Necrosian.1359 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Cloudz.6890 said: No idea why RNG is a factor for which mechanics are used. Had another group do everything perfectly. Buffs, green, DPS and even the wave. Soo decided she wanted to use her tail attacks and evade for basically the last 35% of the fight. We were at 50% with 10 minutes left over and failed at 25%. Got 2 breakbars, but people were constantly running to tail. Not to mention the visual madness of trying to target the right thing between Soo, mobs and bubbles. And then she moves below the arena sometimes so new people just stop attacking. This just isn't fun. Same happened to me. Done killing the tail, running back to boss to CC and the boss decides to switch. We miss the CC tail comes up again. An i kid you not this same scenario repeats twice more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniyyel.3428 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) I was lucky enough to get on a map that was successful. The commander was very good at calling. More importantly, which was the first time I seen this out of many many failed attempts People listened to the commander. And the Commander was really pushing everyone to have the offensive and defensive buffs applied right before taking the lift to boss. We had about 10 secs left on the timer and we did have mesmers putting portals down for switching sides. That being said. I really enjoyed the meta but all the failed attempts have made it where I have no desire to go back until they tune this meta some more. For the sake of the players and the game I hope Anet really does more than just what they did today. People want to enjoy the game. Not spend hours and hours just to have a fail by a few seconds. I mean come on adding one or even two min to the timer isn't going to break the game. Edited March 5, 2022 by danielrjones.8759 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaniesan.8497 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) Yeh same, was in an extremely good group. People good at staying alive and coordinated. But failed when the last 1% refused to go down no matter how we tried. I will have to boycott this event till they fix it. I will also encourage others to as well. We wont die without turtle. We can in the mean time to gather mats and stuff for legs. It's incredibly messed up on Anet's part to toy with people's time. People already discussed open map content vs. raid level content, i won't repeat it here. Edited March 5, 2022 by quaniesan.8497 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitybee.3614 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Was in a map about an hour ago and we failed with around 34% health. What doesn't make sense is the health at the beginning gets burned down quite fast. We got her to 88% in like the first 1-2 minutes of the fight, so I was hopeful. Once it comes down to all the rotations, plus the platforms, wisps, etc there's little to no time left to finish her off. This really needs a re-work or more time added to the clock. If we had 30 mins it's probably do-able, but even still a chance at failed instances. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis.8034 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 On 3/1/2022 at 12:19 PM, Sarius.9285 said: yea, and honestly the EoD Meta isn't nearly as bad imo. But let's see if they nerf it in the next weeks Are we playing the same meta? Soo Won is raid level you have mechanics on top of mechanics its like a Xera/ souless horror fight with dragons. Most people cant do that, its fine to have it in game as the meta, but totally not fine to have the turtle completely linked to it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaWolvesGamer.5790 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said: Was in a map about an hour ago and we failed with around 34% Can't help but feel that was caused by people ignoring the Tail mechanics considering she practically negates all DPS while her tail is alive. Attempts failed by poor RNG usually fail below 10%. Anything higher than 20% and I'm more inclined to believe people were ignoring mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friday.7864 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 So the only ones who are having fun with this are hardcore players and streamers like teapot who can profit off of this by making content. Everyone else is sad, disappointed, mentally drained and is having their expansion ruined by Anet's open world elitism. We envisioned it like that, why would player opinion matter, it's fine. People don't want you in map? You don't have killproof? Your problem. I am simply bamboozled by their reasoning. I literally cannot comprehend how they can be so dense. You have to be pretty heartless to push casual players or people with disabilities into such content. Even if they ask for help my hands are tied, they might even get called out for ruining meta runs and whatnot - so congrats on introducing player toxicity into open world and making people's lives miserable after taking their money. