If you beat the Dragon's End meta for the Turtle mount - your headache isn't over just yet.

[Kodokuna Akuma.9570]

On 3/7/2022 at 3:34 PM, castlemanic.3198 said:

why is playing an optimized build required for open world content? open world content that does not require optimized builds.

If you dont want to use optimal builds then thats on you but you got to accept that if you want to run around with garbage doing garbage that the game not hand you the win.
You dont NEED it for most open world content, but it would make the average casual players life alot easier if they spent 5 mins looking up and equiping one. Hell if they spent a good 30 mins just understanding the hell their class did they would be all the better for it and in theory might enjoy it more.

[Eros.6801]

So i have a few thoughts on my mind

 I got my turtle today, mainly because my friend keeps nagging me saying that she want me to carry her around the world on the turtle and part of me want to make her happy so i went and try hard. Did it on my 17th run, now i can have fun with my friend but then i realized, when i'm alone what is the purpose of having the turtle beside carrying ppl around ? Did i went through all that hard work just for this "Toy" ? I don't even get to shoot the cannons. There are some just stay on their turtle all time and spam #1 during metas, i get that ppl want to show their hard work to others but it is not helping like at all, why would you do that ? If i can mount the turtle during combat with a cooldown on mount up button then this could be considered useful in some ways, other than that its just a meme mount to me at least.

Anet you said if this keeps on failing you will give us an alternative way to get the turtle but that brings me another question what is the purpose of doing this meta if that happen ? Correct me if i'm wrong because except from one single win i failed like 16 times, a few collections and some mats for legendaries ?. Yeah i can live without it, the puny gold as reward isn't worth mentioning for all that works. So in the end i made up my mind, i will never coming back to this meta ever again and no reason to.

This should be the grand final for our 10 years of the story, if we elmiminate all the annoying stuffs happen during the meta then this would be fantastic experience. If you can't solve the problems then this grand final is a massive failure, the biggest in 10 years.

[Eulefant.9624]

Good thing to read this.

I bought pre on all my 3 accounts.

And now I see I will not get turtle on them ( have griffin/skyscale on all 3 )

 

Not a big deal. Imagine 14 AFK turtles in DR bank area.

 

And its multiplayer yet I have not grown an extra set of hands. ( I am one of those extremely rare solo players )

 

But in the end when I do the review of expansion:

 

1) No turtle

2) Jade bot only in rare instances, and on one character only ( I run 71+35+15 ) I know I can re-equip, but it feels like back to 2013 in QoL

3) the extra hub.. oh well, add some lighting 🙂  I will stick to DR

4) fishing: decent, but guess what .. "have to have lure" on that silly alt, back to 2013

 

so getting no turtle will see me back doing my 57th world complete in Tyria ( which riding a turtle will take me 9 years .. back to 2013 )

 

thats my 5 cents

[Pyriel.4370]

The meta and turtle collection is a concern to me too. It was pretty much made a main feature of this expansion. E.g. they didn’t go into strikes the same way with the vids and it’s on the box art / ad art. No other mount required this much to get it and again, this was a main feature. On the web page it’s even before fishing and jade bots as a main feature.

Also adding, it’s on the main website and on a YouTube vid for prepurchasing as well as being used in maps prior to the end map. 
 

Finally, what’s even the point of it? No real content where you need it. Just seems poor design and misleading advertising.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Pyriel.4370
Addition

[yoni.7015]

5 minutes ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

No other mount required this much to get it and again, this was a main feature. On the web page it’s even before fishing and jade bots as a main feature.

I can only speak for myself but it took longer to get griffon and skyscale. Besides the RNG at the meta there is nothing difficult you have to do to get the turtle. It’s not even very expensive to get. 

[Pyriel.4370]

12 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I can only speak for myself but it took longer to get griffon and skyscale. Besides the RNG at the meta there is nothing difficult you have to do to get the turtle. It’s not even very expensive to get. 

