If you beat the Dragon's End meta for the Turtle mount - your headache isn't over just yet.

[Ruisen.9471]

3 hours ago, Ithlia.1830 said:

I turned 67 the day this expansion was released. Great birthday present. I've been playing online games apparently longer than you have been alive. I don't do raids or strike missions, not because I can't learn the mechanics. Its because of this type of attitude. 

Then you're barking up the wrong tree, I'm not the one telling people not to do it.

[Ruisen.9471]

4 hours ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

I just want to say, since seige turtle is a useful mount only as a team player, as a solo player its not much use. So it makes sense that u need to do party events (like strike or meta event) to unlock the turtle. The only issue here is the DE meta time taken and harder to complete.

I think you're confusing open world players and solo players.  Open world players aren't necessarily solo players.  

Edited March 8, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[rune.9572]

Oh boy, there we go, it's "nerf HoT" all over again

Complaining about content with no failure state other than "everyone died" really is the new low, huh? People can't even be bothered not to die to obvious attacks telegraphed with 5 seecond delay now. What's next, a thread calling for nerfs to the dodge & combo heart quest in Seitung?

Edited March 8, 2022 by rune.9572

[Qpla.4729]

2 hours ago, TexZero.7910 said:

The strike isn't raid content. It's a normal mode strike which has 0 timers in it and 0 instakill mechanics. With enough healing/support you can facetank almost everything thrown at you with no timer pressure. Sure your run might take upwards of 30 minutes doing so but it's safe and only takes learning the patterns to brute force it.

The strike isn't hard. The mechanics aren't hard. The hard part is finding 9 other people who don't despise you for not having 250 LI. That's why we're in a hurry. At least right now there's likeminded people in the LFG so you might get in a fun group.

Just a suggestion to anyone in this thread. Do the strike now before the LI gatekeeping takes over LFG.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

3 minutes ago, Qpla.4729 said:

The strike isn't hard. The mechanics aren't hard. The hard part is finding 9 other people who don't despise you for not having 250 LI. That's why we're in a hurry. At least right now there's likeminded people in the LFG so you might get in a fun group.

Just a suggestion to anyone in this thread. Do the strike now before the LI gatekeeping takes over LFG.

 

These are rare case scenario and people usually laugh at them.

 

But yeah, right now most people are only looking to get the turtle so they dont care about what you play as long as they end up finishing the strike mission. 

[Mister XY.9536]

On 3/6/2022 at 12:52 PM, Kelly.7019 said:

Why is raider content now casual pve'er content?

 

it's just disappointing for someone who never wanted raiding in the game and it wasn't the original direction of the game, now its being forced down our throats. It seems like the vocal minority is getting their way. I wish that was true in other aspects of this game. 😕

I guess its like suggesting everyone can decorate your guild halls when really that wasn't the case. Or showing us a new mount we can get when really not everyone will be able to complete the collection to get it.

 

 

Well I did raid quite a lot and I can say, it still sucks. Raiding is something you do with 10 people, everyone knowing their role.

This is for far more people including pugs on an open world map. Most raid builds are absolutely disgusting to play in open world while most open world builds are omega troll on raid bosses.
Example: Most open world builds are half DPS/ half survivability with a lot of people going toughness/vitality.
Which is basically a troll stat combo in raids. But how would you survive enemy after enemy after enemy in PvE without proper self peel? In Raids, you got designated healers for that after all.

So a Raid DPS with 0 self peel can quickly get burst down in PvE by some rando enemy. And an open world pug with half tank half dps build who doesn't know the mechanics at all will only scale it all up.

 

So how can this be solved? Pugs git gud, this even isn't as hard as it seems but probably just scaled up to the point the handful of good players can't solocarry.
Build switching. Get a raid build in reserve just for this fight. Works best with an organizing commander.

Organizing Commander with Ctrl V. A lot of Ctrl V. For the mechanics.

At the end, I assume it turns into tequatls difficulty wise. Everyone will know what to do when and it's super easy because the amount of afk people contributing nothing but scaling to the boss diminishes.

[Gibson.4036]

5 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

And you really have trouble understanding not everything in life is given the way you want it to be. You only have to play it once. This isnt the end of the world. 

