Changes in EoD and Mystic Clovers [Merged]

[Malus.2184]

One change you're making is that you're adjusting the amount of clovers you can buy and at the same time believing you're also be giving a discount by decreasing the amount of Ectos used and increasing the amount of Mystic Coins while at the same time removing sources of Mystic Coins. if anthing this will make them more expensive. Getting ectos are easy. If I try-hard I can easily get 30+ pr day. I'm currently swimming in Ectos. What I've issues amassing are Mystic Coins.

Getting a discount on Ectos used in return for increasing the amount of Mystic Coins used is no discount.

If something costs a cent in physical money and the store is unable to take credit card and I've no physical money on me then it makes no practical difference to me if the thing costs one cent or $1 billion. The thing is priced out of my reach since I'm unable to physically pay.

This change will do the same at will at the same time increase the price pr. Mystic Clover from the current since you'll be using twice as many coins and only have one steady source of Coins each day where you only get one Coin.

If this change is to be a discount then the Leyline Anomaly have to reward 3-5 coins instead.

 

What Randol said reminded me that I should provide a link so people know what this is about. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-strike-missions-balance-and-rewards/

Edited February 11, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Randulf.7614]

For those who want context, the link is in their twitter feed - for some reason I can’t see the article yet from the homepage (it’ll prob show shortly)

 

Be interested to see the opinions on strike/story integration

Edited February 11, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Donari.5237]

(Whoops, scanned the front page and didn't see anyone else commenting on it, but I see someone did half an hour ago.  Requesting a merge).

New article!  It's not in the News page feed for some reason.  https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-strike-missions-balance-and-rewards/

It also lists some other changes, including two new stat combos coming in EoD.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Donari.5237

[Khisanth.2948]

The main change is a chance of 0-63 per week from fractal CMs

to a guaranteed 10 from strikes and 10 from raids per week

without knowing the average per week from fractal CMs it is hard to compare but it does seem like the new sources will end up taking more time

 

[Malus.2184]

27 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The main change is a chance of 0-63 per week from fractal CMs

to a guaranteed 10 from strikes and 10 from raids per week

without knowing the average per week from fractal CMs it is hard to compare but it does seem like the new sources will end up taking more time

 

And this will effectively nearly double the price of Clovers. Right now you can get seven coins pr week steadily and 14 Clovers.

With this change you can get 17 Coins pr. week and eight Clovers since those eight Clovers will use 16 MC to get.

Pre-change you can get seven Clovers for the seven Coins you get from the Anomaly, and then you could buy the eight Coin from the TP.

This will just lead to the price of MC increasing even if they've no use in g3 legendaries as the g1, g2, and trinkets still exists that use 250 each. And the g1 and g2 weapons are a lot more visually interesting than what's effectively just a normal weapon with the bloom increased to 100%.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Brokenangel.1389]

Genius move, Anet.

 

This adjustment will make Mystic Coins skyrocket in price, causing your average player to have no feasible means of purchasing them.  They will be forced to run the new Strikes, even if they don't want to.

 

"The removal of Mystic Coin drops from Challenge Mode bosses creates room for us to add a consistent and predictable source of Mystic Coins to strikes."

 

Jamming a specific content down people's throats is not going to make them like it kitten.

[Omega.6801]

11 minutes ago, Brokenangel.1389 said:

Genius move, Anet.

 

This adjustment will make Mystic Coins skyrocket in price, causing your average player to have no feasible means of purchasing them.  They will be forced to run the new Strikes, even if they don't want to.

 

"The removal of Mystic Coin drops from Challenge Mode bosses creates room for us to add a consistent and predictable source of Mystic Coins to strikes."

 

Jamming a specific content down people's throats is not going to make them like it kitten.

Let's see how this works out. On the one hand, yes your daily fractal cm run will not make you as rich as it used to, on the other hand, with the option to convert more things into clovers, the demand of coins will also drop a bit or at least stabilize things. Only thing making coins skyrocket 100% now is panic buyers and I'm not sure posts like yours are helping with that.

