Noob question, but do Mesmer's have a ranged playstyle?

[Twilightmage.8309]

As it says, I think the new elite spec looked interesting to me and was thinking of making a mesmer now to get used to them and lvl up, but was curious if the greatsword or other power weps were ranged or not. I saw they have beams and stuff but I also see a lot of mesmers in melee range so I wasn't sure. I tend to like ranged playsteyles so figured it would be good to ask since its hard to tell what's going on with all the clones from videos.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Can mesmers play ranged, yes. But usually when you shatter you want to be melee due to self shatter. 

Can virtuoso play ranged, no. Due to several stuff such as:

Shatters above 600 range take one step left or right to avoid. 

Staff, scepter suck due to no clone pressure.

The damaging skill on GS (mirror blade) doesn't have clones to bounce, so while in range hits only one time. 

Dagger is just bad. 

All of this shows how bad the spec was thought, the ranged mesmer spec is worse at range play than all the others. Pretty hilarious if you ask me. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[mungozen.2379]

Mesmer appear to have the highest percentage of ranged weapon skills among all professions.  The playstyle does allow you to move in an out of melee range as needed while continuing to attack.  The downside is, like most profs at range, you have limited build options in Competitive modes and your DPS will generally be lower (due to being out of range of shared buffs, and ranged skills usually do not hit as hard).

However, in PvE Open World you can get away with a lot of builds that will work as you want, and teach you about how to Mesmer.  You can run GS with Mirage or Chrono and Domination Trait Lines and be totally fine playing at range.  You won't be top DPS or anything but you can solo the story and a lot of content, possibly up to Champion Bounties.

What I would pair a GS or Staff with would be a strong melee/defensive weapon set that will save your skin if you get in melee range, and perhaps give you a chance to reset to range.

 

[Puck.3697]

Meta wise. No. None of the mesmers strongest builds use it, at best alacrity mirage uses staff/staff but it isn't that great in all honesty and rarely gets used. 

It has multiple ranged weapons, but they aren't currently strong. 

In PvE in raids / fractals you stack due to how big ones are applied so ranged or not you will never actually be ranged. 

DPS wise - melee weapons always end up favoured so you in most cases use primarily a melee set up in most proffessions. 

Accessibility wise - yeah mesmer does have ranged weapons it can use, they just aren't amazing realistically. While you prolly could do enough DPS with them to do some stuff there's alot of stuff people will never let you into with them. 

 

[Tseison.4659]

Everyone has touched on the topic really well, especially with the cons with the upcoming Virtuoso elite spec.

In terms of what you should play, it all comes down to you just playing around with all the range weapons and seeing what works best for you in whatever game mode you play. Everyone plays differently and there will be weapons better than others.

From personal experience only, in PvE I use GS/Sw+Sw. Kiting enemies is easy for me no matter how strong they are and then the dual swords I can switch to whenever anything gets close to me. But for the most part I’m never fighting in melee range unless I’m doing raids, strikes or any sort of boss battle that requires stacking. 

In WvW, I have three builds with varying weapons depending on what I’m doing that day. But to list a few off: GS/Sw+Tor , Staff/Sc+Tor , and then Sw+Shld/Staff.

Hopefully we were able to assist you!

Edited December 12, 2021 by Tseison.4659

[Moradorin.6217]

Seems like Mesmer just doesnt have many weapon options to begin with especially for main hand. core gets sword and scepter, staff and GS if you count 2h, but Im talking main hand.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[Salt Mode.3780]

Virtuoso wouldve been an option for a full ranged if it wasnt for the fact that you do more dmg mid range then far range....or the fact that your whole kit heavily relies of block which you will need to be close range for because alot of far ranged classes that knows you are going to block have a more reliable way to obtain unblockable.

Its too kitten not to laugh at this logic lulz...

