Guardian leaves no room for Catalyst or Harbinger.

[Kidel.2057]

On 11/25/2021 at 3:23 AM, Linnael.1069 said:

Nobody cares about half the incoming elite specs because Guardian has been allowed to be so OP for so long. 
Harbinger and Catalyst are obviously designed to fit into a DPS+Quickness role in PvE. But nobody will ever play these classes because of Guardian.

Guard does Quickness + DPS + Aegis + Stability. It does 4 roles in one: why should we ever care about new specs that can only do 2?

How come nobody else is allowed to give decent amounts aegis or stability? Why should these critically important boons be reserved for Guardian only? But guardian is even allowed to have alacrity  now even though that doesn't fit its theme at all?

You forgot Alacrity on Willbender. Dragonhunter can even stealth with the right runes. 

[Avatara.1042]

When I look at the Willbender's utility skills, then at the Catalysts, I feel like crying 😞

[Zenith.7301]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:06 PM, Avatara.1042 said:

When I look at the Willbender's utility skills, then at the Catalysts, I feel like crying 😞

 

Join the mesmers. Chrono  elite well does same CC as Willbender elite, but slower, does less damage, and has double the cd for some hysterically funny reason.

[Avatara.1042]

1 hour ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

Join the mesmers. Chrono  elite well does same CC as Willbender elite, but slower, does less damage, and has double the cd for some hysterically funny reason.

It is ridiculous how much break-bar utility they gave the Willbender.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

Once upon a time, Chrono and Druid ruled the support class. People complained for exact same problem. Now it's Guardian + rev combo. If they fix it (nerf it), it will be something else.

There will be always a META. Unless every class can do exactly same thing, balance will never be equal. If every class can do everything, what's the point of class anyway.

But, hey if you are bored with playing certain class for certain role, please say so and shake up the meta. But, there will always be META.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[Avatara.1042]

34 minutes ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

Once upon a time, Chrono and Druid ruled the support class. People complained for exact same problem. Now it's Guardian + rev combo. If they fix it (nerf it), it will be something else.

There will be always a META. Unless every class can do exactly same thing, balance will never be equal. If every class can do everything, what's the point of class anyway.

But, hey if you are bored with playing certain class for certain role, please say so and shake up the meta. But, there will always be META.

LOOKING FOR 8 MORE GUARDIANS FOR RAID, PST!

NEED 20 MORE GUARDIANS FOR WVW ZERG, PLEASE JOIN OPEN SQUAD!

 

Just because there were always be a meta, that does not mean one profession should completely dominate it.

[Zenith.7301]

7 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

Once upon a time, Chrono and Druid ruled the support class. People complained for exact same problem. Now it's Guardian + rev combo. If they fix it (nerf it), it will be something else.

There will be always a META. Unless every class can do exactly same thing, balance will never be equal. If every class can do everything, what's the point of class anyway.

But, hey if you are bored with playing certain class for certain role, please say so and shake up the meta. But, there will always be META.

 

 

Chrono required some modicum of effort to pull off, and it was invented because the class was being excluded in any PvE where portals were not used.

 

Guardian and Revenant just vomit boons without any remote skill or thought required, on top of doing better DPS and having more flexible utility outside just boon provision.

[Shiyo.3578]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:06 PM, Avatara.1042 said:

When I look at the Willbender's utility skills, then at the Catalysts, I feel like crying 😞

Don't look at virts or you might implode.

[Substance E.4852]

16 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

Once upon a time, Chrono and Druid ruled the support class. People complained for exact same problem.

 

Once upon a time, support meant actually performing a dedicated role and not farting out perma boons on auto attack

[Puck.3697]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:14 AM, Avatara.1042 said:

LOOKING FOR 8 MORE GUARDIANS FOR RAID, PST!

NEED 20 MORE GUARDIANS FOR WVW ZERG, PLEASE JOIN OPEN SQUAD!

 

Just because there were always be a meta, that does not mean one profession should completely dominate it.

But it doesn't lol 

Necromancer, revenant and guardian all dominate meta wise. If anything it's expanded more then it was not subtracted. 

