Why are Ele builds stronk tier lately?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Anyone else notice god tier Ele builds appearing lately?

Strange no one in the forum is bringing this up.

It's definitely a thing as of recently.

 

 

 

[Gundam Style.8495]

They have been strong as duck for years, it is not new.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Name some of these builds you seeing? Please don't list fire weaver. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

20 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Name some of these builds you seeing? Please don't list fire weaver. 

I dunno man. It's just Eles in general of all types.

Suddenly it feels like their attributes are scaled more than normal or something.

I am not judging from a player or two, I am judging this from just Eles in general being played by all players.

They're starting to feel like fighting an adamantine boulder that trucks you down if you get anywhere near it.

 

1 hour ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

They have been strong as duck for years, it is not new.

No, something feels distinctly broken lately.

Eles in pvp are starting to feel like fighting an expensive celestial wvw Ele, some nigh invulnerable battering ram.

[Gundam Style.8495]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I dunno man. It's just Eles in general of all types.

Suddenly it feels like their attributes are scaled more than normal or something.

I am not judging from a player or two, I am judging this from just Eles in general being played by all players.

They're starting to feel like fighting an adamantine boulder that trucks you down if you get anywhere near it.

 

No, something feels distinctly broken lately.

Eles in pvp are starting to feel like fighting an expensive celestial wvw Ele, some nigh invulnerable battering ram.

Address the issue with a build and some numbers, take it from me. No one cares about feelings. If you want this to get real attention, you will need proof.

[myun.6395]

11 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I dunno man. It's just Eles in general of all types.

Suddenly it feels like their attributes are scaled more than normal or something.

I am not judging from a player or two, I am judging this from just Eles in general being played by all players.

They're starting to feel like fighting an adamantine boulder that trucks you down if you get anywhere near it.

 

No, something feels distinctly broken lately.

Eles in pvp are starting to feel like fighting an expensive celestial wvw Ele, some nigh invulnerable battering ram.

If you face lots of catalysts, especially lighting rod ones who runs 2 2 2 in cata, they get some sick stats increase with the empowerment buff if they can maintain it max stacked.

They are decent  to play, but still underdogs compared to other specs.

Edit: You who reacted with confused emoji I let you know you are a trashcan rubbish bin.

Edited April 24, 2022 by myun.6395

[Rider.6024]

I think you are seeing the build grimjack linked as a comment in a theorycraft thread a few days ago, tons of weakness uptime and basically perma 25 stacks of might.

 

I didnt think it would work well until I tried it for a bit but its a really strong bruiser and can be adapted into almost any ele e spec w just about any weapon(s)

[Hotride.2187]

14 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Eles in pvp are starting to feel like fighting an expensive celestial wvw Ele, some nigh invulnerable battering ram.

Have you switched your build maybe? Fighting a good fire weaver on node feels like fighting cele weaver in wvw yeah (worse even cause they dont rely so much on boons and the node doesnt have much room to kite), but that is for me on spb. Staying in melee is only possible for a bit.

Though I do remember vaguely reading about some change on the ele subforum...

Here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/113854-theory-build-aristocracy-hammer-catalyst/?do=findComment&comment=1644125

 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[CutesySylveon.8290]

I despise fighting Catalyst primarily because of all the stability they poop. Otherwise, I can’t say. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Anyone else notice god tier Ele builds appearing lately?

Strange no one in the forum is bringing this up.

It's definitely a thing as of recently.

 

 

 

Catalyst fixes several of the grievances that have been keeping core eles from playing, and now some of the more aggressive builds are returning. 

God tier no, but definitely an example of what you can get with just a little mechanical nudge. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Kuma.1503]

Hmm... maybe I should share my builds more often

[Stallic.2397]

Idk, I'm having a pretty good time with Cata and Earth trait line. 

 

But I wouldn't call it God tier. It can carry battles better than weaver or core can but can't carry idiocy. Lol. 