Look at the forums about the meta, it isn’t just rng. Griffon and skyscale didnt have a wall like that, especially when the other metas also have to be done and they’re pretty intense timer wise too. 

The skyscale also got much easier once you had the return achieves. 

No other xpac main feature has been so walled off. You know how you got the other featured pof mounts? (Griffon was a secret mount) you played the story through and there were areas where you needed specific mounts. 
 

I’d be more open to the challenge had it not been a main advertised feature. The skyscale and griffon were never advertised to the same level. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Pyriel.4370

[Gibson.4036]

9 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I can only speak for myself but it took longer to get griffon and skyscale. Besides the RNG at the meta there is nothing difficult you have to do to get the turtle. It’s not even very expensive to get. 

I know people are saying that the strike mission isn't that hard.

But look how easy it is to get a GoB and a portion of the player base would be freaking out right now if one was required to unlock the turtle. Or if it required a certain number of shards of glory.

Strike missions are content that a limited portion of the player base engages in, and should be required for an expansion defining selling point.

2 minutes ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

Look at the forums about the meta, it isn’t just rng. Griffon and skyscale didnt have a wall like that, especially when the other metas also have to be done and they’re pretty intense timer wise too. 

 

The skyscale also got much easier once you had the return achieves. 
 

No other xpac main feature has been so walled off. You know how you got the other featured pof mounts? (Griffon was a secret) you played the story through and there were areas where you needed specific mounts. 

Just adding to this that skyscale was part of a LW season as well, not an expansion selling point.

[Ashantara.8731]

17 hours ago, Eros.6801 said:

[...] now i can have fun with my friend but then i realized, when i'm alone what is the purpose of having the turtle beside carrying ppl around ? Did i went through all that hard work just for this "Toy" ? I don't even get to shoot the cannons. There are some just stay on their turtle all time and spam #1 during metas, i get that ppl want to show their hard work to others but it is not helping like at all, why would you do that ? If i can mount the turtle during combat with a cooldown on mount up button then this could be considered useful in some ways, other than that its just a meme mount to me at least. [...]

The only use so far I found was the breaking of the shields during the DE meta pre-events, and even then I have to explicitly ask people in say chat for someone to hop on and fire the cannon. It's pretty unsatisfying.

I am not majorly disappointed, as the turtle wasn't of interest to me from the start (i.e., pre-release), but I wonder as well whether the hype will die down soon. It was fun to get, but using it isn't much fun at all (which I already had expected, so...).

Edited March 10, 2022 by Ashantara.8731
typo

[DoctorOverlord.8620]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:55 AM, Gibson.4036 said:

“As easy as getting the roller beetle…”

Yeah I remember that quote too. 

[FortyTwo.8697]

44 minutes ago, DoctorOverlord.8620 said:

Yeah I remember that quote too. 

Anet straight up lied about the turtle aquisition in the pre-launch streams.

[Amhiel.6195]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:52 AM, Kelly.7019 said:

Why is raider content now casual pve'er content?

 

Turtle mount collection - What... Not everyone is going to be able to complete this collection i'm sure you know.

As if the headache of Dragon's End Meta wasn't enough raider content for non raiders, you still have to do a hardmode strike mission in New Kaineng City.

Aren't strike missions intro to raiding anyways? but this difficulty level isn't an intro. Get ready to fail multiple times again.

It's easier then the Dragon's End Meta but your casual pve'ers are going to have nightmares from this collection.

Maybe not for people who raid and do this all the time but your hardcore casual will still need an organized group, if you're a causal pve'er, heh good luck!

 

it's just disappointing for someone who never wanted raiding in the game and it wasn't the original direction of the game, now its being forced down our throats. It seems like the VOCAL MINORITY is getting their way. I wish that was true in other aspects of this game. 😕

I guess its like suggesting everyone can decorate your guild halls when really that wasn't the case. Or showing us a new mount we can get when really not everyone will be able to complete the collection to get it.

