The real core problem of the Dragon's End meta is all about DPS

[Wintermute.5408]

People in open world don't do damage. They never did. Old devs (you know, the ones who had a clue) themselves said that difference between casual and optimized player can reach magnitude of 10. That's difference of somebody dealing 30k DPS (which for purposes of instanced content is low end) and 3k. I can just assume those devs got fired and didn't come back.

Open world players wear terrible gear - in our raid training guild we had newbies show up in mix of green and blue. This issue isn't helped at all by the game itself giving you absolute garbage in various boxes, pretending that it's "class optimal". My friend, upon boosting his guardian, got toughness+vitality exotics, and was seriously wondering why is guardian's damage so low before I explained things. Harbinger's pistols don't allow viper stats selection. Etc etc etc.

Open world players run terrible builds. I myself cheesed OG HoT content with blood+death magic minion necro, who was absolutely immortal. But it deals no damage. When a guy like that showed up in a T4 fractal, it was miserable for the rest of us. So many things deal no damage. So many skills, weapons, traits and traitlines are absolutely worthless for it. Yet people run them, because they find them fun, or because they serve some niche purposes in a casual content. It's asinine to expect those people to suddenly swap to big kitten damage setup on a single map in the whole game which has no signs or warnings it's actually required.

And above all - developers should stop thinking they are in any position to dictate playerbase on mass how to play the game. Which, between blanket nerfs to personal survivability, that godforsaken turtle leading into strikes, and directly stated intent to lead people towards strikes, raids and legendaries, is exactly what this new crew tries to do.

The game is 10 years old by now. You can bet your kitten that in those 10 years playerbase got completely cemented in what kind of content they want and don't want to run. Those who wanted to do fractals are running them. Same for raids, even if entry barrier is entirely too high. And people who don't want to engage in content requiring damage optimization, clearly aren't going to do so now just because devs decided to strongarm them. It's one thing to lead people towards trying new stuff - I actually think new strikes do amazing job of that on their own.

It's completely different when you lock that kitten turtle behind them, and literally gank people with insane difficulty spike on the last map. When people who have been avoiding that kind of content for 10 years are suddenly forced into it - well, we get what we get. Strikes are already becoming horrible to run, because of "I'm just here for my turtle" people. They don't want to be there. Hardcore crowd doesn't want them to be there. I can't blame any of the parties - I'm just sitting there unable to clear Harvest temple, because groups disband upon the slightest problem. End result will be strikes and DE dying, because the experience is horrible for both parties, and content becomes literally impossible to finish.

It's been 10 years of casual open world maps, with casuals being left to their own devices, and decade of the game development actively encouraging that way of things with number of deeply terrible design choices. Yes, like those "class gear" boxes. That's without even touching on the 180 turn of the very core philosophy of the game made on HoT release, and all the self-contradictions remaining unfixed since then. You don't suddenly waltz in saying "hey guys, we are hardcore now", and expect people to follow. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Wintermute.5408

[ugrakarma.9416]

27 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

And above all - developers should stop thinking they are in any position to dictate playerbase on mass how to play the game. Which, between blanket nerfs to personal survivability, that godforsaken turtle leading into strikes, and directly stated intent to lead people towards strikes, raids and legendaries, is exactly what this new crew tries to do.

Yeah, is what i call 'problems start with "fix the player"'.. they should fix the game, not the player.

these guys need a reality check, they think ppl will love the experience and then increase raid/strikes population on next months?

i remember of migraine achievment, i did it on a distante past. its 2 or 3 years, perhaps 4 since it..i have 0 return to it.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Scolix.4879]

43 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

People in open world don't do damage. They never did. Old devs (you know, the ones who had a clue) themselves said that difference between casual and optimized player can reach magnitude of 10. That's difference of somebody dealing 30k DPS (which for purposes of instanced content is low end) and 3k. I can just assume those devs got fired and didn't come back.

