It's NOT OK to Hard-Lock skins behind BL Chest RNG !!

[RoyalPredator.9163]

Black Lion Statues are a nice touch, yet it's hugely delayed and you still need to open a LOT of chests to get 60 of them.  Really a Lot. 

Yet it's a simple problem with single solution:
Release the skins as straight gem purchase.
 

[Ashantara.8731]

I don't mind skins being locked behind RNG as long as there is always a future alternative to unlock them.

The only real issue I see is that some players live in countries where loot boxes have been banned, so they cannot acquire BLC or keys. (Which, IMO, is a good reason to reconsider the whole model. Why not separate the option of BLC keys purchased for real money vs BLC keys purchased with in-game gold, so that you don't have to completely deactivate them for those countries?)

Anyway, as I said, as long as the skins become available later through other means, it's all good.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

51 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I don't mind skins being locked behind RNG as long as there is always a future alternative to unlock them.

The only real issue I see is that some players live in countries where loot boxes have been banned, so they cannot acquire BLC or keys. (Which, IMO, is a good reason to reconsider the whole model. Why not separate the option of BLC keys purchased for real money vs BLC keys purchased with in-game gold, so that you don't have to completely deactivate them for those countries?)

Anyway, as I said, as long as the skins become available later through other means, it's all good.

I would guess it is because one can purchase Gold with cash.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I would guess it is because one can purchase Gold with cash.

Yes, of course that's the reason, isn't it obvious?

If they blocked that, those countries could still have access to BLCs and keys.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Klowdy.3126]

I got a pair of boots out of a random weekly key run box. It was truly exciting to get something like that randomly.

[Teratus.2859]

On 4/1/2022 at 4:44 PM, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

All the BL-skins will come eventually in the rota~. So don't waste your'e statues on the golden key's, they are just an rng-fest as the normal ones, but way pricy'er.
Sure, you have to wait and be patient this way, but better wait for it, than waste the statues and get nothing.

Also, 30keys are not that much and i don't think its bugged. I personally don't see skifs that often in general. And the drop is really new.

Yea I should have waited, was a pretty big waste.

30 keys may not be much to some people but I make a point of rarely ever buying keys and almost never with actual money.
I prefer to farm them which takes a reasonable amount of time and effort so 30 keys is a lot to me.

Situations like this are exactly why I don't like to use real money on keys, had all these keys been bought with gems paid in cash I'd be kicking myself really hard over this, but thankfully i've some sense of financial self preservation at least XD

The only loss here was a few hundred gold which is a lot to someone like me but it can be replaced over time.. could be replaced in minutes tbh if I go sell a ton of my materials and mystic coins or something but i'm not going to do that.

I'll take your advice with the statuettes though, I always forget about them until I remember the golden keys.

[Rendalmj.3152]

I disagree. As a person who grinds to get what i want, i want it to be blc exclusive because if i get it then it says that i worked harder than other people. I farm gold and buy keys and open chest and repeat. To me the most fun thing about opening blc chest is the surprise factor because you never know what you will get and that is fun for me and other people too.

 

My advice for to get exclusive blc item is just buy or farm gold for keys i do it all the time and its fun. So simple

 

Good luck have fun.

[Freya.9075]

2 hours ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

I disagree. As a person who grinds to get what i want, i want it to be blc exclusive because if i get it then it says that i worked harder than other people. I farm gold and buy keys and open chest and repeat. To me the most fun thing about opening blc chest is the surprise factor because you never know what you will get and that is fun for me and other people too.

 

My advice for to get exclusive blc item is just buy or farm gold for keys i do it all the time and its fun. So simple

 

Good luck have fun.

While I understand you like to grind and make an effort to get exclusive items, RNG is not part of that. Doing collections for legendaries like Aurora or vision or astralaria are items you get for effort made. Black lion chests are not. It’s pure luck based and you can simply buy keys with no effort at all. Black lion exclusives or gem store skins in general does not wow me as when I see items like the examples I gave. 
 

no one will know if you grinded for those items or not. Most players will assume you buy them. 

[robertthebard.8150]

On 3/30/2022 at 12:36 AM, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

The purpose of gacha mechanics is  to entice people to spend more for a desired item.  It's disguised as less, because people  will "try their luck" and a lot of them will be tricked by the Gambler's Fallacy and Sunk-Cost Fallacy.  Sure, some people get lucky, but the average person is likely to spend more than they'd be willing to for that item were the set price even close to what they will end up spending on "chances."