Also, I doubt "forcing" is the right word here. No one is forcing you to do anything, the game is perfectly playable in exotics, no coins needed. Unless of course you want to play the modes where ascended matters, then you also don't need coins and you are provided with gear from the game modeyou are playing. Ascended is easy.

Edited February 11, 2022 by lokh.2695

[Moira Shalaar.5620]

23 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

And this will effectively nearly couble the price of Clovers. Right now you can get seven coins pr week steadily and 14 Clovers.

With this change you can get 17 Coins pr. week and eight Clovers since those eight Clovers will use 16 MC to get.

Pre-change you can get seven Clovers for the seven Coins you get from the Anomaly, and then you could buy the eight Coin from the TP.

This will just lead to the price of MC increasing even if they've no use in g3 legendaries as the g1, g2, and trinkets still exists that use 250 each. And the g1 and g2 weapons are a lot more visually interesting than what's effectively just a normal weapon with the bloom increased to 100%.

I see your point and your math (to my admittedly math challenged mind) as far as it goes seems spot on with how you anticipate it impacting the game and crafting. The only potentially mitigating factor is breadth of play. If the number of people who play strikes/raids is significantly larger than those who play fractals and especially CMs, that influx might offset this SOME, both in additional availability and demand as their own MC needs are reduced. Maybe. 

But I just don't see how even that potential mitigation will change things enough that this doesn't end up being a huge increase in the cost of crafting legendaries. It will either make people pay much more, or wait much longer to keep getting them through the slower sources (login, drizzle wood, reward tracks). Idk, maybe being too pessimistic too soon, but that is how it looks to me. 

[Malus.2184]

This is being billed as a discount while it's effectively a price increase. That's my real worry.

As it was before you could buy seven Clovers with the seven coins you got from the Anomaly and then you could buy the remaining seven Coins from the TP for a weekly total of 14 Clovers.

With the change you get enough Coins to buy eight Clovers. To get the remaining six (in order to match the old total), one would have to buy 11 coins off the TP. Even if the price of MC remains the same, five of the remaining six Clovers have effectively been doubled in price. The sixth is the same as before since only one Coin due to the odd number is needed to purchase it.

Five Clovers at effeticely the price of what could get you ten before the change hardly sounds like a discount to me, even if MCs have no direct use in g3.

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Jokuc.3478]

Why remove MCs from Fractal CMs? That is such a bad move. If you have Fractal God title and don't care about relics anymore there will literally be no reason to play the CMs now because without the MCs they will be less profitable than just doing Aetherblade lol

They should remove Fractal Mist Potions from the game to make this content more challenging and not as easily farmable for MCs.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Jokuc.3478

[kanemi.4903]

The solution isn't content, the solution is to create a content and attaching the most
used item to make 'legendaries' to the content, so the 'new content' doesn't end up being another FAILURE as the (OLD)strikes is and the so called DRMs.

Whoever thought of this...
Brilliant... 😄😄

 

[evlover.6270]

This just shows how disconnected they are from their own game. Let's completely remove mystic coins from cms so doing them becomes useless while it's active gameplay, wut? And how will doing cms be worth it for relics? Everyone that just does daily t4 will have plenty of relics to buy clovers. Relics were never the reason people did cms, the mystic coins are, take them away and cms are dead content. All of that, while in the meanwhile people are using programs that remember gw2 logins/passwords to automatically login on all of there alt accs (some people have like 20-100 alts from game keys they got from prime etc, even Teapot makes it no secret that he makes plenty of gold just by logging in on alts) for the mystic coins from daily logins.. Ever thought of doing it the other way around and remove mystic coins from login rewards and promote active gameplay instead? Because if you keep them in your daily login rewards after the fractal change, that becomes the main way to obtain them as you can only get 10 from strikes and 1 from anomaly then. Someone who logs in and out with 5 alts will "farm" mystic coins more efficient than people actually playing your game. That makes no sense.