Open world players wear terrible gear - in our raid training guild we had newbies show up in mix of green and blue. This issue isn't helped at all by the game itself giving you absolute garbage in various boxes, pretending that it's "class optimal". My friend, upon boosting his guardian, got toughness+vitality exotics, and was seriously wondering why is guardian's damage so low before I explained things. Harbinger's pistols don't allow viper stats selection. Etc etc etc.

Open world players run terrible builds. I myself cheesed OG HoT content with blood+death magic minion necro, who was absolutely immortal. But it deals no damage. When a guy like that showed up in a T4 fractal, it was miserable for the rest of us. So many things deal no damage. So many skills, weapons, traits and traitlines are absolutely worthless for it. Yet people run them, because they find them fun, or because they serve some niche purposes in a casual content. It's asinine to expect those people to suddenly swap to big kitten damage setup on a single map in the whole game which has no signs or warnings it's actually required.

And above all - developers should stop thinking they are in any position to dictate playerbase on mass how to play the game. Which, between blanket nerfs to personal survivability, that godforsaken turtle leading into strikes, and directly stated intent to lead people towards strikes, raids and legendaries, is exactly what this new crew tries to do.

The game is 10 years old by now. You can bet your kitten that in those 10 years playerbase got completely cemented in what kind of content they want and don't want to run. Those who wanted to do fractals are running them. Same for raids, even if entry barrier is entirely too high. And people who don't want to engage in content requiring damage optimization, clearly aren't going to do so now just because devs decided to strongarm them. It's one thing to lead people towards trying new stuff - I actually think new strikes do amazing job of that on their own.

It's completely different when you lock that kitten turtle behind them, and literally gank people with insane difficulty spike on the last map. When people who have been avoiding that kind of content for 10 years are suddenly forced into it - well, we get what we get. Strikes are already becoming horrible to run, because of "I'm just here for my turtle" people. They don't want to be there. Hardcore crowd doesn't want them to be there. I can't blame any of the parties - I'm just sitting there unable to clear Harvest temple, because groups disband upon the slightest problem. End result will be strikes and DE dying, because the experience is horrible for both parties, and content becomes literally impossible to finish.

It's been 10 years of casual open world maps, with casuals being left to their own devices, and decade of the game development actively encouraging that way of things with number of deeply terrible design choices. Yes, like those "class gear" boxes. That's without even touching on the 180 turn of the very core philosophy of the game made on HoT release, and all the self-contradictions remaining unfixed since then. You don't suddenly waltz in saying "hey guys, we are hardcore now", and expect people to follow. 

I think the problem could be simply fixed by giving two turtles one from the difficult event and one from easier way and make them look different or have slightly different abilities because the current way only makes everybody sour like you said HC people hate i am here just for the turtle and open world crowd are either not interest in learning or do not care at all about it.

I already accepted that i won't get the mount my self as i have no more patience or interest on the event let alone that i would then have to go and do strike missions when i have barely done any instance type content for over a decade.

 

[blp.3489]

I realize it is very anecdotal, but on four of the five failed runs I did most of the people largely had the mechanics mostly down, they just ran out of time.  On the other run there were masses of downed players on multiple occasions.  So I'm sticking to my analysis that high DPS is essential, and that the design of the event doesn't take into account the wide variance of DPS between "casual" and "hardcore" players and that there therefor is no way to make it so that low DPS and high DPS players can play together and both be happy, hence all the raging from both sides.

If you want an event that can mix low and high DPS players you need to have roles for both, for example have a mechanic where, for example, low DPS characters could be killing the mobs in the middle which would generate some benefit to the group.  For example killing some number of mob creatures causes a vulnerability phase on Soo Won.  There are a lot of open world events where the boss is invulnerable until you kill the mobs so casual players like me could handle that.  Or you cut down on the invulnerable states and side switching based on low DPS activities in the center.  Or you put mobs in the center that are easy to kill but slow down the people moving from side to side if you just leave them.

