Need more clarity around 60% success rate in DE meta

[Zacchary.6183]

On 4/14/2022 at 3:30 PM, Pizzous.4783 said:

Meanwhile, only 8.995% have unlocked Stomping Around achievement.

Just want to point out the keyword is "unlocked".

[Raizel.8175]

11 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Its not badly made per say, but if you don't know at leasts the basics of T3+/strikes movement, boons & rotation/gear, and solely play story / other open world metas, you most likely dont belong there.

If you're gonna ask this much of the average player, improve the learning experience first. Otherwise, lower the dps requierement so that it can still be somewhat carried in pugs ...

In all honesty, the game is almost 10 years old by now. People had to at least go through the levelling process and several story instances. Fundamental game mechanics should be obvious. If people still don't bother with interacting with the game, they just don't want to play the game properly. They want to be a burden and deadweight to other people. Or are we going to pull out the nonsensical argument of the new player that insta-boosted him-/herself to level 80 and went straight to DE now?

[Malus.2184]

 

On 4/15/2022 at 12:20 AM, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

It's simple really.

 

Good players -> Succesful Meta. 

Bad players -> Failed Meta. 

Between those two extremes is the category of 'average players,' and the objective reality is that average players even with good organization is utterly dependent on the RNG factor of that fight. This objectively makes the meta, according to any theory about activity structure, frustrating instead of challenging as the result can differ wildly even with the same performance shown by the players in the 'average' category.

The belief behind your opinion is objectively wrong 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Taclism.2406]

 

11 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

They did try with the Training Grounds in Seitung. Combo, Dodge & CC. It forced you to learn the very basics

2 big problems with it : 

1) its in open world, not instanced. On release it was so crowded you could spam about every skill and get random combos / cc until it works. I know quite a few people that beat it not understanding what they did

because its in open world, you dont have to know all your CC, but one, others will do the rest. Same with combos, dont have to understand their setup

2) you're never truely tested on it ever again (until DE's meta).
Like Idk, have a mob in story with 45sec to deal 1200 CC, otherwise it explodes dealing damage to you AND giving multiple permaboons to mobs within its range. Have bosses heal back up if you dont CC and interupt their cast. Have a boss thats "a dps check". Dont be afraid to let the player FAIL so that they can LEARN.
I feel half the frustration from casual players is that they're told again and again they'd improve, but never really failed that hard during story / low req metas, and they'd be more open to suggestion if it wasnt this rare.

 

28 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

In all honesty, the game is almost 10 years old by now. People had to at least go through the levelling process and several story instances. Fundamental game mechanics should be obvious. If people still don't bother with interacting with the game, they just don't want to play the game properly. They want to be a burden and deadweight to other people.

I mean maybe you've played it for 10 years. I started 6 months ago, and I'm loving gw2's complex systems, but it doesnt change the fact the game is poorly explained, pretty much constantly need to use wiki and other external websites to do meaningful progress (and its combat is visually messy). All of this is fairly time consuming until you know what you're doing. Ultimately, it comes with MMOs, but I still think the game could teach better the first few steps, and maybe give you a further insentive to look up websites then.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

5 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

2) you're never truely tested on it ever again (until DE's meta).
Like Idk, have a mob in story with 45sec to deal 1200 CC, otherwise it explodes dealing damage to you AND giving multiple permaboons to mobs within its range. Have bosses heal back up if you dont CC and interupt their cast. Have a boss thats "a dps check". Dont be afraid to let the player FAIL so that they can LEARN.
I feel half the frustration from casual players is that they're told again and again they'd improve, but never really failed that hard during story / low req metas, and they'd be more open to suggestion if it wasnt this rare.

Combo fields were required in one of the story mission, there was even a thread from someone on release complaining they had to buy a weapon to combo and they didn't even know what skills had fields/finishers.

I remember encountering a lot of CC bars in Kaineng, one of my old Guildmates even complained about too many enemies having CC bars there.