 

You people are free to complain and cry that the world is unfair and everything, but in the end of the day, I and many other player had to work through all of this whether we like it or not and suceeded. We now have our turtle and I personnally keep participating in ED event because I find it fun and because I want more people to have their turtle. I will keep doing Kaineng event because it doesnt really look too hard and the reward is good. But if you, the people who want the turtle, refuses to make any effort, that is fine by me. You will be the one missing on the turtle, not me nor the people who keep trying. 

The phrase “you people” is always such a dead giveaway.

Again, you think there’s nothing between requiring a strike mission and  wanting it without “any effort.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma#:~:text=A false dilemma%2C also referred,but in a false premise.

 

[Deihnyx.6318]

I'm just going to put out there that for WvW players, it's an inconvenience to have to grind for their gear, for raid players having to go through story and grinds for their gear is an inconvenience too, etc.

The *vast* majority of the game is built for more casual players, and the rest of the crowd has to deal with the grindfest that comes with it. Before EoD there wasn't a single meta that still required people to jump on discord and collaborate. WvW was the next best thing, and it hasn't received love in a very, very long time.

 

And as much as I can understand how this is indeed an inconvenience for some, this was a great experience for others. Getting to meet new players over discord (and no, they weren't toxic, but instead would explain and even give some build advice) was great. The feeling when beating the meta was great. And it's especially important to meet new players after so much time has passed with nothing but casual content.

 

There wouldn't be so much push back if content for dedicated players was on par with casual, but it's not. We don't even know whether the casual crowd is that much bigger, none of us have the numbers and it's easy to self-validate your own bubble in forums where people come mostly when they have something negative to say.

[TexZero.7910]

7 hours ago, Qpla.4729 said:

The strike isn't hard. The mechanics aren't hard. The hard part is finding 9 other people who don't despise you for not having 250 LI. That's why we're in a hurry. At least right now there's likeminded people in the LFG so you might get in a fun group.

Just a suggestion to anyone in this thread. Do the strike now before the LI gatekeeping takes over LFG.

Unless i missed something there's no LI or other relevant gatekeeping tool to be linked here so that's just people being people. Don't join a group with high standards if you're not willing to live up to that bar ? That's just common courtesy to both parties involved and not an issue with the strike itself or it's difficulty.

[Peterson.5172]

(as someone who got the turtle after ~10 metas and 2hrs on the collection)

i dont know why people are so aggresively against other people getting rewards that are mostly solo experiences.

a turtle is hardly a prestige item, and it doesnt afffect the value of anything you own, why force them to do strikes? you don't lose/gain anything if they do a kaineng meta instead of strike for their turtles

[Deihnyx.6318]

21 minutes ago, Peterson.5172 said:

(as someone who got the turtle after ~10 metas and 2hrs on the collection)

i dont know why people are so aggresively against other people getting rewards that are mostly solo experiences.

a turtle is hardly a prestige item, and it doesnt afffect the value of anything you own, why force them to do strikes? you don't lose/gain anything if they do a kaineng meta instead of strike for their turtles

 

It's not us, It's Anet first and foremost.

As for why. I don't know, but after the backslash for the gryphon (too expensive), and the skyskale (too long/timegated) what's the last remaining gate?

And no gates at all isn't an option either. People then get it within a day and then complain that there's nothing else to do.

[Celsith.2753]

21 hours ago, radium.7350 said:

For me it is not about difficulty, it is about forcing me to do content i don't like to do in a game which i play for the very reason that instanced group content is optional and nothing important is locked behind it. It feels bad.

I am grown up and i don't need "encouragement" to do different game modes. I do everything i find fun. Reason why i don't do strikes or raids is because i don't want to, not because i would be so dim i haven't thought of doing them or that i would be out of courage to do them.

I got my turtle egg on friday afternoon and had my turtle collection done very late same night. Yes i did the strike. No, it didn't turn me curious about the strike content or in any way encouraged to do more of them. Quite opposite, it left me bitter about having to do that and very worried if this game will fling the same poo to me again when next mount or other item of open world player interest comes out.

One final thought to the end. I wonder why Anet is so keen to get more and more people into instanced content. Their golden egg is fun large scale open world content (including WvW here), they are the game that does it the best in the game industry. Why try so hard to pull people from open world to small instances? It seems like a bad idea to alienate your main audience in attempt to compete on game mode that so many mmorpgs offer and are more famous for while destroying the very thing which you do the best.

