Why are basic group features locked behind a 300g + forced WvW participation purchase?

[Peterson.5172]

(as someone who spent 300g on the tag) some of the functions are quite basic and should be available as a standard

make some of the tag functions available to all squads by making a 10 person squad leader (ready check + move people and maybe + kick)

but not have the tag itself available shown on open maps (maybe show within squad/lfg)

 

 

[Hesione.9412]

25 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

It's been stated the Commander Tags are needed for Strikes and Raids. How many 'subs' are needed in 10-player groups?  How small are these 'subs'?

I can't work out the context for the request. And there seems to be a lot of focus on wanting to easily kick people out of the squad, which has my eyebrow raised.

[Fuchslein.8639]

23 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

I can't work out the context for the request. And there seems to be a lot of focus on wanting to easily kick people out of the squad, which has my eyebrow raised.

And where is this Focus on kicking people you are talking about?

You don't need a commie to kick people. But you need one for sorting and markers to help people.

I know it's hard to believe that the World isn't just Black and White....

Edited April 4, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Farohna.6247]

You save up, you earn that cat in your home instance.  I did.  Now they squabble every day like forum posters while I harvest nodes.  

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

I have no real oppinion except that the statement made several times about WvW is a false one.

As someone already mentioned before: you can get your badges of honor from achievement chests as well. Meaning you can get the currency without stepping 1 foot into World vs World. By the time most new players are considering a tag, they likely have enough badges already from achievements.

When I say without 1 foot, I mean this litterly: once you obtain the currency from achievements, you can go to a merchant in Lion's Arch, Divinity's reach, Hoelbrak or Black Citadel.

Heck these days you technically don't even need to step foot in WvW anymore if you really want the catmander and refuse to go to the borderlands: Get yourself an Armistice Bastion pass and do the JP in there.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Tuna Bandit.3786

[Khisanth.2948]

2 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

There are normally two sub-groups for raids and strikes, so that everyone get its buff. But i know the hassle asking people to move themself. Most don't even read the Chat.

Now we are in the "what if my teammates are a bunch of clowns?" territory because you are talking about people who join group based content and then ignore the group.

Also if people aren't bothering to pay attention to their group what are the chances that they will magically start moving into appropriate places just because someone put down some markers? Are they some sort of bot?

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And where is this Focus on kicking people you are talking about?

You don't need a commie to kick people. But you need one for sorting and markers to help people.

I know it's hard to believe that the World isn't just Black and White....

Read the OP's other posts in this thread.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Khisanth.2948

[Lucifers Heaven.2167]

14 hours ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

"You don't need to pay money for basic ready check/player movement/party organization/ground markers in any other game." 

  

"No other MMO on the planet gatekeeps basic grouping features" 

Lol

*glances over at one of the other top MMOs in the world*

FFXIV requires you to pay real money, on a repeating basis, to gain access to the ability to form parties... 

 

Having said that, while I do have my commander tag, and I do think having a solid bit of price is good, I do think the price is more than it needs to be. 

I'd be happy with them moving it back to 100g but for account wide. And maybe allowing some of the functionality to raid/strike groups when in instances or something. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

58 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Now we are in the "what if my teammates are a bunch of clowns?" territory because you are talking about people who join group based content and then ignore the group.

Also if people aren't bothering to pay attention to their group what are the chances that they will magically start moving into appropriate places just because someone put down some markers? Are they some sort of bot?

Read the OP's other posts in this thread.

The thing is, not everyone does this on purpose.
Because, lets be real for a minute, pls, most people who form Groups for Raids and Strikes, are People with the Tag. At least this is my and my friends experience. Of course, we don't have numbers, if someone ask, but i bet, when you ask People in GW2 everyone will say this.
I even read comments saying, if the group is not opened by a commander, they do not join. And also this must have nothing to do with the fact that these people are "clowns". It's just convenience.
And a lot of people, know the Boss, but because, they didn't need to do this, have no clue how they move themself. Even if it's easy for you and me, this does not aplly to everyone.

I myself often ignore the group chat, because most times it's just trash talk. BECAUSE, i only see Commie tag up for Group-content.

