Why some professions get rapidly nerfed ..while others get a free pass for years before action is taken?

[Arheundel.6451]

Why did it take so long to come at the realization that Flamethrower engi is not the sort of gameplay which should exist in a MMO? You removed stability from Weaver within few months of launch and in that case you had to actually used decently long CD and still wasn't perma stability...but on engi you can have perma stability by pressing the auto-attack....

It's not the nerf itself that bothers me but the fact that the main reason why something is nerfed...doesn't seem to apply to all professions equally , even when the conditions may be exactly the same, we see how the same mechanic is nerfed on some professions while left untouched on others....... FA ele scepter , nerfed for being able to shoot behind its  back while running with superspeed....but we still have nade engi doing exactly the same thing and with far more sustain ....

 

The lack of consistency with balance is what still worries me about Anet, should we consider it personal bias at this point?

[Eugchriss.2046]

Because of the bandwagon effect. They don't nerf broken stuff, no they nerf what people play the most. They are constantly reacting instead of anticipating.

They were more weaver players than FT players back then. FA ele is auto targeted while holo needs tweaking with settings to be able to "burst" while running. Most player don't tweak those settings so there is less representation of this broken ability.

If you want something to be nerfed in this game the best way to do it is to make sure that everybody and their moma is doing exactly what you want to be nerfed. 

[Hotride.2187]

24 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Because of the bandwagon effect. They don't nerf broken stuff, no they nerf what people play the most. They are constantly reacting instead of anticipating.

They were more weaver players than FT players back then. FA ele is auto targeted while holo needs tweaking with settings to be able to "burst" while running. Most player don't tweak those settings so there is less representation of this broken ability.

If you want something to be nerfed in this game the best way to do it is to make sure that everybody and their moma is doing exactly what you want to be nerfed. 

So ugh... play necro and guard? But wait that has not been touched in a long while...

Sorry, I couldn't resist 🙂

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

So ugh... play necro and guard? But wait that has not been touched in a long while...

Sorry, I couldn't resist 🙂

Probably someone need to solo raid bosses again on these classes to get some kind of desired reaction.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

The comment "the gameplay of primarily sitting in flamethrower kit and autoattacking isn’t something that we like to see." in regards to FT scrapper is what really got me. There are so many other builds with un-interactive damage or sustain that are stronger than FT. This patch is basically them saying "hey its been a year since we did a pvp patch, here is the bare minimum to make people think we are still listening".

And they are definitely playing favorites with class balance. Necro, rev, engi have repeatedly dodged any sort of significant nerf that would take them out of the meta. Meanwhile if ele or war enter the meta they are nerfed out of it by the next patch.

[Eugchriss.2046]

2 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

So ugh... play necro and guard? But wait that has not been touched in a long while...

Sorry, I couldn't resist 🙂

What has been touched recently then? As far as I remember it was condi thief and condi dh. Guess what was the most played back then? Condi thief and condi dh. Guess what was meta? Condi thief and condi dh. Meta is litteraly the next in line for the nerf hammer.

[Bazsi.2734]

5 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Why did it take so long to come at the realization that Flamethrower engi is not the sort of gameplay which should exist in a MMO? You removed stability from Weaver within few months of launch and in that case you had to actually used decently long CD and still wasn't perma stability...but on engi you can have perma stability by pressing the auto-attack....

It's not the nerf itself that bothers me but the fact that the main reason why something is nerfed...doesn't seem to apply to all professions equally , even when the conditions may be exactly the same, we see how the same mechanic is nerfed on some professions while left untouched on others....... FA ele scepter , nerfed for being able to shoot behind its  back while running with superspeed....but we still have nade engi doing exactly the same thing and with far more sustain ....

 

The lack of consistency with balance is what still worries me about Anet, should we consider it personal bias at this point?

Weaver was nerfed back in the day when A-net still maintained the live game. The problems you mention here are ones that became apparent in the last 2-3 years, and we all know 2019 was when this dev studio had its huge layoffs, and ever since those events something has changed. Save some announcements(which are strictly one way) absolutely no communication, content patches became worse and worse, then they dried up completely, along with balance patches.
I belive all the devs are crunched to deliver EoD in time, there is NOBODY to care about the live game. Unless it's some gamebreaking bug/exploit, they won't care because they are not allowed to.
They are all out of excuses when EoD drops though. So they better fix all the problems we have been sitting on for years. 

[Vancho.8750]

50 minutes ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Weaver was nerfed back in the day when A-net still maintained the live game. The problems you mention here are ones that became apparent in the last 2-3 years, and we all know 2019 was when this dev studio had its huge layoffs, and ever since those events something has changed. Save some announcements(which are strictly one way) absolutely no communication, content patches became worse and worse, then they dried up completely, along with balance patches.
I belive all the devs are crunched to deliver EoD in time, there is NOBODY to care about the live game. Unless it's some gamebreaking bug/exploit, they won't care because they are not allowed to.
They are all out of excuses when EoD drops though. So they better fix all the problems we have been sitting on for years. 

