Nerfs destroy viability...Lack of viability kills playerbase.....The playerbase keeps asking for nerfs.......

[Arheundel.6451]

What has this constant and years long nerfing done for this game?

It's short-sighted.....self sabotage at its finest https://tenor.com/view/button-kick-gif-10790675 , after 7 years of constant nerfing, this vocal minority did not grow tired of constantly ask for even more nerfs.

With 4 specializations for class, you'd expect to see at least one build for each one of them, being played at above average level....in GW2 you see most time a single specialization being played and most times not even at above average level but still...this community asks for more nerfs....like it will make the game better or increase the playerbase, which has decreased as a consequence of this constant nerfing.

Constant nerfing, reduces viability, with less tools given...there will be less chance for players to adapt, this leads to a stagnant meta, which in return leads to an ever decreasing playerbase.

There are 9 professions in this game, with strengths and weaknesses, each with its own design philosophy, some professions will excel at duelling, some at supporting and some others during teamfight...now what GW2 players take for granted is that they think of chosing any given glass and be good at everything

Egocentric and proudful individuals won't accept that their chosen class doesn't excel at their preferred gameplay choice and will come on this forum asking for nerfs, actually trying to remove the weaknesses of their chosen class at the expense of others. An example would be : warrior player complains that they lose the duel to a duellist class....this duellist class on other hand is not able to teamfight as well as warrior...the warrior player doesn't care and simply wants to nerf the duellist class...it's unfair that his class can lose duels.....

I came to this realization by multiclassing...the more I multiclass the more I realize how selfish is to ask for nerfs and use the term OP loosely, out of context and without actual understanding of what the term OP means in reality : OP = Over Performing = the class is doing too well outside the scope of its intended design.

A class doing too much as duellist, support and teamfighter is OP...it can only be very good at 1 thing, at best decent at an additional one..but never very good at multiple roles, that's the definition of OP. By contrast what you consider unfair to fight against is not OP by definition......people out there should try to understant this simple concept

You cannot win them all and fairness is a relative concept, understand this idea...or quit your attempt to play a MMO

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[ollbirtan.2915]

This post deserves to be pinned. 

STOP asking for nerfs. period. 

[lightDestroyer.1265]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

What has this constant and years long nerfing done for this game?

It's short-sighted.....self sabotage at its finest https://tenor.com/view/button-kick-gif-10790675 , after 7 years of constant nerfing, this vocal minority did not grow tired of constantly ask for even more nerfs.

With 4 specializations for class, you'd expect to see at least one build for each one of them, being played at above average level....in GW2 you see most time a single specialization being played and most times not even at above average level but still...this community asks for more nerfs....like it will make the game better or increase the playerbase, which has decreased as a consequence of this constant nerfing.

Constant nerfing, reduces viability, with less tools given...there will be less chance for players to adapt, this leads to a stagnant meta, which in return leads to an ever decreasing playerbase.

There are 9 professions in this game, with strengths and weaknesses, each with its own design philosophy, some professions will excel at duelling, some at supporting and some others during teamfight...now what GW2 players take for granted is that they think of chosing any given glass and be good at everything

Egocentric and proudful individuals won't accept that their chosen class doesn't excel at their preferred gameplay choice and will come on this forum asking for nerfs, actually trying to remove the weaknesses of their chosen class at the expense of others. An example would be : warrior player complains that they lose the duel to a duellist class....this duellist class on other hand is not able to teamfight as well as warrior...the warrior player doesn't care and simply wants to nerf the duellist class...it's unfair that his class can lose duels.....

I came to this realization by multiclassing...the more I multiclass the more I realize how selfish is to ask for nerfs and use the term OP loosely, out of context and without actual understanding of what the term OP means in reality : OP = Over Performing = the class is doing too well outside the scope of its intended design.

A class doing too much as duellist, support and teamfighter is OP...it can only be very good at 1 thing, at best decent at an additional one..but never very good at multiple roles, that's the definition of OP. By contrast what you consider unfair to fight against is not OP by definition......people out there should try to understant this simple concept

You cannot win them all and fairness is a relative concept, understand this idea...or quit your attempt to play a MMO

 

 

 

While u have a good point,  your example was trash.  Warrior is a dueling class,  and if it is countered by another dueling class,  then why would somebody play warrior?  To team fight?  Duelist Warriors are very bad at teamfight. By that i mean,  they have negative value in team fight. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

While u have a good point,  your example was trash.  Warrior is a dueling class,  and if it is countered by another dueling class,  then why would somebody play warrior?  To team fight?  Duelist Warriors are very bad at teamfight. By that i mean,  they have negative value in team fight. 

