What's the purpose of earning Hero Points if you can't spend them ?

[lucvw.6025]

Something I have been wondering about for a long time... My main character has +300 hero points left after training all elite specializations to maximum. And still, in EoD, there are again a lot of hero points to be earned. But why ? If you're maxed out everything, what's the purpose of having so much hero points left which you can't use ?

[Gibson.4036]

250 for the next expansion's e-specs!

[Rasimir.6239]

The purpose is to allow people to choose which ones to pick up. You can grab them all, but you don't have to and can still max out your character's specialzations.

 

Secondary purpose is being another map completion objective in additon to pois, vistas, and stuff. If you want map completion, grab them, but if you just want to specialize alt #27, then simply choose the hero points that are most convenient for you and don't worry about the rest.

[Redfeather.6401]

I am bummed that core HPs got relegated. They don't mean anything. If someone doesn't have an expansion, they don't need them. If someone does get an expansion, they can get 100 hp from a quick verdant brink, seitung harbour sweep... but to get 100 hp from tyria would take an incredibly long time.

It's unfortunate that the game didn't give any incentive to do the core hero points anymore once the system revamp made it so that every level you get free points.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Redfeather.6401

[SinisterSlay.6973]

Well it means on expansion you can max the new elite spec immediately and use it in the new areas. Rather than playing the entire expansion, getting your elite spec, then having no content left to play with it.

[mythical.6315]

4 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

I am bummed that core HPs got relegated. They don't mean anything. If someone doesn't have an expansion, they don't need them. If someone does get an expansion, they can get 100 hp from a quick verdant brink, seitung harbour sweep... but to get 100 hp from tyria would take an incredibly long time.

It's unfortunate that the game didn't give any incentive to do the core hero points anymore once the system revamp made it so that every level you get free points.

There wasn’t any incentive in the first place except for map completion. 

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

There wasn’t any incentive in the first place except for map completion. 

Yea there was to unlock your utility skills in the early days.

[Asum.4960]

I think the main purpose is to give players a choice to avoid any "difficult" HP's. Although it is a bit silly that at this point a maxed out character will have almost 500 Hero Points left over, enough for almost 2 more E-Specs. 

 

While I get that Anet wants to have that surplus of HP's in every Expansion to not assume a player having access to all of them to pick and chose, this much surplus does greatly cheapen their discovery in future expansions. It's pretty much a non-mechanic at this point.

[Izzy.2951]

completing maps for rewards?

[knite.1542]

Imagine the world where we only have exactly enough hero points available.

• Some hero points are extremely difficult (thinking from what I believe is the skill level of the average player)
• Some hero points can only be done at certain times in a maps META.
• Some hero points require access to certain maps/masteries.

If there weren't options, the game would be a lot less fun for a bunch of people. Instead of making this thread, you might be making a thread titled "Why aren't there more hero points?"

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by knite.1542

[Astralporing.1957]

14 hours ago, lucvw.6025 said:

Something I have been wondering about for a long time... My main character has +300 hero points left after training all elite specializations to maximum. And still, in EoD, there are again a lot of hero points to be earned. But why ? If you're maxed out everything, what's the purpose of having so much hero points left which you can't use ?

It's so people do not need to "max out" on them in order to unlock their specs. This way, they can just go after the easier ones from all 3 expacs and core.

It's also so you can play any new expansion on a new espec from that expansion, instead of unlocking it only after you get through all the story.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Danikat.8537]

If there were only enough to unlock the currently available specs then as well as having no choice it would mean you'd have to collect all of them from an expansion (going around all the maps) before you'd be able to use the new specs.

It was a bit like that when HoT came out. If I remember correctly the hero challenges initially only gave 1 point each, which meant even people who had collected all the ones from the base game would need to be quite a way into the expansion before they could use the elite spec, which disappointed quite a few people who were more interested in the specs than exploring the new maps.

It also means people who only buy 1 expansion still have enough points to fully unlock the elite specs which come with it.

[Zok.4956]

14 hours ago, lucvw.6025 said:

And still, in EoD, there are again a lot of hero points to be earned. But why ? If you're maxed out everything, what's the purpose of having so much hero points left which you can't use ?

Players can earn more Hero Points and also Mastery Points than they can spend to give players choices on which challenges to complete and skip.

 

[Geckoo.6018]

Having different options to get something is great, but there is a point to be made about hero and mastery points having some other use when you no longer need them for their original purpose.

[Rasimir.6239]

22 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

It was a bit like that when HoT came out. If I remember correctly the hero challenges initially only gave 1 point each, which meant even people who had collected all the ones from the base game would need to be quite a way into the expansion before they could use the elite spec, which disappointed quite a few people who were more interested in the specs than exploring the new maps.

