Why do you die in battle? Difficulty or...

[Radagast.9403]

Hey.

 

I die sometimes to trahs mob be it normal bunch of them or a veteran or whatever as well as in story boss battles. Most of the time i notice i die because some design choices on the game which are not difficulty based, but  seem to be based on mental endurance of player. Like i am explorin some PoF area.. I try to stop at a beautiful spot to watch the sceberyt, but a mob comes to tap on my shoulder saying "No no.. You cant stop here" I fight the mob and often the battle and evasions pull more mobsd. The battle itself is not really difficult at all, its the health pool that begins to build frustration and the sheer amount of mobs that are everywhere and everything hostile and those that are neutral, are harder to kill than actual hostile and you end up battling that ram too, because some ability just hit it accidently. When the last of the bunch is dead, its very fast when everything sdpawns back. No watching scenery and no traveling on foot because on foot you have to fight most of the time and fdights take time. There is no time to stop and watch the beautiful sceneryu, take screenshots in peace and really take a time on that campfire. Frustration builds up, i get the feeling "Not again, go away stupid mob and just dont have interest to put the necessary attention to battle which results in death and more frustration.

 

There are many interesting ruins and caves and whatever place i really want to explore in detail and look at small things placed there, but the density of mobs, the health pools and all that makes it too irritating to do.

 

In storu boss battle, the frustration is again the reason of death.. The battle feels epic for the first 5 minutes, then you start to gte bored and think "Why this has to take so long, i just repeat the same stuff over and over again, its not epic anymore, its a chore you just want to get done, but in some battles, the first boss kill or defeat leads some more boss mobs tro spawn in groups, thenm more and more and i think what the heck.. Why all of these have to take so long, attention wanders, the story behind the battle gets forgotten and also the npc speak the commanders mates and the enemmies do start not to matter. I just want it done. I die at the end phases often not because the battle is difficult, but because im tired, nored and frustrated because of the legth of the battle..

 

Core Tyria however, is nice to explore. There is this other problem where things are often too easy, but at this point for me it should feel like that, core Tyria IS for beginners after all and it should not pose a big challenge most of the time...

 

It just feels like the open world could use a more relaxed approach. Cantha seems to have that, so im happy with how that  goes, theres actually time to relax, its just that this needs to be implemented to older areas as well.  One could argue that level 80 zones are "End ghame", but is endgame about constant combat against trash mobs that dont even drop anything good most of the time or should it be about some REAL challenges in some specific areas of the map where is either a special mob that may even travel around the mob like raiding party opr a boss that has more complec mechanics and requires coordination.

 

By challenge i do not mean the way bnattles are now, where the trash ai seems to be mostly about knockbacks and "cpomplex" just means theres plethora of overlapping aoe attacks that ecven get barely noticeable because all the effects and circles from players and npc's overlap so much. What i mean is real surprosing mechanics, not pre patterned aoe attack but something like the boss have various abilities and special atytacks, it uses randomly and even reacts to players abilities.

 

Regarding the story battles, why take so long, that the battle like one where we should be fighting to save Taimi from suffication inside scruffy ending up not payuing attention to Taimi and her pain, but ending up in battle that you just want to be over and then you dont have time to speak with the rest of the npc's because clock is too much and you need to go somewhere. I think 5 minutes should be maxim,um a story battle should take before it starts to get too repetative and frustrating. 

 

I really would like to die in battle because im not good enough, noty because i get bored to the combat.

[Gibson.4036]

Is it possible you’re building your characters too defensively? It sounds like a contradiction, but trying to build too tanky can actually make the game harder by lengthening fights and giving more time for mobs too accumulate on you.

[Radagast.9403]

I do tend to build a bit more on defense to keep my character more easily alive meaning, that i can stand on that nice place for at least a while and let the sand lion scratch her clawsd on my leg while i do that. Its just that i dont want to kill everything everywhere and even when i do, the respawn trimes ARE rather fast so theres not much time to really relax. Like when i fish, that krait or shark just come very often to gnarl my boats keel and i just need to jump in thje water to kill the thing too often to actually be at peace. Not to mention that fishing bar also keeeps me from watching the area or char but thats another conversation 🙂

 

Its like i sometimes miss old Arathi highlands with all the raptors in WoW since its too empty now and then theres the other end here, wherte its even worse at times that Atathi was at it peak when it was actually fun since you could really do the pulöling play well and keep thje amount of raptors on you reasonably low. Here its just that when you pull something, it pulls other mobs from quite a long distance too and then theres the knockbacks and stuff which leads to more mobs coming at you. This is what i call as "Sand shark/Hydra phenomenona" where you end up flying all arounbd the area becauser mobs are playing soccer withj you. Its sometimes even quite funny 😄 At least to the point where the first hydra respawns and you fly to its mouth which apparently is a goal.

