Core mesmer skills 6-10 are garbage and need to be redone

[rune.9572]

Other classes:

 

thousand boons on 20s cd

free conditions on every utility

busted group support

10 different CC

actually meaningful elite

 

Mesmer:

 

eyeyeyeeee clone go taunt 

tWo sTacKs of ConFuSioN

3s stability crowd goes wild

feedback too stonk, better increase cd

domination signet lmao

tImE wArPfff

 

Other classes' roles:

 

condi alac dps

power alac dps

condi quick dps

heal dps

dps

heal

support

 

Mesmer roles:

dps

alac dps oops, that's renegade, ignore

support

 

OMEGALUL

Edited March 31, 2022 by rune.9572

[Levetty.1279]

To get the equivalent of Mechanists shift signet Mesmer has to take

Duelling for phantasm fury.

Chronomancer for Time Marches on or a rune with 25% speed buff

Blink

Mantra of resolve.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

People have been using the same skills almost since the game came out, just trading decoy for SoM.

Blink, SoM, insert 3rd utility just to fill and a garbage elite (moa might be alright now, haven't tried it yet). 

Better said, mes have been using the same builds since the game came out. 

Same build, same combos, same utilities. 

[rune.9572]

Moa signet is just a meme to troll peolpe in wvw and maybe kill mechanists and minionmancers. XD

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility 750 CC damage, 120s cd, 1 target, 20% reduced incoming hard CC (now you can get stunlocked 20% faster)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surge_of_the_Mists 1350 CC damage (!!!), 20s cd, 3 targets, 1s evade lmao

Mesmer elite skill is literally WORSE in every aspect than a weapon skill. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by rune.9572

[Zenith.7301]

2 hours ago, rune.9572 said:

Moa signet is just a meme to troll peolpe in wvw and maybe kill mechanists and minionmancers. XD

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility 750 CC damage, 120s cd, 1 target, 20% reduced incoming hard CC (now you can get stunlocked 20% faster)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surge_of_the_Mists 1350 CC damage (!!!), 20s cd, 3 targets, 1s evade lmao

Mesmer elite skill is literally WORSE in every aspect than a weapon skill. 

 

 

Surge of the Mist ties you to a non-DPS support weapon for 10 seconds, it's not a trivial cost for DPS revs.

 

A more apt comparison is Basilisk Venom, an elite on a 40 sec cd that does 750 CC damage, or the Willbender Elite,  Heaven's Palm, 550 CC damage at 45 sec cd.

[crazyhusky.2985]

What about some suggestions to improve base Mesmar's skills?

Which skills to replace to or redo.

For instance - Replace Phanstamal Defender with a new skill Phanstamal Hazer.

" Summon that clone takes up to 5 your exisiting conditions, cleansing them from you and strikes foes inflicting them with confusion and the conditions, Strike power is increased the more conditions it takes from you." (it always inflicts confusion, even if it doesn't take any conditions from you.)

 

[Veprovina.4876]

Harbinger grandmaster trait - pulse quickness while in shroud, meaning, you can permanenlty grant quickness in full viper's while doing DPS

Virtuoso grandmaster trait - stock blades a bit faster....

[SkinnyT.5382]

I don't want to say all of them needs to be redone, but a good 90% could be changed. Illusions of life? Has anyone ever successfully used this skill? And the thing is that it could be a really helpful and powerful skills if it just didn't send you back to downed state WITH a penalty if you failed to kill an enemy. So for example it could rez people with say 100% health but drop them down to 25 if they failed to kill and enemy (or whatever health % if may be) within  a time frame. Killing them if they end up downed within that time frame.
Mimic would be much cooler if it let you copy a skill from the enemy instead. In fact back in GW1 you could copy a target's elite skill. How fun would that be in here? We could take Signet of Humility call it Signet of Mimicry, but change it so you steal other's elites. Or because of how some of the elites work, the signet could mimic a random elite from the enemy's profession. That way it's limited to skills the mesmer could actually use. How cool and disorienting it would be to have a mesmer all of a sudden drop Winds of Disenchantment, or summon 3 thieves, or take on a Leech form?