As others have said, the other key is to provide a better reward structure such as bronze, silver, gold depending on time to finish.

One of the core values in GW2, in my opinion anyway, is the idea that, at least in most open world content, you don't suffer from other players getting involved.  If you are fighting some creature and someone else joins in it doesn't result in reduced loot for you.  The DE meta is the exact opposite, at least for more capable players, in that having a bunch of low DPS casual players involved in the meta almost ensures that it will fail and that you will get ZERO rewards.  The event, by design, pits the interests of high DPS players against the interest of low DPS players, and the result has been entirely predictable conflict between player groups.

[Asum.4960]

4 hours ago, Scolix.4879 said:

But you have to understand that basic open world Joe will never ever get that 50k+ dps. You should step off from your ivory dps tower and go look in hot/pof/eod open world and see how lot of people die from simple world mobs and then you might understand that even that 7k is actually a lot to ask from basic open world player.

Most people will never use dps meters never go 3th party sites and read what kind of talents to use or gear let alone rotations its the same stuff on every mmo i have ever played most people just try to play the game and i think they do not even actually realize if they do something "wrong" or their dps/tanking/healing/support is not even close up to par.

I think everyone understands that, and no one expects that, including Anet, setting it at around a 7k DPS per player - so that they don't have to. 

But what it means that ~30k DPS at this boss is easily achievable by some players is that it eases the pressure for everybody else. 

 

Whether you got 50 players each doing 7k DPS, or 10 Players doing 30k DPS and 40 players 1.5k DPS, it both hits that group goal - and that's how pretty much every single meta in GW2 works, with 2-10 players generally doing 60-90% of the damage of the whole zerg (if you don't want to believe that, anyone is free to download a DPS meter and join any OW meta squad to see for themselves) - not just DE.

Meta's fail when those few key players are missing, and that's a problem that is never going to get fixed (or rather, lessened) until Anet stops being too afraid to slightly push the wider playerbase here and there to strive to improve to get something they want, in the end bettering their own experience and that of anyone who happens to be around them. 

 

How long do we want GW2 to be in a state where other players joining events is often actively a detriment (at least to decently and well performing players) because they scale up boss HP more than they will ever contribute via DPS or support? 

I've seen plenty group events in the game which I handily solo'ed multiple times before, time out and fail with more and more players joining, because I simply couldn't keep up with the scaling alone - which tbh is kind of a depressing experience to have again and again. 

This is not an DE or EoD Problem, this has been happening since years.

A core philosophy of GW2 is that it's always supposed to be a good thing, or at least never a detriment, to encounter other players (something reflected in gathering mechanics, exp sharing mechanics, etc.), but the performance gap between players has gotten so large that this hasn't been the case for many players in years. 

If you never have to try, you likely can't do.

 

So I suppose the question is: Is it fair of Anet to ask for a with minimum effort easily achievable amount of DPS (well below even having to think about rotations and the like, just basic ability, trait and gear interactions/synergies) at the end of the third expansion of max level content, culminating in an epic fight closing off the events of 10 years of story? 

 

I'm not going to say everyone who says no to that question is wrong, but I personally believe, and understand everybody else who says, yes.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Scolix.4879]

5 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

This is not an DE or EoD Problem, this has been happening since years.

It's not just GW2 problem it's the problem of every mmo. 

Basic player will never go to 3th party sites to learn stuff most people only want to play the game hell I only recently looked what the break bar even means because before this expansion I never even needed that information at all and I have played since the beginning. 

The "casual" vs "hardcore" will never be solved ever when other side doesn't want to learn or do not even know they do not do even 10% of dps that experienced people do and other side hates these "lazy, unskilled" players ruining their game by wanting nerfs or ruining meta events. 

It was really stupid to even think it would work when there is like 15+ years of data from games like wow showing its a cluster fudge trying to mix these groups. 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

2 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

 'problems start with "fix the player"'

If I had a copper for every elitist who used this as their argument as to why DE is apparently "good design", I'd have a reasonable amount of pocket change. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[Asum.4960]

31 minutes ago, Scolix.4879 said:

It's not just GW2 problem it's the problem of every mmo. 

