Dragon's End Meta is Garbage

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

I agree but this meta is beyond hard.

It is not. Once you have seen and internalized all the mechanics, it is no harder than doing the achievements for the final story mission ("The Only One").

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Healix.5819]

2 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

How, when this game is supposedly designed to be a good match for casual players?

In the same way Dark Souls is a good match for casual players. It was never intended to be easy, it was meant to not waste your time with meaningless grinding. That's what ArenaNet meant when they originally called the game casual-friendly.

[AgentMoore.9453]

The average player should be able to complete this meta and there should be an instanced version of it for those who desire more challenge and coordination. Right now, that isn't the case.

Trying to 'train people up' after 10 years won't work any better than trying to 'train people down'. A raider wouldn't enjoy a PvE-level raid any more than a T1 fractal player would enjoy T4. Forcing these things will not have the miraculous effect of changing what people enjoy. There shouldn't have to be this weird clash between the casual and highly-invested players as a result of being dumped into the same sandbox. This destructive rift was completely unnecessary.

Without rebalancing, Dragon's End will continue to fail and is destined to eventually become like Triple Trouble, Serpent's Ire, and other previous attempts to bring instanced coordination and difficulty to the open world. How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man ArenaNet?

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Healix.5819 said:

In the same way Dark Souls is a good match for casual players. It was never intended to be easy, it was meant to not waste your time with meaningless grinding. That's what ArenaNet meant when they originally called the game casual-friendly.

Yup, that's the good point some people here frequently ignore or miss. The game doesn't bother the players with raising lvl caps or endless gear treadmill. The player can get to level 80, grab exotic/ascended items, take an extended break and after comming back still be sure their character is relevant in the new content. If that's not a casual friendly mmorpg, then I'm not sure what is.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[arielwind.8921]

Dragon's Stand meta was fun, i enjoyed it. But Dragon's End? I don't think so. It's just raid style meta with 50 ppl, and GW2 raid and other instance contents don't seem great because all they do is ground mark based combat. Don't you think it's silly that enemy tell's you where to attack? There're action combat MMOs doing better without these ground indicator(red circle), like phantasy star online.

[azorean.1850]

21 minutes ago, Healix.5819 said:

In the same way Dark Souls is a good match for casual players. It was never intended to be easy, it was meant to not waste your time with meaningless grinding. That's what ArenaNet meant when they originally called the game casual-friendly.

Finaly someone says it.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

50 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

How, when this game is supposedly designed to be a good match for casual players?

"Casual friendly" does not equal "no skill cap to speak of".

Also, this meta is only hard for people who either cannot or outright REFUSE to learn an encounter's mechanics and keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.

Edited March 28, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[Gorem.8104]

No rewards for winning, no fun, worst meta in the game, takes 2 hours, 3 if you want to organise, and you get nothing for your work if you lose which has a higher chance of happening then winning due to its high RNG. 

But to be honest, we all know this at this point that this is the games worst meta. Threads don't usually reach 60 pages and yet look at the main feedback thread. even this thread in 2hours hit over 2 pages. Doesn't matter what side are on, the fact that this split the player base and caused drama and arguments is worse then how bad the meta is. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Guys, it really just needs a non lazy commander and people who can read the squad messages from the the tag, after that it's pretty easy.

[Parasite.5389]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Guys, it really just needs a non lazy commander and people who can read the squad messages from the the tag, after that it's pretty easy.

beyond organizing the march south, i don't think they meta really need a commander at all

[Gorem.8104]

40 minutes ago, Parasite.5389 said:

honestly, no, I'm terrible at the game, I don't raid, i don't do Fractals, my build is garbage, and the last time i look at my benchmark in was around 10k

 

That moment when you realise that 10k is still more then double the usual average. saying 10k here means you are actually carrying people. 