 

ANet gacha are better than most in the gaming industry, but worse than others.  That said, it's a company's business how they package their products.  All we can do is tell them it's a predatory, exploitive practice. 

 

Before you weigh in on that last, here are the definitions, and they do apply.

predatory; adj. - seeking to exploit or oppress others

exploit; verb - make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).

"Make full use of" is clearly present, as the goal is as stated above -- to have people pay more for an item than they would without the "trick."  ANet clearly derives benefit..  Since exploit applies, and "predatory" requires that there be exploitation or oppression, predatory applies.

Well, we can certainly take that definition of exploit to extremes.  Do you return your paychecks on payday, or do you continue to exploit your employer?  That paycheck is, after all, derived from a resource, your employer's money.  Based on that, your employment is also predatory, right?  Does your boss know?

I can't remember if I've ever bought a key to open chests.  I know I haven't purchased any chests; they seem to be cyclic, but when they're on, they drop like candy.  So, I'm certainly not oppressed if I don't purchase any, or feeling any pressure to purchase any.  It's a choice, to spend or not to spend.  If one chooses to spend, they made a conscious decision to do so.  The game can be played, quite successfully w/out purchasing any keys at all.

"But gambling addicts" need to find professional help, that likely isn't available in game, or on the forums.  This is what family is for.  "But little Jonny spent 10k on their parent's card", how did they get the card?  If parents are letting an MMO and a credit card babysit, then maybe they'll learn to pay more attention to what their child is up to.  "But they specifically target these people" needs to be supported with some sample emails showing that this targeting is taking place, instead of the usual copout argument, because, as I said, I can't remember ever buying any keys, and I'm certainly not getting emails insisting that I need to.

This to say, yet again, that I want less government interference in my day to day, not more.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

On 4/3/2022 at 3:06 PM, robertthebard.8150 said:

Well, we can certainly take that definition of exploit to extremes.  Do you return your paychecks on payday, or do you continue to exploit your employer?  That paycheck is, after all, derived from a resource, your employer's money.  Based on that, your employment is also predatory, right?  Does your boss know?

You missed the key point.  My employer was not being tricked to pay me for more than it was willing to pay.

Quote

I can't remember if I've ever bought a key to open chests.  I know I haven't purchased any chests; they seem to be cyclic, but when they're on, they drop like candy.  So, I'm certainly not oppressed if I don't purchase any, or feeling any pressure to purchase any.  It's a choice, to spend or not to spend.  If one chooses to spend, they made a conscious decision to do so.  The game can be played, quite successfully w/out purchasing any keys at all.

I am asserting no oppression, just exploitation.  Key definition (again).  Gacha are designed to trick people into paying more than they would if they knew the final cost up front.

Quote

"But gambling addicts" need to find professional help, that likely isn't available in game, or on the forums.  This is what family is for.  "But little Jonny spent 10k on their parent's card", how did they get the card?  If parents are letting an MMO and a credit card babysit, then maybe they'll learn to pay more attention to what their child is up to.

No argument from me against parental responsibility.  However, the dopamine response is well documented in relation to the anticipation that is likely to accompany activities like roulette -- or opening a gacha.  Dopamine can be addictive.  Just look at all the literature about sweets (also a dopamine trigger) and obesity.

"But they specifically target these people" needs to be supported with some sample emails showing that this targeting is taking place, instead of the usual copout argument, because, as I said, I can't remember ever buying any keys, and I'm certainly not getting emails insisting that I need to.

I didn't argue for "targeting," just "making full use of and deriving a benefit from.

Quote

This to say, yet again, that I want less government interference in my day to day, not more.

There has to be some government oversight of business.  While I generally agree, humans are born selfish (show me an unselfish baby to disprove) and most businesses exist to make as much money as possible, with some not caring about presenting value for money.

Edited April 5, 2022 by IndigoSundown.5419
Fat-fingered post before done.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Save 60 statuettes for when it is put in the rotation in about 3 months

[Arnox.5128]

On 4/3/2022 at 10:59 AM, Rendalmj.3152 said:

As a person who grinds to get what i want

This is not the game for you. GW2 should NOT be about grinding your kitten off, and I don't give a **** what anyone says. Yes, there is grinding in the game already. No, we shouldn't encourage it any further. There are SOOOO MANY Korean-styled MMOs out there. If you want that gameplay then go play one of those games. Stop trying to pollute the only place we have left to escape these awful mechanics. Thank you.