Basic player will never go to 3th party sites to learn stuff most people only want to play the game hell I only recently looked what the break bar even means because before this expansion I never even needed that information at all and I have played since the beginning. 

It's a spreading game design/tuning problem, which started with companies trying to more and more appeal to the lowest common denominator to maximise their audience and henceforth profits (following the success of the mobile market). The problem with trying to do that endlessly is that you end up with an audience that doesn't nor is willing to even understand let alone apply the core mechanics of your game, until eventually you just can't use your game's mechanics anymore without causing an outrage about people "being forced" to play it. 

It becomes absurd (which may work in favour in the mobile market, where pay to win to skip frustration is common, but not in "core" gaming, where it just leads to splitting and clashing audiences).

 

As you just said yourself, you never knew how to do breakbars, because the game never asked you to know.  

That's how we get 500 page complain threads screaming for Eater of Souls nerfs with PoF because it's "impossible", a boss that falls over if you just break it's breakbar. 

The solution to that is not to nerf it and not use the breakbar mechanic anymore, it's to ask your players more frequently to know and apply it -  so they learn and then it doesn't become an issue anymore, without the game losing it's complexity and appeal.

 

GW2 needs better ingame tutorialization, and then actually ask that knowledge and understanding of it's players. 

If player DPS is never tested, it will (for the large majority of players) never improve - which then means Anet can't use it as mechanic anymore.

This situation is not a failure or at fault of those underperforming players, but of the game.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, Asum.4960 said:

It's a spreading game design/tuning problem, which started with companies trying to more and more appeal to the lowest common denominator to maximise their audience and henceforth profits (following the success of the mobile market). The problem with trying to do that endlessly is that you end up with an audience that doesn't nor is willing to even understand let alone apply the core mechanics of your game, until eventually you just can't use your game's mechanics anymore without causing an outrage about people "being forced" to play it. 

It becomes absurd (which may work in favour in the mobile market, where pay to win to skip frustration is common, but not in "core" gaming, where it just leads to splitting and clashing audiences).

 

As you just said yourself, you never knew how to do breakbars, because the game never asked you to know.  

That's how we get 500 page complain threads screaming for Eater of Souls nerfs with PoF because it's "impossible", a boss that falls over if you just break it's breakbar. 

The solution to that is not to nerf it and not use the breakbar mechanic anymore, it's to ask your players more frequently to know and apply it -  so they learn and then it doesn't become an issue anymore, without the game losing it's complexity and appeal.

 

GW2 needs better ingame tutorialization, and then actually ask that knowledge and understanding of it's players. 

If player DPS is never tested, it will (for the large majority of players) never improve - which then means Anet can't use it as mechanic anymore.

This situation is not a failure or at fault of those underperforming players, but of the game.

The problem with eater of soul, if people didn't used specs with cc

Just like Fractals Tier 4 player , that whined , when the company nerfed the cc of toys and demanded the cc-breaker to get lowered , because equiping more weapons with cc=less damage :  P

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[patton the great.7126]

You think this is bad, you shoulda been here for the recapture of LA....The dps was soooooo bad back then. Killing Scarlett was like pulling your hair out while it was on fire. I mean dwayna, people auto attacking anything for less than 3.5k is grounds for uninstall...

[sergiomasako.2906]

I have done the META to the third, although I have done it with a small trap. I got into a squad that asked for LI, since I didn't show it, they kicked me out. The only thing I had to do is wait on that same map doing other things, fishing, mining... And when the dragon appeared, I got on the platform to kill it. I will never step on the META again. Thank you Anet.