[Parasite.5389]

Just now, Gorem.8104 said:

That moment when you realise that 10k is still more then double the usual average. saying 10k here means you are actually carrying people. 

that was best case, with the golem set up with 25 stacks of Vun and giving myself all boon

[Hesione.9412]

1 minute ago, Gorem.8104 said:

That moment when you realise that 10k is still more then double the usual average. saying 10k here means you are actually carrying people. 

Yep, and with random PUG maps with no balance of alacrity, or attempts to get alacrity, might, etc. As soon as support and where it goes becomes important, it's not an average-player-friendly meta.

[Gorem.8104]

1 minute ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Yep, and with random PUG maps with no balance of alacrity, or attempts to get alacrity, might, etc. As soon as support and where it goes becomes important, it's not an average-player-friendly meta.

Exactly, open world should never require support builds. If you try and solo with them everything takes forever and your are just useless. You require other people to be around you. You are teaming up with 49 other entirely random players, the lowest common denominator, then expecting them to do raid level content? This meta from the ground up makes no sense. 

All it tells us is once people are done with it, that'll be it. You will have to join dedicated groups to do this content as the zone will be entirely dead. Its almost dead already and we only a month into new content. I see more people still in every other map. 
This meta failed hard. 

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

6 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

If you try and solo with them everything takes forever and your are just useless.

But why would you try and solo with a support build? I mean, it's possible to solo champion level enemies with support builds, but why would you engage in that on a regular basis? And before you complain about the cost of having multiple gear sets: it is EXTREMELY easy to earn money in this game, and the exotic versions are NOT expensive.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

8 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Exactly, open world should never require support builds. If you try and solo with them everything takes forever and your are just useless. You require other people to be around you. You are teaming up with 49 other entirely random players, the lowest common denominator, then expecting them to do raid level content? This meta from the ground up makes no sense. 

All it tells us is once people are done with it, that'll be it. You will have to join dedicated groups to do this content as the zone will be entirely dead. Its almost dead already and we only a month into new content. I see more people still in every other map. 
This meta failed hard. 

In DE runs the only "support" are Quickness DPS and Alac DPS, nothing else.
You get 20% damage boost for doing events, you get further 5% if the map is fully prepared. You get even more boost and boons from Jade buffs. 
If with all that you struggle to reach 10k it's your own fault.

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Except this meta is not balanced around the highest skill ceiling.
If it was we'd need dedicated healers, the required DPS wouldn't be a measly 7k, but 20k, or even more, there'd be more mechanics other than the Red "don't stand in it", Green "stand in it" and the other "just wack it" and "jump over it". There'd be mechanics that instantly wipe.

Boy, that raid drought is really kicking in if people need to defend bad design this much huh?

 

But out of curiousity, did anyone log arcdps numbers for each squad member, and since you don't need to do the pre events (as stated in this thread), without the damage buff?

 

You can do 7k per person is what you're saying if I understand correctly.

 

Ok... Did anyone record a successfully completed and one unsuccessfull meta logs? I'm sure people would be interested. 

 

Alsoy wipe mechanics, and the number of mechanics have nothing to do with skill ceiling of your class, how good you are at it, like, at all. Being balanced around a skill ceiling means, somebody balanced this event according to the highest dps numbers that are possible by using your class. Not average dps numbers that most players are able to achieve.

 

But Hey, I'm prepared to be wrong. I'm not married to this statementy can someone please peove me wrong. I want to actually be wrong about  this because then that means anet actually put thought into this, not just overtune it because golemdps. 

 

Someone post a combat log of every player in squad and let's see how much dps they were outputting without the damage buff from events, and a successful meta.

Then post one for the failed.

 

Should be easy to see how much each player needs to output to kill the boss.

 

But... sadly... this meta problems run deeper than just dps. Its a time investmet without an award. And it requires organization when you can't even get all the people to the same map most of the time. Because it doesn't give you the tools to succed. And people rightfully don't find that fun.

