Dear PvP Devs. These things should take priority over nerfs.

[Kuma.1503]

Lets forget for a second about which builds are meta.  

Just make the user experience in this game better. 

If a class feels like garbage to play, that should be prio #1 to fix. If your game isn't fun, it's failed at it's one job. Unless you're trying to be like "Getting over it" and Rage/Frustration is part of the intended experience. 

Things that make classes feel like garbage:

• Terrible / Overnerfed Traitlines (Tools, Firearms, Warrior)
• Terrible / Overnerfed Utilities (Turrets, Gadgets, also Warrior)
• Terrible / Overnerfed Weapons ( Staff Ele, Thief Staff, Engi Pistols, Rifle, Shield, also just... Warrior)
• Extremely inneficient cooldowns or resources ( 300 Sec CDs. Rev energy costs. Thief initiative costs)
• Overnerfed damage on skills (CC damage change, Lol Warrior)
• Buggy, disfunctional skills ( Dragon Trigger skills whiffing, Blink going off in place, Projectiles not tracking properly, Projectiles not being reflectable when they should. Tools traitline not working on Mechanist in PvP/WvW... also no underwater Mech. )
• Neglected outdated skills that are never given updates (PSA: Other specs besides Guardian need this)

These things have been neglected for years in favor of smiters booning things Anet or the community dislike. It's bred a lot of dissatisfaction within the community, and it shows. It's time to put these nerfs to an end and start fixing. 

Contrary to what some seem to believe, no amount of nerfs are going to fix these core issues. It simply spreads the misery to more people. See: the PvP population drop-off post Feb 2020. 

If something breaks in the process tune it down afterward. Just make sure everything functions as it should. Build a solid foundation for every class first and foremost. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Anet finna be like: "That's crazy my man, but who asked?"

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

Wait theres PvP Devs? I thought it was just "Dev" as in one....

 

[Gundam Style.8495]

Yes, they need to empower more of the old stuff by fixing it or just straight up making it good.

[anbujackson.9564]

I like how you put warrior in general in almost every aspect. Feels bad.

[Myror.7521]

Dont forget the resistance rework get never followed on some classes Utilitys (lol warrior 2.0) xD

 

P.S. Idk if i Read the over all path i would say ........

 

 

 

 

 

 

Berserker is a decent Support in every gamemode 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah for Real xD. If you dont get that warr is by far the hardest nerfed class (i dont mean the most i mean the hardest *Look at ele mains*) then bru idk who you are but remove your tomatoes from your eyes xd!

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

5 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Lets forget for a second about which builds are meta.  

Just make the user experience in this game better. 

If a class feels like garbage to play, that should be prio #1 to fix. If your game isn't fun, it's failed at it's one job. Unless you're trying to be like "Getting over it" and Rage/Frustration is part of the intended experience. 

Things that make classes feel like garbage:

• Terrible / Overnerfed Traitlines (Tools, Firearms, Warrior)
• Terrible / Overnerfed Utilities (Turrets, Gadgets, also Warrior)
• Terrible / Overnerfed Weapons ( Staff Ele, Thief Staff, Engi Pistols, Rifle, Shield, also just... Warrior)
• Extremely inneficient cooldowns or resources ( 300 Sec CDs. Rev energy costs. Thief initiative costs)
• Overnerfed damage on skills (CC damage change, Lol Warrior)
• Buggy, disfunctional skills ( Dragon Trigger skills whiffing, Blink going off in place, Projectiles not tracking properly, Projectiles not being reflectable when they should. Tools traitline not working on Mechanist in PvP/WvW... also no underwater Mech. )
• Neglected outdated skills that are never given updates (PSA: Other specs besides Guardian need this)

These things have been neglected for years in favor of smiters booning things Anet or the community dislike. It's bred a lot of dissatisfaction within the community, and it shows. It's time to put these nerfs to an end and start fixing. 

Contrary to what some seem to believe, no amount of nerfs are going to fix these core issues. It simply spreads the misery to more people. See: the PvP population drop-off post Feb 2020. 

If something breaks in the process tune it down afterward. Just make sure everything functions as it should. Build a solid foundation for every class first and foremost. 