I personally do not expect from them to fix anything, just to pile more garbage on top, if something is kitten right now it will not get better and the only hope are the new specs, but the issue is that allot of them seem like garbage for pvp and they do not bring anything new to the table. My favourite is Bladesworn, it doesn't seem like the RP they set up for it works in pvp and i do not seem to find any purpose that it can fill that it isn't already covered by warrior's other builds.  

Edited February 19, 2022 by Vancho.8750

[Caedmon.6798]

10 hours ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Because of the bandwagon effect. They don't nerf broken stuff, no they nerf what people play the most. They are constantly reacting instead of anticipating.

They were more weaver players than FT players back then. FA ele is auto targeted while holo needs tweaking with settings to be able to "burst" while running. Most player don't tweak those settings so there is less representation of this broken ability.

If you want something to be nerfed in this game the best way to do it is to make sure that everybody and their moma is doing exactly what you want to be nerfed. 

Not really though. Warri got wrecked in several ways because a "few" did very well with it and sadly making vids of it.

For example Vaans used to had lots of vids years back where he had 1 on 5+ quite easily. That gives attention to Anet,and when they see it they pretty sure as hell thought about changing something. But the thing they forget is,there is also Skill to what is being done. Not everyone is able to do whats being done. Warri has had some wrong nerfs just because a few know how to use it all well.

*Counter
*Healsig
*EP

The perfect rotation of counter + shieldblock + ep + making use of healsig regen was OP in the Right hands. Yet so many warris still easily died because they didnt play it right.

I dont think something should be nerfed because a few do very well on it.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Caedmon.6798

[BobbyT.7192]

Try being a thief player, where no patch notes is a good patch for them. Most of the time any buff thieves get comes with a hand full more of nerfs.

Sometimes you get things that are pre-nerfed

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Aim_(trait)

 - pistol skills now pierce, but deals 5% less.

That was reworked from another trait and came like that. Fun times.

 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

3 hours ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

Not really though. Warri got wrecked in several ways because a "few" did very well with it and sadly making vids of it.

For example Vaans used to had lots of vids years back where he had 1 on 5+ quite easily. That gives attention to Anet,and when they see it they pretty sure as hell thought about changing something. But the thing they forget is,there is also Skill to what is being done. Not everyone is able to do whats being done. Warri has had some wrong nerfs just because a few know how to use it all well.

*Counter
*Healsig
*EP

The perfect rotation of counter + shieldblock + ep + making use of healsig regen was OP in the Right hands. Yet so many warris still easily died because they didnt play it right.

I dont think something should be nerfed because a few do very well on it.

I don't think the holy CmC specifically targeted Warrior. Every class got nerfs, nerfs, and nothing but nerfs. Warrior just felt these particularly hard because they rely a lot of CC and CC damage got butchered. 

 

Bull's Charge for instance used to have a power coeff of 2.0. It was enough to get people low enough to where arcing slice could actually do damage. Now; not only does the skill do 0 damage, but arcing slice in general also does less damage on top of not being able to get the damage bonus for being < 50% health.

 

You would have to play some wack glass build to get anywhere near the damage of old. Something like 1-shot zerker and that really isn't worth it.

 

Warrior is worth nothing more than being a stunbot at the minute and if damage falls any lower, low enough to where warrior becomes good again by default then i'm going out for a diet pepsi and may possibly never return. frfr

[AliamRationem.5172]

13 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The comment "the gameplay of primarily sitting in flamethrower kit and autoattacking isn’t something that we like to see." in regards to FT scrapper is what really got me. There are so many other builds with un-interactive damage or sustain that are stronger than FT. This patch is basically them saying "hey its been a year since we did a pvp patch, here is the bare minimum to make people think we are still listening".

And they are definitely playing favorites with class balance. Necro, rev, engi have repeatedly dodged any sort of significant nerf that would take them out of the meta. Meanwhile if ele or war enter the meta they are nerfed out of it by the next patch.

That perma stab is pretty stupid, though.  I don't care whether the build is effective or not.  That just shouldn't ever be a thing.

[Zekent.3652]

Like weaver and mirage being literally op sidenoders for so long before 2020 bal patch? yeah.

[Burial.1958]

12 hours ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

Try being a thief player, where no patch notes is a good patch for them. Most of the time any buff thieves get comes with a hand full more of nerfs.

Sometimes you get things that are pre-nerfed

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Aim_(trait)

 - pistol skills now pierce, but deals 5% less.