[mythical.6315]

Bad design = I don’t like it

[Caitybee.3614]

This event still has a huge fail rate (I'd say about 90% chance to fail even with an organized squad), and you can almost always tell if it's a fail in the first 5 minutes of the fight. It has a lot to do with the DPS getting into the green phase as fast as possible at the beginning, and doing every single mechanic correctly and on time. Regular groups probably will not succeed unless they get a lucky run.

 

My only 2 wins on this meta were back-to-back, the 1st group was everything I said it needs, and it felt like a win the entire run. We had 6 minutes to spare. The 2nd time I thought it was going to fail, but we had just enough DPS/good mechanic timing to beat it with around 2 minutes left.

 

Every run since has failed, even with organized maps/squads. I've even run into a new problem; I don't see many maps attempting the meta anymore, they don't even touch the escort to get it moving, and one map I was in failed at the final 5 crystal event because people weren't coordinating and didn't get them all topped up in time.

 

The recent attempt I was a part of, the beginning looked good but with under 15 minutes left I knew we didn't have the DPS and it ended up failing at the final mini boss stage. I sat on the airship waypoint with another player and just watched the fight as the timer ran down, not much to do since it was a guaranteed fail.

 

This fight still needs tweaks, or at the very least 5 more minutes to the timer, or pause the timer during the mini boss phase.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

1 hour ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

 

DE meta, RNG base drop for T3 upgrade component for jade bot, just to name few.

You can buy the jade statue and buy the bounty box 5 times for 200 imperial favors for 6 rolls at the upgrade per week.  No need to do the meta you dislike.

[Mickey.4207]

3 hours ago, Redseven.3985 said:

Please fix this what on Earth, way overturned and way too long.

If you can't spare atleast 8 to 10 hours a day on this. Don't bother. 

[Ashantara.8731]

12 minutes ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

This fight still needs tweaks, or at the very least 5 more minutes to the timer, or pause the timer during the mini boss phase.

But then there would be no challenge left! The biggest challenge in this meta is beating the timer by playing the mechanics correctly (which includes dealing a decent amount of damage).

This whole expansion is about movement (i.e., dodging AoE) and fight mechanics (CC, boons, etc), as proven by the types of enemies (who are pulling, pushing, constantly placing AoEs) and the update on boons and some of the new elite specs' skills/mechanics.

So ANet clearly wants to teach their average player to improve in combat.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Caitybee.3614]

1 minute ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

But then there would be no challenge left! The biggest challenge in this meta is beating the timer by playing the mechanics correctly (which includes dealing a decent amount of damage).

This whole expansion is about movement (i.e., dodging AoE) and fight mechanics (CC, boons, etc), so ANet clearly wants to teach their average player to improve in combat.

Even with 5 minutes it could still fail, it just allows a bit more room for error. This meta isn't for the "average" player, it truly is built more for those who know what they're doing and have the appropriate skill to attempt it. That's entirely up to Anet to make these kinds of challenges, and this meta is incredibly fun, but failing constantly turns a lot of players away and burns them out after attempting it so many times.

[Ashantara.8731]

15 hours ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

Even with 5 minutes it could still fail, it just allows a bit more room for error. This meta isn't for the "average" player, it truly is built more for those who know what they're doing and have the appropriate skill to attempt it. That's entirely up to Anet to make these kinds of challenges, and this meta is incredibly fun, but failing constantly turns a lot of players away and burns them out after attempting it so many times.

Hmm. No average person attempts running through a wall repeatedly -- everyone will go grab a ladder after their first failed attempt.

ANet obviously wants to encourage every player to take a deeper look at the game's basics and rejoice once they realize how much easier they will have it with a few build tweaks and proper equipment, even in a simple open-world environment. You don't have to go through a difficult learning curve and become "pro" in order to improve -- some people seem to have a misconception about that.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Parasite.5389 said:

beyond organizing the march south, i don't think they meta really need a commander at all

It helps to organize the sub groups and tell said groups their roles. Beyond that ppl need to learn the mechanics.

 

The subgroup thing is pretty important and has been the single biggest indicator of success in my runs