[Salt Mode.3780]

Truth be told signet of mimicry sounds amazing, but another thing that could work is Signet of Iboga where you literally put the Iboga hallucination effect on your enemy.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:38 PM, SkinnyT.5382 said:

I don't want to say all of them needs to be redone, but a good 90% could be changed. Illusions of life? Has anyone ever successfully used this skill? And the thing is that it could be a really helpful and powerful skills if it just didn't send you back to downed state WITH a penalty if you failed to kill an enemy. So for example it could rez people with say 100% health but drop them down to 25 if they failed to kill and enemy (or whatever health % if may be) within  a time frame. Killing them if they end up downed within that time frame.
Mimic would be much cooler if it let you copy a skill from the enemy instead. In fact back in GW1 you could copy a target's elite skill. How fun would that be in here? We could take Signet of Humility call it Signet of Mimicry, but change it so you steal other's elites. Or because of how some of the elites work, the signet could mimic a random elite from the enemy's profession. That way it's limited to skills the mesmer could actually use. How cool and disorienting it would be to have a mesmer all of a sudden drop Winds of Disenchantment, or summon 3 thieves, or take on a Leech form?

Mimic used to copy projectiles. You would block a projectile and store it, then shoot it back with echo. Got changed in 2015.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:58 PM, rune.9572 said:

Mesmer roles:

dps

alac dps oops, that's renegade, ignore

support

 

OMEGALUL

Not sure if you know about 

This is basically RR ren but mesmer version which also provides might.

Some mesmer utils need buffs some are fine. Most (all?) support utilities exist on guardian but better. Happens when most devs main guardian. 

Compared to ele mesmer offers great utility. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Mell.4873]

I could not disagree more, most if not all utilities have a purpose. They might not be as powerful some other classes but the general Mesmer kit is so strong it doesn't mater.

Glamour: Most are WvW or avoiding mechanic tools. For example Feedback has a tiny cooldown for basically a free 30% downed heal and this normally gives them time to self rez.

Clone/Phantasm: Makes clones so massive damage buff. For example some people might bash Phantasmal Defender but its an OP CC and the longest lasting taunt in the game when pared with Chronomancer, not to mention you can cast it like 3 times in a row.

Manipulation: Is a mix of damage avoidance and utility. For example Mimic works well with lots of skills and Illusion of Life is a free group resurrect what's not to like here.

Mantra: Mix of damage, CC, support and healing. For example this can create on of the most traditional healer in the game, its impossible to play but you can in theory heal someone to full on a moments notice.
(Trust me I have tried to Strike heal with it and found it hard)

Signets: Do I need to say more, these are so OP every condition or support spec picks at least 2 of them as their utilities. Not just for the amazing passive but there active effects are exactly what you want to see for a signet. For example Signet of Domination can provide a 300 break bar equivalent to F3 shatter and Signet of Midnight is a Stun break with the added bonus of stealth.

[Salt Mode.3780]

11 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I could not disagree more, most if not all utilities have a purpose. They might not be as powerful some other classes but the general Mesmer kit is so strong it doesn't mater.

Glamour: Most are WvW or avoiding mechanic tools. For example Feedback has a tiny cooldown for basically a free 30% downed heal and this normally gives them time to self rez.

Clone/Phantasm: Makes clones so massive damage buff. For example some people might bash Phantasmal Defender but its an OP CC and the longest lasting taunt in the game when pared with Chronomancer, not to mention you can cast it like 3 times in a row.

Manipulation: Is a mix of damage avoidance and utility. For example Mimic works well with lots of skills and Illusion of Life is a free group resurrect what's not to like here.

Mantra: Mix of damage, CC, support and healing. For example this can create on of the most traditional healer in the game, its impossible to play but you can in theory heal someone to full on a moments notice.
(Trust me I have tried to Strike heal with it and found it hard)

Signets: Do I need to say more, these are so OP every condition or support spec picks at least 2 of them as their utilities. Not just for the amazing passive but there active effects are exactly what you want to see for a signet. For example Signet of Domination can provide a 300 break bar equivalent to F3 shatter and Signet of Midnight is a Stun break with the added bonus of stealth.

Literally untrue you know how many e-spec utilities are unused?

You know how many core utilities are unused due to nerfs?

Again you dont play mesmer enough to know this and there is ample evidence of you saying this so please just stop.

Especially in competitive play even more so are utilities funneled to a even more narrow selection. In all mesmer builds require blink.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Literally untrue you know how many e-spec utilities are unused?