If the mystic coin rewards from cms are too inconsistent, why not just remove them from the first bosses (mama, siax, skorvald, artsariiv and first phase of 100cm) and have 1-2 or 1-3 guaranteed (once/day) from the last boss of each cm (ensolys/arkk/dark ai)? And if you want to make the rewards consistent between fracts/strikes/raids, just add a few guaranteed mystic coins to certain strike/raid bosses as well. For example, add 1-2 or 1-3 mystic coins to every last boss of each raid wing (sabetha, matthias, xera, deimos, dhuum, qadim, qadim the peerless) and a 0-1 chance for the easy strike bosses (shiverpeaks, kodans, fraenir) and 1-2 for the harder/longer ones (boneskinner, whisper of jormag, forging steel, cold war) or whichever combination of handing them out in all 3 of those PvE modes makes the numbers add up more or less.

Tldr: remove mystic coins from daily login rewards, lower the amount from fractal cms, and add the number you take away from daily logins + fractal cms to strikes/raids so that more or less the same number would flow into the game like now from daily logins + daily cms from fractals. Would be way more fair to promote active gameplay among all the modes in this way and completely get rid of the passive daily login income from alt accounts that aren't used to actively play the game while doing so. This way people would have an incentive to play strikes/raids as was intended, without completely ruining fractal cms.

And as a side node, the numbers of obtaining mystic coins and converting to mystic clovers completely won't add up anymore in the new system. You can get only 10 mystic coins from strikes, while you can buy 5 clovers from strikes, 10 from raids and 10 from fractals, that's a weekly potential of 25 clovers needing 2 mystic coins each = 50 mystic coins. Where are you going to get those other 40 mystic coins? Doing anomaly for 1 mystic coin ain't going to cover that.. Just as getting 10 clovers from raids will cost 300 magnetite while the weekly cap is 150 magnetite, so it's basically only 5 clovers/week instead of 10 then for new people or people who haven't done raids before if they spend their magnetite on it every week?

Edited February 12, 2022 by evlover.6270
Rephrasing and clarification as people seemed confused

[Malus.2184]

36 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

Let's see how this works out. On the one hand, yes your daily fractal cm run will not make you as rich as it used to, on the other hand, with the option to convert more things into clovers, the demand of coins will also drop a bit or at least stabilize things. Only thing making coins skyrocket 100% now is panic buyers and I'm not sure posts like yours are helping with that.

There's no need to wait this out. Basic economics predicted centuries ago how this will pan out. While the supply of Mistyc Coins will increase the demand for Mystic Coins for clovers will increase more. If the price of anything is to remain stable the supply and demand of an item have to be at a roughly equal ratio. This will change the ratio of supply and demand for Mystic Coins. Especially if the g3 legendaries will need 250 Clovers instead of 250 Coins. Something this change suggests will happen.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Radina.6057]

Whats the point of those Clover vendors for the different types of content, if non of it drops Coins?

 

Are we supposed to buy them from the TP? The prices are quickly going to outgrow the demand, now that the trade price for clover doubled and one of the largest sources for Coins gets removed.

 

What kind of masterfully thought out scheme is this?

[blackoil.2673]

I'd like you to reconsider removing MC from fractals altoghether.

 

I think the reason makes sense, it was unreliable and probably a bit too much, and I can also understand it's a way of moving people from fractals to strikes. But removing MC altoghether from fractals I think is quite overkill.

 

Wouldn't it make sense to also have a reliable way of getting a maximum amount of MC, just as with strikes? E.g. a vendor that sells 1 mystic coin for 1 spirit shard + X fractal relics , up to 10 a week. This way players can choose what they want to play without over-farming a single game mode.

 

With the changes currently listed in the post, you're making Mystic Coins more scarce (because now making mystic clovers will cost twice as much Mystic Coins), while also bringing any mystic coin income from [whatever] down to 0. And, only people with EoD can get 10 mystic coins per week from strikes because it's only available from green prophet shards (the ones from EoD strikes). It just feels like you're limiting choices.

