Does Anet hate Mesmers?

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I've been told about that as well by someone who is/was on pvp discord. To add to that the best mesmer player on game (Jazz) got kicked out of pvp discord for defending mes even before the first beta, so the bias is ridiculous. 

Wait they booted a player out of a PvP discord for saying mesmer was good? 👀

[Sylvia.4870]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I've been told about that as well by someone who is/was on pvp discord. To add to that the best mesmer player on game (Jazz) got kicked out of pvp discord for defending mes even before the first beta, so the bias is ridiculous. 

        Got kicked because of defending the Mesmer profession? jeez. Some people in these days are really frightening. I understand they don't like the class, but driving someone out from the discord is too much.

[Sylvia.4870]

4 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Its no surprise really, still unless they completely remove the class, mesmer mains will always find a way to kitten the living daylight out of haters. 

       And haters will never get out of the cycle of abhorrence.

[mortrialus.3062]

49 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Wait they booted a player out of a PvP discord for saying mesmer was good? 👀

He was kicked for saying mesmer should be allowed to be competitive.

[Levetty.1279]

5 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Leaks from the private PvP discord with top players and the PvP+WvW balance devs CMC and Ben has shown them bluntly stating that since the Megabalance patch they've decided to look at mesmer as inherently unhealthy for PvP and thus while they don't want to make it legitimately unplayable, it should never be good or strong in PvP to incentivize people playing it and  that they feel it should comfortably be the weakest class and uncompetitive. 

Which scans with how mesmers have been unambiguously the weakest class in PvP since megabalance and have not received a not one, not a single buff post megabalance except for stuff the separate skills team implement like the staff rework (which was very swiftly nerfed).

This has been confirmed through screencaps but you can't go around posting screencaps because you'll catch warnings and bans for posting that kind of stuff. 

In PvP Mesmer is basically a clunky pink Thief. WTF is wrong with them?

[mortrialus.3062]

Just now, Levetty.1279 said:

In PvP Mesmer is basically a clunky pink Thief. WTF is wrong with them?

Mesmer hasn't been remotely close to thief as a roamer since portal was smiters booned.

Thief is eternally meta and must have except the occasions where the game becomes supremely bunker heavy.

[Yoci.2481]

If true this is really terrible. I wont buy EoD and I will not give them any more money until they replace those devs. Sharing this on social media.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Yoci.2481

[godfat.2604]

Not sure which one is worse. One that they are fully incapable of balancing, or one that they intended to make the game imbalance because they just hate mesmers, and think this is good overall for the game? Actually, the latter might also imply that they’re not qualified to make balance changes, so in the end it’s still the same. Perfect excuse to be incapable.

[Mik.3401]

I don’t think they necessarily ‘hate’ the class, it’s more like they don’t have the capacity to develop it anymore. Back in GW1/ early GW2 days the devs were ambitious and hungry to deliver a prime gaming experience and make classes interesting.

Nowadays it is more like milking the brand and focusing on easy jobs like aesthetics etc. They just don’t care anymore about making the game interesting for serious players. They just want to make money and move on to the next project in couple years eventually. Something definitely has changed, probably because most of the original devs are gone, the new ones feel absent mentally.

The EoD is an aesthetics expansion and virtuoso is an aesthetic spec. Both in kind of bad taste but that of course is debatable. The point is expecting innovative and interesting gameplay changes is nonsense. They invest in pets/AI and passive sustain now to avoid having to figure out class mechanics. 

 

[godfat.2604]

To be honest that sounds even worse if not the worst yet. And if they indeed intentionally make mesmers bad at competitive modes, that did translate to hate/dislike/disapprove to me. How they actually “feel” doesn’t really matter I suppose. No need to rework everything, just rebalance.

Seriously, they can make a class difficult to perform so the skill ceiling is high. High risk high rewards, that’s a perfectly fine way to balance, but intentionally make it bad is unbelievable. I would love to read their private Discord to make my own judgement, but from what we know from here at the moment, that’s the conclusion we can make. :shrug:

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Just checked a chat I had with someone months ago regarding this and was told that while CMC and other devs don't say explicitly they dislike mesmer they follow the narrative of Mesmer haters on balance discord and subsequently agree with them. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Norbe.7630]

Try Virtuoso, i quit the game when they released that spec and some other stuff.
Came back here on forums from time to time to see if Anut is listening to the ones left.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Norbe.7630

[Infinity.2876]

57 minutes ago, Norbe.7630 said:

Anut 

This is turning out to be a very apt name for anet😬

[Kylden Ar.3724]

6 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Just checked a chat I had with someone months ago regarding this and was told that while CMC and other devs don't say explicitly they dislike mesmer they follow the narrative of Mesmer haters on balance discord and subsequently agree with them. 

 

Of course. Take advice from people that can't tell between AI and Human target movements.

[Puck.3697]

7 minutes ago, Kylden Ar.3724 said:

 

Of course. Take advice from people that can't tell between AI and Human target movements.

the issue is u dont need to.

Anets actions to continously Enforce Mesmers to be Mediocre at best in competitive game modes backs it up.