That was reworked from another trait and came like that. Fun times.

 

I can't remember 1 Patch where Thief don't got nerfed and only became shiny Patchnotes. Sad man. 

[BobbyT.7192]

1 minute ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

I can't remember 1 Patch where Thief don't got nerfed and only became shiny Patchnotes. Sad man. 

There was a patch right before Xmas, where there was nothing for the thief. So that was cool I guess.

[FILIPaTL.7450]

how is ft broken

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 2/19/2022 at 8:18 AM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The comment "the gameplay of primarily sitting in flamethrower kit and autoattacking isn’t something that we like to see." in regards to FT scrapper is what really got me. There are so many other builds with un-interactive damage or sustain that are stronger than FT. This patch is basically them saying "hey its been a year since we did a pvp patch, here is the bare minimum to make people think we are still listening".

And they are definitely playing favorites with class balance. Necro- 

I wanna just address that last bit for a sec.

Yes Necro has been disgusting recently.

That being said Necro is probably the furthest thing from class favorite over time. It's been repeatedly nuked between HoT and partway through PoF. It had a brief run as op with scourge but WvW antics saw to it that it got banished for a couple years. 

Not excusing it currently but it hasn't always been that way. There may have been a favorite shift sometime recently since mesmer was in the limelight from then up to the megapatch. 

Quote

engi-

that one too, but less so than necro. once holo hit live it's been consistently good

I think so far every class has had a broken period. Some have been nerfbatted harder than they should, though.. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 2/19/2022 at 7:43 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Warrior is worth nothing more than being a stunbot at the minute

Nerf war cc btw I should be able to press buttons, how do you expect me to stunbreak without getting hit by another cc, literally unplayable

[Eddbopkins.2630]

On 2/19/2022 at 4:00 AM, Arheundel.6451 said:

The lack of consistency with balance is what still worries me about Anet, should we consider it personal bias at this point?

this has got me to stop playing gw2 altogether. its been 9 years and literally they have done nothing to satisfy me in pvp. 2 year balance changes? wtf are they thinking or maybe they not cuz of laziness i dont know anymore but after 9 years i have moved on!

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nerf war cc btw I should be able to press buttons, how do you expect me to stunbreak without getting hit by another cc, literally unplayable

I would come up with a whimsy retort, but i'll instead take this time to thank CMC for raising the CD's of every Stunbreak to around or well over a minute. AKA 1/10th of the length of an average PvP match.

Literally 10/10

 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

17 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I would come up with a whimsy retort, but i'll instead take this time to thank CMC for raising the CD's of every Stunbreak to around or well over a minute. AKA 1/10th of the length of an average PvP match.

Literally 10/10

 

Unless you're a ranger... In which case you get Lightning Reflexes at 24s, Protect Me at 32s, and Quickening Zephyr at 32s (assuming they're traited, which they almost always are).

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

9 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Unless you're a ranger... In which case you get Lightning Reflexes at 24s, Protect Me at 32s, and Quickening Zephyr at 32s (assuming they're traited, which they almost always are).

What's this? Stunbreaks on a reasonable CD?

I shall inform the Nerf father post-haste. This is completely unacceptable. 😰

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

What's this? Stunbreaks on a reasonable CD?

I shall inform the Nerf father post-haste. This is completely unacceptable. 😰

Ehhh... They're probably too short, especially LR. And even more especially because they are traited with a trait and trait line that everyone takes (I.e., there is no opportunity cost)...and because, so traited, they cleanse 2 conditions (LR and QZ). And because ranger and afford to take all 3 on their bar without losing significant offense or utility.

 

The big picture of balance is more than just CD length.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Just now, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

The big picture of balance is more than just CD length.

True enough, there is more to it.

The other big half of CMC's balance is also lowering power coefficients, but since the power coeff of LR is already 0.01 as are countless other skills, that's not too much of a problem here.

But that is also 1 less way in which that particular skill could be nerfed. Damage will literally not go any lower on skills like that.

 

The only way they do balance now in general, is to increase CDs and lower overall damage of skills/traits. 

Reworking skills/traits just clearly isn't in CMC's repertoire. If they want to rework a skill now they slap a 300s CD on it and claim it will be redone "later" but 2 years in and they've made negative progress on that. For real, some EoD specs like Specter are coming prepacked with 300s CD traits at expansion release, unless that changed since the EoD beta.

[DoomNexus.5324]

On 2/19/2022 at 4:48 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

They are all out of excuses when EoD drops though. So they better fix all the problems we have been sitting on for years. 

They then have to work on Living Story 5/6 until they are yet again interrupted with another addon to keep the lights on because Anet still hasn't figured out a sustainable business model.