Edited February 12, 2022 by blackoil.2673

[Malus.2184]

5 minutes ago, evlover.6270 said:

If the mystic coin rewards from cms are too inconsistent, why not just remove them from the first bosses and have 1-2 or 1-3 guaranteed from the last boss of each cm? (one time daily) And if you want to make the rewards consistent between fracts/strikes/raids, just add 1 or 2 guaranteed mystic coins to certain bosses as well, like the endbosses of every raid wing or w/e that makes the numbers add up. Remove them from daily login, lower them from fracts, and add them to strikes/raids so that more or less the same number would flow into the game like what's the case now from daily logins + daily cms from fracts. Would be way more fair to promote active gameplay and completely get rid of the passive daily login while doing so. 

Like, I get why they want to push more people to strikes/raids but this wasn't the most convenient way to do it..

I agree, a far better solution would be to remove the ability from mid-bosses to drop Coins and the last boss should then consistently drop two Coins.

With the increased price this would still only be seven Clovers pr. week. Hardly something that would break the system.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Malus.2184

[ErisianMoon.1740]

The only thing well executed in this change is the incentive to play fractal cms. The idea of making coins and clovers reliable rewards across end game pve is a good idea imo, but simply axing coins from one game mode and adding them in lesser amount to another is a really bad way of doing so. Could have just made one guaranteed coin drop from every final boss of each fractal cm daily, the 10 from strikes, and then another 10 from raid cms weekly or something.

[Infusion.7149]

Where's the weekly WvW emblem to clovers? Cornerstone game mode, remember?

Raids didn't need a magnetite vendor, there's already a sink in terms of stat infusions.

I could see a reason to have a EOD strike currency conversion to clovers, but 5 per week is quite low.
 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Craine.8162]

11 minutes ago, Radina.6057 said:

Whats the point of those Clover vendors for the different types of content, if non of it drops Coins?

 

Are we supposed to buy them from the TP? The prices are quickly going to outgrow the demand, now that the trade price for clover doubled and one of the largest sources for Coins gets removed.

 

What kind of masterfully thought out scheme is this?

this exactly.

get 10 mystic coins out of strikes and combine them with the strike/raid/fractal currencies to get 5 clovers. thats it.

no matter how you twist it, there will always be two currencies unused and a lack of supply in mystic coins unless you buy additional mystic coins from the tp - which will definitely make the prices go up.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Craine.8162

[Radina.6057]

Thats clearly the main intention. They axe old content and promote the new one. They did it with dungeons, now they do it with fractals (and raids).

[Inshi.6970]

This is just forcing people from Fractals CMS to move to Strike Missions.

Since the latter are not so popular and you know... big part of new expansion cannot turn out a fail so they have to make it popular. So thats just it wrapped inside a beautiful idea how to make clovers more cheap and accessible, completely ignoring the fact that MCs market and all things related will skyrocket. 

Central planned economy never works Anet.

[ArchonWing.9480]

"Mystic coins are too common, let's  take away ways to get them"

-said no one ever.

I mean I don't do CMs anymore, but coins were a big deal with that, and I'm not going to arbitrarily switch over to raids or w/e just to get them.

Edited February 12, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Raizel.8175]

The thing is that Mystic Clovers never were the problem if you exchange your fractal relics daily for them. The problem always were Mystic Coins since they're the biggest gold sink in any legendary.

[Twilightzone.7452]

You can still get 6 from WvW or just farm gold and buy some. What also works if you log in daily, pick the free mystic coins.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Twilightzone.7452

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The problem was that players were doing Fractals for the MCs and then turning around and turning them into Mystic Clovers immediately, so as long as they were doing T4+CMs they not only got their required Mystic Coins & Clovers for free but turned a profit in doing so, which isn't how Legendaries are meant to be made.

 

All other methods of obtaining these items (especially PvP and WvW) require far more time and effort, and don't turn anywhere near as much of a profit.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Hannelore.8153