[Rauderi.8706]

GW2 has a big problem with inflicting crowd control (CC) effects on the player without any decreasing gains. And there are enough enemies with singular attacks that push/daze/stun/blind that it's very noticeable. 

 

There needs to be a wide sweep in the entire game to update enemy skills and AI so it's more robust and uses more of the combat system. 

[Kate.3679]

I can't remember the last time I died in open world where I wasn't afk. And I only run around on pve raid dps builds

[Omega.6801]

I die from a lot of things that mostly boil down to not paying attention and/or biting off more than I can chew.

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Radagast.9403 said:

Like when i fish, that krait or shark just come very often to gnarl my boats keel and i just need to jump in thje water to kill the thing too often to actually be at peace. 

 

I've seen other people mention this, and I don't know why my experience has been so different. I do the catch of the day almost every day I log in, so I spend 10 to 30 minutes fishing. I almost never have mobs attack my boat. I think they're going to, and then they just swim on by beneath me.

It would be nice if skiffs only aggroed mobs that have a reasonable motivation, for lack of a better word, to do so. Leviathans and massive broodmothers could realistically see a skiff as a meal or a threat, but there's no reason for skelk to be interested in attacking a boat they encounter over their heads.

1 hour ago, Radagast.9403 said:

Here its just that when you pull something, it pulls other mobs from quite a long distance too and then theres the knockbacks and stuff which leads to more mobs coming at you. This is what i call as "Sand shark/Hydra phenomenona" where you end up flying all arounbd the area becauser mobs are playing soccer withj you. Its sometimes even quite funny 😄 At least to the point where the first hydra respawns and you fly to its mouth which apparently is a goal.

Path of Fire has been notorious for it's long aggro ranges, like Heart of Thorns is notorious for its mob density. Both areas, story wise, are intended to be very treacherous, so it's never bothered me.

I still feel on edge in HoT because of the need for constant awareness, though the verticality with the trees provides spots you can springer or skyscale up to and take a breath without any danger.

I've gotten used to PoF enough that it feels casual to me in most areas. There's enough places one can park and be still once you get to know the zones. The thing I always think about in regards to this conversation is how you can get ambushed by the wandering hydra in the middle of doing the djinn HP in Sifuri Sand Sea. The first time I did it it seemed like a ridiculous HP. Ever since, I've hunted down that dumb hydra (and that handful of sand lions) before starting the HP, and it goes smooth.

On the whole, I'd rather more zones feel like PoF than like Seitung and New Kaineng in their threat, because over time I can learn to relax in the former, while the latter end up quickly feeling empty and dead.

[Gibson.4036]

10 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

I die from a lot of things that mostly boil down to not paying attention and/or biting off more than I can chew.

LOL, the other day I was doing core story instances with my daughter. I was downed on my Mirage in a level 60ish instance to a bunch of random risen.

This is the same character that mows down packs of HoT mobs and solos some champs. After a moment of, "What in the world?" I realized I had totally turned off my brain and was not paying attention at all.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Kaukomieli.6740]

I die to lods of things including

- hard to detect (or time the dodging of) and often chained by multiple mobs CCs and disables and being immediate swarmed to death

- AoE clusters + huge swarms of enemies during metas especially, I have difficulty paying attention to many things at once in general.

- being shot down from a flying mount and not being able to deploy a glider in time 😂

- inconsistently difficult veterans / champions / elites? Some are REALLY inconsistent in difficulty.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Kaukomieli.6740
Posted too soon

[Hashberry.4510]

I like the mob aggro though it can get overwhelming if you are careless. The OW needs tough areas as well as relaxing ones.

[Radagast.9403]

9 minutes ago, Kaukomieli.6740 said:

I die to lods of things including

- hard to detect (or time the dodging of) and often chained by multiple mobs CCs and disables and being immediate swarmed to death

 

 

 

The CC of the mobs, mainly stun and knockdowns are the bnig problem sometimes. It feels like theres litle thought on dev side put to what mobs groups consist of.

 

Lke in Elder Scrolls Online or many others as well, there are also CC the mobs do, but its usually one or two mobs in a grouyp. Unlike in GW2 where a wholöe group of 6 can consist of npc's who all can knockdown or stun you which leads to running out of counter and being swarmed yto death especially in some classes/builds.

 

Id like if the GW2 system of creating groups were more like Elder Scrolls, where there is usually a healer, some CC and most of the group is basic attackers. In this case when even lots of enemies come, you can tyactically down the healers and CC first, then proceed to the bigger hroup with less danger.