But then again, trying to teach this kitten in the third expansion is kinda worth as much as a kiss for the dead.

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

4 hours ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

Just want to point out the keyword is "unlocked".

In the context of gw2efficienty "unlocked" means "completed". Currently it is slightly above 9% of players using gw2efficiency (not entire playerbase).

Since Turtle is locked behind Kaineng Overlook Strike Mission and I've had some first timers join my runs recently, there are players who have the collection unlocked, but they are simply not finished with it.

We don't really have a statistic that would show us what % of pug runs finishes the meta successfully. The thing that guild adjacent communitites do differently is: trying to force open a new map, do all the things possible to increase the winrate (calls, boons, group comp, instant tp to wp on death, agree on the splits beforehand, send ppl who know greens into them [to save time]). In many cases they are using in-game chat to comm those runs.

Rng is partially to blame for losses, but we need to pay attention to what's happening around. In EoD Anet even gave us NPCs calling out mechanics, not sure if any1 noticed. That's a nice touch. We still see ppl stomped/clapped to death by various bosses.

[Raizel.8175]

57 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

Between those two extremes is the category of 'average players,' and the objective reality is that average players even with good organizatioon is utterly dependent on the RNG factor of that fight. This objectively makes the meta, according to any theory about activity structure, frustrating instead of challenging as the result can differ wildly even with the same performance shown by the players in the 'average' category.

The RNG will get toned down with the next patch since the encounter isn't working as intended. Other than that, the encounter is perfectly fine even for what should be the "average" player. In all honesty, you just need to use some open world build from metabattle whose intention is to do damage instead of just tagging events and you'll be fine. The problem is that a certain part of the playerbase just doesn't want to play this game as a MMORPG - being part of a community, pulling their own weight, listening to instructions, etc. pp. Some people are also adamant about playing the game on auto pilot and thus dying to every single instakill AoE. The problem isn't the "average" player, it's those leeches that don't even want to put in a modicum of effort.

37 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

I mean maybe you've played it for 10 years. I started 6 months ago, and I'm loving gw2's complex systems, but it doesnt change the fact the game is poorly explained, pretty much constantly need to use wiki and other external websites to do meaningful progress (and its combat is visually messy). All of this is fairly time consuming until you know what you're doing. Ultimately, it comes with MMOs, but I still think the game could teach better the first few steps, and maybe give you a further insentive to look up websites then.

That's how games work nowadays though. Or do you want to go back to the olden days where you had to buy strategy guides or - especially in MMORPGs - had to be lucky to find some decent mentors teaching you how to play your class? Besides that, GW2 is far from being as complex as you depict it to be. GW1 players lament to this day that GW1s build system has been utterly devastated and dumbed down in GW2. Fundamental game mechanics are pretty obvious - especially if you're willing to read actual ingame descriptions like traits and skills. Also: We're all adult people here and not some pre-school kids who need to be taught everything from the ground up. Assuming some independence from your own players is perfectly fine. I'm with you on the visual noise though... That definitely needs toning down.

[Chicken Fro.6953]

I join PUG spontaneous map formations all the time for DE, and with one commander who knows how to set the sides up, it's successful almost every time, often with a couple minutes left. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:56 AM, Firebeard.1746 said:

In a box, this sounds like excellent news, however, my impression has been that most of the community has stopped playing the meta. The 60% success rate means little if it's only a given community or set of communities that's finally figured out how to clear reliably and they're just doing it with the same groups of people. Because that could mean that if we all try again, we're just going to fail again. Can we get more data on random commanders not associated with a given community succeeding? Did you vet your numbers to make sure people weren't being siphoned off into the failing 40% of maps and that the 60% of maps succeeding weren't stacked? Apparently a commander in Mighty Teapot's hardstuck community was doing that to stack his instance and was boasting a 90% success rate before being caught. 