BLC-exclusive skins should not be a thing. They should be in the store directly or earnable in-game. And no, rolling RNG in the game is NOT a good way for people in Guild Wars to earn something. Cash or skill. That's what the two possible requirements should be. Not grinding and/or RNG.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Arnox.5128

[Rendalmj.3152]

5 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

This is not the game for you. GW2 should NOT be about grinding your kitten off, and I don't give a **** what anyone says. Yes, there is grinding in the game already. No, we shouldn't encourage it any further. There are SOOOO MANY Korean-styled MMOs out there. If you want that gameplay then go play one of those games. Stop trying to pollute the only place we have left to escape these awful mechanics. Thank you.

BLC-exclusive skins should not be a thing. They should be in the store directly or earnable in-game. And no, rolling RNG in the game is NOT a good way for people in Guild Wars to earn something. Cash or skill. That's what the two possible requirements should be. Not grinding and/or RNG.

 

So youre telling me that i should use real money to buy something i want in gemstore rather than GRIND and FARM gold? 🤣

 

I played Guild Wars 2 for 6 years, grind farm gold never used real money to buy what i want from gemstore. Sorry for you buddy im going to keep playing the game and enjoy. 

 

BLC exclusive skins is good for the game, if you are me farm gild everyday. Means i work more than you to earn thar exclusive skins.

 

 

[robertthebard.8150]

On 4/5/2022 at 4:37 PM, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

You missed the key point.  My employer was not being tricked to pay me for more than it was willing to pay.

I am asserting no oppression, just exploitation.  Key definition (again).  Gacha are designed to trick people into paying more than they would if they knew the final cost up front.

I didn't argue for "targeting," just "making full use of and deriving a benefit from.

There has to be some government oversight of business.  While I generally agree, humans are born selfish (show me an unselfish baby to disprove) and most businesses exist to make as much money as possible, with some not caring about presenting value for money.

I literally used the definitions you provided, and oppression is in them.  Laws don't just "protect" the "victims", they adversely affect people that don't mind buying the keys.  There are a few threads on these forums complaining about things similar to this, one of which has to do with mount skin boxes not being available in Belgium.  Enough people said "there ought to be a law", and now there is, and they can't purchase a product that is guaranteed to give them something they don't have, even if it's not the one they're hoping for.

I don't mess with them because I like to know exactly what I'm getting when I buy something.  I'm not looking for the government, or a government, to protect me from them, I don't need it.  Where does government interference stop?  People are addicted to coffee, is that next?  Tobacco?  I know my state made it illegal to smoke indoors in public places, and yet, they didn't lower their taxation on the product...  At some point, it is on the consumer, or those close to them, to deal with their issues.  It should never be up to the government.  Ronald Reagan said it better than anyone I've heard:  "the scariest 9 words in the English language:  I'm from the government, and I'm here to help".

[patton the great.7126]

I don't see an issue. If you want the skin ACT NOW! You too can be the proud owner of useless skins and accessories! Or get over it and move on. I'm totally in favor of this kind of monetization. It's not pay to win, it's pay to look different. Acceptable and encouraging to hear!

[Arnox.5128]

13 minutes ago, Rendalmj.3152 said:

So youre telling me that i should use real money to buy something i want in gemstore rather than GRIND and FARM gold?

If you want, you can grind, but the point is that there is an OPTION to just get the item immediately (assuming the price is reasonable). In an ideal world, GW2 wouldn't even HAVE a cash shop at all, but servers aren't free and MMO maintenance alone is hella expensive, so the cash shop is a necessary evil.

Lootboxes are not.

[Izzy.2951]

Well since a lot of people (including me) are buying tons of stuff from Gemstore for FREE with gold, i dont see a problem in locking skins behind BL chest for wales to get profit, its something other companies do too. I mean you cant expect everything for free literally.

In other games you cannot get like 90% of the gemstuff with gold, and im not saying like grinding 14 hours a day... really fast tbh.

If you actually see Arenanet earnings last 3 years for example, you can see a LOT of their money comes from Gems not expansions. To a point that expansion are more focused on mantaining/getting players and adding features to the game, than to purely sustain the company.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Cyprien.4208]

Random Chance mechanics mean the person who made the items/skins knows that item/skin is useless or awful. If you really thought that the item you made was of quality or worth it to the player to buy you wouldn't need random chance mechanics to sell it.
 