[Downstate.4697]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAYlRgNyaYo45Pd2+B-zZJsEUdA

 

Ran this for about 150 games this season. I can sit in earth with an earth shield and hold a node 1v1 vs anything that isnt condi and cc heavy. It also has 4 sources of magnetic aura and I can almost completely invalidate any ranged builds in a team fight and I also have a ton of soft and hard cc options.

Also LR catalyst has too high damage numbers. Ive seen grim take over half of someones health from 1 tornado skill. 

Grims core signet ele is also a pretty good side noder.

Tl&DR

Trevor is kind of right. Ele has a lot of builds to fit situations because of how versatile they are, but arent being noticed because only a few people play ele at a high level. A bad ele will be farmed and a good one will farm.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

52 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAYlRgNyaYo45Pd2+B-zZJsEUdA

 

Ran this for about 150 games this season. I can sit in earth with an earth shield and hold a node 1v1 vs anything that isnt condi and cc heavy. It also has 4 sources of magnetic aura and I can almost completely invalidate any ranged builds in a team fight and I also have a ton of soft and hard cc options.

Also LR catalyst has too high damage numbers. Ive seen grim take over half of someones health from 1 tornado skill. 

Grims core signet ele is also a pretty good side noder.

Tl&DR

Trevor is kind of right. Ele has a lot of builds to fit situations because of how versatile they are, but arent being noticed because only a few people play ele at a high level. A bad ele will be farmed and a good one will farm.

That's what I'm talking about right there.

They have enough options now to tweak themselves to be nigh invulnerable for whatever situation they are in. I notice it the most in the ffa when I duel actual good Eles. They can take 10s to swap a few things around, come back down, and essentially be invulnerable vs. whatever you're running. And of course they can do this same thing before matches begin. It's getting to be a bit too much.

As a Ranger player, I notice that Catalyst specifically has waaay too much anti-projectile. While dueling Poelala, he was running a build that very seriously was pushing out some inordinate amount of anti-projectile like 80% - 90% uptime. It's not just enough anti-projectile to where it can be used wisely, no it's so much anti-projectile to where it invalidates the use of Longbow or Shortbow completely, leaving a Ranger with only 1 weapon set to work with. There isn't even a reason to use your projectile based weapon sets against these builds like this they have so much anti-projectile. It has to be dealt with by pure melee, channels, or ground target AoEs. Worst part yet, is that anyone standing with the Ele also benefits that large amount of anti-projectile. Wise players use the Ele as moving LOS pretty much. More players are learning how to really abuse this lately and it is quite exploitive. And anyone who wants to respond to this post can INB4 "uR jUsT a MaD rAnGeR MaIn" because it isn't just Rangers that are designed mostly around projectile use. Other specs that rely around projectile use: Dragonhunters, Engineers, PD Thieves, Deadeyes, Specter, Harbinger, most Mesmer clone strikes, and various other attacks/effects skewed around on all classes. Eles lately are nearly immune to all of this. It's getting to be too much.

Then when you do go full melee, let's say you try to 1v1 it with a Spellbreaker. They have too much stab and still too much passive CC "Shock Aura". It's getting to be too difficult to land any CC for an opener to deal damage. Then when something like the Spellbreaker messes up ONCE, somehow these newer Ele builds despite being S tier sustain, still are dishing out heavily punishing DPS that can rip into someone and gut out 50% of a health bar in a single attack. Worst part here is that it is not slow. They are able to stay on top of and chase most classes for kills, outside of the classes that have direct ground target disengage or a lot of stealth.

 

Stating it again: Fighting a good Ele lately feels like fighting an adamantine boulder where the only counter-play is to just avoid it.

People in the forums and in-game seem to be hard focused on complaining about Mechanist still, but truthfully good Ele players are still harder to get off a node than any Mechanist and twice as dangerous in terms of their threat range to actually be able to kill you.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Wild.1705]

Yeah, I've noticed the annoying ele thing for a bit now too. They play a semi damaging build and then they decide to not take damage for long stretches of time. All of a sudden un the middle if a fight I attack them and they take 0 damage, followed by 0 damage, followed by 0 damage, and while they are doing that they are on fire rushing you down for free damage. It not OP or anything, but it's not exactly  what I would call healthy for the game mode.