HoT hero challenges gave 10 hero points from the start, but originally you needed 400 points (so all 40 HoT hero challenges if you didn't collect any in core, or around half of them if you collected all the core ones) to unlock your full elite spec. I'm pretty sure they also needed more points than available from leveling originally to fully unlock your core spec, although I don't remember the exact numbers.

 

They toned that down to 250 points for elite and as many points as you get from leveling for core (heavily backloaded, you get a big chunk of those points only beyond level 70) after they realized that repeatedly collecting most (or even all) hero points on all characters just isn't fun for most people.

[Rasimir.6239]

1 minute ago, Geckoo.6018 said:

Having different options to get something is great, but there is a point to be made about hero and mastery points having some other use when you no longer need them for their original purpose.

In a way they already do. Mastery points are a kind of by-product of achievements, which plenty people do for the achievement points alone. Hero challenges are map completion objectives just like pois and vistas, so once you have enough hero points the challenges still have a purpose.

 

If you don't care about mastery points nor achievements, and neither care about hero points nor map completion, but still feel compelled to "catch them all", then honestly questioning your individual motives might be more healthy for the game than attaching additional rewards to these points that again force entice everyone to grab them.

[Sahne.6950]

What? You can get Heropoints outside of Wvw? 😛

[Geckoo.6018]

2 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

In a way they already do. Mastery points are a kind of by-product of achievements, which plenty people do for the achievement points alone. Hero challenges are map completion objectives just like pois and vistas, so once you have enough hero points the challenges still have a purpose.

But that's just part of 'their original purpose'. The point would be to give them some use when they are sitting on your hero panel with no use for them. I'm not asking for anything fancy or unique, just something as simple as converting them to spirit shards with an apropiate exchange ratio would be enough, they'll keep their original purpose and reinforce the interest in them as part of completing a zone with several characters.

[Healix.5819]

18 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I'm pretty sure they also needed more points than available from leveling originally to fully unlock your core spec, although I don't remember the exact numbers.

They originally planned on requiring 65 additional hero points to fully unlock the core specializations (complaints).

[Astralporing.1957]

56 minutes ago, Geckoo.6018 said:

But that's just part of 'their original purpose'. The point would be to give them some use when they are sitting on your hero panel with no use for them. I'm not asking for anything fancy or unique, just something as simple as converting them to spirit shards with an apropiate exchange ratio would be enough, they'll keep their original purpose and reinforce the interest in them as part of completing a zone with several characters.

But that's the point: those points that are "sitting on your hero panel with no use for them" do have a purpose. It's just that you won't see this purpose until the next expansion.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Zzik.5873]

17 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

But that's the point: those points that are "sitting on your hero panel with no use for them" do have a purpose. It's just that you won't see this purpose until the next expansion.

Yes and no. With new expasion, I never fully unlock my espec. I level for 1 hero point that my rule. Its fun to have something to progress here and there. But yeah ha ing over 400 sleeping does make it less fun and feal "cheap". But honestly I dont care that much so thats that.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm sure some players have several L80 characters that do not have any excess Hero Points, or just a few.  Certainly not enough to fill out an expansion's Elite Specialization requirement.  Thus, there should always be enough Hero Challenges in each expansion to do so.

[Rauderi.8706]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

It was a bit like that when HoT came out. If I remember correctly the hero challenges initially only gave 1 point each, which meant even people who had collected all the ones from the base game would need to be quite a way into the expansion before they could use the elite spec, which disappointed quite a few people who were more interested in the specs than exploring the new maps.
 

Not quite, but mechanically still the same. HoT hero challenges gave 10 points and the elite specs required 400 hero points to complete. (40 challenges x 10 points = 400 points) It got bumped down to 250, pretty much for the reason you stated. Players were upset they couldn't use the elite in the content it was designed for. 

I'm very glad they made the change and that it held going forward.

 

Though, since there's always a surplus of hero points, I wouldn't mind a way to exchange them for mastery points. HINT HINT ANET. 

[Redfeather.6401]

13 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

There wasn’t any incentive in the first place except for map completion. 

At first if you wanted all your classes skills unlocked you had to find hero challenges, earn skill points, and unlock new skills with those. They were the class progression path. When class progression got changed to give every pointed needed through leveling up, all hero challenges and their reason for their being got severely relegated to how you are viewing them now.

It is a shame that something in the game was abandoned like that. There is a lot of them and they could have been reworked to retain their intended value as progression content.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Redfeather.6401

[mythical.6315]

4 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

At first if you wanted all your classes skills unlocked you had to find hero challenges, earn skill points, and unlock new skills with those. They were the class progression path. When class progression got changed to give every pointed needed through leveling up, all hero challenges and their reason for their being got severely relegated to how you are viewing them now.

It is a shame that something in the game was abandoned like that. There is a lot of them and they could have been reworked to retain their intended value as progression content.

I had forgotten their usage several iterations before what we have now. I don’t believe there’s any way to make them have value like that without revamping the entire system yet again.