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Well since a lot of people (including me) are buying tons of stuff from Gemstore for FREE with gold, i dont see a problem in locking skins behind BL chest for wales to get profit, its something other companies do too. I mean you cant expect everything for free literally.

In other games you cannot get like 90% of the gemstuff with gold, and im not saying like grinding 14 hours a day... really fast tbh.

If you actually see Arenanet earnings last 3 years for example, you can see a LOT of their money comes from Gems not expansions. To a point that expansion are more focused on mantaining/getting players and adding features to the game, than to purely sustain the company.

First of all, you're NOT buying the stuff for free. You're buying it with someone else's cash. Someone paid real money for the gems you're spending. That's how the gold-gem exchange works.

Second, no one asks for everything to be free. No one even asked for this particular skin to be free.

You're arguing that a lot of ANet's revenue comes from the gemstore, but I don't see anyone arguing against the gemstore either. Who are you arguing against?

The only thing that's being criticized here is making items exclusive to loot boxes. Just because other scampanies use loot boxes does not make using them ok.

[Doggie.3184]

You can't beat RNG by throwing more chances at it, you literally just need to be chosen by fate to receive it and you'll get it in a few tries if you're a chosen one, otherwise I never go out of my way as it's just not worth the risk.

Just do your keyfarming and maps and enjoy the game. If you don't get it in a few keys then it's not meant to be and you'll need to use statues in future so try not to go overboard. I don't support gambling and avoid putting money towards it~ rather skip the jerk-around and buy things directly. If I don't get something from the free keys I get in-game then oh well. I have like 200 statues left from drops/maps/keyfarm weekly/bday gifts over the years.

I'm actually surprised BL Chest still exist in this game but it's probably because you can get keys with gold or farming and statuettes exist. They're much worse in other MMOs and been banned from many which is why a lot of games were forced to invent and move to the sleazy 'Paid Battle Pass' system instead where you pay them money for the privilege to do work/chores/grind for the item you want to buy... Yeah it could be much worse so be thankful for that at least, lol.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If there were no Black Lion Chests/Keys (which are a good source of revenue), I wonder how many Gems each item in the Gem Store would cost.  I mean, ArenaNet would have to make up the loss of Gem Store revenue some way, no?  Players already think prices for things like Mount Skins and individual Armor pieces are sky-high.  🤷‍♂️

[Blur.3465]

I agree.
I just spent 35 dollars on 25 keys in hope to get the new skiff skin... and after not getting it, I feel horrible T_T I just know I won't be doing this ever again. 
Not a single rare skin from 25 chests, it was all common stuff with wardrobe unlocks and dyes. Never had worse luck in my life. 

I wish there was at least some...insurance that if you don't get the item you want from 25 keys, you can purchase it with GUARANTEED currency that will DROP from chests and make you pick an item of your liking.
Statuettes are a nice touch, but you can't buy majority of things you WANT with them.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Blur.3465

[Scratchpaw.1069]

On 3/30/2022 at 6:55 AM, Freya.9075 said:

It can be frustrating since it’s RNG, but save your statuettes. They tend to make them available with statuettes after a while. 

We hardly even get those in Belgium because of anti-lootbox laws. In other words, this skin is almost unobtainable for people in anti-lootbox regions. 

[Freya.9075]

2 hours ago, Scratchpaw.1069 said:

We hardly even get those in Belgium because of anti-lootbox laws. In other words, this skin is almost unobtainable for people in anti-lootbox regions. 

And that is something anet should change. Adding them as items to buy for gems would be a good addition. It doesn’t seem like they will any time soon though sadly. Or they could make them tradable like permanent contracts. so ppl could buy them with gold there. It’s not fair for players to get excluded like that. 

[Zephyr.5382]

On 4/3/2022 at 9:59 AM, Rendalmj.3152 said:

I disagree. As a person who grinds to get what i want, i want it to be blc exclusive because if i get it then it says that i worked harder than other people. I farm gold and buy keys and open chest and repeat. To me the most fun thing about opening blc chest is the surprise factor because you never know what you will get and that is fun for me and other people too.

 

My advice for to get exclusive blc item is just buy or farm gold for keys i do it all the time and its fun. So simple

 

Good luck have fun.

Did you really equate a blessing from RNGesus to prestige?