 

[viquing.8254]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:07 PM, raineybilly.6439 said:

I know Power Mirage was kind of busted back in the day...

It wasn't even the case because back in time other specs were also busted. (Mean war damage on evade, engi damage on evade and plethora of carrying tools on other specs...)

So even when mirage was unerfed it wasn't over-represented on EU ladder.

Bias were and are everywhere, rebember when they up scepter 3 direct damage, tons on whine, then we come back to a situation were with the same gear, Ghastly claws hit like a truc while confusing image does nothing, and we can made a class comparison of effect per skill with every class, fact are that during 10 years, every team-fight/aoe class got tools while mesmer not only didn't get anything new but was nerfed on core things.

Is it normal that classes with aoe/teamfight options do more damage than single target mesmer in PvP with the same gear?

 

The funniest thing is when I meet some rangers who kill me 3 times, who whine when I one-shot him 1 time.

[Puck.3697]

27 minutes ago, viquing.8254 said:

It wasn't even the case because back in time other specs were also busted. (Mean war damage on evade, engi damage on evade and plethora of carrying tools on other specs...)

So even when mirage was unerfed it wasn't over-represented on EU ladder.

Bias were and are everywhere, rebember when they up scepter 3 direct damage, tons on whine, then we come back to a situation were with the same gear, Ghastly claws hit like a truc while confusing image does nothing, and we can made a class comparison of effect per skill with every class, fact are that during 10 years, every team-fight/aoe class got tools while mesmer not only didn't get anything new but was nerfed on core things.

Is it normal that classes with aoe/teamfight options do more damage than single target mesmer in PvP with the same gear?

 

The funniest thing is when I meet some rangers who kill me 3 times, who whine when I one-shot him 1 time.

my favorite part is:

Power Mirage Was not busted, Condi Mirage was not busted.

What was busted was Bunker Mirage in Season 9. Due to a few mechanics, one being mirages Dodge Being usuable during Stuns etc etc.

This wasnt the case of "a Entire speccs broken" This is a Baseline mechanic which was making the proffession overperform at a Specific Role in SPVP, now they could of Nerfed the Actual thing people were unhappy with Instead, they persisted to have it Exist and Just Nerfed absolutely everything around that One Mechanic.

and lets amound. the entire problem isnt the fact we lost a Dodge, the problem was they Stacked a HEAP of nerfs on our Dodge renegeration.. then Removed a Dodge ontop without reversing any prior nerfs, they just Litterally Nerfed it every patch til it stopped being played.

if they actually did something with some Depth and Reworked our Dodge mechanic into a Actual functional System (Vindicator being a good example of this) it'd of likely not Destroyed the specc like it has done.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Jables.4659]

On 3/17/2022 at 2:45 AM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Mesmer is the only profession that doesnt have 5 new weapon skills on any elite spec. 

Tbf, Mirage gave us 8 new weapon skills (counting axe auto-attack as one skill).  

5 ambush skills and 3 axe skills.  

I respect the spirit of your comment though.  

Edit: It also gave us 2 aquatic weapon skills!

Edited March 21, 2022 by Jables.4659
Adding information

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

my favorite part is:

Power Mirage Was not busted, Condi Mirage was not busted.

What was busted was Bunker Mirage in Season 9. Due to a few mechanics, one being mirages Dodge Being usuable during Stuns etc etc.

This wasnt the case of "a Entire speccs broken" This is a Baseline mechanic which was making the proffession overperform at a Specific Role in SPVP, now they could of Nerfed the Actual thing people were unhappy with Instead, they persisted to have it Exist and Just Nerfed absolutely everything around that One Mechanic.

and lets amound. the entire problem isnt the fact we lost a Dodge, the problem was they Stacked a HEAP of nerfs on our Dodge renegeration.. then Removed a Dodge ontop without reversing any prior nerfs, they just Litterally Nerfed it every patch til it stopped being played.

if they actually did something with some Depth and Reworked our Dodge mechanic into a Actual functional System (Vindicator being a good example of this) it'd of likely not Destroyed the specc like it has done.

I've said this sooooo many times.

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, Jables.4659 said:

Tbf, Mirage gave us 8 new weapon skills (counting axe auto-attack as one skill).  

5 ambush skills and 3 axe skills.  

I respect the spirit of your comment though.  

Edit: It also gave us 2 aquatic weapon skills!

Skills that forces us to use dodge even tho we don't need it to pump damage. That is already bad design. When we do need to dodge we won't have it because its choosing between damage or evading damage. Even more so with one dodge but worse because now you dont want to waste your dodge BECAUSE YOU ONLY HAVE ONE. Quite ridiculous really.

[godfat.2604]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

if they actually did something with some Depth and Reworked our Dodge mechanic into a Actual functional System (Vindicator being a good example of this) it'd of likely not Destroyed the specc like it has done.

I understand this is just trying to get some designs around one dodge mirage (but 2 dodges in PvE, this is impossible to get around by designs, unless we want to drop 1 dodge in PvE as well. Watch some PvE players rage if this happens), but after my attempts to run Virtuoso in WvW raid, I tried Vindicator in WvW raid and EoD meta (PvE) as well.