This. 100% this.

 

Making underpowered/dysfunctional things functional *is* creating new content.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Good suggestions that would be an actual "good step in the right direction."

Unlike the 2/2020 patch where that phrase came from.

[Sereath.1428]

Very good post 🧡

For once, forget about trying to balance around MATs, because first of all MAT and Ranked are very different.
And second of all the vast majority of players are not in plat an above.
Sure, take the MAT meta in consideration but don't exclusively "balance" around it. Don't exclusively "balance" around the bottom either, just stop focusing on metas so much. To me it just seems that they focus way too hard on how to kill off metas just to keep it "fresh", because of how often they overshoot with nerfs and buffs with no care for collateral damage (core).

Focus on uncrippling the numerous traits, weapons and utilities that have been nerfed to death just because one build happened to use them during a tournament. So many skills were nerfed once and left dead for years, it's so depressing.

Edited May 15, 2022 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Anet has 100% committed to balancing classes for casual pvers so they can beat strikes by auto attacking. We will see what the june patch does but I really doubt they are ever going to start caring about core class balance again.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Anet: We heard your concerns. So we nerfed all classes again, nerfed Warrior extra hard, nerfed a non meta Ele build and buffed necro. 

 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

10 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Lets forget for a second about which builds are meta.  

Just make the user experience in this game better. 

If a class feels like garbage to play, that should be prio #1 to fix. If your game isn't fun, it's failed at it's one job. Unless you're trying to be like "Getting over it" and Rage/Frustration is part of the intended experience. 

Things that make classes feel like garbage:

• Terrible / Overnerfed Traitlines (Tools, Firearms, Warrior)
• Terrible / Overnerfed Utilities (Turrets, Gadgets, also Warrior)
• Terrible / Overnerfed Weapons ( Staff Ele, Thief Staff, Engi Pistols, Rifle, Shield, also just... Warrior)
• Extremely inneficient cooldowns or resources ( 300 Sec CDs. Rev energy costs. Thief initiative costs)
• Overnerfed damage on skills (CC damage change, Lol Warrior)
• Buggy, disfunctional skills ( Dragon Trigger skills whiffing, Blink going off in place, Projectiles not tracking properly, Projectiles not being reflectable when they should. Tools traitline not working on Mechanist in PvP/WvW... also no underwater Mech. )
• Neglected outdated skills that are never given updates (PSA: Other specs besides Guardian need this)

These things have been neglected for years in favor of smiters booning things Anet or the community dislike. It's bred a lot of dissatisfaction within the community, and it shows. It's time to put these nerfs to an end and start fixing. 

Contrary to what some seem to believe, no amount of nerfs are going to fix these core issues. It simply spreads the misery to more people. See: the PvP population drop-off post Feb 2020. 

If something breaks in the process tune it down afterward. Just make sure everything functions as it should. Build a solid foundation for every class first and foremost. 

Ya this is exactly what the game needs, if not all it needs.

 

aside from making everything functional and adding to what you said, uniqueness is key. The more unique things are the more those things are chosen for their unique qualities and what they offer over other options.

 

last thing is tradeoffs…these need to exist but not on elite specialization mechanics and but on individual skills and traits. Not just any kind but a dynamic kind that encourages players to think about skill usage rather than passive skill usage.

 

it might take a while but these are the necessary steps to get the game in the right place…of only so much time hadn’t been wasted on the original flawed premise maybe we would be somewhere by now.

[ShionKreth.1542]

30 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Anet: We heard your concerns. So we nerfed all classes again, nerfed Warrior extra hard, nerfed a non meta Ele build and buffed necro. 

 

I don't know what it says when my mind goes to the exact same place... but it can't be something good.

[semak.7481]

Dont think they overnerfed engi shield, it got a well deserved for what it does. Better late than never, I guess?

18 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

If a class feels like garbage to play, that should be prio #1 to fix.

 

Mesmer core was over-nerfed to the groud to bring elite specs down (inluding ridiculous core vigor trait that every other similar vigor on crit remains 5/10 when mesmer is 2.5/10). But suddenly its wrong when this happens to your main. (Its super easy to trim elite spec that overperforms but why would you do things that makes sense?! Or at least when it doesnt concern necro/guardian).