Also, what about comps? Are the 60% of people succeeding running full raid comps in each sub group? Is that the expectation? some clarity around expectations of the commanders could also go a long way in terms of making sure groups are properly organized in order to succeed. 

And finally, does succeeding in the meta mean i have to play full-on LFG wars? Or is there any hope of just joining a map and it succeeding? Because honestly there are players that never use that tool.

A number is just a number and with no context, I'm timid about believing it's good news. If it is, that's great, but I still saw plenty of complaints after the last set of nerfs, so my gut tells me there's just a few particular communities doing it and succeeding reliably, potentially by being jerks like the Hardstuck commander. 

 

As a random nobody who decided to join their discord and pariticipate in their run I can tell you something. Yes the success rate is high but the reason is because people are actually playing good build and being useful. Anyone can join their discord and participate in DE's meta, that's what I did. Reading your post feels like you are wrongly attacking them for forming a community of people willing to gather together to defeat a boss map. The few HS member organizing DE are all chill and they dont mind explaining how and what to do everyday. 

 

But do you know why people are forming discord for DE ? Do you know why people are gathering in such community ? It is because they want to win. I personnally joined their discord because playing with pug is a waste of time. I thought after all the nerf and all the knowledge about the boss, player would steadily improve but time showed me people refuses to improve. The meta is easily doable when you have a semi decent core group with good CC, decent damage and decent support role. But good luck finding any of that in pug. Most commander just put everyone in the same subgroup and call it a day.  People are playing their own build, you have no idea what it does, there's no boon and CC is lacking. In dont know how many time I saw people explaining that bringing CC is important both ingame and on the forum or reddit or whatever media. And yet when the CC bar appear you notice the group has no CC.

 

I've been going a bit offroad there but the meta event is much more easier to complete now than before which is displayed by the success rate going up.  However if you expect people to just walk in do nothing but press 1 and get a free win like 99.9% of all OW meta event then you better hope your core group is strong enough to prevent that sabotage.

[Malus.2184]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:36 PM, Raizel.8175 said:

The RNG will get toned down with the next patch since the encounter isn't working as intended. Other than that, the encounter is perfectly fine even for what should be the "average" player. In all honesty, you just need to use some open world build from metabattle whose intention is to do damage...

I'll just quote this since it's relevant to my counter-argument.

There's no RNG toning down in the next patch, just a bug fix of a bug that appeared when something else was fixed.

You saying that they should just use Metabattle is an argument that defeats itself once you look closer at what Metabattle offers. I'll define a label here since I'll use it a lot in my argument:

Contextual utility: the ability to quickly deal CC damage to a Defiance bar. Contextual utility are abilities that are either outside the DPS rotation or on such a short cooldown that it hardly matters.

With that said. The builds from Snowcrows, Metabattle, et al. open-world only offer top DPS, and top DPS seldom includes any contextual utility. Metabattle is a little bit better at this as it offers alternatives in skill selection of "take X  if Y is needed." They mever avtually explain what they do, so new players unaware of their importance will just go for the best DPS-build. The irony is that in their structure the sites like that creates the bad players they wish to prevent as the players who follow their advice blindly will take things because someone else told  them and/or follow a described sequence of events regardless of them being contextually appropriate in order to follow the rotation they've been given. DPS will fall apart if they stray as they're repeating from rote memory instead of adapting, and they'll have little to none contextual utility unless the build by chance includes it, such as the Toolbelt Skill for Hardlight Arena on the open-world Power Holosmith build.

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

With that said. The builds from Snowcrows, Metabattle, et al. open-world only offer top DPS, and top DPS seldom includes any contextual utility.

