Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Almaden.6782]

16 hours ago, DaKine.2694 said:

The success rate is increasing because players are forming organized squads and gatekeeping non-meta builds. After around 8 or 9 attempts, I finally joined one of these squads and saw countless people get kicked because they weren’t quickness or alac builds. They even kicked everyone that was playing a new elite spec. Even with hours of prep work and squad organization, we only beat it with 30 seconds left. Now, the successful squads that I’ve seen are either squads that only take the role they need, or squads that require a decent kp to join.

If your goal was to gatekeep most of your average player base from completing this meta and getting the turtle mount, mission accomplished.

This is exactly what ran me out of WoW. Uber players abusing casuals.

[Tails.9372]

47 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

they want to reward players for doing mechanics

Except that's not what they are doing here. "rewarding players for doing the mechanics" would be to have a fight where a proper execution of the mechanics would lead to a "shortcut". What they are doing on the other hand is punishing players for not doing the mechanics which, given the context, was bound to turn the whole thing into a dumpster fire.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

Wow, it's really mind boggling to see the sheer number of people on here doing nothing but complaining and griping. Yes, the meta is one of the most challenging they have made to date, but it's also overall a wonderfully designed experience that just needs a bit of tweaking.

 

Also, do you people not realize the expac has been live for literally 5 days at this point? It's been less than a week and most people on this thread are crying like it's the end of the world and that they aren't getting what they paid for and blah blah, ad infinitum.

 

There are ALWAYS bound to be over/undertuned bits of content at the release of an expansion. That is just how gaming works, no online game launch in history has been completely perfect and free of issues from day 1. A lot of you need to drop your unrealistic first week expectations, give Anet a little bit of time to fix some things (they're already clearly working on it!) and enjoy the content based on more than just 1 meta event. It WILL get better.

[elrin.4750]

 I think it's not fair for Anet to waste peoples time with the unfun meta just to get the turtle.  People bought the expansion expecting FUN, not frustration and toxicity.

 

[Blaeys.3102]

If Arenanet wants to see how well this meta is bringing the community together, all they have to do is look at the last few posts in this thread.

[kaesebrezen.3104]

1 minute ago, XECOR.2814 said:

. Also how can you tell no one will do it again after getting turtle. We are few days in the expansion and people haven't figured everything out yet and you are claiming whats gonna happen. Complaining this early in the expansion just because people cant roll over the event like rest of the content in the game instead of trying more and figuring stuff out and honestly just getting better at the game makes me take the stand im taking.

Because people do stuff based on;

1) rewards

2) fun

3) time investment

 

While i'd say conceptually the final fight seem fun, everything leading up to it , at least to me, is not.

 

Directly compare Dragonfall pre-events and farm in terms of engagement and variety of evens and modes of traveling to Jade Sea.

Jade Sea pre-events are dull an boring. The escorts are about the same in excitement, just Jade Sea is signifcantly longer in time commitment.

In Dragonfall, there's a pretty good variety of events, you get keys for your loot pinataat the oss chests, and the champion train.

In Dragonfall, you can join any time during the meta, wether it is pre, boss, or post boss chests - you just at some point need to farm the keys. In Jade Sea, you have to do the pre-event to get the most out of the boss event, including a chance at beating it.

In Dragonfall, you get rewarded at every step. In Jade Sea, you only get rewarded on success.

 

As has been written several times, the Jade Sea boss lacks consistency. While RNG can good, if the RNG allows for certain boss abilities to never happen and for it so significantly impact the chance of a kill, then it's bad. The boss can do the following patterns:

- At 75% you get your break bar, you break it, the boss just does his dodge right or dodge circle abilities. You can easily get the boss to 60% within the break bar window.

- At 75% the boss spawns the tails, you kill the tail. While the you're at the tail, the boss gets a breakbar. You still somehow to manage to get the tail and breakbar, the boss decides to just swap sides twice in a row. You

- The boss decides to just swap sides and spawn her tails. You get a breakbar at 62%.

 

Just watch this video:

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Luck should have nothing to do with a meta battle. You try, you fail , you learn then try again and eventually you get good enough to beat the boss. Luck should never come into a design, that's just kitten poor design work period.

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

I just wish they could've made the pre more fun, not just escort them, kill them. 

Like, 

Ice dragon champs - fighting them on a ice platform, that slippery and people get frozen, and something like that. 

Fire dragon champs - Fighting them on lava platform, hot stream pops and makes you jump high. 

Death dragon champs - inorder to fight them you need to die and gain death buff, and similar like that. 

Crystal dragon champs - idk, something fun here too. 

Plant dragon champs - all sylvari are affected by a buff which makes them hostile. 

 

Every champs you slain will give you buff against the noodle dragon. 