You know how many core utilities are unused due to nerfs?

Again you dont play mesmer enough to know this and there is ample evidence of you saying this so please just stop.

Especially in competitive play even more so are utilities funneled to a even more narrow selection. In all mesmer builds require blink.

I think it's the opposite I play it to much so I have ended up finding a use for all the utilities. I mean I don't use the blink much since I barely PvP with Mesmer (sometimes WvW or unranked).  If you want to talk about dead mesmer utilities then Chrono Wells and Mirage deceptions are pretty useless but core mesmer is fine. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Going to disagree with the OP on this one.  My primary raiding toon was the mesmer because it has the widest toolbox in the game.  Ignoring the weapon skills, shatters and traits, the utilities include: Boon rips, reflects, portal, group stability, group cleanse, strong CC, stealth, blink, AoE rez, as well as damage boosting options for when I don't need any of those.  That's just core; the specializations give meaningful boons, a bunch of mobility + evasion skills, and a long-duration immobilize.

I'd love to have that kind of utility on professions like the Ele, Revenant, and Warrior.  I once remarked in an ele thread that all of their utilities could be summed up to be the Mesmer Mantras, Distortion and Blink.  Or rather, look at the Virtuoso's utilities, take away the immobilize, and that is all the ele really has.  Put the immobilize back, and that is all that warriors have (and banners).  Heck even though revenants get two sets of utility skills, and they still don't have the kind of tools that core mesmer comes with.  Shiro is damage and mobility, Jalis is the Virtuoso package without immobilize, Mallyx is boon rip and condi cleanse, Ventari is a non-reflecting bubble. 

If I were to look at all of the professions, the ones with the closest amount of diversity in their utilities are Guardian and Thief, which do a lot of the same but also some stuff that is different.  Unless you specifically need something like blinds or aegis, Mesmer is going to have the tools needed for just about any encounter.  

[godfat.2604]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Glamour: Most are WvW or avoiding mechanic tools. For example Feedback has a tiny cooldown for basically a free 30% downed heal and this normally gives them time to self rez.

In WvW, Medic’s Feedback only revive 1% per pulse, therefore just 6% in total, not 30% like in PvE: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Medic's_Feedback

[Mell.4873]

29 minutes ago, godfat.2604 said:

In WvW, Medic’s Feedback only revive 1% per pulse, therefore just 6% in total, not 30% like in PvE: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Medic's_Feedback

I obviously meant PvE since I mentioned 30% but feedback is still valuable in WvW where ranged attacks are so common

[Urphen.2857]

11 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I think it's the opposite I play it to much so I have ended up finding a use for all the utilities. I mean I don't use the blink much since I barely PvP with Mesmer (sometimes WvW or unranked).  If you want to talk about dead mesmer utilities then Chrono Wells and Mirage deceptions are pretty useless but core mesmer is fine. 

It's funny because you said you don't use mesmer in pvp, you don't play raids, so based on the things you are saying you only play it on open world and low tier fracs, but still you claim you know everything and disagree with everything what experienced mesmers says.

You are doing more damage than being helpful so I have to agree with @Salt Mode.3780 you should stop with this bs

[Xaylin.1860]

I think OP is being a bit dramatic but in the end it's true. Mesmer skills were unique in the past but no longer are. You can always find uses for skills if you look hard enough - looking at you Mell. However, in most cases and for specific roles Mesmer Utilities have had the same BiS for years. Which tells a lot regardless of how powerful they are when compared to other classes. They 👏 are 👏 not 👏 good 👏 enough 👏. Neither are the traits aside from Blurred Inscriptions.

 

I think one core structual issue is that many effects overlap too much (e.g. Decoy vs. MoM). Since Mantras were reworked, Signets are basically the only skills with (relevant) unique effects for the Mesmer. Most other skills can be substituted which leaves the less efficient ones in the dust. Going further down the road of overlaps: For area effects like Glamours and Wells it has become worse with yet another addition on Virtuoso. Deceptions had huge overlap with Manipulations and Illusions from the start.

 

The second structural issue I have also recently mentioned in a different thread: It's not good to have 3 out of 5 core Utility groups stuck in Inspiration (with Illusions not really having on, to be honest). There is no room for diversification this way. And I can't think of any other class with a comparable set up. It's just... bad.