[Wild.1705]

The thing I hate most is when they put on a frost aura and briefly afk to take a drink of water. Then you hit them from like 1200 range and have the chilled condition applied to you from an afk player with no counter play. I hope the intern that designed that mechanic was removed for the ArenaNet staff.

[Vancho.8750]

31 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That's what I'm talking about right there.

They have enough options now to tweak themselves to be nigh invulnerable for whatever situation they are in. I notice it the most in the ffa when I duel actual good Eles. They can take 10s to swap a few things around, come back down, and essentially be invulnerable vs. whatever you're running. And of course they can do this same thing before matches begin. It's getting to be a bit too much.

As a Ranger player, I notice that Catalyst specifically has waaay too much anti-projectile. While dueling Poelala, he was running a build that very seriously was pushing out some inordinate amount of anti-projectile like 80% - 90% uptime. It's not just enough anti-projectile to where it can be used wisely, no it's so much anti-projectile to where it invalidates the use of Longbow or Shortbow completely, leaving a Ranger with only 1 weapon set to work with. There isn't even a reason to use your projectile based weapon sets against these builds like this they have so much anti-projectile. It has to be dealt with by pure melee, channels, or ground target AoEs. Worst part yet, is that anyone standing with the Ele also benefits that large amount of anti-projectile. Wise players use the Ele as moving LOS pretty much. More players are learning how to really abuse this lately and it is quite exploitive. And anyone who wants to respond to this post can INB4 "uR jUsT a MaD rAnGeR MaIn" because it isn't just Rangers that are designed mostly around projectile use. Other specs that rely around projectile use: Dragonhunters, Engineers, PD Thieves, Deadeyes, Specter, Harbinger, most Mesmer clone strikes, and various other attacks/effects skewed around on all classes. Eles lately are nearly immune to all of this. It's getting to be too much.

Then when you do go full melee, let's say you try to 1v1 it with a Spellbreaker. They have too much stab and still too much passive CC "Shock Aura". It's getting to be too difficult to land any CC for an opener to deal damage. Then when something like the Spellbreaker messes up ONCE, somehow these newer Ele builds despite being S tier sustain, still are dishing out heavily punishing DPS that can rip into someone and gut out 50% of a health bar in a single attack. Worst part here is that it is not slow. They are able to stay on top of and chase most classes for kills, outside of the classes that have direct ground target disengage or a lot of stealth.

 

Stating it again: Fighting a good Ele lately feels like fighting an adamantine boulder where the only counter-play is to just avoid it.

People in the forums and in-game seem to be hard focused on complaining about Mechanist still, but truthfully good Ele players are still harder to get off a node than any Mechanist and twice as dangerous in terms of their threat range to actually be able to kill you.

The new specs have easy access to kitten ton of self buff boons and CDs, a lot of access to quickness and alacrity while everything older got the nerf bat and has like a 1 second quickness max or if they have quickness uptaime they have max 3 other boons probably fury and might with a sprinkle of stability.

With all the mobility creep on top of the sustain and damage creep from the passives and boons, playing anything Technical is pointless cause you will get spammed out of existence, this could be fixed by bumping the CDs up since as we saw Willbender was bad before they reduced the CDs and now it is OP.
We are back on the PoF boon galore meta but the anti boon specs are garbage now. The issue is not "Balance" it is mostly terrible game design on skills and functions and total lack of vision or regards to rules they set themselves up, so we end up all of crap slinging at the wall till something "works" while everything else stands in the bottom of the crapper. 

[Khalisto.5780]

feelsbad, it seems i got too lazy to learn this cool stuff while i keep playing my fire weaver

Edited April 24, 2022 by Khalisto.5780

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Is staff catalyst with quickness playable in gold 3? Can staff cat get quickness? I don't have eod so I can't really check it out.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

It may seem powerful to you, but try actually playing an Ele in PvP.