[lissiandra.1357]

7 hours ago, Vexona.6452 said:

That's the great thing about raids; you're always getting better. Even on the RNG heavier fights, we know X will happen with a possibility of 1 or 3 things. But you are right in that Soo-Won's RNG actually makes the fail, especially when people are understanding and getting into green circles now.

 

yea, there's the difference. You very rarely fail raids because of bad RNG. Like yes, you can get unlucky on QtP and get every single lightning mechanic or shark mechanic; or you can get unlucky on Slothasor and he never unfixates you as a thief rune running DPS, but getting unlucky isn't the difference between killing and not killing. Also Slothasor doesn't have an unpredictable immunity phase where it's impossible to DPS him. You always know when that breakbar is coming.

That clearly hasn't been the case for this meta. Some people claim you can just outDPS the luck, but that's the equivalent of expecting everyone to outDPS pillars on Adina or something. I have a hard enough time fighting roster boss for my weekly raids, I ain't fighting roster boss for a squad of 50 for this meta (there's also the separate problem of, I shouldn't be asking for kp or fractal titles for a open world meta boss but I'm past that point mentally where I just want to kill her even if I have to be elitist about it so I can get the turtle/prima donna comp item and never come back)

 

Raids also checkpoint so you can actually get better, not have to wait two hours to roll the dice again with Escort taking an hour long

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

1 hour ago, XECOR.2814 said:

Your complaining affects the game i'm playing. It is in my interest to comment.

This isn't just your game, this is a game for all players of different commitment and skill level. Maybe learn to understand that before you cry "toxic casuals" 

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

10 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

This isn't just your game, this is a game for all players of different commitment and skill level. Maybe learn to understand that before you cry "toxic casuals" 

This reminds me of that one player that I came across in Wayfarer who started to yell at me "Flexer" for purely gliding next to him by complete coincidence. They were mad thinking the world rotates around their belly buttons.

[Gorani.7205]

I could cope with the current difficulty, if I could see anything on the platform and not suffer from such a big drop in FPS due to the visual clutter. I was in a very well organized attempt this afternoon and it still failed with the final boss only down to 25% when the time ran out. With less visual clutter people will very likely be better at dodging the "half circle wave", which kills most of the people and forces them to respawn and come back (20-30 sec of missed damage & cc). Perhaps making the floating bubbles with only half the health would help too.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

3 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Well... I do raids and fractals frequently and still think that the meta event is badly designed and needs a serious overhaul. Design-wise, the meta event is just pure trash. The impact of the RNG-aspect is far too strong. Obviously, they want to reward players for doing mechanics. If the Exposed debuff, which should lead to a burst phase, gets swallowed by the tail mechanic and/or boss movement, you just ridicule players. The tail mechanic itself is a huge punishment with no reward behind itself. Doing that mechanic should also lead to a reward - be it that damaging the tail also damages Soo-Won or whatsoever.

I think that the tail should be stopped by the CCing of Soo-Won. Give the players a chance to stop it from happening, and give them the exposed buff at the same time.

That would be a good change to start with.

[daninumbers.4036]

Forcing 1 - 2 hours events that you get literally nothing with a really high fail rate (I just know 1 person that finally made it and you can see most people here) with too much rng and random untargetable phases is stupid design for a game that would make challenging things with *prestige* rewards as expensive or optional. The griffon and the skyscale? Prestige mounts that are mainly expensive and time consuming. You need a group for some things but that's it. Legendary armor? Either you spend lots of time in wvw or a bit less in pvp for a fairly plain skin, or go for a challenge to make it shorter doing raids and getting the flashy one with lots of effects. In the end the utility is the same and you have those that love challenges getting the fashion wars stuff.

 

Then here we have a mount that's one of the main features advertised. Want a fishing rod? You get it just by getting to Cantha. Want a skiff? Progress a little and do a simple heart. Want the bot? I was surprised it was randomly given away by doing story, nothing else required and craft the modules. And then the mount is locked behind something insanely hard for some reason that they plan to keep like that so it's the epic ending of everything. The fight itself is fine. All of the preparations needed are tiring, especially when you need to do several pre-events to get extra chests when you know it's very likely you won't get anything.

Also you know, a challenging and epic fight, yes, go for it. Seeing that most times evil wins to me just taints the story. The commander and their team are never enough. You've come so far killing 5 dragons to perish at the final battle over and over again. Also anticlimatic, if that means it's the end of Tyria and the whole world I would expect a cutscene with everything being destroyed, like Majora's Mask bad ending. We just get a well guys, let's go home, it was nice to fight you. It wouldn't fix anything but hey, at least you get an end of failing meta making sense. C'mon, even failing Silverwastes meta kills everyone there.