The times i did form groups, where i didn't had a commie, sure, where often pure comedic clown fiestas. I'll try to phrase all of this nicely. But some people are just ... dense and that without malicious intent and still deliver the most necessary in the end.
This to a point, where even now, while i have the commie, i don't run with pugs. I just don't have the patience for this.

 

So its true, as other said here. People say(not only raiders) form your'e own group. But in some content, it isn't even possible because the chances that you get people to join whitout a tag is really low often.
Heck, even in OW i see people asking for Commies even when there are apples who try to help ...
Anet createt a Community which depends on guidance, but the expensive one.

 

And yeah, i know, the OP was exaggerating. But, correct me if I'm blind. I only see them mention kicking once. Everyone else is talking about sorting groups and setting markers. So to say that the focus of this discussion is to kick people is just gaslighting.

 

I mean, sure, its mostly a people thing. But would it be to hard to move the sorting and marker things so, that everyone could use them? Where would be the dmg?

Edited April 4, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[mythical.6315]

17 minutes ago, Lucifers Heaven.2167 said:

FFXIV requires you to pay real money, on a repeating basis, to gain access to the ability to form parties... 

 

Thats the sub which is required to play the game beyond the first expansion.  This is different from how you’re portraying it in your post. 

[Lucifers Heaven.2167]

38 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

Thats the sub which is required to play the game beyond the first expansion.  This is different from how you’re portraying it in your post. 

 

Except that for the core game, and first expansion, the sub isn't necessary. 

Sure, it gets you a couple of things other than partying (increased/removed gold cap for instance), but honestly not that much extra. 

 

So for the whole core game and first expansion, partying, and a couple of other minor, mostly convenience things, are gated behind a literal real money subscription fee. 

And he did say basic functionality gatekeeped behind a fee, as I quoted. 

[mythical.6315]

3 minutes ago, Lucifers Heaven.2167 said:

 

Except that for the core game, and first expansion, the sub isn't necessary. 

Sure, it gets you a couple of things other than partying (increased/removed gold cap for instance), but honestly not that much extra. 

 

So for the whole core game and first expansion, partying, and a couple of other minor, mostly convenience things, are gated behind a literal real money subscription fee. 

And he did say basic functionality gatekeeped behind a fee, as I quoted. 

It is necessary if you’re not playing on the trial. If you’re going to compare FF14 to GW2 then compare both games using their trial versions. 

[Tiw.2756]

Having the tag assists greatly in forming groups for Meta events in open world. I've been playing meta events for long enough to have my platter of cakes but don't play the TP game so don't easily have the funds to spend on a tag. I've got countless hours playing meta events and have helped lead plenty in map chat when there's already enough people but not any commander. I am not a new player, nor am I a new "leader" in game or outside of it.

 

Since there is no mechanism in place to award this critical feature to those with actual experience in the game such as event or map currency it's not just a matter of keeping commander tags out of the hands of inexperienced players, it's just an outdated design that was bad to begin with.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Tiw.2756

[ugrakarma.9416]

The gold barrier is to avoid spam and misuse.

Its seems theres a extra network traffic for each comm tag, theres a trolling where everyone pop-up command tag, then game start laging.

So yeah, commander tag is a powerful tool, thats why a gold barrier is good.

Also at this height, is pointless, most wvw players have comm tag, but very,very few like commading, hell theres ppl who even dislike enter in a squad.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Valisha.8650]

7 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

OP is right tho. 
Forum keeps telling people "if you dont like a strike / raid group, form your own"
Well OP seemingly did, and when you do, you're not given the tools to draw / split buffs in subs. Thats just a fact.
You technically dont NEED it to beat bosses, but it makes grouping, strat briefs and everything that much easier to manage and you're in denial if you cant admit that.

Reducing the total cost of commander would make the problem of unexperienced comms in wvw worse, but splitting the commander tag into 2 seperate parts that FIRST lets you draw / readycheck / put markers for 50-100g, then a second upgrade that gives you the ability to group up to 50 & commander logo  for the remaining 200-250g could make a LOT of players happy.
Probably would reduce the amount of strikes / raid sales too, since less active players will have more chance / tools to try for themselves

 

This, so much this. I swear community of this game has a schizophrenia sometimes;

"Stop complaining about elitists in raids/strikes, you can make your own group!"