Edited December 12, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Borked.6824]

16 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Virtuoso wouldve been an option for a full ranged if it wasnt for the fact that you do more dmg mid range then far range

Isn't this a systemic problem with all Mesmer specs?  So the problem isn't just with Virtuoso, but that we've somehow managed to get a decade into the game with a ranged-capable profession that literally can't optimize at range.  Lookin at you, Chrono...and Mirage...and...Core...

[Moradorin.6217]

19 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Virtuoso wouldve been an option for a full ranged if it wasnt for the fact that you do more dmg mid range then far range....or the fact that your whole kit heavily relies of block which you will need to be close range for because alot of far ranged classes that knows you are going to block have a more reliable way to obtain unblockable.

Its too kitten not to laugh at this logic lulz...

Yea I mean I always felt that way about scepter also. That is with scepter I always feel like Im leaving good condi application and clones on the table if I don't use the block on 2, I think same can be said for sword offhand to get the might (still the case?) and also yes in pvp/wvw many people bypass blocks  with big bursty unblockable attacks.

[Salt Mode.3780]

4 hours ago, Borked.6824 said:

Isn't this a systemic problem with all Mesmer specs?  So the problem isn't just with Virtuoso, but that we've somehow managed to get a decade into the game with a ranged-capable profession that literally can't optimize at range.  Lookin at you, Chrono...and Mirage...and...Core...

Virtuoso more so because your shatters are ranged your kit is ranged based whereas the rest of the mesmer specs can be used melee because your shatters are not forced to be ranged with a cast.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

While I'm running around in the overworld, I rarely swap away from Greatsword  Anything less than a champion dies before I run out of skills to use.  Using this build

 

Gear: Full Berserker

Runes:  Scholar

Sigils: Force, Impact (Energy while on Mirage)

Weapons: Greatsword, Sword + Sword

Traits:
Domination: Bountiful Blades, Egotism, Vicious Expression

Dueling: Phantasmal Fury, Fencer's Finesse, Superiority Complex

Chronomancer: Time Catches Up, Danger Time, Chronophantasma

(Optional): Mirage: Renewing Oasis, Mirage Mantle, Infinite Horizon

Utilities: Signet of the Ether, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Miror Images, Well of Calamity/ Illusionary Ambush (mirage), Time Warp

Edited December 13, 2021 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[Sltrmhcaoou.2305]

7 hours ago, Borked.6824 said:

Isn't this a systemic problem with all Mesmer specs?  So the problem isn't just with Virtuoso, but that we've somehow managed to get a decade into the game with a ranged-capable profession that literally can't optimize at range.  Lookin at you, Chrono...and Mirage...and...Core...

yea its a mesmer thing, we have good ranged options but we also are forced to dip into melee to maximize the value from our skills.
which IMO is what it should be, as camping ranged 24/7 make for a boring gameplay.
But dagger is just bad at ranged and melee. Gs at least has decent knockback to create distance and damage to justify lack of utility or defense. Dagger has none of those things.
And virtuoso F skills cant even hit at range so by default its doomed as a ranged spec from the get go.

[dontlook.1823]

I think it is possible. The greatsword gets more dangerous the further you are from your enemies. My rule of thumb has been to have a ranged weapon with a melee if I cannot retain the distance between myself and the enemies. However, you could use your skill bar to your advantage if that is your preferred style. Also, the greatsword is a reliable ranged weapon. It is not a projectile; it cannot be reflected. It can be blocked or negated through invulnerability. That effectively shuts down a few skills or mechanics enemy units might employ during battle.

For now, you can practice any way you'd like to be familiar with the Mesmer. When the dagger comes out, you will have another ranged set for your advantage. An extra perk is that greatsword skills count as blades, so that it will work well with the new trait line coming with the Virtuoso. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, dontlook.1823 said:

I think it is possible. The greatsword gets more dangerous the further you are from your enemies. My rule of thumb has been to have a ranged weapon with a melee if I cannot retain the distance between myself and the enemies. However, you could use your skill bar to your advantage if that is your preferred style. Also, the greatsword is a reliable ranged weapon. It is not a projectile; it cannot be reflected. It can be blocked or negated through invulnerability. That effectively shuts down a few skills or mechanics enemy units might employ during battle.