 

And back to topic, what most annoys me is it's random, with too much untargetable time and a very short timer for such massive amount of hp. If we can't hit it how are we supposed to kill it? 5 mins left and 40% hp but nope, you can't shave off any hp because the game decides that you have to do something else. And when you finally are allowed to fight there are just 30 seconds left. Yeah, genious. You can monitor it over the weekend with anyone else that still has the will to try but not me, I've wasted too much time on this so far. 15 mins of Dragonstorm are way more rewarding than this bs.

[difens.1326]

I'll be blunt: ANet - if you wish to make ANY money off turtle skins, you guys better work on alternative ways for unlocking the turtle (and yes, remove that strike mission requirement too). Leave the meta as it is, hardcores and raiders can farm it all day, I don't care. Also, don't forget to adjust the mount, so it's actually usable in open world by a single person.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

9 minutes ago, daninumbers.4036 said:

We just get a well guys, let's go home, it was nice to fight you. It wouldn't fix anything but hey, at least you get an end of failing meta making sense. C'mon, even failing Silverwastes meta kills everyone there.

Mordremoth kills everyone if the Dragon's Stand event is failed, and this fight is supposed to be more important than that one. I was surprised the first time when I hit a loading screen. Initially I had no idea what was happening.

[Cranberry.5849]

Suggestion

 

1 Phase (Excluding first phase) = 1 Tail up and 1 Swap up. Thats all I ask. No Rng nonsense

Edited March 5, 2022 by Cranberry.5849

[Heibi.4251]

Glad to see they are looking at this but I don't think they really are paying attention. This is a make or break moment. Either pander to the elites and lose your player base or listen to the masses and make it challenging but doable without having to rely on Elite squads and luck of the draw.  You've already seen the numerous players state they are done with GW2 after this catastrophe of a META. 

You need to fix the broken mechanics, eliminate the no dps phases involved with the greens, and unlock the Siege Turtle after simply finishing the story.

You have an impatient player base who payed good money for this expansion. Simply monitoring success rates over the weekend will not solve this. 

I refuse to do this META again until the issues are fixed. I don't have time to waste on a 2 hour fail attempt. That's not good game design. 

I hope you're reading every response, but...

[Fishrock.5207]

It would be very welcome to not have the map prep take over an hour. Spending 2 hours to fail feels really bad. Even DS is shorter at a max time on 1.5 hours.

The continuous time investment on this is very very high which makes people’s reactions to failing so much worse.

Edit: in particular, I think the fixed countdown could be massively reduced. 30 minutes is so long. People just AFK because they’ve already done events for the last 40minutes to an hour. 10 or even 5 minutes would probably be enough. I’d bet such a change would be massively well received.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Fishrock.5207

[Heibi.4251]

On a side note:

Warning signs that this should never have been open world content.

1. KILL PROOF being asked for.

2. One person able to troll the whole META

3.  Paying people to leave the map.

4. Bullying people off the map.

5. Specific builds and classes being required by squads.(yes, I know we want people to do good damage)

6. High Fail Rates even if everything is done properly.

I'm sure there are more that can be added. But when you have all of the above happen in the first few days of a new OPEN WORLD META there is obviously something wrong that needs to be IMMEDIATELY addressed.  

Edited March 5, 2022 by Heibi.4251

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

wait... if this is supposed to be the ultimate boss battle that closes a 10 year storyline,  why is it one of the worst maps for rewards? Silverwastes is TONS better at rewarding players time. and it's superceded by several maps afterward: like mordremoth map, kralkatorric map, drizzlewood, several PoF LW maps.

 

heck, it seems like doing a core Tyria world boss train (1 boss every 15 minutes) is way more rewarding than completing a single map meta in Dragon's End. even Ulgoth meta is more rewarding!

[lissiandra.1357]

update: finally finished the meta

 

loot: worse than serpent's ire lmao, only the memories of aurene are worth and those will eventually go down as long as everyone does the meta (since they start dropping from dragonstorm, dragonfall, etc.)

accomplishment level feeling: i dont feel like i won the meta, i feel like i won the lottery in terms of boss rng. we only got tail like 3 times the entire fight

Edited March 5, 2022 by lissiandra.1357

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, difens.1326 said:

and yes, remove that strike mission requirement too

Pretty much this, the fact that we haven't seen threads about the SM requirement just further shows that the vast majority of groups are unable to clear the event but once A-Net nerfed the meta hard enough / put the egg somewhere else you can bet that this is going to become the next big point of contention.

[Cranberry.5849]

Seriously I rather pug doing raids than doing this Meta. Atleast the same 10 players will learn together as we fail and overcome the challenge. For this Meta, another fail attempt means another go with random players. Only thing we can do is to pray to get into an elite squad or something. Ridiculous...

[StarXII.9273]

I have to admit I actually disagree with the idea of nerfing the boss. I think a better solution is to allow people to instance with a squad instead of relying on open world pugs which are the initial problem with the crystal phase in the first place.