Edited March 14, 2022 by sergiomasako.2906

[Gibson.4036]

5 hours ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

 

It's been 10 years of casual open world maps, with casuals being left to their own devices, and decade of the game development actively encouraging that way of things with number of deeply terrible design choices. Yes, like those "class gear" boxes. That's without even touching on the 180 turn of the very core philosophy of the game made on HoT release, and all the self-contradictions remaining unfixed since then. You don't suddenly waltz in saying "hey guys, we are hardcore now", and expect people to follow. 

Quoted for truth.

The problem isn't DPS. The problem is ArenaNet lurching around from one design idea to another.

[Desh.7028]

13 hours ago, Peterson.5172 said:

2-3 people actually get like 40k overall

 

This is either including nuking the adds or only considering time spent at the boss.

The 7k is average DPS needed on Soo-Won specifically over the duration of the encounter, everything else must be counted as 0 for that purpose.

 

Did it with a group where breakbars went so fast the bar was literally the entire phase until 40% because we rolled a natural 20, really can't ask for more. No one even was ballpark of 40k on Soo-Won in the end.

 

10 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

people complaining they want stuff for free, cos they paid for the box

 

Which is reasonable. If I go out and buy a Happy Meal I expect getting it without having to do 30 push ups first unless it is advertised in this way. I've waited for some of the terrible RNG to be toned down and went out (or in?) and got my turtle (and Prima Donna, which is much more important tbh). And for me it actually was faster than the Skyscale thanks to my squad not going 1v49 and getting nice RNG, for many players this is not the case from what I've read and heard.

[Exatherion.3075]

Often being a Commander of this event the problem is the following:

A good portion of the people cannot target the tail, bubbles or whirls.

 

This event was designed by someone with a good computer(l have one too without FPS drops). The problem is that if fps drops - and it does for the majority of players - the mechanics get to be undoable. Of course it is possible - but it is not designed with the common player in mind.

Event mechanics etc are fine - but you need to give a group without voice chat more time. Lab conditions do not apply to real world situations. Thus, please gives us 5 minutes more time.

 

Example: I had a good group with good DPS and I explained as their commander the mechanics. People followed it as good as they could and I had 2 co-commander with alt-shift symbols in case I went down. The issue was that a part of the group couldnt follow up so fast and couldnt target fast as others. You have to give the people that are slow with the mouse and have a bad computer a chance. Not everyone is able to play with top-gear(I play myself with Razer Naga Trinity+Asus top-keyboard). This is a summation of my personal experience of the conversation with other players. Please dont take the organized Discord raid group as "general" player. There will be a lot bad blood if you keep the event like that. It is fine if it fails 1/2 times but not 5/6. Many people dont have the time, will get frustrated and just dont try it again, or play something else. After all your events are usually meant to be successfully repeated not lost again, again and again. 

 

Regards

[Valaraukar.7652]

When player are on whirls, it's better to avoid trying to help them and let them die to let them reburn back quickly. It's take too much time to help them. And time is important. Of course, when they are returning back from the plateform, they should use griffon and not skyscale.

 

But one of the problem that i have see while doing again the meta for some achievement, is that some people are using their special skill in the air. And they shouldn't do that since, you do more damage on ground and you lost time because of that.

 

In a meta yesterday, i hear a lot of sound of this special skill and if people was  on ground instead of using that skill (specially against 2 and 3 legendary boss), the meta would be a success. (1% at last second with "a squad not perfectly dps").

 

At least, even if the meta was fail, people wasn't toxic and thank's the commander (who is really a good commander (it was the one who make the meta a success last time that i played with him).

Edited March 14, 2022 by Valaraukar.7652

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Same for TD before nerf, the DPS check is why ppl were failing.

[mindcircus.1506]

On 3/13/2022 at 2:30 PM, blp.3489 said:

I guess I should be embarrassed to admit that I usually only do 5k at best solo in most open world stuff, but that's more than enough to obliterate most open world content.  I don't know what DPS I do during DE because I'm too occupied with mechanics and doing as much damage as I can.

