Dragon's End Meta is Garbage

[mindcircus.1506]

2 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

before the meta even starts in order to be able to even challange the boss needs to be fired.

There's been a lot of really crappy things said on all sides of this issue but calling for people to lose their jobs is a level of toxicity that is considered out of bounds even on the GW2 reddit.

This has gone far beyond feedback or discussion.

 

[mindcircus.1506]

Duplicate.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by mindcircus.1506

[Hadi.2430]

I don't understand people who complain about how organized groups still fail the meta claiming 90% all time  while I'm here on a  10 wins streak squad that i command daily.....No kp, just quickdps/alacdps and big dps with randoms on EU server. feel free to msg me in game name :Hadi The blight  , to save a spot in my runs.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by sammokdadd.3602

[hexadecimalwtf.4203]

I am up to 18 failed attempts and no success. The amount of time I have wasted on this map is astounding. What sucks is I feel like I can't even play my character or risk the map buff ticking away. So now all I can do is try to time this meta that lines up with a small gap of time I have to play. Trying to join a group 30-60 minutes early just to get in the map to sit around waiting, 30 minutes on a tedious lead up event, just to fail on the boss because people can't jump. 

 

There is no way this was what Arenanet intended when they designed this map. It sucks all the fun out of the game.

[BadHealer.3608]

4 hours ago, Parasite.5389 said:

you can absolutely do DE without doing any of daytime the pre-events

That is strange. Here the DE isn't starting when no one did the pre-events. Maybe you are talking about a different game? Here when the clock strikes 0:00 and the pre-events aren't done, than the map resets and you can can try again in 2 hours.

[DerAlteSack.3572]

I don't know. I have been doing this meta quite a few times recently. We just had a commander putting people into 3 groups for the split phases. No sorting by alac/quick dps. Also we didn't have any requirements for joining the squad. So I dare say that we got "the average player" into the map. 

There was only one thing we did: When creating the squad we were looking for a fresh map (checking the south waypoint if it doesn't have any progress). This way we made sure that everyone on the map was also participating in the meta. 

So far I have been successful nearly every time with this squad of average LFG players. We even managed to salvage a run where we failed at killing the 3 mini bosses at the same time.

 

However I do agree that this meta is badly designed. I don't think they should tweak the difficulty of the final fight. That one seems to be tuned in pretty good in my opinion. What should be changed is the reward structure. It can't be that 90% of the reward are coming from killing the final boss and I can whole heartedly understand that people are upset about spending 1h+ on a map and getting nothing from it. 

In my opinion, during the preparation phase you should also have a participation track like in Drizzlewood, so you regularly get some rewards from participating in the events. Furthermore during the escorts I would add some small chests after every event.

This way, even if you fail the final event, your time spent in the map hasn't been for nothing. 

[zityz.6089]

This map makes no sense. On one hand you have people who are out and about fishing, map completion, story, events for MP's achievements Jade farming... and then you have a Meta that requires a full map of people maxed out doing events consistently, prepping and then starting the thing, and some things are locked and unable to do until you complete the meta. 

 

Both of these things do NOT mix together, and is causing a clash between the people who want to do the meta and people who want to just do the map.

The Meta itself is fine for what it is leading up to it and the mechanics are fine, however the whole thing just needs major tweaks.

At least, remove the event requirements leading up to the event and attach the boost by 2% at the end of each red event, so you get the boost WHILE doing the event and not an hour leading up to it before, as a start.

 

[BadHealer.3608]

3 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

This whole expansion is about movement (i.e., dodging AoE)

Yes and the first AOE of the boss is non dodgeable. Really good to tell them people something that is useless on the boss.

 

[Linken.6345]

23 minutes ago, BadHealer.3608 said:

Yes and the first AOE of the boss is non dodgeable. Really good to tell them people something that is useless on the boss.

 

It is not you dodge away from the circle and then jump with space while moving forward to jump over the wave. just like you jump Tequatl the Sunless waves or drakkars expanding ice wave.

[Bunny.9834]

Have 2 rangers ran 2 Druids with Glyph of Stars. 

Every time Soo-Won is about to do one of her one shot swipes, smash, tidal waves.... have the Druids go to Celestial Avatar and cast Glyph of Stars. 

I've been running glyph druid in this meta every time I play it and it's so helpful insta rezzing those who keeps dying on the same mechanic regardless of how many times the commander or anybody on chat yells "DODGE!" "MOVE!" "FOLLOW TAG!" 

 

Because you can't control other people's action, but you can control what you do. 