 

[costepj.5120]

I believe there is also a link between toughness and aggro; can anyone comment on how significant that link is in open world? Does high toughness mean you are maybe more likely to get attacked?

[kharmin.7683]

5 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

I believe there is also a link between toughness and aggro; can anyone comment on how significant that link is in open world? Does high toughness mean you are maybe more likely to get attacked?

I do know that the AI will tend to go after the target with the higher armor rating.  I've seen that happen a lot when running around with guildies.

[Gibson.4036]

55 minutes ago, Kaukomieli.6740 said:

 

- being shot down from a flying mount and not being able to deploy a glider in time 😂

 

In the middle of the mostly pointless IBS masteries, mount stealth is a game changer. I love it so much, I've been known to shout out "Mount Stealth" whenever I use it.

Probably to the annoyance of my kids who have not yet leveled their IBS masteries. 😄

Edited May 11, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Radagast.9403]

17 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

I believe there is also a link between toughness and aggro; can anyone comment on how significant that link is in open world? Does high toughness mean you are maybe more likely to get attacked?

GW2W  says about toughness, that is one contributing factor in deciding NPC agression, so keeping that in mind, it may also increase the aggro radius.

 

I usually build high toughness characters if i want the enemis to come ofter me instead of someone else, like if i want to roleplay a character who wanders around and helps people in battle needing aid. High Toughness helps me get the enemies on me.

[Ledi.9742]

my most common reasons of deaths:

- difficulties related to my disabilities. usually either because my fine motor control sucks, and my hands refuse to cooperate with me to press the buttons i need to, or i get momentarily overwhelmed because there is too much going on, and for a while i am completely unable to understand what i am seeing on monitor.

- getting swarmed by little too many opponents for me to handle on my own (looking at that one roller beetle rider who zoomed past me, and pulled a bunch of elites on me while i was trying to carefully take them out in chunks i could handle)

- ...and embarrassingly often i die because i got distracted

Edited May 11, 2022 by Mutisija.5017

[Jukhy.2431]

Since I don't do fractals, raids or wvw/pvp most of my deaths happen in metas and other open world boss fights, usually caused by taking too much AoE damage or taking big hit I failed to avoid. Altho more often than not I'm one of the players who doesn't get downed. Can't remember the last time I died doing story or just exploring in open world so it's rare.

I'm a casual player but I do know the builds I'm using, most enemies I face and I try have my toons well geared. I mostly play with condi soulbeast and GS reaper but lately been also enjoying the mechanist. And if going gets too rough I might embrace that noblest of p̶i̶r̶a̶t̶e̶ hero traditions: fight! ..to run away!

[Ashen.2907]

Mostly in WvW.  Sometimes in the Kaineng Overlook strike when people with red circles run behind Minister Li rather than dodging the big slash out in the center. But I am not bitter.

[Infinity.2876]

In eod I die A lot more from fast respawn times than in core game.

Cc effects, big choreographed attacks that do lots of damage, not being able to find the safe zone in time, numbers, checking my inventory in inopportune times, and not being able to see where my character due to animations all contribute. And also those stupid dominion snipers when you don't have Mount stealth yet........

[Stx.4857]

Usually when I die, it's because I made the poor decision to bite off more than I can chew.  I'm not good at knowing when to take a step back and recover before re-entering the fray.

[deadsyeren.9583]

Usually, if I die it's because I took on more than I should have or afk/tab out.

 

I do agree some maps are too insane with mob density. They need to clear some of the roads so you can at least stop and enjoy the scenery a little bit. Or I may have to jump up to handle something RL but there's no where to stop and I am stuck in combat until I can find somewhere. For me it's most problematic in any of the HoT areas.

[Xelqypla.6817]

Usually die to uninvited extras. Some enemy types turn a simple combat into a grueling ordeal.

 

 

[Fuchslein.8639]

5 hours ago, Radagast.9403 said:

Hey.

 

I die sometimes to trahs mob be it normal bunch of them or a veteran or whatever as well as in story boss battles. Most of the time i notice i die because some design choices on the game which are not difficulty based, but  seem to be based on mental endurance of player. Like i am explorin some PoF area.. I try to stop at a beautiful spot to watch the sceberyt, but a mob comes to tap on my shoulder saying "No no.. You cant stop here" I fight the mob and often the battle and evasions pull more mobsd. The battle itself is not really difficult at all, its the health pool that begins to build frustration and the sheer amount of mobs that are everywhere and everything hostile and those that are neutral, are harder to kill than actual hostile and you end up battling that ram too, because some ability just hit it accidently. When the last of the bunch is dead, its very fast when everything sdpawns back. No watching scenery and no traveling on foot because on foot you have to fight most of the time and fdights take time. There is no time to stop and watch the beautiful sceneryu, take screenshots in peace and really take a time on that campfire. Frustration builds up, i get the feeling "Not again, go away stupid mob and just dont have interest to put the necessary attention to battle which results in death and more frustration.