Long story short, I don’t think one dodge is a reasonable design in the GW2 world if we want to play seriously. Vindicator in WvW is also pretty clunky, even though I can certainly say it worked much better than Virtuoso because there’s no projectile issues, but comparing to Herald it’s still a disaster. I swapped back to Herald and I immediately did double DPS. There were several reasons for this, but this is not a revenant forum so I won’t go into details.

Just scrap the idea of having a single dodge, seriously. At best it’s not fun even if it can be balanced.

Edited March 21, 2022 by godfat.2604

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, godfat.2604 said:

I understand this is just trying to get some designs around one dodge mirage (but 2 dodges in PvE, this is impossible to get around by designs, unless we want to drop 1 dodge in PvE as well. Watch some PvE players rage if this happens), but after my attempts to run Virtuoso in WvW raid, I tried Vindicator in WvW raid and EoD meta (PvE) as well.

Long story short, I don’t think one dodge is a reasonable design in the GW2 world if we want to play seriously. Vindicator in WvW is also pretty clunky, even though I can certainly say it worked much better than Virtuoso because there’s no projectile issues, but comparing to Herald it’s still a disaster. I swapped back to Herald and I immediately did double DPS. There were several reasons for this, but this is not a revenant forum so I won’t go into details.

Just scrap the idea of having a single dodge, seriously. At best it’s not fun even if it can be balanced.

I'd argue the reason it was a PvP only nerf was purely because Anet was set on annihilating it and wanted to argue "but it's ok in PvE hurrdurr" when people would screech they deleted it. 

But yes 2 dodges would be ideal, I think this was just anets laziness when it came to reworking it to be balanced in a healthier direction then it was a "good change" 

 

[Puck.3697]

48 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Skills that forces us to use dodge even tho we don't need it to pump damage. That is already bad design. When we do need to dodge we won't have it because its choosing between damage or evading damage. Even more so with one dodge but worse because now you dont want to waste your dodge BECAUSE YOU ONLY HAVE ONE. Quite ridiculous really.

Agreed I've never understood people who look at Dodge Design being used as a DPS Source is a "positive thing" .

Vindicator. should have never had a DPS Modifer on its Dodge or Damage functionality to its dodge

Daredevil should have never had a DPS Modifer on its Dodge  or damage functionality to its Dodge.

Mirage Should have never had a Ambush system tied to Dodge.

Dodge is a Defensive Utility added to Proffessions, to well time to dodge bursts of Damage or to negate as much damage as possible. Initially it was apart of a System created to remove the Trinity system and give players More control over their own survivability.

This should have never been broken.

Mirage IMHO Should have had Shatters Replaced with Nightmares, which worked alike those Plant Snake monsters who create those Illusionary Nightmares, the Likely reason they went with what they had. it costs Less Resources to Replicate another Shatter system to actually making something New.

Dodge needs to go back to core Design. 1 Dodge concepts Need to be Ended Mirage needs Its 2nd Dodge back and Anet need to stop Trying to do silly things and get creative with the parts of Proffessions that would Actually have a Positive healthy impact on the game.

I.E why do we have 4 Speccs Entirely built around a Shatter system.

IMHO. if i got to decide a Rework i'd likely go.

Core - Hexs.

Chronomancer - Phantasms / Time

Mirage - Nightmares.

Virutoso - Weaponary.

Imho Clone Design is Just rly weird design which holds the proffession back in so many aspects and i feel the Theme of Illusionary magic could be Depicted in a MUCH More creative way where Elites would be More Diverse in the Illusionary Aspects they offer.

Its cool to have Utility whcih features this idea of Clones of urself as a Evasive / Defensive Manuever, but its Entire Combat Style built around em seems REALLY lame. when u see People use Illusionary Magic to create clones of themselves. they're used in Diversion, Stealth, Distraction they are not used as a Source of Attacking.

IMHO, Clones need to become apart of us as our Defensive Tools and the Offensive side of it should be dedicated to other Sources of illusionary magic. thus Creating the Theme of Illusionary Magic. and Not Hazey Double vision on a bad day.

and lets not get to the idea of vindicator being a Slow moving Spring in combat. because thats a Heap of rubbish too.

the only one that benefited from this dumb design is Daredevil.. and what do you know.. all it did was make Thief OP and mandatory in PvP. oh wow health.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, Norbe.7630 said:

Try Virtuoso, i quit the game when they released that spec and some other stuff.
Came back here on forums from time to time to see if Anut is listening to the ones left.

Arg this is the exact reason I try stick up for Mesmer and Virtuoso in general even if it's Anets Punching bag.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Salt Mode.3780]

35 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Arg this is the exact reason I try stick up for Mesmer and Virtuoso in general even if it's Anets Punching bag.

You werent sticking up for mesmers, putting false positivity is exactly what reddit did and thts why virtuoso literally saw little to no change.

You think all the mesmer mains in forums complain for no reason? Most of us that have been on the class since the game release are TIRED of seeing mesmer get countless nerfs.

At some point we are trying to strike a deal with devs to nerf one part to buff another. We arent even straight up asking for buffs anymore.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780