Chrono identity was stolen and given out for free, super conditional CS on 90s cd as e-spec mechanic is a joke (even mirage is better chrono than chrono himself). Or memerage with 1 evade, but thief has 3, both especs have "better" evades but one got +1 and the other -1. 
TLDR the entire class is garbage and frustrating to play but not a single word about it ?

Warrior (not core/berserk) is not as terrible as this forum claims it to be

[Terrorhuz.4695]

32 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

Dont think they overnerfed engi shield, it got a well deserved for what it does. Better late than never, I guess?

 

Mesmer core was over-nerfed to the groud to bring elite specs down (inluding ridiculous core vigor trait that every other similar vigor on crit remains 5/10 when mesmer is 2.5/10). But suddenly its wrong when this happens to your main. (Its super easy to trim elite spec that overperforms but why would you do things that makes sense?! Or at least when it doesnt concern necro/guardian).

Chrono identity was stolen and given out for free, super conditional CS on 90s cd as e-spec mechanic is a joke (even mirage is better chrono than chrono himself). Or memerage with 1 evade, but thief has 3, both especs have "better" evades but one got +1 and the other -1. 
TLDR the entire class is garbage and frustrating to play but not a single word about it ?

Warrior (not core/berserk) is not as terrible as this forum claims it to be

What THE kitten is a chrono

[Kuma.1503]

5 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

Dont think they overnerfed engi shield, it got a well deserved for what it does. Better late than never, I guess?

Shield was good on the elites, but wasn't close to enough to carry core. 

Core needed a lot of work before Anet nerfed their only strong/functional weapon. 

For example, making MH pistol (the only weapon you can use with shield) functional. Poison dart volley should hit moving targets. Fragmentaion shot doesn't properly apply its bleeding in an AoE despite having an AoE explosion. 

Quote

Mesmer core was over-nerfed to the groud to bring elite specs down (inluding ridiculous core vigor trait that every other similar vigor on crit remains 5/10 when mesmer is 2.5/10). But suddenly its wrong when this happens to your main. (Its super easy to trim elite spec that overperforms but why would you do things that makes sense?! Or at least when it doesnt concern necro/guardian).

Chrono identity was stolen and given out for free, super conditional CS on 90s cd as e-spec mechanic is a joke (even mirage is better chrono than chrono himself). Or memerage with 1 evade, but thief has 3, both especs have "better" evades but one got +1 and the other -1. 
TLDR the entire class is garbage and frustrating to play but not a single word about it ?

Warrior (not core/berserk) is not as terrible as this forum claims it to be

I'm not familiar with Mesmer's patch history. If there's more you'd like to share, it's on to-topic so feel free to do so. 

As for Chrono, I've spoken up about it in the past, but It doesn't hurt to repeat it. 

ANet have stated that Chrono is underperforming in the sustain department. It's too frail, and they don't know how to give it sustain without making it play like every other class. They're looking for ways to give it active sustain, something fitting for a mesmer. 

...Kind of like Distortion. 

That mechanic they removed from Chrono in their misguided attempt to add arbitrary "trade-offs" to Elite specs. 

But yknow... adding it back would be admitting that their implementation of trade-offs was flawed from the get go. 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Khalisto.5780]

If they dont fix this 300 sec traits in this june patch, they just wont do it

[Curennos.9307]

Please yes. I am so tired of dealing with all the *jank* build-up in this game. I don't care if a number needs to be 20% higher or lower by god I just want it to *work*.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Curennos.9307

[semak.7481]

4 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I'm not familiar with Mesmer's patch history. If there's more you'd like to share, it's on to-topic so feel free to do so. 

As for Chrono, I've spoken up about it in the past, but It doesn't hurt to repeat it. 

ANet have stated that Chrono is underperforming in the sustain department. It's too frail, and they don't know how to give it sustain without making it play like every other class. They're looking for ways to give it active sustain, something fitting for a mesmer. 

...Kind of like Distortion. 