 

 

Uhm....every DPS mesmer-build comes with the Daze shatter built-in with additional cc damage based on the elite spec,  Every DPS guardian variant comes with cc damage ( Willbender Elite, DH elite, GS 5, etc), Every DPS revenant variant comes with CC built in (no matter if its the elite from meme herald, Shiro elite, Renegade summons, Vindicator Archemorus even if little), Warrior DPS comes with build in CC in every variant ( berserker elite, Bladesworn dragonslash, Spellbreaker is spellbreaker),  It is close to impossible as a necro to bring no CC, do I need to go on? 

Every DPS class-role has some form of CC built-in.

 

And if for whatever reason you are incapable of pressing the correct CC skill, your commander was nice enough to put down a Legion Waystation for you to pick up an EMP, reducing your cognitive load to "see blue bar, press C".

 

The top DPS builds give you pretty much all that you require, if only people decided to not play on auto-pilot. 

It reminds me of reddit a while back, where a person complained about not having any form of CC....while playing a Necromancer. 

 

The encounter is not the problem, and you cannot blame it on people with raid DPS builds either considering those builds have built-in cc options and the prevalence of the EMP cushion.

 

The problem has always been players. 

Players unwilling to put in the bare minimum. 

It doesn't matter what you change or try, those people will still fail while demanding the world.

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

You saying that they should just use Metabattle is an argument that defeats itself once you look closer at what Metabattle offers. I'll define a label here since I'll use it a lot in my argument:

It can be a starting point, in more organised groups comms tend to recommend skills that will be useful during the fight e.g.:
Necro: Epi (to kill adds), Spectral Grasp (pull + cc)
Guardians: SYG (stability), Sanctuary (cc)
Warriors: Banners (group dps boost)
Rangers: Doylak Stance (stability), Spirits (Sun or Frost to boost group dps), One Wolf Pack (again group dps boost, scales with sb's power), Leader of the Pack (stance share)
People are usually able to sacrifice one or two skill slots for that. I am not saying that this guarantees the win, but it sure doesn't hurt.

[eyelogix.1654]

The problem as I've noticed is that a commander shows up 30 min before the escort.
He doesn't say anything about boons or sort the group. People have a hard time to prepare the map within that time limit.
CC or food isn't provided. (yes the ascended food is still the best out there), and no don't drop the cake one cuz it sucks and doesn't last that long.

People don't bother getting 5% buff before the escort. I've also seen players who AFK during the boss fight.
If you don't pull your kitten and help in any way, it is doomed from the start.

[Raizel.8175]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

I'll just quote this since it's relevant to my counter-argument.

There's no RNG toning down in the next patch, just a bug fix of a bug that appeared when something else was fixed-

You saying that they should just use Metabattle is an argument that defeats itself once you look closer at what Metabattle offers. I'll define a label here since I'll use it a lot in my argument:

Contextual utility: the ability to quickly deal CC damage to a Defiance bar. Contextual utility are abilities that are either outside the DPS rotation or on such a short cooldown that it hardly matters.

With that said. The builds from Snowcrows, Metabattle, et al. open-world only offer top DPS, and top DPS seldom includes any contextual utility. Metabattle is a little bit better at this as it offers alternatives in skill selection of "take X  if Y is needed." They mever avtually explain what they do, so new players unaware of their importance will just go for the best DPS-build. The irony is that in their structure the sites like that creates the bad players they wish to prevent as the players who follow their advice blindly will take things because someone else told  them and/or follow a described sequence of events regardless of them being contextually appropriate in order to follow the rotation they've been given. DPS will fall apart if they stray as they're repeating from rote memory instead of adapting, and they'll have little to none contextual utility unless the build by chance includes it, such as the Toolbelt Skill for Hardlight Arena on the open-world Power Holosmith build.

 

Bla bla bla...

We're back to the point where people simply refuse to use their brain and common sense. Sites like metabattle are tools as are the builds that are posted there. How people use these tools is up to them. Almost every meta build offers some form of CC - to come back to your example.