 

Yes its early in the xpac and yes this is a grind as intended.  The question really becomes - Is this the direction the player base wants or is this the direction the company is going, to have a playerbase that's more suited to hardmode?- But why for a causal pver'er game? Feels like someone is prepping players for a possible next step- w/e that might be.

I believe they are called a Fringe Minority. lol

[difens.1326]

Even if I manage to get the egg, I'll wait until they drop strike mission requirement from the collection. My main is a warrior unfortunately and I won't be accepted in groups without banners. I refuse playing that build. I created a warrior to deal damage, not to be forced to place god kitten flags on the battlefield.

[Mungrul.9358]

On 3/6/2022 at 11:52 AM, Kelly.7019 said:

It seems like the vocal minority is getting their way.

And this is the problem with any MMO / Game-as-a-Service. Raiders are always the vocal minority, who usually end up getting their way.

I've seen percentage figures for raiders in most MMO populations, and at the most, it's usually around 10% of the active player base that raid. In most MMOs, it's significantly lower.

The problem is that comparatively, it's easier content to make than a convincing and engaging open world area, and there's a lot of hype focussing on the raiding community as competitive PvE, with stuff like rewarding first clears.

 

The other thing that really ticks me off about this disease that infects all MMOs / GaaS is that it isn't really massively multiplayer.

It's instanced, small-to-medium group content. And yet so many players think an MMO isn't an MMO if it doesn't have instanced content.

GW2 has a sweet spot, where it understands that open-world bosses and meta-events can give a lot of the feel of challenging co-operative content while maximising player participation. While the later Icebrood Saga cops a lot of Flak, earlier parts of it are some of the best MMO content I've played, such as Drakkar and Drizzlewood Coast.

Unfortunately, I suspect that a lot of the team who understood this have been replaced by veterans from other MMO studios, who simply don't have the imagination to think outside of the old model's box.

 

But this rot started to spread early on in GW2's life, when they bowed to pressure from PvE elitists from other games by introducing Ascended stat gear. All they needed to do was make Ascended gear have the same max stats, but add infusion slots to it through some Ascension process (like the Doppelganger fight in GW1). But nope, they had to ruin their balance and introduce a power hike (albeit a small one compared to other MMOS).

This is why a lot of Core Tyria offers no challenge to veteran players. It was all designed around Exotic stats being the highest in the game, and the introduction of Ascended stats completely broke that.

 

Anyway, rant over. Suffice to say, EoD seems to have been developed by MMO traditionalists, and not people who understand Guild Wars.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Mungrul.9358
Formatting / Typos

[The Boz.2038]

6 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Raiders are always the vocal minority, who usually end up getting their way.

They sure got their way with that brand new raid that got released with EoD...

[Mungrul.9358]

 

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

They sure got their way with that brand new raid that got released with EoD...

 

Well if ANet hadn't shed so many employees over the past couple of years, I'm sure it would have had a raid on release. I still suspect that the long term intention is to introduce a new raid.

Instead, and to tide over those who crave challenging instanced content, we get Strikes, which to all intents and purposes are encounters extracted from raids.

 

Personally, I would have preferred more Fractals.

In fact, in all scenarios where ANet have introduced instanced content subsequent to Fractals, I've found it very hard to understand why they didn't just expand Fractals instead.

[FortyTwo.8697]

28 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

And this is the problem with any MMO / Game-as-a-Service. Raiders are always the vocal minority, who usually end up getting their way.

I've seen percentage figures for raiders in most MMO populations, and at the most, it's usually around 10% of the active player base that raid. In most MMOs, it's significantly lower.

The problem is that comparatively, it's easier content to make than a convincing and engaging open world area, and there's a lot of hype focussing on the raiding community as competitive PvE, with stuff like rewarding first clears.

 

The other thing that really ticks me off about this disease that infects all MMOs / GaaS is that it isn't really massively multiplayer.

It's instanced, small-to-medium group content. And yet so many players think an MMO isn't an MMO if it doesn't have instanced content.