That mechanic they removed from Chrono in their misguided attempt to add arbitrary "trade-offs" to Elite specs. 

But yknow... adding it back would be admitting that their implementation of trade-offs was flawed from the get go. 

 

Could have forgotten something, have fun reading

Weapons:

Scepter is slow, clunky, very high cooldowns.

Staff 3 phantasm used to do damage, now its cant, its just there doing at best 1-2k (used to be 2 phantasms for more clones but someone wanted mesmer to die for real, so its back to 1) on zerk amu, on ... 18s cd? High quality joke from anet At least they updated chaos armor, that thing is cool now, they nerfed staff5 in the past... Not a fond of that.

Sword offhand phantasm is slower than a turtle and gotta run to its target from your location and damage is low af.

Torch phantasm 30s cd and it takes eternity for phantasm to finish its attack, so you can run behind it and it will be still cating.

Sword MH - sword 2 (you could compare it to pistol whip but the latter is a stun and repeatable and does way more damage than BF) is mere stationary evade when other evades have mobility on them and way more damage than this joke. Swoop, rocket charge on scrapper, monarch leap on ranger, sd thief 3rd skill, burning speed can do 7k damage from ele while evading and moving forward (may be some other skills exists I dont remember).

GS is servers one purpose, ambush burst, arguably not healthy when it come from PU mesmer, you dont know if its there. Imo it needs redesign. GS5 is a joke,25s cd for a push that works 50/50 and doesnt work on elevation (if someone above you) when HAMMER5 on guardian got massively reduced in cd which is incomparably better than this joke, god, replace it with something that works, pls, also the entire kit there is no defense whatsoever.

 

You know, I dont want to dig every single nerf, but if I'd have to the list would be pretty big.

I wont tell you ever single nerf it had, or every single trait that I consider trash, it would be faster to name few that I think are okay, lol. Behold the nerfs that I think massively hit mesmer viability (I hate what they did to chrono traits)

 

Spoiler

 

1. Evasive mirror (dueling mid tier), was OP on mirage, bad on core/chrono, dont remember which cd was, 1.5s ? After nerf became 10.
2. Dueling trait same position as EM-> blind on shatters(became blind on f2 only, 25s yay)  felt bad because you are playing fragile light armor class that cant sustain like an ele or just facetank it like necro does, that hurt power builds the most.
3. Alrdy mentioned critical infusion(dueling minor) - all traits that proc vigor on crit provide 5s/10s cd but mesmer 2.5 (literally chopped 50% of it, mind you they always go for extremes, utility phantasms, shield, mirage evade...?).
4. Chaos GM - Chaos interruption - everyone loved to be interrupted and immobilized, so it was straight up deleted and replaced with nothing which does nothing even today. Like come on, you deleted a trait, replace it with something at least.
5. Both utility phantasms had 50% damage reduction, shield4 on chrono 50% damage reduction. 
6. Daze on f3 (38s cd) is gone, so you cant setup burst and gotta pray he wont just dodge because he seeing you or just random evade (some can argue it was necessary I'll just leave it)
7. Mantra nerfs, they took away charge time, but forgot that FB dont need to charge them for benefit but mesmer does, heal doesnt heal anymore, daze mantra doesnt reduce f3 cd (which used to do so, so taking away nice things and counterplay to said skills, a long cast time). Daze mantra - to use it you have to stare on a person, if he is slightly off your vision, it wont let you use it. So if you still get cucked by mantra, thats totally on you.
8. Some traits were straight up deleted in the past (ironically, traitline name is INSPIRATION but traits themselves are completely uninspired.)
9. They buff scepter 3 (25% and 1 more strike) and then smite it by 50%. From 9k on power(I believe it was chrono with some might) it became 4k on zerk or something, cant remember.
10. Delayed reactions on chrono, used to be 3s slow and 2s alacrity and GM - lost time, applied slow on CC and around 200 damage and had 100% crit damage multiplier on crits (so it was like 1.5k crits? Cant remember). Deleted and replaced with garbage that chrono has now- 3s alacrity on 3 seconds cd when you apply slow... Basically split delayed reactions, took out alacrity and slapped as a GM trait (why it has kitten 3s cd? Not like chrono has insane access to slow, does anyone know that 3s of alacrity is like a bit better than 1s chill? Like 25% cd reduction per second vs 66% cooldown increase and movement speed?), while deleted light version of LightningRod.