 

While 5k/sec is a bit on the low side if we are talking about larger targets like Champions/Bounties it's definitely not terrible. You see a good number of people in large meta groups booned to the gills with Might and Fury and still struggling for even half that.

 

On 3/13/2022 at 2:30 PM, blp.3489 said:

In a way, you reinforce my point, if some people are doing 35-40k while most people aren't hitting the 7k necessary to win, that's a pretty stark contrast to be mixing together.

Those are Golem benchmark numbers.

No one hits this in open world unless they are running Scourge+Epi and calculating cleave as part of their DPS.

[WolfWings.4086]

8 hours ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Open world players wear terrible gear...

Open world players run terrible builds...

And above all - developers should stop thinking they are in any position to dictate playerbase on mass how to play the game. Which, between blanket nerfs to personal survivability...

The game is 10 years old by now. You can bet your kitten that in those 10 years playerbase got completely cemented in what kind of content they want and don't want to run. Those who wanted to do fractals are running them. Same for raids...

This sums things up for me personally quite well. Been here since literal early release, run the same characters the whole era off and on, stepped away, come back, etc.

 

I've never PLAYED higher than fractal tier 4. Not cleared. Played. Never loaded into anything above a 4. I love the maps and the environments, and played some lower tiers then realized things were ramping up quickly to getting harder, and nope'd out.

 

When Druid came out? The guild I was in wanted to try raiding, and I ended up playing Druid entirely because I enjoy healing and support. Good moods player, comin' through!

 

But as they've ganked all the ways to survive over and over again... sorry ya'all but that's only resulted in me ending up in more and more survival-related gear, not getting better at glass-cannon just taking longer to out-last the heavies solo. My open-world Warrior is in Soldier at this point and several others are in mixtures of that, Knight, Sentinel, with the one exception being my Engi that's still rocking an out-dated Celestial build just so I didn't have to track what gear to put on anymore.

 

I don't have a single piece of Ascended armor, and the ONLY ascended weapon I have is a single Caladbolg because I never bothered going back to do the questline again fully to get more. So I have it as a GS and mostly play classes that can use GS if ascended gear matters. But every piece of transmog is hand-chosen and I've dropped plenty of gold to get the gear skins I wanted for each toon.

I've got three different precursors, but I like them all more than the legendary, so again I haven't progressed any of them. Heck I've had Schooner since literally weeks after it became available on one charr because it fit the theme perfectly with the cartoonishly wrecked giant barrel.

 

This is what a 10-year casual open world player is. Even if I'm kitten good at surviving and healing those around me, etc, WTF is a rotation? Why should I care? Beyond knowing when to block/dodge/etc as reactions to incoming attack animations I'm keeping my non-defensive/movement/break-stun stuff on cooldown as much as I can and wailing away otherwise.

 

All Charr, every single one of them. Never even seen the intro missions for the other races, don't care, I love Charr and how this expansion expanded on their lore, and that's what I play. 🙂 I'm dedicated about the stuff I give a kitten about, but spreadsheets, 'confirmed' builds, third-party apps, and other nonsense? Stuff it, that's for raids, fractals, and PvP, SPvP or otherwise, all stuff I have zero interest in and why I stopped playing Destiny 2 was how they kept forcing conflicting bases together by requiring you play all segments to unlock gear and often the best gear for X was only available in Y mode in giant three-way cycles.

 

And any encounter designer that's expecting more than that for open world content? They're out of their mind. Because I know for a fact I'm a lot more dedicated than lots of casuals, I slammed out the new elite's in <1 hour each without having any extra hero points saved on across my four most played and I'm working on the rest of them too. But currently DE needs to just shift to a gold/silver/bronze system, gold as it is, silver +10 minutes, bronze anything beyond that but that still takes them down but still unlocked the turtle mount egg.

[AliamRationem.5172]

23 minutes ago, WolfWings.4086 said:

This sums things up for me personally quite well. Been here since literal early release, run the same characters the whole era off and on, stepped away, come back, etc.