Warr just need buffs and that doesn't contradict OP's topic tbh

[Myror.7521]

@Arheundel.6451 Asking for nervs is just one thing. Asking for nervs that need to be done to made some classes more balanced and skill needed to play is something else. For example Warriors actually asking for nervs to thief. Why would you ask now. Simply cause it outperforming Warrior with near every single skill! No for real. What counters warrior? Blinds, Weekness spam, Dodge spam,unblockable ccs and gues what thief as one class only got litterly everything of that on a fair amount of cd means near no cd.While could easily outrun and stealth warrior. Sure a thief cant hold the point against a warrior BUT if the thief lost to a warrior its only his fault! Not because warrior is good cause the warrior is so hard overnerft that only the f1 gs burst skill does any damage and even this skill got an high telegraphed animation.

 

EDIT: as you see there are reasons to ask for nerfs. Not cause you want to be unbeatable but cause you want to have at least something to at least somehow catch a class. Cause actually in warri thief scenario the only way how the warrior could catch him is that the thief does multiple times big mistakes.

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

On 1/22/2022 at 9:22 AM, Pati.2438 said:

@Arheundel.6451 Asking for nervs is just one thing. Asking for nervs that need to be done to made some classes more balanced and skill needed to play is something else. For example Warriors actually asking for nervs to thief. Why would you ask now. Simply cause it outperforming Warrior with near every single skill! No for real. What counters warrior? Blinds, Weekness spam, Dodge spam,unblockable ccs and gues what thief as one class only got litterly everything of that on a fair amount of cd means near no cd.While could easily outrun and stealth warrior. Sure a thief cant hold the point against a warrior BUT if the thief lost to a warrior its only his fault! Not because warrior is good cause the warrior is so hard overnerft that only the f1 gs burst skill does any damage and even this skill got an high telegraphed animation.

 

EDIT: as you see there are reasons to ask for nerfs. Not cause you want to be unbeatable but cause you want to have at least something to at least somehow catch a class. Cause actually in warri thief scenario the only way how the warrior could catch him is that the thief does multiple times big mistakes.

Tbh, Thief works like that against every single spec in the game, not even Mesmers or Revs can catch a good Thief if he wants to disengage and run away.
Killing the Thief yeah, some classes have an easier time, but that's balanced, you have easy and hard match ups, as it should be.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Brandon Uzumaki.1524

[FarmBotXD.1430]

nerfs dont kill builds.
bad nerfs from incompetent developers do
I play gunslinger in lost ark, they nerfed it 3 patches in a row and im still vibing, class not even closed to killed. why?
they know what to nerf and how hard to nerf it, here they remove skills and nerfy by 50%+
 

[Arheundel.6451]

5 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Arheundel.6451 Asking for nervs is just one thing. Asking for nervs that need to be done to made some classes more balanced and skill needed to play is something else. For example Warriors actually asking for nervs to thief. Why would you ask now. Simply cause it outperforming Warrior with near every single skill! No for real. What counters warrior? Blinds, Weekness spam, Dodge spam,unblockable ccs and gues what thief as one class only got litterly everything of that on a fair amount of cd means near no cd.While could easily outrun and stealth warrior. Sure a thief cant hold the point against a warrior BUT if the thief lost to a warrior its only his fault! Not because warrior is good cause the warrior is so hard overnerft that only the f1 gs burst skill does any damage and even this skill got an high telegraphed animation.

 

EDIT: as you see there are reasons to ask for nerfs. Not cause you want to be unbeatable but cause you want to have at least something to at least somehow catch a class. Cause actually in warri thief scenario the only way how the warrior could catch him is that the thief does multiple times big mistakes.

Against a good thief, warrior is not the only class having it bad...I have been playing since launch and I don't know any class that can keep up with a good thief, if the player using it decides to hit and run all day long. You can only stall a good thief and that's the best you can ask for on any class.

Frustrating?..Yes it is, Unfair?...Yes it is...but as I have explained "fairness" is not something to look for while playing a MMO, you will have bad, very bad MU and good, extremely good ones.

There are easy sustain buffs you can give warrior, without making it straight OP, things like : Adrenaline Health and Cleansing Ire should not rely on a target being hit...as it's not 2012 anymore; most sources of resistance should be replaced with Resolution as they were intended to give the class , great defense uptime against condis and since they "nerfed" resistance ...they should update the whole thing on warrior.

Warrior is already good against power specs, just need some help on the defense line and immediate help vs condis; this would be to bring the class up to date...the rest requires changes like most other professions

P.S if you play thief, you'll realize that it's not as easy to stay alive when the enemy knows what he's doing and that's the case on literally any class...yes there are eay and hard specs atm and those need a look at ofc, but generally...it's not easy to stay alive vs good players in general, regardless of the class you play

Edited January 22, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

I still want dumb abilities to be deleted. There are so many of them, its not just the current fotm of ft scrappers. Signet mes, SA thief, flashbang, trapper runes, stone heart, shocking aura share, immob & daze druids, mm necro... Idc if it kills some build diversity, the game would be better off without them. The only way to get rid of these builds without nerfs is by reverting the feb 2020 patch, which will obviously never happen.