GW2 has a sweet spot, where it understands that open-world bosses and meta-events can give a lot of the feel of challenging co-operative content while maximising player participation. While the later Icebrood Saga cops a lot of Flak, earlier parts of it are some of the best MMO content I've played, such as Drakkar and Drizzlewood Coast.

Unfortunately, I suspect that a lot of the team who understood this have been replaced by veterans from other MMO studios, who simply don't have the imagination to think outside of the old model's box.

 

But this rot started to spread early on in GW2's life, when they bowed to pressure from PvE elitists from other games by introducing Ascended stat gear. All they needed to do was make Ascended gear have the same max stats, but add infusion slots to it through some Ascension process (like the Doppelganger fight in GW1). But nope, they had to ruin their balance and introduce a power hike (albeit a small one compared to other MMOS).

This is why a lot of Core Tyria offers no challenge to veteran players. It was all designed around Exotic stats being the highest in the game, and the introduction of Ascended stats completely broke that.

 

Anyway, rant over. Suffice to say, EoD seems to have been developed by MMO traditionalists, and not people who understand Guild Wars.

And now the PvE players got an open world raid that no one else wanted, and they actively gatekeep it from the open world players. Imagine if ArenaNet would have made the normal open world content that most people want, and instead took all the time and effort they put into Dragon's End, and just put it into making a new instanced raid for the PvE players, which they currently do not have. That would have prevented this whole mess we have now.

Meanwhile PvP players just want a new map. That's all we want. And we're never getting it. We're getting completely ignored.

[Taclism.2406]

Lol "raiders got their way". No new raid and they gave up on that notion until further notice, the new strikes are somewhat harder than Eye of the north's  but not nearly as hard as raids, but sure ...
Meta isnt hard either really now its fixed, it only requires 4 things : Reading commander instructions, CCs (dont be a slacker and get EMPs / grind drizzle if needs to be), being able to dodge out / jump over aoes, and be there early enough to be in a squad that actually tries, with everyone maxed on participation buff.

That last point may sounds excessive but is for a simple reason : average dps needs to be at 6-8k. If your squad isnt full (and so is your instance map) by 20-30min after reset ; plebs with no understanding of DPS rotations, and 0 buff will tag along and make the squad average dps needed way higher because of the boss scaling.
It isnt difficulty, nor 'fun for raiders'. It's trying over and over to be in one of the few good instances, to overcome the likeliness to be with "1 pressers" / people saying 1h30 is too much commitment. 
 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[FortyTwo.8697]

10 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Lol "raiders got their way". No new raid and they gave up on that notion until further notice, the new strikes are somewhat harder than Eye of the north's  but not nearly as hard as raids, but sure ...
Meta isnt hard either really now its fixed, it only requires 4 things : Reading commander instructions, CCs (dont be a slacker and get EMPs / grind drizzle if needs to be), being able to dodge out / jump over aoes, and be there early enough to be in a squad that actually tries, with everyone maxed on participation buff.

That last point may sounds excessive but is for a simple reason : average dps needs to be at 6-8k. If your squad isnt full (and so is your instance map) by 20-30min after reset ; plebs with no understanding of DPS rotations, and 0 buff will tag along and make the squad average dps needed way higher because of the boss scaling.
It isnt difficulty, nor 'fun for raiders'. It's trying over and over to be in one of the few good instances, to overcome the likeliness to be with "1 pressers" / people saying 1h30 is too much commitment. 

just checking how much some of you post here, you might have the turtle already if you used your time complaining to train lol
 

Yeah so no one got what they wanted and everyone is unhappy about this. If ArenaNet had just taken all this effort they put into the Dragon's End meta, used it to make an actuall raid version of it instead, and made Dragon's End into a normal casual open world event, then everyone would have gotten what they wanted, and everyone would have been happy.