And insta-rezzzing 10 people saves a lot of time during this meta boss. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

6 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

Yes I did and I got my turtle before nerf. But this meta sucks for open world event. I don't even know why I am still participating in this discussion anymore.  Anet and few of you can keep this meta.. but be sure to pay bills as well coz I am not paying Anet anymore for the direction game is taking.

DE meta, RNG base drop for T3 upgrade component for jade bot, just to name few.

strikes.

[ugrakarma.9416]

1 hour ago, zityz.6089 said:

This map makes no sense. On one hand you have people who are out and about fishing, map completion, story, events for MP's achievements Jade farming... and then you have a Meta that requires a full map of people maxed out doing events consistently, prepping and then starting the thing, and some things are locked and unable to do until you complete the meta. 

 

Both of these things do NOT mix together, and is causing a clash between the people who want to do the meta and people who want to just do the map.

The Meta itself is fine for what it is leading up to it and the mechanics are fine, however the whole thing just needs major tweaks.

At least, remove the event requirements leading up to the event and attach the boost by 2% at the end of each red event, so you get the boost WHILE doing the event and not an hour leading up to it before, as a start.

 

also discord requirment lol.

 

i was a "professional" Wvwer for a long time, i don't take a break from WvW to jump to the need of discord in open world.

 

im not blaming ppl who require it, but meta so hard that drive ppl to use it.

[ugrakarma.9416]

6 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

The average player should be able to complete this meta and there should be an instanced version of it for those who desire more challenge and coordination. Right now, that isn't the case.

Trying to 'train people up' after 10 years won't work any better than trying to 'train people down'. A raider wouldn't enjoy a PvE-level raid any more than a T1 fractal player would enjoy T4. Forcing these things will not have the miraculous effect of changing what people enjoy. There shouldn't have to be this weird clash between the casual and highly-invested players as a result of being dumped into the same sandbox. This destructive rift was completely unnecessary.

Without rebalancing, Dragon's End will continue to fail and is destined to eventually become like Triple Trouble, Serpent's Ire, and other previous attempts to bring instanced coordination and difficulty to the open world. How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man ArenaNet?

yeah,

 

i remember that Serpents Ire, theres ppl doing it when launched, because was a new thing, so in the first 3~4 months, i can fill up a squad, putting on lfg 30 mins before.. but later become so dead, that even nerf+improved reward's dont ressurrected it. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

5 hours ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

This event still has a huge fail rate (I'd say about 90% chance to fail even with an organized squad), and you can almost always tell if it's a fail in the first 5 minutes of the fight. It has a lot to do with the DPS getting into the green phase as fast as possible at the beginning, and doing every single mechanic correctly and on time. Regular groups probably will not succeed unless they get a lucky run.

 

My only 2 wins on this meta were back-to-back, the 1st group was everything I said it needs, and it felt like a win the entire run. We had 6 minutes to spare. The 2nd time I thought it was going to fail, but we had just enough DPS/good mechanic timing to beat it with around 2 minutes left.

 

Every run since has failed, even with organized maps/squads. I've even run into a new problem; I don't see many maps attempting the meta anymore, they don't even touch the escort to get it moving, and one map I was in failed at the final 5 crystal event because people weren't coordinating and didn't get them all topped up in time.

 

The recent attempt I was a part of, the beginning looked good but with under 15 minutes left I knew we didn't have the DPS and it ended up failing at the final mini boss stage. I sat on the airship waypoint with another player and just watched the fight as the timer ran down, not much to do since it was a guaranteed fail.

 

This fight still needs tweaks, or at the very least 5 more minutes to the timer, or pause the timer during the mini boss phase.

im doing it, in a dedicated guild.

in other words, its already reaching "raid style"/exclusivity in less 3 months, where only dedicated training guils will able to do it.

the next step will be groups selling kills on LFG,, lmao.

Edited March 29, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Veprovina.4876]

7 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

There's been a lot of really crappy things said on all sides of this issue but calling for people to lose their jobs is a level of toxicity that is considered out of bounds even on the GW2 reddit.

This has gone far beyond feedback or discussion.

 

Yeah, cause i was super serious and Anet is going to listen to me right? 🤦‍♂️

Take a breather and relax. It's just a matter of speech...

Ever heard of hyperbole for effect?