[Arheundel.6451]

18 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

I still want dumb abilities to be deleted. There are so many of them, its not just the current fotm of ft scrappers. Signet mes, SA thief, flashbang, trapper runes, stone heart, shocking aura share, immob & daze druids, mm necro... Idc if it kills some build diversity, the game would be better off without them. The only way to get rid of these builds without nerfs is by reverting the feb 2020 patch, which will obviously never happen.

The game would be better off for you..not the for the rest of playerbase and if we start removing all "annoying" things on the class you play, I wonder what game we'd play in the end. There so many "dumb" abilities on the class you play and you will find many reasons why they are not dumb...it always comes down to personal bias, you want to remove every inconvenient thing you don't want to fight...then you will tell others to "L2P" or "git GUD" once they stop being an incovenience for you...but that's not a MMO.

We have been playing this game for almost a decade now...this knee jerk nerf cycle didn't make things better for anyone. You nerf A...B becomes stronger than necessary..you nerf B...C becomes stronger than necessary..then you buff A again..and restart the cycle.

Yeah I am sure, you'll be happy now that A is gone...but then your turn to be nerfed comes also, because it always comes,nerfing is easy...requesting nerfs it easy, anybody can do that. But what about buffing what's not used?....Buffing is not powercreep when done right, this absurd notion that buffing is powercreep is just an excuse used by the mob to justify its lack of consideration for the wellbeing of the game, it's all about personal gain

Edited January 22, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

19 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The game would be better off for you..not the for the rest of playerbase

If people actually like that ft scrapper, trappers, and mm necros are meta in ranked then i guess this game really is dead and people just want easy dailies.

[Myror.7521]

@Brandon Uzumaki.1524 , @Arzheundel.6451

Guys I know that every other class has its struggle into fighting thiefs atm. I only use warrior as an example cause thats what my Main class is. (Besides thief of course) So my looking way is mostly of a warrior side. But I am also playing other classes from time to time. How ever the gues is thiefs should at least be punishable. Thats why I said its not ok for the Balance that an SA thief is this broken. (Yes i say broken cause a class should always have some ways to punish it and no i dont mean kite)

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

3 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

 Idc if it kills some build diversity, the game would be better off without them. The only way to get rid of these builds without nerfs is by reverting the feb 2020 patch, which will obviously never happen.

Don't worry about build diversity. There would be plenty if they reverted that patch.

 

Really; if you think about it, reverting the feb 2020 and all subsequent patches would only add more to the game since all those patches have been nerfs and removing build options.

[Sobx.1758]

On 1/22/2022 at 8:26 AM, Arheundel.6451 said:

I came to this realization by multiclassing...the more I multiclass the more I realize how selfish is to ask for nerfs and use the term OP loosely, out of context and without actual understanding of what the term OP means in reality : OP = Over Performing = the class is doing too well outside the scope of its intended design.

Putting aside the whole "nerfing = destroying viability = kills playerbase" being way too broad to be actually true (since nothing here -or in any other game- works in isolation and some things can be nerfed without rendering them useless or even bad), I think it's worth mentioning "OP" doesn't mean "overperforming" -it means "overpowered". And "overpowered" doesn't exactly work within the brackets of "is this intended design" as much as it works in the bracket of "how does it compare to the rest of the game/options".

Edited January 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Bazsi.2734]

15 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

What has this constant and years long nerfing done for this game?

It's short-sighted.....self sabotage at its finest https://tenor.com/view/button-kick-gif-10790675 , after 7 years of constant nerfing, this vocal minority did not grow tired of constantly ask for even more nerfs.

With 4 specializations for class, you'd expect to see at least one build for each one of them, being played at above average level....in GW2 you see most time a single specialization being played and most times not even at above average level but still...this community asks for more nerfs....like it will make the game better or increase the playerbase, which has decreased as a consequence of this constant nerfing.

Constant nerfing, reduces viability, with less tools given...there will be less chance for players to adapt, this leads to a stagnant meta, which in return leads to an ever decreasing playerbase.

There are 9 professions in this game, with strengths and weaknesses, each with its own design philosophy, some professions will excel at duelling, some at supporting and some others during teamfight...now what GW2 players take for granted is that they think of chosing any given glass and be good at everything

Egocentric and proudful individuals won't accept that their chosen class doesn't excel at their preferred gameplay choice and will come on this forum asking for nerfs, actually trying to remove the weaknesses of their chosen class at the expense of others. An example would be : warrior player complains that they lose the duel to a duellist class....this duellist class on other hand is not able to teamfight as well as warrior...the warrior player doesn't care and simply wants to nerf the duellist class...it's unfair that his class can lose duels.....