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephire.8049 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Welp, only did two attempts today because organized maps are full over ahead of time and it's too much waiting around for map reset and hoping the map you end up in is a meta one. I will say the changes they made felt a lot better but it's still too RNG for what she does and her CC bar happening when her tail is up lead to a lot of yelling at people and blaming them for a slow tail or failed CC. Wisps are a huge improvement but everything else... not so much. I avoid raid content most of the time in part because of the conflict it can create between people and I certainly wouldn't even be attempting this meta if the turtle—an expansion feature Anet hyped up—wasn't locked behind it. Mechanically and story-wise I like the fight, I just can't stand the sheer difficulty and how it pits players against each other. Having to essentially AFK on the map instead of doing other things also puts a damper on it. Some of the continued changes I'd make would be to not have CC and tail happen at the same time, have an internal cooldown for when she swaps sides, reduce the sheer AOE for the wisps phase, and reduce the health for the split phase champions by 5-10%. Or even just upping the number of players allowed in a map instance would help. I appreciate what they were going for but this is harder than any raid I've been in even with the "nerf". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcyph.2407 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) Did this meta today. About 1hr 45 mins all things considered I believe. We got into map, got into a discord, running with a full squad with 10 sub groups, we had alacrity, quickness and good DPS classes. We owned the escort and got into the boss fight and did all the mechanics correctly. We failed because she decided to switch sides in the arena 4 times in a row. We had 2 break bars in the entire fight. One in 100-80 which was easy. One in 80-60 which spawned at the same time the tail spawned which is absolutely BS. We did the greens, we did all the MECHANICS correctly. Why are players being punished with rng mechanics where you can't even target her? I am not wasting 8 more hours of my life to try and get a "good rng" run on this boss. Make the mechanics make sense please. Have a break bar each health phase, have her only move on in-between health percentages between phases. I don't get why she has to move 4 times in a single phase and we lose out on crazy dps time due to that and having tails at the same time. You know why people run meta events? It's because its supposed to be fun. This isn't fun. Its work. I don't log onto Guild Wars 2 to do 2 hours of work only to fail with no fault to the squad but instead its because the boss is not able to be targeted multiple times in health phases. If I fail something, I want it to be because we did a mistake or failed mechanics or I messed up. Not feel like it was complete an utterly out of my control. Meta events are the reason I play this game, but as soon as people fight tooth and nail for their turtle, do you really think their going to do the meta event again? I sure won't be doing it until things get sorted. It really says a lot when GW2Efficiency achievement tracker shows only .09% of players have completed the stomping around achievement since launch of the expansion. This isn't a fun meta, this isn't even a mechanically challenging meta, it's a literal race the timer and pray for rng or you are going to lose. Edited March 5, 2022 by Jcyph.2407 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaniesan.8497 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) yeh, open world content shouldn't get to the discord level. This is not fun. Anet would rather uphold their dense "standard" of difficulty at the expense of people's personal time. If this were a college classroom, Anet'd be the kind of teacher that'd fail you for getting ONLY 9 out of 10 questions right. Whatever pride or veritas they are pursuing as devs, it's at our expense. Even if this fight were to add another 3 mins on it, it'd still be extremely challenging and razor thin margin for most pugs, which is open map pretty much. I'm just gona boycott this meta for now. It's mentally exhausting. Edited March 5, 2022 by quaniesan.8497 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrosian.1359 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 RNG needs to be removed. "Go get the tail" > "Watch out shes getting hungry" > "Watch out for her head" > "Shes getting hungry again" > "Watch out for her head" > breakbar at 61% so helpful! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 I resent being basically forced to raid by this meta. Yet, I feel compelled to finish the battle before I finish the personal story. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friday.7864 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, quaniesan.8497 said: yeh, open world content shouldn't get to the discord level. This is not fun. Anet would rather uphold their "standard" of difficulty at the expense of people's personal time. If this were a college classroom, Anet'd be the kind of teacher that'd fail you for getting ONLY 9 out of 10 right.. Even if this fight were to add another 3 mins on it, it'd still be extremely challenging and razor thin margin for most pugs, which is open map pretty much. From their last Dragon's End meta announcement post I understood the following: "You are just a number. We are only looking at success rates until we get what WE envisioned." People having a horrible time with the event? People not having fun? Mounting player frustration? It's like whatever. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarius.9285 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Artemis.8034 said: Are we playing the same meta? Soo Won is raid level you have mechanics on top of mechanics its like a Xera/ souless horror fight with dragons. Most people cant do that, its fine to have it in game as the meta, but totally not fine to have the turtle completely linked to it. idk, the mechanics aren't that crazy, but Anet already increased the damage the boss takes and increased the timer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cregath.7628 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Literally what Jcyph said. All that DPS time and whatnot is nice. The damage buff from greens is cool too. But then we have like 3 second windows to deal damage or even less. It's not about difficulty. It's about the boss acting on pure RNG. Once below 60% HP, the boss seems to have forgotten that it's wave attack exists and keeps changing places. Except when it's not it does Tail, so there goes your damage window. If RNG is not on your side, then you literally can't kill it. It's not about difficulty or potato people. It's about the boss not letting you. The damage buff from greens and the exposed status from CC are your big damage opportunities. What happened to these on my last try? Well, we broke the bar 3 out of the 5 CC phases we had. What about the other 2? One was when we just kicked the boss down to it's threshold. No point breaking that. The other was when we were halfway running to the tail. Even if we turned around to break it instantly, there is a good chance we wouldn't have made it. And even if we did, the tail is still there. Which makes it pointless to even try breaking it. But we still had 3 breaks, right? Well, yes, but we couldn't use them except the first. One time out of the other two breaks she just did tail, so we had like 5 seconds of useage out of the exposed, because it does take 30 seconds to run to tail, kill it, then wait a bit in place, because she is doing the spot change once. As for the other... it was between 40-20%. She decided to slide across the platform 3-4 times in a row. But what about greens? We had greens too, right? Yeah... we did... we could use the first one. It was fine. But then the second time, she did tail, first thing after greens were over. Then remember how I just said the 3-4 slides across the platform? You can take a guess what happened with that buff. The 2 minutes damage buff sounds good on paper. The 30 seconds exposed sounds pretty tasty too. But in reality, you can't use either of these longer than you did before the patch. Simply because RNG won't let you. The problem was never buff and debuff duration. Or even the DPS or CC people do. It's the fact that the boss is invulnerable for so ridiculously long just because of all the position switches it does. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephire.8049 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, Cregath.7628 said: The 2 minutes damage buff sounds good on paper. The 30 seconds exposed sounds pretty tasty too. But in reality, you can't use either of these longer than you did before the patch. Simply because RNG won't let you. The problem was never buff and debuff duration. Or even the DPS or CC people do. It's the fact that the boss is invulnerable for so ridiculously long just because of all the position switches it does. Yep. Extra damage sounds nice but your damage bonus is effectively zero when the boss invulns constantly and you have to run back and forth on the platform because she keeps moving. It's no wonder that groups are now requiring ranged condi DPS in raid gear/build/DPS as melee is rendered all but useless unless you luck out on RNG and she stays still long enough that you can do your rotation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Groups definitely needs portal mesmers too, as so much time is wasted by running back and forth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Friday.7864 said: From their last Dragon's End meta announcement post I understood the following: "You are just a number. We are only looking at success rates until we get what WE envisioned." People having a horrible time with the event? People not having fun? Mounting player frustration? It's like whatever. Yeah, Anet wanted to created something big for the end of the dragon cycle. They have. But maybe not in way they intended to. I like (and do) challenging content. Its fun. Part of the fun is trying again if I screw up, until I succeed. But this open world 50+ raid is not fun. It does not matter for my success if I play it perfectly or if I screw up. Its just luck if I am placed in a map with other 50+ good players or not and if the RNG of the fight makes winning impossible or not. Thats not fun. Also not fun is not be able to try it again after a failure to be able to learn and become better. After a failure we have to do "busy work" for hours until we are allowed to try it again (with proabably completely different players). How can "a map" learn this fight if we can not practice and try again immediately? Thats the reason why we sometimes "/gg" in raids. To try again as fast as possible. Also not fun is the toxic behaviour during the fight (and after