 

Just wanted to say, this a million times. I would be fine having hard solo instanced content and having to personally work for my reward. I just really do NOT want to do it with a bunch of other people. It's not the difficulty some of us are complaining about, it's the type of content.

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

 

As for why. I don't know, but after the backslash for the gryphon (too expensive), and the skyskale (too long/timegated) what's the last remaining gate?

Reasonably expensive and timegated?

For the record, I have no problem with the skyscale quest, and the expense makes a kind of sense for a hidden novelty mount like the gryphon.

For an expansion selling point though? Why'd there need to be much of a gate at all? Is anyone complaining that they were handed a fishing pole first thing upon arrival?

Was anyone put out that they got a raptor in the very first instance of PoF? Was anyone saying, "Hey, I wanted to feel like I really earned that thing!"? The springer, the skimmer, the jackal?

I expect outlook depends a lot on whether you see the turtle as something new to play the game with (like PoF mounts, the jade bot, fishing) or you see it as a reward for playing the game (like LW4 mounts, legendaries, infusions).

The advertising lead me to believe this was going to be one of those things we used to play EoD, not a reward after we've played EoD.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Deihnyx.6318]

8 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Reasonably expensive and timegated?

For the record, I have no problem with the skyscale quest, and the expense makes a kind of sense for a hidden novelty mount like the gryphon.

For an expansion selling point though? Why'd there need to be much of a gate at all? Is anyone complaining that they were handed a fishing pole first thing upon arrival?

Was anyone put out that they got a raptor in the very first instance of PoF? Was anyone saying, "Hey, I wanted to feel like I really earned that thing!"? The springer, the skimmer, the jackal?

I expect outlook depends a lot on whether you see the turtle as something new to play the game with (like PoF mounts, the jade bot, fishing) or you see it as a reward for playing the game (like LW4 mounts, legendaries, infusions).

The advertising lead me to believe this was going to be one of those things we used to play EoD, not a reward after we've played EoD.

 

Many people have the turtle not a week after the expansion came out, so "reasonable" is very relative. I'd say that it's plenty reasonable if you commit to it.

The fishing pole is the entry point to a lot of collections. The point is there, acquiring all the fishes. It doesn't make sense to gate the tool to get started with that.

The raptor was quickly available, but there was that gryphon that the end, that "stretching goal" for players to spend a bit more time to complete PoF if they so wished.

The advertising is odd, I'll give you that much, but I don't believe the amount of 'work' required to acquire it is that bad.

[Gibson.4036]

7 minutes ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

 

The advertising is odd, I'll give you that much, but I don't believe the amount of 'work' required to acquire it is that bad.

Sure. I was comparing "reasonable" to skyscale and gryphon. You had  asked after complaints about unreasonable time with skyscale (which I don't personally think is unreasonable) and unreasonable expense for grypon, what was left as a gate? My understanding was that you were implying challenging content like strikes was the only gate left.

I was just saying reasonable time and money was another alternative to "unreasonable" time and money.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Deihnyx.6318]

23 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Sure. I was comparing "reasonable" to skyscale and gryphon. You had  asked after complaints about unreasonable time with skyscale (which I don't personally think is unreasonable) and unreasonable expense for grypon, what was left as a gate? My understanding was that you were implying challenging content like strikes was the only gate left.

I was just saying reasonable time and money was another alternative to "unreasonable" time and money.

 

I agree, the Skyscale wasn't unreasonable, Neither was the gryphon. But the backlash was there. And fierce for the Skyscale.
So I was theorizing that maybe it could be a reason why Anet tried something else.
The problem is there also seems to be negative feelings no matter what they do, not specifically with the turtle. Looking at these forums honestly you'd think this community is treated like garbage by a company that doesn't care. But then you get in game and most people seem pretty ok with what is being done.

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

 

 But then you get in game and most people seem pretty ok with what is being done.

This is definitely true.

While I've been very vocal in my disappointment over what they did with the turtle, my son and are enjoying playing through EoD. My daughter quickly got over the fact that she probably won't get the turtle, though it and the jade bot were the two reasons she said she bought EoD, and is eager to keep playing with her new favorite, mechanist.