Honorable mentions : 

Dueling - first trait choice -Desperate decoy 120s cd (stealth on 50% health). Who need passive traits on such cds? Illusionary Defense - GM trait in inspiration - 90s, creates taunting phantasm.

 

 

Shortly what they did to chrono - took away ability to self shatter, so your ~1300 hp clones are blown left and right, imagine playing revenant with cap of energy of 10 and most of times its 0, nice gameplay, isnt it ?

Because of chrono core was nerfed MANY times. Its main feature of having alacrity is gone to other classes. CS is 90s cd, and its the elite spec MAIN FEATURE?! SUPER CONDITIONAL - either you are close to full hp and have all ur best cooldowns ready or its useless, either you die or you wont be able to make use of such massive cooldown. And chrono have all cd's and you dont have all your defensive cds or at least one channeled block, it may feel unfair, I bet chrono feels the same when CS split being wasted cuz you were stunned mid cast or he sees someone to use channeled block.

Its wells are worst wells that exists, scrapper have his wells glued to him, why not do the same with chrono?

 

Contrary to popular believe mirage has no tradeoffs - you cant cover distance with your evades and cripple/chill affects you. You may disagree whatever. What was the problems? Ambush clone damage was long af by default, what they had to do is to force mesmer to take offensive traitlines instead of bunkering up with chaos when it was bombarded with nerfs, literally pushing it into finding something that works and it was that.Once again, you can argue it was broken, so other specs too at that point of time, iirc it was when zan was meme'ing without weapons on holo in ranked and rolling over mirage's right and left, what a time... 

 

What is played now by Misha is PB roamer and he can only run for his life, its painful to watch someone of his caliber, the best mesmer in the game is being c*cked so hard and when he tries to kill someone he barely can finish someone, especially painful was when 50% hp pressured rev w/o heal turns around and nearly kills him when he had all cds and 100% health, so he had to leave rev alone. Not even top players.

So as a result, lots of nerfs to core, axe,base vigor, mirage vigor, ambush trait for confusions(not missing that one) and the most ridiculous solution that was suggested on the forum and actually done - REMOVING A DODGE, leaving it with A ONE DODGE, ONE. Daredevil has better evades but its 3 bro, what is that?

 

Virtuoso is just a whole new level of bad imo, 99.9% of mesmer players wish that wouldnt ever happened. 

Its done by someone who hates mesmers, took everything that all everyone hate and removed it - Clones ? Gone, instant shatters? Gone, weapon has no evades / no mobility or boons or conditions. 

Downsides:

Spoiler

 

Clones are gone. So new players wont be lost anymore. 

New shatters do not track.  So imagine your target decides to move 1 inch left/right/any direction and your shatter can no longer hit, some say it does now, idk.

Gotta get 5 blades to be effective, unlike other mesmer specs.

To shatter need to face a target.

Shatters have a cast time. (Because its not fair that all shatters need no cast time! So unfair...! /s)

Must take unblockable shatter trait or else you wont be playing the game because everything virtuoso does are projecties. When anti projectiles/reflects are dropped you cant play the game and turns a fight/game/whatever into 5v4.

Lost distortion, now unblockable tear your main defense apart and conditions which mesmer inheritely weak as well, now you gotta take utility or face some consequences.

Heal and all utilities and elite except invul  are bad.

F3 is worthless waste of daggers, F4 is channeled block of fixed duration despite description says some nonsense (from illu traitline that says it extends duration).

Dagger is useless outside of melee range, and its a 1200 ranged weapon bois. 

Traitline itself is dueling 2.0,  spec has boosted fury without decent fury access, nice meme. Traits are bad imo.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by semak.7481

[Kuma.1503]

20 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

Could have forgotten something, have fun reading

Weapons:

Scepter is slow, clunky, very high cooldowns.