 

There are many interesting ruins and caves and whatever place i really want to explore in detail and look at small things placed there, but the density of mobs, the health pools and all that makes it too irritating to do.

 

In storu boss battle, the frustration is again the reason of death.. The battle feels epic for the first 5 minutes, then you start to gte bored and think "Why this has to take so long, i just repeat the same stuff over and over again, its not epic anymore, its a chore you just want to get done, but in some battles, the first boss kill or defeat leads some more boss mobs tro spawn in groups, thenm more and more and i think what the heck.. Why all of these have to take so long, attention wanders, the story behind the battle gets forgotten and also the npc speak the commanders mates and the enemmies do start not to matter. I just want it done. I die at the end phases often not because the battle is difficult, but because im tired, nored and frustrated because of the legth of the battle..

 

Core Tyria however, is nice to explore. There is this other problem where things are often too easy, but at this point for me it should feel like that, core Tyria IS for beginners after all and it should not pose a big challenge most of the time...

 

It just feels like the open world could use a more relaxed approach. Cantha seems to have that, so im happy with how that  goes, theres actually time to relax, its just that this needs to be implemented to older areas as well.  One could argue that level 80 zones are "End ghame", but is endgame about constant combat against trash mobs that dont even drop anything good most of the time or should it be about some REAL challenges in some specific areas of the map where is either a special mob that may even travel around the mob like raiding party opr a boss that has more complec mechanics and requires coordination.

 

By challenge i do not mean the way bnattles are now, where the trash ai seems to be mostly about knockbacks and "cpomplex" just means theres plethora of overlapping aoe attacks that ecven get barely noticeable because all the effects and circles from players and npc's overlap so much. What i mean is real surprosing mechanics, not pre patterned aoe attack but something like the boss have various abilities and special atytacks, it uses randomly and even reacts to players abilities.

 

Regarding the story battles, why take so long, that the battle like one where we should be fighting to save Taimi from suffication inside scruffy ending up not payuing attention to Taimi and her pain, but ending up in battle that you just want to be over and then you dont have time to speak with the rest of the npc's because clock is too much and you need to go somewhere. I think 5 minutes should be maxim,um a story battle should take before it starts to get too repetative and frustrating. 

 

I really would like to die in battle because im not good enough, noty because i get bored to the combat.

Yeah, i think this is mainly about your'e build.

99% of my builds are Raid-builds. Glas canon and Enemys fall in seconds and i never had issues with Story-Mobs taking to long to kill. The Problems i have is what you are talking about pulling. Somteimes there are to much mobs and i don't pay attention or i'm pulling more than i actually wanted.

When i die, it's just my own fault, because i often stroll trough the open world and look at nice scenery but don't pay attention to mobs.
I feel you with this "Open world needs a more relaxed approach", i hate the Range of POF-Mobs. But yeah, the spots with high mob-densety are mostly story-wise battlegrounds so it makes sense. Makes annoying sense.

I don't say you should play a Raid build, but you should look for a Build which makes more dmg and put your'e defense more in your Skills or play a class which is more tanky from the start, like Necro.

[Khisanth.2948]

2 hours ago, costepj.5120 said:

I believe there is also a link between toughness and aggro; can anyone comment on how significant that link is in open world? Does high toughness mean you are maybe more likely to get attacked?

I used to use clerics on two characters for years without encountering any sort of extra aggro issue so I would say that is one of those things people just use as an excuse.

The only thing that is known to target high toughness is certain(not all) raid bosses.

People somehow interpreted the dev comment from long ago about toughness being one of the factors that influence aggro to mean toughness is the only factor and always used when we know this is not true. For example it is pretty well known that Matriarch in VB uses distance. This is actually a problem because some people think staying at range will make a fight easier/safe when in fact they are making it harder for themselves in some cases because being at range triggers more annoying and/or dangerous skills.

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Radagast.9403 said:

I fight the mob and often the battle and evasions pull more mobsd.

See, you're saying this is "not because of difficulty", but then you seem to understand that you sometimes die ingame due to pulling more mobs during fighting another one. As far as I understand, awareness of your surroundings and careful/more deliberate movement is also something you can improve at, at which point it is part of a difficulty level that can -and should- be adapted to.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Sobx.1758