[artar.2759]

Not every person uses a build that has a lot of built in cc to their build when they do open world stuff.  And if you realize too late oh hey, I don't have as much cc options, you can't change in combat, which the meta loves to keep you locked into.  Doesnt affect a lot of people, but it affects some.

 

Not every person has farmed the snot out of Drizzlewood Coasty and has war supplies - or even has access to the zone.  Not everyone owns every piece of content.  I do have it, but have not done a ton there, so I don't constantly have a large surplus of WS - but if I do, of course I'm usin the bench and getting a cc pulse.

 

Not every person has map chat on.  Some people know full well how toxic a map chat CAN be and just avoid it.

 

Not every person in the map is there for the meta - and the zone, last I knew, scales as if they are.  Fishers lose all those stacks if they swap instances, so it's not as simple an ask as just hey can you pop out.

 

Not every person who got an early completion is willing to deal with the headache again yet - a lot of people who got their turtle have the mentality of, well this is dead to me now.  Or they step away from it.  So the people getting to it are not necessarily people who know it cold and just need another clear.

 

Not every person has had a bug free experience with the fight.  She still bugs out and swoops back and forth a lot sometimes.  Ran into that about 3 days ago myself.

 

Not everyone is good with spatial distancing and jumping puzzles.  Bad RNG on the wisps bit can be bad.  I can do it, but I will be the first to admit I'm not great at it.  That entire phase is still kinda pointless imo.  Make the jumps like 2x the height and shorten it, since it would be harder to remove it with the achievement tied to it.  But it's very weird and out of place for the fight.  Feels like they wanted a reason to make the tower tall and a reason to use the stand-behind-the-thing mechanic.

 

And not everyone is a basement dwelling no lifer who lives on this game -- and not everyone is a mouthbreather who only ever uses the 1 key.  Most people are just regular average players who are doing their best.  Extremes are an extreme, not the normal - otherwise they wouldn't be the extremes.

 

For a game that promotes goodwill and teamwork from the ground up - with open world metas, no kill stealing, player specific resource nodes, shared stacks of fishing, etc...  This game REWARDS us for cooperating and good intent.  That is one of the main reasons why I genuinely and actually hate the Dragon's End Meta - it's been the literal opposite.  It's brought out so much toxicity and elitism, it's been eye opening.  I've seen players actively scamming others over it - not asking them to leave, but using lies and manipulation to try to force them to.  And it's not been one or two people that have done it - even in a moment of weakness.  I've personally seen it many times.  THAT is not what GW2 is about, imo.

 

To the commanders who are patiently still running this meta and trying to help - thank you.  It's appreciated.

[Xelqypla.6817]

If they want to boost Meta completion, they need to include Meta mechanics into the basic Dragons End map. You want CC in the Meta? Require it in the rest of the map. You want DPS target swapping between two ends of a football field? Require it on the basic events. Wisp thing (whatever it is)? Put it in somewhere else as well.

 

When the Meta pops, even the average player will have the abilities they need already on their skill bars and have basic training on the mechanics.

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Well...let's see:

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

Not every person uses a build that has a lot of built in cc to their build when they do open world stuff.  And if you realize too late oh hey, I don't have as much cc options, you can't change in combat, which the meta loves to keep you locked into.  Doesnt affect a lot of people, but it affects some.

Then how about slotting it in during the downtimes between events when you get out of combat? Breakbars and CC are nothing new at this point in the game its lifespan.

 

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

Not every person has farmed the snot out of Drizzlewood Coasty and has war supplies - or even has access to the zone.  Not everyone owns every piece of content.  I do have it, but have not done a ton there, so I don't constantly have a large surplus of WS - but if I do, of course I'm usin the bench and getting a cc pulse.

 

Cool, so bring forms of CC that you actually cán bring. an EMP is only 300 breakbar damage, you have plenty of profession skills that do more that you can bring.  The EMP is overkill and is mainly there to accomodate everyone who for whatever reason came without CC to a bossfight. This all once again comes down to people unwilling to prepare for the fight.  Bring a half-decent build, which probably has CC by default.