For now, you can practice any way you'd like to be familiar with the Mesmer. When the dagger comes out, you will have another ranged set for your advantage. An extra perk is that greatsword skills count as blades, so that it will work well with the new trait line coming with the Virtuoso. 

GS2 hits only once at range since Virt doesn't have clones meaning the only damaging skill hits for like 2k.

[Mell.4873]

On 12/12/2021 at 5:50 AM, Twilightmage.8309 said:

As it says, I think the new elite spec looked interesting to me and was thinking of making a mesmer now to get used to them and lvl up, but was curious if the greatsword or other power weps were ranged or not. I saw they have beams and stuff but I also see a lot of mesmers in melee range so I wasn't sure. I tend to like ranged playsteyles so figured it would be good to ask since its hard to tell what's going on with all the clones from videos.

People claim ranged is bad on mesmer but I guess they never play it open world or for legendary bounties where melee is a death sentence. 

Mesmer is amazing ranged, especially chrono with Greatsword or mirage staff. The main reason they are amazing is you can self-buff with quickness or alac 25might and fury. 

[Yoci.2481]

Nobody discussing balance speaks about open world PvE because

 

- Mobs don't complain on the forums

- Mesmer is objectively stronger in PvE than in the competitive modes

- Everything works well in open world PvE

 

Any debate about balance necessarily revolves around the game modes where balance actually has an impact.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I don't give a rats kitten to pve but I'm pretty sure both GS and Staff dps is hilariously low. 

[Caid.4932]

I dont know tbh. Theres no particularly strong ranged spec in the game.

Dragonhunter has to drop traps in melee range, longbow ranger is kind of functional but a bit rubbish. Staff ele was good for a while but worked better stood next to melee players than far away (everything does i suppose).

Compared to the weak competition, greatsword is a pretty good ranged weapon. Virtuoso could help but everyone has listed off various ways it kind of sabotages itself.

Greatsword Mesmer works in 90% of the games content though.

[Artemis.8034]

If anet would ever get off the stack pile train the options would be limitless. But as it stands everyone stacks ranged or not lol thats terrible gameplay viability. I like playing melee and I like playing ranged, what i dont like is being forced into melee when im playing ranged.

[Junkpile.7439]

Sure mesmer have ranged playstyle. You kill core elementalist with one ranged burst. 😎

[Zraurum.8493]

Range mesmer (staff )

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Zraurum.8493

[Jables.4659]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:50 AM, Twilightmage.8309 said:

curious if the greatsword or other power weps were ranged or not.

Mesmer uses a mix of ranged and melee.  Greatsword is a ranged weapon, but shatters and Mirror Blade both encourage getting into melee range for bursts, and the weapon is generally paired with main-hand sword (which is entirely melee). 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 12/15/2021 at 10:20 PM, Yoci.2481 said:

Nobody discussing balance speaks about open world PvE because

 

- Mobs don't complain on the forums

- Mesmer is objectively stronger in PvE than in the competitive modes

- Everything works well in open world PvE

 

Any debate about balance necessarily revolves around the game modes where balance actually has an impact.

The whole "everything works in open world" thing is a bit overblown. It's not strictly wrong, but there's a big range between "if you find a big enough zerg it doesn't matter how bad your build is because they'll carry you" and "I solo legendaries for lulz". Once you get to the expansion zones, then all else being equal you'll have a smoother time if you're closer to the latter end (actually doing so is more of a flex than an efficient way to do things, but it's certainly less frustrating if you're able to do decent damage without being downed on a regular basis).

 

We tend not to discuss open world balance because people in the forums trend towards being the harder-core players and so generally care more about getting into raid and CM fractal groups than open world performance. However, I'm pretty sure the developers do consider it, since they have the numbers on what the majority of players actually play, and open world performance does affect people's general enjoyment of the professions in question.