It's just as toxic accusing everyone and everything you don't understand of toxicity.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Veprovina.4876

[titje.2745]

9 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Whoever decided that, you need to do at least 10 preevents - with a full squad - before the meta even starts in order to be able to even challange the boss needs to be fired. That's just bad design. You're forcing players to spend at least an hour or 2 before the meta starts in order to have a chance at the meta. And then, the preevents start, so you do another half hour of that (seriously?), and only then do you get a chance at a boss that has no real business being an open world boss. 

I don't mind her mechanics that much, but you're expecting way too much coordination and time investment out of way too much people. This stuff works in raids where you need 10 people to get their kitten together. Forcing 50 open worlders to not only do raid rotations but also start at a fresh map, then reward nothing worth the 3 hour investment if it succeds, and nothing if it fails is just baffling...

 

But i went in more detail in another thread. Still... Can't help but rant at the bad design.

I mean, even in Dragon's Stand you could join in later, and still kill the boss, you weren't a burden if you didn't have your 10 stacks of DPS juice on you that you farmed for an hour before Dragon's stand even starts.

 

I get that it's the last last boss and needs to be epic, but that's not the way to do it.

In dragon stand you atleast can open a bunch of chests. You describe it perfectly what DE is. I once had a organized map. And what you think? Yes it crashed. What a trash map. And the rain at the boss drops ppl fps much (I think) back then played crysis 3 with an gtx 780ti. And the map with rain gave very low fps. And yes I had an old amd cpu. 
 

and the biggest problem I think is, ppl are playing the new elite spec where they worked for in the previous 3 maps. And test it at the end boss. I have said this many times before. 
ppl are not used to their new spec. 

[LucianDK.8615]

11 minutes ago, titje.2745 said:

In dragon stand you atleast can open a bunch of chests. You describe it perfectly what DE is. I once had a organized map. And what you think? Yes it crashed. What a trash map. And the rain at the boss drops ppl fps much (I think) back then played crysis 3 with an gtx 780ti. And the map with rain gave very low fps. And yes I had an old amd cpu. 
 

and the biggest problem I think is, ppl are playing the new elite spec where they worked for in the previous 3 maps. And test it at the end boss. I have said this many times before. 
ppl are not used to their new spec. 

Or keep getting taken by suprise that they have to actually pay attention. You see way too many completely incapable of paying attention to chat, or watching sidebar/minimap. People should immediately realize that when the tail health bar shows up in the sidebar that they have to move to it asap. That its pointless to keep whacking at the boss until the tail is down due to the defense buff. Though I give theres a rare case of like 1% left for phase, that you might as well keep whacking.

 

Not to forget the preparation phase. Getting protocols and contribution stacked. If i remember right, you get a 20% damage buff for contribution at 10 stacks.  And if all 3 map parts is at high, its a zonewide +5% damage buff.

Yeah, its a no brainer that its a fail if the raid have slacked on contribution, protocols or getting the zones prepared.

Edited March 29, 2022 by LucianDK.8615

[Dralor.3701]

I’m mostly frustrated by the waste of time. If this was something where the boss just popped out and you waste 10min or something on a fail no big deal.

[Veprovina.4876]

20 minutes ago, titje.2745 said:

In dragon stand you atleast can open a bunch of chests. You describe it perfectly what DE is. I once had a organized map. And what you think? Yes it crashed. What a trash map. And the rain at the boss drops ppl fps much (I think) back then played crysis 3 with an gtx 780ti. And the map with rain gave very low fps. And yes I had an old amd cpu. 
 

and the biggest problem I think is, ppl are playing the new elite spec where they worked for in the previous 3 maps. And test it at the end boss. I have said this many times before. 
ppl are not used to their new spec. 

Also, Drizzlewood is kind of a long meta. Especially if you do both south and north. But the rewards are constant, you get your time investment back 10 times! Also, you don't need to be doing events from the start so you can maybe finish the boss, you can join at any time, and it scales pretty great with fewer people. 

 

As for elite specs, yeah, i didn't think about that, but they'll get good at them eventually, the bad design is still bad design.

Ultimately, it's up to anet to decide what they want to do with that meta, but i've already started seeing epic toxicity surrounding it, i can almost picture it, only top raiders are gonna be able to consistently do it, then they'll start kicking out anyone who didn't bring killproof, and it can only go downhill from there. So the rewards, stingy as they are, are going to be reserved for the elite few - in open world no less... 

 

I'm of course exaggerating lol, but doing your fishing, then being told to gtfo the map is kinda the antitheis to the design Anet's been cultivating, and that is friendly cooperation for everyone (yes everyone, not just the elite).