 

I've never PLAYED higher than fractal tier 4. Not cleared. Played. Never loaded into anything above a 4. I love the maps and the environments, and played some lower tiers then realized things were ramping up quickly to getting harder, and nope'd out.

 

When Druid came out? The guild I was in wanted to try raiding, and I ended up playing Druid entirely because I enjoy healing and support. Good moods player, comin' through!

 

But as they've ganked all the ways to survive over and over again... sorry ya'all but that's only resulted in me ending up in more and more survival-related gear, not getting better at glass-cannon just taking longer to out-last the heavies solo. My open-world Warrior is in Soldier at this point and several others are in mixtures of that, Knight, Sentinel, with the one exception being my Engi that's still rocking an out-dated Celestial build just so I didn't have to track what gear to put on anymore.

 

I don't have a single piece of Ascended armor, and the ONLY ascended weapon I have is a single Caladbolg because I never bothered going back to do the questline again fully to get more. So I have it as a GS and mostly play classes that can use GS if ascended gear matters. But every piece of transmog is hand-chosen and I've dropped plenty of gold to get the gear skins I wanted for each toon.

I've got three different precursors, but I like them all more than the legendary, so again I haven't progressed any of them. Heck I've had Schooner since literally weeks after it became available on one charr because it fit the theme perfectly with the cartoonishly wrecked giant barrel.

 

This is what a 10-year casual open world player is. Even if I'm kitten good at surviving and healing those around me, etc, WTF is a rotation? Why should I care? Beyond knowing when to block/dodge/etc as reactions to incoming attack animations I'm keeping my non-defensive/movement/break-stun stuff on cooldown as much as I can and wailing away otherwise.

 

All Charr, every single one of them. Never even seen the intro missions for the other races, don't care, I love Charr and how this expansion expanded on their lore, and that's what I play. 🙂 I'm dedicated about the stuff I give a kitten about, but spreadsheets, 'confirmed' builds, third-party apps, and other nonsense? Stuff it, that's for raids, fractals, and PvP, SPvP or otherwise, all stuff I have zero interest in and why I stopped playing Destiny 2 was how they kept forcing conflicting bases together by requiring you play all segments to unlock gear and often the best gear for X was only available in Y mode in giant three-way cycles.

 

And any encounter designer that's expecting more than that for open world content? They're out of their mind. Because I know for a fact I'm a lot more dedicated than lots of casuals, I slammed out the new elite's in <1 hour each without having any extra hero points saved on across my four most played and I'm working on the rest of them too. But currently DE needs to just shift to a gold/silver/bronze system, gold as it is, silver +10 minutes, bronze anything beyond that but that still takes them down but still unlocked the turtle mount egg.

You guys pushing the idea that the game needs to teach better to resolve situations like the current conflict need to listen to people like this.  This right here is why you won't get anywhere with these ideas.  Not everyone cares about improving their combat capability.  They play the game for different reasons than you do.  Accept it.

[WolfWings.4086]

17 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You guys pushing the idea that the game needs to teach better to resolve situations like the current conflict need to listen to people like this.  This right here is why you won't get anywhere with these ideas.  Not everyone cares about improving their combat capability.  They play the game for different reasons than you do.  Accept it.

And I sincerely, whole-heartedly, want them to keep the current encounter available, as an "insert instanced private group organized term here" of some kind. Fractal, raid, I don't know or care what, park it there, it's honestly beautifully designed as an encounter. I respect how well it can work as it is. Put some special whatever behind clearing it there.

 

But yeah open world? GTFO with that, don't care if this is the last whatever of the whenever, it's not what open world content in GW2 is where it's always been "Jump right in, you basically can do no harm by helping out!" for nearly the entire history.

 

Especially when so many things are locked behind a successful clear, including the showcase mount of the expansion. I have two of my mains already to the point where the only thing they need is a clear each of DE to get their specialization-specific ascended weapon, at this rate I'll likely have all nine stuck at that phase.