*Makes my own group, lacks the most basic features of group organization*

"Stop complaining about the tag, just buy it! You don't even need it!"

Jesus christ, what even happened to games being about, I don't know, CONVENIENCE AND FUN?

People who say "You don't need the tag" should switch to bread-and-water diet. After all, you don't *need* anything else.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

22 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

This, so much this. I swear community of this game has a schizophrenia sometimes;

"Stop complaining about elitists in raids/strikes, you can make your own group!"

*Makes my own group, lacks the most basic features of group organization*

"Stop complaining about the tag, just buy it! You don't even need it!"

Jesus christ, what even happened to games being about, I don't know, CONVENIENCE AND FUN?

People who say "You don't need the tag" should switch to bread-and-water diet. After all, you don't *need* anything else.

If you want the features a Commander tag offers buy the tag. Don't complain about not having the the convenience without the tag.

Having the tag has nothing to do with fun.

[Doggie.3184]

Why didn't you just buy it for 100g several years ago? 

[Khisanth.2948]

20 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

After all, you don't *need* anything else.

Except that is factually wrong. 😉

You will be either deficient in various nutrients or you eat such a massive amount of bread to get enough that you end up with too much of other nutrients like carbohydrates.

[Khisanth.2948]

1 minute ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Why didn't you just buy it for 100g several years ago? 

OP does have a tag. This is complaining for other people ...

[Doggie.3184]

21 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

OP does have a tag. This is complaining for other people ...

 

23 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Why didn't you just buy it for everyone in the community for 100g several years ago? 

How's this then?

[Taclism.2406]

34 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Except that is factually wrong. 😉

You will be either deficient in various nutrients or you eat such a massive amount of bread to get enough that you end up with too much of other nutrients like carbohydrates

It still stands. You only need bread & water to play the game of being (barely) alive. Being healthy is convenience if you follow the analogy. Just like healthy grouping options

[Valisha.8650]

1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Having the tag has nothing to do with fun.

No, I am sure having to pay 300 gold to finally have such basic tools as grouping has nothing to do with fun. Not at all.

[Khisanth.2948]

23 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

It still stands. You only need bread & water to play the game of being (barely) alive. Being healthy is convenience if you follow the analogy. Just like healthy grouping options

No it does not. It is possible 99% of the other things in game without a tag whereas being dead is not the same as being alive.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Valisha.8650 said:

No, I am sure having to pay 300 gold to finally have such basic tools as grouping has nothing to do with fun. Not at all.

You can create squads without tag. Subgroups can be created without commander tag. 

[Lupini.6938]

I'll agree that there are squad tools I wish were available either just to everyone, or at the least to a mentor tag.  Specifically the location and item markers.  If you are actually trying to mentor people, being able to mark locations or items is really useful.  I've led smaller private groups through JP's or other open-world content.  Every time I do it, I wish I had the marker tools for a regular group or a mentor tag.  I often help out people that are differently-abled, and an open group environment isn't good for allowing me to focus on what needs to happen for those folks.  If I use the tag to have the tools, but make the group private, then I'm constantly having to answer whispers asking what we're doing, why isn't the group open, or telling me to take down my tag because I shouldn't use it unless others can join (yes, I've had others telling me to not use a tag in open PVE).

I guess I'm less concerned with the price of the tags, and more about some pretty basic group tools being available to everyone.  Sure, those of us that purchased multiple tags back in the day spent more gold, but we also got gold back when they converted the tags to account wide if we had spent more than $300G.  Those of us with only one tag early on got a great deal--there are quite a few people that only paid $100G for their tags.  Just being in the right place at the right time doesn't make them better commanders.

[ArchonWing.9480]

14 minutes ago, Lupini.6938 said:

Those of us with only one tag early on got a great deal--there are quite a few people that only paid $100G for their tags.  Just being in the right place at the right time doesn't make them better commanders.

But 100g was worth a lot more back then. There weren't nearly as much good gold sources back then and pretty much involved farming dungeons. Dailies only started giving 2g after 2016. Now 100g is like 3-4 daily fractals or a few hours of a meta train.

So it would be very strange if an experienced raider couldn't muster 300g, especially when ascended gear costs 1/3 of what it did back then.

Edited April 4, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480