[Tails.9372]

53 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

now its fixed

No it's not, not even close. Given their stated goals of it having to be "doable by the average player" and it "being farmed as hard as the HoT metas" they would have to completely nerf it into the ground and with that I don't just mean one or two things but the whole shabang. Alternatively they could also heavily buff low intencity builds (especially passive and additional sustain effects) but they screwed that one up right with the launch of the expansion so I don't see that happening either.

53 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

average dps needs to be at 6-8k

Not happening, this would require the people who even remotely know what they are doing to be somewhere between 13750 and 47500 dps depending on how many of the "average causal players" are present which for OW events usually ranges between 60-90%.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Taclism.2406]

16 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Not happening, this would require the people who know what they are doing to somewhere between 13750 and 47500 dps depending on how many of the "average causal players" are present which for OW events usually ranges between 60-90%.

I mean 6-8k on a single target, and unbuffed/ selfbuffed only , which "only" implies knowing what are your main damage dealing tools, and should already increase a lot provided commander splits buff correctly. DPS spikes from aoes on adds are meaningless, the only add worth focusing are the big sacks on 4 legs

I dont doubt meta's success rate will skyrocket after the turtle egg outrage evolves into minister li outrage instead, especially if they also increases the odds on good rewards. I'm at 9 wins here and nothing worth more than 1 gold and a half, so I'll only agree rn its too much effort for what's its worth

Edited March 10, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Tails.9372]

2 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

I mean 6-8k on a single target

Yes and for that to be "the average" means that the 10-40% have to make up for the slack of the 60-90% and this, like I said, would require them to do between 13750 and 47500 single target dps which just isn't happening.

[Gibson.4036]

@Rubi Bayer.8493and @Josh Davis.7865, thanks for the communication, tweaks to the DE meta, and the workaround for the turtle regarding the meta.

Can we get an official statement on whether an alternative to the strike mission for the turtle collection is even an option?

While I expect I could probably personally find a party and get through it, it's unlikely my 13 year old daughter, who bought EoD because of "the jade bot and the turtle" will be welcome in a group attempting it. It makes little sense to gate an open world novelty mount behind challenging instanced content.

If I'd known up front that the turtle was going to be locked behind content significantly more challenging than the roller beetle was, I would have at least made sure she knew before spending her own money on End of Dragons. The turtle preview lead me to believe otherwise.

I expect, by this thread and my 10 years of experience with this community, that there are plenty of other players who are as or more blocked from the turtle by this strike mission than they were by the DE meta.

Is this a discussion you are willing to have internally to see if an alternative option could be implemented?

[eldrin.6471]

Anyone who cant/wont do strike missions and bought this expansion for the siege turtle was scammed by anet.

They probably intend for some of us to buy gems convert to gold and buy a run

through the strike mission. Thats what il need do as im way to old to be doing strike missions.

kitten move anet. But its what i have come to expect from these money grabbers.   

Edited March 10, 2022 by eldrin.6471
context

[Necrosian.1359]

8 hours ago, difens.1326 said:

Even if I manage to get the egg, I'll wait until they drop strike mission requirement from the collection. My main is a warrior unfortunately and I won't be accepted in groups without banners. I refuse playing that build. I created a warrior to deal damage, not to be forced to place god kitten flags on the battlefield.

 

1 hour ago, eldrin.6471 said:

Anyone who cant/wont do strike missions and bought this expansion for the siege turtle was scammed by anet.

They probably intend for some of us to buy gems convert to gold and buy a run

through the strike mission. Thats what il need do as im way to old to be doing strike missions.

kitten move anet. But its what i have come to expect from these money grabbers.   

 

People, only tumor of turtle collection currently is meta. Everything else is easyish. Strike actually has boss mechanics, not some RNG cow poop. You can learn those, just make chill "Turtle strike everyone welcome".

Edited March 10, 2022 by Necrosian.1359

[Zekent.3652]

Just make the strike optional and unlock this part with 200 more contracts, it's easy, don't force casuals to do this part.