[Obfuscate.6430]

There is not a single section in all of Guild Wars 2 that teaches players the value of the numbers on their gear. There is no gear barrier to accessing end stage areas.  I remember a content creator , I think, ran the core game start to finish without any gear on and had no issues.  There is no place in the game that I can recall, which required you to do a set amount of damage in order to progress . Instead there were only damage sponges with generous timers. 
There are no parts in this game that teaches someone new to the game how to access the potential of their class, or make their own builds. 
Consider if you will that for some people, this is the only mmorpg they've played - some do not consider themselves "gamers" in the sense that they maybe play 2 or 3 games. Consider that this game for the most part is very forgiving and generous to people who have no idea what they are doing, while making them feel good about it. 
I think - that was the philosophy they started with: play how you want, play as whatever you want to be - no one gets left behind. 

This new meta is a giant slap in the face to the people who have been playing the game as it has been presented this entire time.
 I don't mind that challenging content exists. I don't mind that this meta is difficult. 
I love that this game can serve so many different tastes. 
But - why did they put this out in open world like this, in this way? 
I hate how it's dividing the community. I think something went really wrong here.   

[blp.3489]

Just to be cute I think they should put Aurene crystals around the platform where the chests are if you win, and when you get to the timer limit they should start shattering one at a time every some number of seconds.  They would represent Aurene's magic reserves slowly dwindling.  When you eventually win you only get to loot the crystals that haven't shattered.

It would be a bonus if you saw the loot inside fly up in the air and get swept off the platform and sucked into the void.

Double bonus if the crystal get destroyed by some sort of creature that low DPS players can kill before they shatter the crystal.

Edited March 15, 2022 by blp.3489
Typo

[Woof.8246]

Just now, Valaraukar.7652 said:

When player are on whirls, it's better to avoid trying to help them and let them die to let them reburn back quickly. It's take too much time to help them. And time is important.

Yeah , there might not be some people that have unlocked the Waystation to get the cc spell  and contribute to the destruction of the Breakbar.

Either a smaller version can be equipped if you don't have the mastery ,

or  a small buff to cc spells , where accounts don't have played Raids ,

or the entrapment people emit an INVISIBLE  damage buff to the rest of the group . So the "survivors" can play the game , like the 2-5man  split "instanced" fight in Marionette ,

or a WWE "tag system" to switch places , if you get a dangerous debuff that's gonna kill you in 20 sec (BURST FAST THOSE CD) . Few "best" survivors will get the thrill and the rest ...most likely.. want someday to become THAT guy

 

Edit:The newly applied whirl is half the duration , or the duration is increased based on how low the hp of the boss is(same for the attacks , where they do 30% more to those who haven't been damaged and 15% who does in each passing Min , if the ratio of 1min =>10%hp boss is broken(they do more dps than intented) .

The times that this ratio is broken , more difficulty and rewards will be given , or my previous idea an other post (where Skitt "steals time" from the 10min timer ).  We can mask it under  : "improving Meta Boss AI" and not : "congratz you cheat the system from doing more dps, now lets increace the requirements and after 1 year  you must do 40k top progress)

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Minjin.8259]

12 hours ago, Scolix.4879 said:

I think the problem could be simply fixed by giving two turtles one from the difficult event and one from easier way and make them look different or have slightly different abilities because the current way only makes everybody sour like you said HC people hate i am here just for the turtle and open world crowd are either not interest in learning or do not care at all about it.

I already accepted that i won't get the mount my self as i have no more patience or interest on the event let alone that i would then have to go and do strike missions when i have barely done any instance type content for over a decade.

 

So someone who waltzes in and gets lucky and gets with a good group and kills it the first try does it the hard way, but someone who tries and fails say 15 times, grinds the writs and ends up buying it from the vendor gets it the easier way?  And the first guy deserves something better for his effort?

[Nuunes.5046]

[Removed]

Edited July 29, 2022 by Nuunes.5046