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

Not every person has map chat on. 

 

Then they should not join an organised event in the first place. You join a group actvity but are not willing to communicate? That is completely on you. In fact, it is very selfish because if the squad is asked to do X, you won't see that, might do something else, and drag other people down. Once again, invest the bare minimum. Being able to communicate or at least read is a very reasonable and basic requirement.

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

Not every person in the map is there for the meta

 

That's fine, but if they are not there for the meta, how do they end up in the meta fight? 

Avoiding people doing map completions, achievements or fishing is why so many commanders map-jump already, so these people are already allowed to play in their own bubble and their own map as much as possible. But if you are on that map, and you do decide to join the tag and the meta, at least have the decency to contribute in a meaningful manner.

 

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

Not every person who got an early completion is willing to deal with the headache again yet - a lot of people who got their turtle have the mentality of, well this is dead to me now.  Or they step away from it.  So the people getting to it are not necessarily people who know it cold and just need another clear.

 

You have youtube at your disposal to check up the fight. You have the wiki at your disposal. You have reddit with several guides. And you have a commander who can explain stuff.. And above all: You know how to type right? It is not very hard to say "Hi, first timer here, anything special I need to know?" and 99% of the time someone in the squad is perfectly willing to give you a run-down of the tactics.

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

Not every person has had a bug free experience with the fight.  She still bugs out and swoops back and forth a lot sometimes.  Ran into that about 3 days ago myself.

 

That's somewhat fair, bug should be squashed. At the same time, you often see this happen in low DPS groups.

 

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

Not everyone is good with spatial distancing and jumping puzzles. 

 

Also fair, but you could simply consider NOT grabbing a green and simply defend the platform. If you cannot do that particular mechanic, that is fine, leave it to someone else, people will cover for you.

 

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

And not everyone is a basement dwelling no lifer who lives on this game

 

Ahh here we go. Asking for the absolute minimal amount of preparation makes one a basement dwelling no lifer, got it. And then people wonder why the people who know the fight have en masse disappeared into discord groups.

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

For a game that promotes goodwill and teamwork from the ground up - with open world metas, no kill stealing, player specific resource nodes, shared stacks of fishing, etc...  This game REWARDS us for cooperating and good intent. 

 

No it doesn't, the game simply was so easy in the open world none of it ever mattered.

 

1 hour ago, artar.2759 said:

It's brought out so much toxicity and elitism, it's been eye opening.

 

Because people are tired of having to carry people who don't contribute in any way and often refuse to change anything about their playstyle. This is the one meta where you cannot get away with it. It is the same reason you see LI and KP requirements in other parts of the game. Because that way you at least get a squad that has some basic things down. The bar is thát low. And it says a lot about the average player that they fail to even hit thát bar.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Wielder Of Magic.3950

[artar.2759]

17 minutes ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

Ahh here we go. Asking for the absolute minimal amount of preparation makes one a basement dwelling no lifer, got it. And then people wonder why the people who know the fight have en masse disappeared into discord groups.

 

 

You cherrypicked that entire section to suit your comment.  That is not the context of what I said.

 

And not everyone is a basement dwelling no lifer who lives on this game -- and not everyone is a mouthbreather who only ever uses the 1 key.  Most people are just regular average players who are doing their best.  Extremes are an extreme, not the normal - otherwise they wouldn't be the extremes.

 

Discussion and debate is healthy - but skewing the other person's words is not helping anyone.

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

14 minutes ago, artar.2759 said:

and not everyone is a mouthbreather who only ever uses the 1 key.

Unfortunately I see no other way for people to end up with less than 3k DPS in a squad that buffs them to hell and back.

14 minutes ago, artar.2759 said:

Most people are just regular average players who are doing their best.