 

[Obtena.7952]

30 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

But it doesn't lol 

Necromancer, revenant and guardian all dominate meta wise. If anything it's expanded more then it was not subtracted. 

 

Some truth here. Objectively, there are far more classes/specs that are meta than the OP wants to admit. Probably because doing so kills the point they are trying to push. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Linnael.1069]

You are the most desperate firebrand defender ever, but the funniest part is that you don't even realize that by constantly bumping this thread so much you are only keeping it in front of more people's eyes and countering your own goals.

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Linnael.1069 said:

You are the most desperate firebrand defender ever, but the funniest part is that you don't even realize that by constantly bumping this thread so much you are only keeping it in front of more people's eyes and countering your own goals.

No ones defending firebrand. We all know Firebrands overtuned. But it has been for 4 years now and with knowing no balance patch is happening prior EoD we all know it's gonna get nerfed. But it won't matter when it is nerfed. Cause by then the balance talk will be focused on the new elites. 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Ezrael.6859]

Please take Alacrity away from the Willbender so all the PvEasy whining will stop.

Then make it better at PvP, it's ok if it's mainly just good for PvP and WvW skirmishing.

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 12/2/2021 at 1:25 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Chrono required some modicum of effort to pull off, and it was invented because the class was being excluded in any PvE where portals were not used.

 

Guardian and Revenant just vomit boons without any remote skill or thought required, on top of doing better DPS and having more flexible utility outside just boon provision.

"Fair and Balanced."

[Axl.8924]

On 11/26/2021 at 12:02 AM, Daddy.8125 said:

Here's the issue. 

If they nerf guardian the problem stays the exact same in a different order. 

You can't remove meta from the game, one will always be chosen over the others regardless, this isn't a fixable issue. 

Your never gonna see a level where someone takes any of the three in top performing groups. One will win even if it's by 0.5% they will win and that word will spread and people will follow it

The solution would be to do what ANET DID for scourge for instance make eles desireable with their unique auras make catalyst work somehow make warriors able to finally be able to move their banners efficiently and improve them some so they can be happy and not feel miserable when folks move around.Fix harbringer let it be pure damage dealer, etc etc.

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

The solution would be to do what ANET DID for scourge for instance make eles desireable with their unique auras make catalyst work somehow make warriors able to finally be able to move their banners efficiently and improve them some so they can be happy and not feel miserable when folks move around.Fix harbringer let it be pure damage dealer, etc etc.

But scourges support aspects litterally never got people desiring them. It was when their DPS got buffed and exposed changes came in which made Condi burst insanely high that scourge became wanted. 

Player perception is what creates desire. And until something crazy like that happens that player perception never changes. Scourge is wanted. Because speedrunners use it so they think it's a win to have one 😂

I'd also say it took Anet over 9 years to make a necro specc wanted 😂😂 

[Axl.8924]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

But scourges support aspects litterally never got people desiring them. It was when their DPS got buffed and exposed changes came in which made Condi burst insanely high that scourge became wanted. 

Player perception is what creates desire. And until something crazy like that happens that player perception never changes. Scourge is wanted. Because speedrunners use it so they think it's a win to have one 😂

I'd also say it took Anet over 9 years to make a necro specc wanted 😂😂 

Scourge have multiple things that are useful such as really strong rez tool barriers are very strong for blasting through high tier fractals, plus condi corrupts turning conditions into boons which helps a lot. These are even useful in raids.

 

That and they got damage.

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Scourge have multiple things that are useful such as really strong rez tool barriers are very strong for blasting through high tier fractals, plus condi corrupts turning conditions into boons which helps a lot. These are even useful in raids.

 

That and they got damage.

Yes the reaso nthey blast through hjigh tier fractals is because of how Expose now functions.. Just like Renegade and Firebrand do well with this also. they do like 60k+ DPS in Exposed periods

Yes Condi Corrupts are very good and something we defintly bring, however the Rez barrier tools Scourge arent alone in providing that realistically.. Thief will also have a pretty strong rezz trait coming, and so do Guardians and Mesmers already have access to these, so scourge aint alone for this.

