode dragon fight
• Mordremoth had the first three HoT maps, with Dragon's Stand for its dragon fight
• Kralk had Vabbi, Jahai, and Thunderhead, with Dragonfall for its dragon fight
• Jormag had Bitterfrost, Bjora, and Drizzlewood, with Dragonstorm for its dragon fight
• Primordus had Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, and the first two Champions releases, which replaced its third map, and Dragonstorm for its dragon fight

Primordus had pretty much the same amount of content as the other Elder Dragons. If anything, the only thing we really lost was the Centaur plot from what was likely the original plans for chapters 5/6 of Icebrood Saga. The dragon fight maps(Arah, Dragon's Stand, Dragonfall) never had much in the way of plot themselves, since, by that point, we already have everything  we need to win, we are just applying it. So there was likely little story "lost" in the original plans for Dragonstorm for chapters 7/8

And the Asura and Dwarves WERE involved in the Primordus story.  For the Asura, starting from HoT, and moving into LWS3 we

• Went underground(in Tangled Depths)
• Found a lost Asuran city(Rata Novus)
• Learned more about the Asura who stayed underground to keep fighting the dragon(Rata Novans)
• Found some tech/magic/research they put into defeating Primordus(Dragon Lab at Rata Novus)
• Used that to find a way to defeat Primordus(Taimi's research into the dragons in LWS3)
• Used that to actually defeat Primordus(First with Taimi's Machine, then in IBS)
• Stopped the Inquest from stealing the lost Asuran tech(Inquest in Rata Arcanum in Draconis Mons)

And most of this happened in the Ember Bay, and Draconis Mons releases in LWS3, which were Primordus focused releases. Similarly the Dwarves(who were believed to be totally extinct outside of Ogden), played a fairly big role in Ember Bay with Rhoban, and the old Dwarf tech we use to stop the volcano from exploding. Rhoban, and the Dwarven story, continuing through PoF(Derelict Delve), LWS4(Thunderhead Peaks), and even into Icebrood Saga(Stone Summit in Forging Steel). Not to mention the Asuran story involvement against Primordus in Champions, and the Asuran and Dwarven forces that showed up during the Dragon's invasions.

Primordus got comparatively little time in IBS because most of its story had been done back in LWS3. We got new Destroyer types(death/vine touched), new champions (Molten Dominator, Ignis, Aestus, and all the DRM/Wildfire destroyer champions)

Edited November 12, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[draxynnic.3719]

Arguing that Joko couldn't attack Tyria or threaten Tyria with the Scarab Plague without access to asura gates...

 

...when it was a plot point that Joko managed to intercept a Pact ship between Fort Trinity and Amnoon and turn it into a plague ship.

 

Pretty sure that if he could do that, once he had the final stage of the plague he could have found a way to weaponise it against his enemies, especially if it hadn't been retconned (yes, retconned - it was demonstrated to be effective against charr in the previous episode) to be only effective against humans.

[Tails.9372]

On 11/8/2021 at 6:49 PM, Kayberz.5346 said:

Come to think of it, what have the consortium been up to all this time?

The consortium is involved with the fractal storyline which; all things considered; actually hasn't even taken off yet.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Tyson.5160]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:43 PM, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I'm pretty alright with how Lazarus and Joko ended, especially Joko since he had one of the most amazing cutscene monologues in the entirety of GW history.

That said, what they did to Primordus was absolutely criminal given the amount of precedence they gave him during the end of Eye of The North in the first game. Jormag literally took every screen time in IBS and they couldn't even bother to give Primordus a proper personality when compared to all the other Elder Dragons. 

I think Primordus lacked personality because he was literally destruction. Seeing how Braham communicated, while a champion, gave us a view point into Primordus’s mind. Senseless devastation and mindless hunger.

 

Would explain his actions in S3, destroy destroy destroy, oh big magic, tunnel tunnel tunnel, consume consume consume.

[Legion.4198]

From the mundane point of view, I'd like a cold war developing between Tyria, Elona and a Cantha. Perhaps they could bring protagonism to guilds and/or companies, to fight over the scraps of dragon magic, lost artefacts, or to explore and/or colonize the world now that the dragons are gone.