 

Hate to break it to you, but many people are 100% NOT doing their best. All they do is show up and feel that is enough. You only have to look to your other points. Mapchat disabled in a group event that needs coordination? really?  People have had years to get basics down, it is now time to swim....or sink.

14 minutes ago, artar.2759 said:

Extremes are an extreme, not the normal - otherwise they wouldn't be the extremes.

 

If those underperforming people were only an extreme outlier we would not have seen the absurd LI gating in this game or so many people flocking towards discord communities to get things done. Many people do not want to invest, prepare, read up, or change their build, gear or weapons. They just want to show up and for that to be enough. And you can do that pretty much everywhere else in the open world in this game. Just not here. Casual players have mocked and laughed at the not-so-casual ones with every update that reduced the fun those people had, no matter if it had to do with raids, templates or fractal CM's. And now those players understandably do not have a lot of sympathy for the more casual people in return. So they form groups on discord, stick together, and watch casual people bash their heads against an extremely low, thin and small wall. People have tried to teach, tried to explain, but if you get met with refusal and the toxic elitist label every time, people will give up and watch you burn from afar instead.

14 minutes ago, artar.2759 said:

Discussion and debate is healthy - but skewing the other person's words is not helping anyone.

 

Maybe not describe people who prepare properly as basement-dwellers next time then. People aren't asking for you to bring a bleeding edge build and hit your raid DPS benchmarks. But there is a middleground between raid players and doing less than 3k DPS (there are literally builds available that let you do 20k DPS with 1-3 buttons, and you only need to do 7k DPS to contribute meaningfully... seriously....7k is not that much...), having mapchat disabled and not having 10 stacks of DE contributor.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Wielder Of Magic.3950

[Silent.6137]

23 minutes ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

 This is the one meta where you cannot get away with it. It is the same reason you see LI and KP requirements. Because that way you at least get a squad that has some basic things down. The bar is thát low. And it says a lot about the average player that they fail to even hit thát bar.

Requiring LI and KP for a mapwide meta is absolutely silly.

I've only seen a couple that asked to ping a couple of legendary items but do not kick if not done. Commander just place those in smaller subgroups knowing they can handle a particular split. As for LI and KP, only seen 1 commander demanding that. Didn't bother joining that squad although I have them. Doubt it was very successful since it was on LFG for a very long time and only 1/2 filled when timer started.

There are many squads that are very successful without requiring proofs of any of those nonsense for an open world meta.

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

No it doesn't, the game simply was so easy in the open world none of it ever mattered.

I mean yes, but not having kill stealing or node stealing is a matter of intention, and is true regardless of difficulty.  The game is designed so that you want to see other players, instead of seeing them as competition. Otherwise, I'd just want an empty map so people don't steal the nodes.

That notion shouldn't be discarded so easily even if there are some people that insist on playing group content but not meaningfully contributing-- certainly that's been an issue with content.

Edited April 16, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[vandrefalk.6823]

On 4/14/2022 at 11:13 PM, Donari.5237 said:

I'm lucky enough to have a commander to follow that gets us 100% wins.  She hasn't won every time, but...

I'm sorry, but you need to work on your maths 😁

[Silent.6137]

54 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

I'm sorry, but you need to work on your maths 😁

But if someone can give a 110% effort.... It can be done because I've seen and read about it many times, so it must be true.

[Donari.5237]

*laughs* Maybe I wasn't super clear.  She reportedly had some losses when starting out, before I began joining the squad.  It's been 100% successful during the runs I've been on.  Not at all due to my efforts!  I just managed to come in right when she'd nailed down the strategy.

[Silent.6137]

32 minutes ago, Donari.5237 said:

*laughs* Maybe I wasn't super clear.  She reportedly had some losses when starting out, before I began joining the squad.  It's been 100% successful during the runs I've been on.  Not at all due to my efforts!  I just managed to come in right when she'd nailed down the strategy.

I think we all understood what you meant. Just adding some hilarity to the discussions. 😊