a failure) in the chat blaming other players for the failure and insulting them. Its the most toxic behaviour of a lot of players in open world PvE I saw for a long time. This fight should have been instanced content for 50 players. That would be perfect. Its already what a lot of squads are doing. These squads try to cheese the multi-server system with map hopping etc. to create a new/free map instance, their private map. The remaining players that are not in those organized squads are left in other maps without much chance to succeed. In the PvE open world Anets principle was ad-hoc cooperation with other players and the design goal of the game in open world was "you should always be happy to see other players". Its seems this finally also ended in Dragons End. Edited March 5, 2022 by Zok.4956 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friday.7864 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 24 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said: In the PvE open world Anets principle was ad-hoc cooperation with other players and the design goal of the game in open world was "you should always be happy to see other players". Its seems this finally also ended in Dragons End. This 🙂 My 2am successful run did their best to have as little random players in instance as possible. If a certain portion of the players can't be carried through a meta it's a failure on Anet's part. It's like they're designing content for themselves, not the actual people who pay for the darn game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psizone.8437 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) Just failed the meta before the boss fight because the East group couldn't kill their salt dragon. I went over to see over 20 players downed and not waypointing. Anet, you're asking too much for your playerbase on this one, and from 20+ pug runs, it looks like you're asking too much by a long shot. The average guild wars 2 player just isn't cut out for this meta. Just add the turtle egg to the hatchery mission on the map and make the meta reward something else so that people that actually want to finish the meta aren't being dragged down by lazy players. Edited March 5, 2022 by psizone.8437 Added a paragraph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrosian.1359 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Five switches in a row on last 5% what kind a kitten is this? Who though this was a good idea? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune.9572 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) Attempt #15, we RNG'd into CC phase and won. It really is dumb when 2 hours of effort get erased by RNG tail/swoop. I don't see this meta being done on repeat in this current state, very much one and done at this point. Edited March 5, 2022 by rune.9572 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inaho.2046 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Alright, failed again this morning. I'm DONE wasting my time and done with the new maps. I'm going to go back to regular raids 2 days a week and finish a 3rd set of legendary armor in medium over the next year. With the turtle barred behind a 50-man raid (Yes, I know those mechanics from raids and forcing me to do them with randoms guarantees failure - it's a terrible deign for an open world meta that frustrates everyone from my autistic daughter who doesn't want to play anymore because of it, to me an experienced raider with 2 sets of legendary armor finished, and she wanted the turtle so badly). Doing something impossible over and over again while hoping for a different result just leads to frustration, anger, and eventually hatred of the game. I'm terribly disappointed with anet locking the turtle behind an impossible open world meta to make a few try-hard players happy (and I'm sure I'm not alone in my disappointment). 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonthefelon.8951 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 It's amazing how fast this problem is growing. Now you have a collection of players who have managed to win, but are now exhausted by the effort and ridiculous busywork and are either boycotting or going back to far more enjoyable content. Slowly the pool of players doing the DE meta becomes only those who haven't gotten lucky with the RNG and are just growing more frustrated. So silly. Considering the mountain of other map wide metas that are fun, rewarding, and tuned/scale properly, it's a bit bewildering we're encountering this issue in the third expansion. Who was the focus group for this? Who was the testing crew? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Bat.1570 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 My quick fix, keep the difficulty as is. Let players get a turtle egg from the hatchery without any relation to the meta. Drop sellable legendaries for beating the meta. Best thing you can do now is just not play. This is crazy hard because they want it to be something players keep doing. Doesn't matter how angry you are while doing it. If it looks like it is actually causing players to leave, they'll start trying to fix it. Never thought a new Guild Wars expansion would cause me to just go play old Monster Hunter but here we are. 😕 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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