And as i said Scourge is overpowered at what it does, and it wouldnt suprise me if it got nerfed, Espically seeing thieves Rezz tool got nerfed also.

however Prior that patch, Scourge was considered Low tier and unwanted by alot of the community. Regardless to People like teapot continously saying it was strong.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Axl.8924]

11 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Yes the reaso nthey blast through hjigh tier fractals is because of how Expose now functions.. Just like Renegade and Firebrand do well with this also. they do like 60k+ DPS in Exposed periods

Yes Condi Corrupts are very good and something we defintly bring, however the Rez barrier tools Scourge arent alone in providing that realistically.. Thief will also have a pretty strong rezz trait coming, and so do Guardians and Mesmers already have access to these, so scourge aint alone for this.

And as i said Scourge is overpowered at what it does, and it wouldnt suprise me if it got nerfed, Espically seeing thieves Rezz tool got nerfed also.

 
Realistically they shouldn't touch the support aspect and rather touch the DPS unless they plan to move dps elsewhere otherwise you end with a spec that ends in the dumpster unless you mean SPVP only in which i dunno maybe in pvp and wvw. I'd prefer if every class had at least one spec for Support 1 for buff support maybe unless its specced for DPS  Power DPS condi dps etc.I think and maybe not everyone will agree with me but necro was famous for rezzing downed folks. Yes it can be problematic in WVW and PVP but in pve i think it should be something necro is good at.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Puck.3697]

18 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Realistically they shouldn't touch the support aspect and rather touch the DPS unless they plan to move dps elsewhere otherwise you end with a spec that ends in the dumpster unless you mean SPVP only in which i dunno maybe in pvp and wvw. I'd prefer if every class had at least one spec for Support 1 for buff support maybe unless its specced for DPS  Power DPS condi dps etc.I think and maybe not everyone will agree with me but necro was famous for rezzing downed folks. Yes it can be problematic in WVW and PVP but in pve i think it should be something necro is good at.

DPS Wise Reaper and Scourge basically need to swap positions.

Reaper needs to be doing 37.5k DPS

and Scourge needs to be doing 33-34k DPS

[Axl.8924]

17 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

DPS Wise Reaper and Scourge basically need to swap positions.

Reaper needs to be doing 37.5k DPS

and Scourge needs to be doing 33-34k DPS

I will agree with that position YES.

BUT... Harbringer needs fixing  in its ability to survive to replace scourge.

Scourge should be support spec.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Jski.6180]

39 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

DPS Wise Reaper and Scourge basically need to swap positions.

Reaper needs to be doing 37.5k DPS

and Scourge needs to be doing 33-34k DPS

Is that enofe though we are talking about a dps class who must be melee to do there dmg vs an support class who has 900 ish ranged to play with. That why a lot of this game has been pushing out non meta classes because the different in dps is not enofe a scouges should be doing very low dps to support a guardian should doing MUST lower dps when supporting. Cat and harbinger must go all in to support or go all in to dps there is no "free" ride long boon duration boons for these classes like we see on guardian.

[Wintermute.5408]

The whole support in this game is kittened. Druid is still the absolute golden boy of the role, completely irreplaceable. Warriors as a class are completely defined by their banners. Renegades are absolutely uncontested in the alac spot with their buffs and 10-man share, and if you think Catas will be useless - look at Specters and Willbenders pathetic attempt at alac. Firebrands are actually the most modest part of what is an absolute balance disaster - at least Scrappers can compete with them reasonably well.

[Puck.3697]

30 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

that enofe though we are talking about a dps class who must be melee to do there dmg vs an support class who has 900 ish ranged to play with. That why a lot of this game has been pushing out non meta classes because the different in dps is not enofe a scouges should be doing very low dps to support a guardian should doing MUST lower dps when supporting. Cat and harbinger must go all in to support or go all in to dps there is no "free" ride long boon duration boons for these classes like we see on guardian.

without nerfing core condi necro, u wont get it much lower im afraid.

It'd require some major adjustments to Harbingers Condi lines if we were gonna go nerfing that.. ideally u'd want scourge at likely about 31k. but i doubt u would be able to get it below 34k, Which is Fine realistically.. seeing we're seeing EoD Speccs doing 40k+