 

So, @Twilightmage.8309, with this in mind:

 

In open world, ranged mesmers do fairly well. The kings of open world are probably necromancers and revenants at the moment, both of which also have strong ranged options, but ranged mesmer is still reasonably solid, especially if you can keep the enemy aggroed on clones rather than yourself. It is fairly weak against large numbers of enemies, which seems to be what Virtuoso is intended to address. It certainly feels better playing ranged in open world than elementalist, warrior, and guardian (guardian ranged is... okay, but is obviously intended to be secondary to melee. Warrior and elementalist ranged... need work).

 

The aforementioned high-end PvE content like fractals, raids, and strikes tend to focus on stacking for boons, so nine times out of ten (if not more) you're going to be in melee range even if you're using a ranged weapon, so you're probably going to be using a melee weapon unless you need a ranged weapon for support or for specific utility. This applies to all professions under current game design, however, so this isn't likely to affect profession choice. Mesmer does fairly well in this environment, since it has access to high DPS, alacrity, or quickness (not on the same build, obviously), although whether it's going to have top billing depends on the fight in question.

 

In 5v5 PvP, power mesmer usually uses greatsword in order to use Mirror Blade in spikes, which requires being close to the target. Condi mesmer using scepter/torch and staff can work well, including in the current balance, although this fluctuates a bit.

 

WvW I have the least experience with. Roaming seems to have similar behaviour to 5v5 PvP - power is all about bursts, condi is more sustainy and has room for ranged play, albeit probably not exclusively. In zergs... you're pretty much a utility bot, unfortunately.

 

Virtuoso is aimed at adding to mesmer's ranged options. Its flaws tend to be... exaggerated by people who just hate the concept in general, but it is still in development, so if the existence of Virtuoso is the deciding factor between making a mesmer or not, consider waiting until it actually releases. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by draxynnic.3719

[Salt Mode.3780]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Virtuoso is aimed at adding to mesmer's ranged options. Its flaws tend to be... exaggerated by people who just hate the concept in general, but it is still in development, so if the existence of Virtuoso is the deciding factor between making a mesmer or not, consider waiting until it actually releases. 

Your post would've been fine without adding this end part. Virtuoso was the first spec to be revealed and released and yet of all the changes to each profession it received the most lackluster changes compared to every other class.

 

It never addressed to the lackluster traits.

Never addressed the "I can sidestep dodge" problem, or even "higher elevation and your skills miss" problem.

Never addressed the fact that weapons are extremely lackluster in conjunction with Virtuoso because the older weapons were created with a mindset that clones are a thing.

Never addressed the issue of how extremely lackluster dagger is in both weapon and utility wise.

Weird condi trait with no real condi synergy, or a full ranged class needing to go mid range to do more damage.

No mobility like deadeye to get back into ranged because of how lackluster survival is for Virtuoso.

 

These are the most common things complained about Virtuoso yet none of it was addressed. In fact all the changes were nothing anyone asked for. They had months and months of feedback, and based on history with what they did with Mesmer it is night and day that they don't want this class to excel. 

Chronomancers and their outdated wells when other classes can pump alacrity + quickness free without having to wait till the last tick, and alacrity was their EXCLUSIVE boon to begin with, and I don't even want to start with Mirage.

Don't kid urself with hoping ANET devs are going to do anything but ignore the masses of their forums but turn to reddit to look for positive feedbacks.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[piitb.7635]

My own personal opinion is that while Mesmer is mostly ranged, ANet should really bring back Mesmer original intent as seen in GW1 as messing with boons and conditions.  Currently that isn't  the forefront of Mesmer design, but rather how to make things shatter differently..

 

 

mesmers should be absolutely feared by those that have an overreliance on boons and condis.

Edited December 28, 2021 by piitb.7635