I came to this realization by multiclassing...the more I multiclass the more I realize how selfish is to ask for nerfs and use the term OP loosely, out of context and without actual understanding of what the term OP means in reality : OP = Over Performing = the class is doing too well outside the scope of its intended design.

A class doing too much as duellist, support and teamfighter is OP...it can only be very good at 1 thing, at best decent at an additional one..but never very good at multiple roles, that's the definition of OP. By contrast what you consider unfair to fight against is not OP by definition......people out there should try to understant this simple concept

You cannot win them all and fairness is a relative concept, understand this idea...or quit your attempt to play a MMO

 

 

 

I agree people left because I can no longer oneshot them with a permastealth deadeye. Sad. Never nerf anything ever again!

[Kaizen.3804]

18 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

I agree people left because I can no longer oneshot them with a permastealth deadeye. Sad. Never nerf anything ever again!

I'd love to know the trick behind one-shotting people with Deadeye without building up Malice first.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

11 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Arheundel.6451 Asking for nervs is just one thing. Asking for nervs that need to be done to made some classes more balanced and skill needed to play is something else. For example Warriors actually asking for nervs to thief. Why would you ask now. Simply cause it outperforming Warrior with near every single skill! No for real. What counters warrior? Blinds, Weekness spam, Dodge spam,unblockable ccs and gues what thief as one class only got litterly everything of that on a fair amount of cd means near no cd.While could easily outrun and stealth warrior. Sure a thief cant hold the point against a warrior BUT if the thief lost to a warrior its only his fault! Not because warrior is good cause the warrior is so hard overnerft that only the f1 gs burst skill does any damage and even this skill got an high telegraphed animation.

 

EDIT: as you see there are reasons to ask for nerfs. Not cause you want to be unbeatable but cause you want to have at least something to at least somehow catch a class. Cause actually in warri thief scenario the only way how the warrior could catch him is that the thief does multiple times big mistakes.

Than instead of asking for thief nerfs ask for warrior changes to be able to increase its chance vs a kit like thiefs to make the fight more balanced, but keep in mind that some classes will always counter others or be countered. Nerfing thief to make it more balanced vs warriors may inadvertently make it just as weak vs another class as warrior is to thief. Warrior isnt in a good spot in general and thief just happens to be its counter on top, ask for buffs to help war out not for thief nerfs.

[Zekent.3652]

Stop assuming that there's no well deserved nerfs, thanks.

[BobbyT.7192]

You know how WvW had a few no down state weeks?

What about a PvE balance week for pvp, all skills and traits are the PvE versions, all pve sigils, and all the stats you can get in pve for the amulets.

Would it be a chaotic mess? yes it would, and it would actually be fun for once.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

No one seems to understand the more you nerf things, the more options you take away, the worse balance is.

 

Game companies always claim its the opposite, but that's rarely true. The closest you can get to being truly balanced is being truly random; battles and classes and builds should all feel like pure noise. You should never know what you're going to be facing unless you've faced the same player before.

 

The more sanitised everything becomes in the name of balance, the more cookie-cutter builds you get, the more every game has the same team makeups, the more outcomes are predetermined by imbalances, which instead of being lost in a sea of noise are brought front and center for everyone to deal with, all the time.

 

With 36 classes all with multiple build combinations, it shouldn't feel worse than launch. But it does, it feels like the game is in an early alpha state where no more than a handful of classes have been introduced.

 

Think about that.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[ugrakarma.9416]

Obsession with nerf is psychological tendency to entropy.

In particular, I consider fixation on minimalism a pathology of modern times.

If all nerf requests are heard, this game becomes a mobile mini-game with only #1 button.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

If it was up to me, we would just use the full gearing system in PvP we already have in WvW and PvE.

Tons of choice, tons of fine tuning and tons of ways to counter whatever the meta is with creative build crafting.

[Bazsi.2734]

5 hours ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

I'd love to know the trick behind one-shotting people with Deadeye without building up Malice first.

Well so do I. Wouldn't that be awesome?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

9 hours ago, Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:

I'd love to know the trick behind one-shotting people with Deadeye without building up Malice first.

You can rapidly generate Malice per attack using the 3x critical hit sigil and a stealth attack. +1 for Mark. The entire process of building up Malice to full is reduced to 1-2 seconds with this method., depending on Quickness availability in the build. Its not instant, but the delay is very small.

 

Its "instant" in the way the old Mesmer one-shot was instant (when it was really a whole loadout).

Edited January 23, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Guirssane.7082]

I don't think that's the nerf that made spvp playerbase so small, just the lack of love of the gamemode from anet. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Guirssane.7082