 

I'm really hoping for a pre HoT line rework - maybe while Season 1 is reintroduced - and ANet making up their mind what they want certain Utility groups to achieve on Mesmer.

[Obtena.7952]

Don't really see a problem here. They aren't 'garbage' that's for sure. Being sensational isn't a compelling argument.

1. The coverage the Mesmer utilities is large so if you know your encounters, you can take appropriate utilities for it

2. There are also some 'not-specialized' utilities that are going to be good go-to choices for general purposes as well

3. There is a good balance of each so you rarely pick a 'filler' utility

How is a situation like this a problem? I could only wish for situations like this on other classes where gaps in the toolsets have significant impacts on gameplay. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[viquing.8254]

In PvP :

- I don't use decoy since the cd nerf and the rework of midnight.

- I don't use phantasmal defender since the rework.

- I don't use phantasmal disenchanter since the nerf post rework (and the lose of condi clear.).

- I don't use glamour since the trait removal. (apart testing builds.).

- I don't use portal since the nerf.

- I don't use arcane thievery since the nerf. (Make it face your target at last...).

- I barely use Illusion of Life.

- I don't use mimic.

- The only two mantra I used are distraction and resolve.

- I don't use signet of domination.

- I don't use Signet of inspiration since the rework and multiples nerfs.

- I don't use time warp since the nerf.

- I don't use mantra of recovery.

- I don't use any wells apart gravity.

- I never use cristal sands.

- I never use sand through glass.

 

Now tell me in which situation I should use them because for me they are clearly gargabe and were for ages for most of them.

Edited April 2, 2022 by viquing.8254

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, viquing.8254 said:

In PvP :

- I don't use decoy since the cd nerf and the rework of midnight.

- I don't use phantasmal defender since the rework.

- I don't use phantasmal disenchanter since the nerf post rework (and the lose of condi clear.).

- I don't use glamour since the trait removal. (apart testing builds.).

- I don't use portal since the nerf.

- I don't use arcane thievery since the nerf. (Make it face your target at last...).

- I barely use Illusion of Life.

- I don't use mimic.

- The only two mantra I used are distraction and resolve.

- I don't use signet of domination.

- I don't use Signet of inspiration since the rework and multiples nerfs.

- I don't use time warp since the nerf.

- I don't use mantra of recovery.

- I don't use any wells apart gravity.

- I never use cristal sands.

- I never use sand through glass.

 

Now tell me in which situation I should use them because for me they are clearly gargabe and were for ages for most of them.

A bit weird take. We have 5 slots for utilities. Do you or do you not have enough choices in utilities relevant for your PVP builds? Just because you never use some of them in PVP does not mean we have a problem here. Every utility is garbage for PVP? I doubt it.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, Urphen.2857 said:

It's funny because you said you don't use mesmer in pvp, you don't play raids, so based on the things you are saying you only play it on open world and low tier fracs, but still you claim you know everything and disagree with everything what experienced mesmers says.

You are doing more damage than being helpful so I have to agree with @Salt Mode.3780 you should stop with this bs

I do play t4 and CM, I mean 80% of the game is PvE so I do play Mesmer for most content.
Honestly for PvP I just don't have time to learn the muscle memory to play it. When I first started playing Mesmer I did spend the time but that was over 2 years ago. Another issue is I play high gold/play at the level of the top 400 players so learning  a new spec even if its my main is impossible unless i want to drop to low gold.

PS Ranger was my main before Mesmer so I'm way better at that.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

In PvP :

Now tell me in which situation I should use them because for me they are clearly gargabe and were for ages for most of them.

Only a small part of the game is PvP and the OP clearly meant PvE (maybe WvW too). Sounds like you should play another class since you don't like any of the utilities.

[viquing.8254]

9 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Only a small part of the game is PvP and the OP clearly meant PvE (maybe WvW too). Sounds like you should play another class since you don't like any of the utilities.

Where did the OP state it was about PvE ? And the biggest par of PvE is open world in which everything work...

I hate rerolling in MMORPG I'm the kind of player who spend 6 months choosing a main, then didn't swap.

But despite that, I had to swap to other classes occasionally because of how bad mes was thoses last years...

 

It's not that I don't like utilities, it's that they have been destroyed to be dead... And never balanced for somes.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by viquing.8254