 

- As a Tempest, you're immediately blamed for the loss even if its your team's fault for not peeling enemies off you, saying that you should be able to survive anything as "the game's ultimate bunker", even a Deadeye or Ranger taking all your health away in a 2-3 hits with a Vitality amulet. Magnetic Aura has good uptime but its not infinite like players seem to think it is. (Tempests often rely almost entirely on objects).

Teammates often don't even understand how the build works either, and want you to stop attacking and start healing even though generating auras through combat are how the Tempest heals and gives boons and cleanses; their direct healing (Water attunement) is actually weaker HPS-wise.

Minions provide additional heals, boons and CC but are often referred to as "trashcan solo play". I've received nasty messages just for having an Ice Elemental out for the Chill spam on point.

- As a Weaver, if you don't survive for 10,000 years on the sidenode, its your fault the team is losing, and a Weaver playing any other role in the game (they're actually good teamfighters) is forbidden.

- As a Catalyst, no one even knows what you're supposed to be doing and act like they don't know how to help you. Catalyst is usually a DPS booner/team fighter. Which is a role that Ele has generally never played and one that players don't understand.

This results in low support form others, who still expect you to bunker, which in turn leads to relying on Water and Earth and significantly lowering your (and your team's) damage.

 

Playing Ele is strong if you're skilled and the enemy doesn't know how to counter it, but its also miserable alot of the time as they can be hard-countered in so many ways. There's weaknesses at all builds that simply don't exist on some other classes like Core Guardian or Revenant (Herald mostly).

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[DanAlcedo.3281]

From my perspective, Ele as a class was always been a B Tier class in a world of S Tiers. 

But when you start to nerf everything and nerf more and even more, a B Tier class suddenly seems viable. 

We see that in Wvw especially. There, Ele was always the second best option for everything, so obviously nobody played it. But now with everything being so (over) nerfed, Ele starts to see much more play as the tier placement between builds and classes became so muddy. 

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Cata is decent overall but its still one of the weakest EoD specs. Its good at everything but great at nothing. Fireweaver is useless in this meta, LR weaver is sort of in the same place as cata but with worse defense. Tempest is a good support if your team can help keep you alive. Core ele is bad.

[Grimjack.8130]

3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

From my perspective, Ele as a class was always been a B Tier class in a world of S Tiers. 

But when you start to nerf everything and nerf more and even more, a B Tier class suddenly seems viable. 

 

 

this has been eles spot for an extemely long time ye, but its better than u think it is

its basically s tier, but its countered by the s tier.

its too easily countered (lr has no cleanse, fire is weak outside of 1v1 roles, tempest cant deal with both types of damage at once)(i could go on)
etc etc ele is absolutely broken, but arguably can be the 2nd worst class in the game(sorry mesmers) at the same time

just look at EoD launch, I was personally seeing 3-4 Eles a game somedays, as it is very good into PowerHarb, Vindi, and Spectre which were very popular in Plat at the time. Then the recent balance patch hit and Condi Harb and Willbender take over and they omega counter every ele variant. Omega broken 1 day, unplayable the next(when it also got considerably buffed). Very odd.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

9 minutes ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

this has been eles spot for an extemely long time ye, but its better than u think it is

its basically s tier, but its countered by the s tier.

its too easily countered (lr has no cleanse, fire is weak outside of 1v1 roles, tempest cant deal with both types of damage at once)(i could go on)
etc etc ele is absolutely broken, but arguably can be the 2nd worst class in the game(sorry mesmers) at the same time

just look at EoD launch, I was personally seeing 3-4 Eles a game somedays, as it is very good into PowerHarb, Vindi, and Spectre which were very popular in Plat at the time. Then the recent balance patch hit and Condi Harb and Willbender take over and they omega counter every ele variant. Omega broken 1 day, unplayable the next(when it also got considerably buffed). Very odd.

I personally rated Ele as the worst class in the game for years because it was almost never the best option for anything. 

Always second/third place for every role in every game mode. 

But now? Actually a good choice. 

[pallas.8150]

I tend to top in Damage and Kills consistently and I main a Weaver, soooo.... 🤷‍♂️