[Tachenon.5270]

Eh, I much prefer the Echovald Wilds meta, which I've seen succeed more often than not even when it seems like there's not enough people involved, but something I've noticed about DE is that often, particularly on low population maps, people will run around together (no squad) doing some of the pre-events and even the first part of the meta even though it's obvious there's not a shiny's chance in a skritt warren of completing it. That's actually kind of fun. Low stress, no pressure. Good times.

[titje.2745]

Some raider on Twitter said he killed the boss before nerf with 2 guilds with mostly raid players. +the best food, best utility, all needed buffs. Top dpssers, best support available. So just raid teams who know their class, know boss mechanics, are used to boss fights. And only 3 minutes left on the timer. An organized team with the best you can get (for this boss)
 

I reacted to his post and gave my opinion. And he said that I was right. This is too hard for pugs. this is enough said. 
 

and now about myself. I played heal scourge in the fight. I do very well in all other fights. My support is good. I revive players. I keep everyone alive. Doing the best I can and the event always succeed. (Other expansions and living seasons bosses) 
but at soo-won it looks like I get confused. I want to do the best I can. But this fight is pure chaos. There is so much where I have to focus on. I am lost. And because I want too much i making mistakes. And i think i am not in the minority here. 
the fight asks too much from players. 
 

and yes because always full maps. And a pre event that takes an hour. It’s not worth for me to come back to this map (except for daily writs)

normal raids, when you fail your team can just respawn and try again. If it fails you change your tactics and try again. But at soo-won when you fail. You have to spend another hour for another chance. Without knowing you would make it to succes. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by titje.2745

[Erise.5614]

8 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

But then there would be no challenge left! The biggest challenge in this meta is beating the timer by playing the mechanics correctly (which includes dealing a decent amount of damage).

This whole expansion is about movement (i.e., dodging AoE) and fight mechanics (CC, boons, etc), as proven by the types of enemies (who are pulling, pushing, constantly placing AoEs) and the update on boons and some of the new elite specs' skills/mechanics.

So ANet clearly wants to teach their average player to improve in combat.

Do you notice a suspicious lack of something in your list?

You didn't list DPS. And it's not really about boons either beyond new elite specs having more opportunity to share boons. 

I'd understand if there was CC phases that needed to succeed. Or if there was the need for everyone to break a personalized bar to allow looting or anything of the sort. 

Such a steep DPS check is unwarranted. It's too much for the player base. It's not taught, you can't fix it while in map and you have no control over who is in your map. It's setting you up for success or failure over an hour in advance without you being able to know or do anything about it. Besides heavy gatekeeping and organization. 

[Zephire.8049]

5 hours ago, zityz.6089 said:

This map makes no sense. On one hand you have people who are out and about fishing, map completion, story, events for MP's achievements Jade farming... and then you have a Meta that requires a full map of people maxed out doing events consistently, prepping and then starting the thing, and some things are locked and unable to do until you complete the meta. 

 

Both of these things do NOT mix together, and is causing a clash between the people who want to do the meta and people who want to just do the map.

The whole thing reminds me a lot of the Josh Strife Hayes video about forced player interaction. The TLDR is different people have different playstyles and different expectations for content, which is fine, but when games force people with opposite playstyles/expectations together it just makes all players unhappy because either they have to do something they don't enjoy, have to interact with people they don't like, or both.

 

 

[Gorem.8104]

6 hours ago, sammokdadd.3602 said:

I don't understand people who complain about how organized groups still fail the meta claiming 90% all time  while I'm here on a  10 wins streak squad that i command daily.....No kp, just quickdps/alacdps and big dps with randoms on EU server. feel free to msg me in game name :Hadi The blight  , to save a spot in my runs.

 

 

So you are actively doing the thing that should not be pushed onto open worlders and getting lucky, your post gives us nothing to the discussion. The meta should not require alx or quickness support, it should not require "big dps carries" in order to win, it should not require RNG going well in order to win. And there is no point to do this meta a second time so saying 10 times is pointless unless you really really care about pointless achievements. 

All it should require is people doing mechanics, and people ARE doing mechanics and are massively failing. They are trying their hardest and failing. They are being forced into joining the squads. Forced to play the game differently then they have played it for nine years. It is not a good thing. It still needs to be nerfed and changed, her health needs to be lowered, the tail should hurt her health total. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

9 hours ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

This fight still needs tweaks, or at the very least 5 more minutes to the timer,

Neither. People stop refusing to learn the fight, and it will get fairly easy.

Edited March 29, 2022 by NorthernRedStar.3054