There's a lot of great things about this expansion. I never thought I'd actually enjoy fishing, but am weirdly captivated by it at the moment.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

To be honest, I don't think this one strike mission will be too much of a problem. But that's also because you don't need 10 people to clear it, 9 can work just as well (meaning somebody getting carried). It could always be worse, you could have to do the Harvest Temple Strike... *PTSD intensifies*

[Deihnyx.6318]

3 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

To be honest, I don't think this one strike mission will be too much of a problem. But that's also because you don't need 10 people to clear it, 9 can work just as well (meaning somebody getting carried). It could always be worse, you could have to do the Harvest Temple Strike... *PTSD intensifies*

This strike has no timer, therefore it doesn't matter how meta your builds are, as long as you bring sustain. That's why it's not comparable to raids.
The mechanics are also very forgiving, I've done it with a "yolo" group twice, and had half the team almost constantly downed and we still got it.
The CM scares me though 😄

[Labjax.2465]

4 hours ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

 

I agree, the Skyscale wasn't unreasonable, Neither was the gryphon. But the backlash was there. And fierce for the Skyscale.
So I was theorizing that maybe it could be a reason why Anet tried something else.
The problem is there also seems to be negative feelings no matter what they do, not specifically with the turtle. Looking at these forums honestly you'd think this community is treated like garbage by a company that doesn't care. But then you get in game and most people seem pretty ok with what is being done.

You just listed a consistent theme of people being annoyed with requirements that are too much and then you say there are "negative feelings no matter what they do" as if there is no winning for them, when the answer to that theme of frustration is obvious: chill a little bit on the absurd requirements for desirable items. Has anyone ever said "the raptor mount was too easy to obtain"? Although it's true you can't please everyone all the time, it helps to be consistent in who your main target demographic is and Anet can't ever seem to make up their minds about who this game is for. They seem to have this repeating problem of doing stuff that frustrates people who are loyal to them, who are presumably a part of their target demographic, and saying it's a design vision they want to keep.

As to most people seeming ok with what is being done in-game, well yeah, they're busy playing, they're not gonna tend to spend their limited time in-game stopping to type complaints in chat. But if you ask questions and get opinions, I guarantee you, you'd find some dissatisfaction. Bring up how confusing tangled depths is anytime you're in that map during regular hours and watch how fast a dead map chat gets some chatting in agreement.

I'm not saying the game is terrible or all bad, but this narrative spinning you're doing is weird. "You can't please everyone" and "some people are happy" isn't an excuse to make the same mistakes over and over. Game design is not rocket science. You can crash a hundred rockets and you still get players telling other players to be happy it got off the ground at all.

[Notaheal.9841]

You forgot to point out how they add insult to injury by making the person you're supposed to bring the egg to kind of tucked away (She's hiding in a pair of bushes by the way, typically surrounded by players).

 

Just imagine being fresh off the headrush that is the jade sea torture and then having to run around arborstone like an idiot trying to find the person you're supposed to give it to. It's like this whole thing was designed by let's Game It Out.

[Notaheal.9841]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:19 PM, Kitta.3657 said:

Earn your reward for once.

If I buy something because that thing appealed to me in the marketing, I'd like it to be available to me or not too much of a hassle to get. This sort of stuff is fine for skins and whatnot but not something that they put front and center.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Don't worry. It doesn't look like I'm making it past the meta anyway.

[Notaheal.9841]

4 hours ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

 

I agree, the Skyscale wasn't unreasonable, Neither was the gryphon. But the backlash was there. And fierce for the Skyscale.
So I was theorizing that maybe it could be a reason why Anet tried something else.
The problem is there also seems to be negative feelings no matter what they do, not specifically with the turtle. Looking at these forums honestly you'd think this community is treated like garbage by a company that doesn't care. But then you get in game and most people seem pretty ok with what is being done.

From what I remember in my circles, issue with the griffon was that it was expensive as hell (which it is) and the skyscale that a lot of the steps to progress were timegated which is just obnoxious. I can get that the griffon, being the fastest mount is reserved as some sort of luxury item that needs to be grinded for. Timegating steps though doesn't do anything apart from just making everything far mor frustrating.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

15 hours ago, Qpla.4729 said:

The strike isn't hard. The mechanics aren't hard. The hard part is finding 9 other people who don't despise you for not having 250 LI. That's why we're in a hurry. At least right now there's likeminded people in the LFG so you might get in a fun group.

Just a suggestion to anyone in this thread. Do the strike now before the LI gatekeeping takes over LFG.

Just put "Kaineng strike" in LFG.  It's super easy to get a group together.