Staff 3 phantasm used to do damage, now its cant, its just there doing at best 1-2k (used to be 2 phantasms for more clones but someone wanted mesmer to die for real, so its back to 1) on zerk amu, on ... 18s cd? High quality joke from anet At least they updated chaos armor, that thing is cool now, they nerfed staff5 in the past... Not a fond of that.

Sword offhand phantasm is slower than a turtle and gotta run to its target from your location and damage is low af.

Torch phantasm 30s cd and it takes eternity for phantasm to finish its attack, so you can run behind it and it will be still cating.

Sword MH - sword 2 (you could compare it to pistol whip but the latter is a stun and repeatable and does way more damage than BF) is mere stationary evade when other evades have mobility on them and way more damage than this joke. Swoop, rocket charge on scrapper, monarch leap on ranger, sd thief 3rd skill, burning speed can do 7k damage from ele while evading and moving forward (may be some other skills exists I dont remember).

GS is servers one purpose, ambush burst, arguably not healthy when it come from PU mesmer, you dont know if its there. Imo it needs redesign. GS5 is a joke,25s cd for a push that works 50/50 and doesnt work on elevation (if someone above you) when HAMMER5 on guardian got massively reduced in cd which is incomparably better than this joke, god, replace it with something that works, pls, also the entire kit there is no defense whatsoever.

 

You know, I dont want to dig every single nerf, but if I'd have to the list would be pretty big.

I wont tell you ever single nerf it had, or every single trait that I consider trash, it would be faster to name few that I think are okay, lol. Behold the nerfs that I think massively hit mesmer viability (I hate what they did to chrono traits)

 

  Hide contents

 

1. Evasive mirror (dueling mid tier), was OP on mirage, bad on core/chrono, dont remember which cd was, 1.5s ? After nerf became 10.
2. Dueling trait same position as EM-> blind on shatters(became blind on f2 only, 25s yay)  felt bad because you are playing fragile light armor class that cant sustain like an ele or just facetank it like necro does, that hurt power builds the most.
3. Alrdy mentioned critical infusion(dueling minor) - all traits that proc vigor on crit provide 5s/10s cd but mesmer 2.5 (literally chopped 50% of it, mind you they always go for extremes, utility phantasms, shield, mirage evade...?).
4. Chaos GM - Chaos interruption - everyone loved to be interrupted and immobilized, so it was straight up deleted and replaced with nothing which does nothing even today. Like come on, you deleted a trait, replace it with something at least.
5. Both utility phantasms had 50% damage reduction, shield4 on chrono 50% damage reduction. 
6. Daze on f3 (38s cd) is gone, so you cant setup burst and gotta pray he wont just dodge because he seeing you or just random evade (some can argue it was necessary I'll just leave it)
7. Mantra nerfs, they took away charge time, but forgot that FB dont need to charge them for benefit but mesmer does, heal doesnt heal anymore, daze mantra doesnt reduce f3 cd (which used to do so, so taking away nice things and counterplay to said skills, a long cast time). Daze mantra - to use it you have to stare on a person, if he is slightly off your vision, it wont let you use it. So if you still get cucked by mantra, thats totally on you.
8. Some traits were straight up deleted in the past (ironically, traitline name is INSPIRATION but traits themselves are completely uninspired.)
9. They buff scepter 3 (25% and 1 more strike) and then smite it by 50%. From 9k on power(I believe it was chrono with some might) it became 4k on zerk or something, cant remember.
10. Delayed reactions on chrono, used to be 3s slow and 2s alacrity and GM - lost time, applied slow on CC and around 200 damage and had 100% crit damage multiplier on crits (so it was like 1.5k crits? Cant remember). Deleted and replaced with garbage that chrono has now- 3s alacrity on 3 seconds cd when you apply slow... Basically split delayed reactions, took out alacrity and slapped as a GM trait (why it has kitten 3s cd? Not like chrono has insane access to slow, does anyone know that 3s of alacrity is like a bit better than 1s chill? Like 25% cd reduction per second vs 66% cooldown increase and movement speed?), while deleted light version of LightningRod.

Honorable mentions : 

Dueling - first trait choice -Desperate decoy 120s cd (stealth on 50% health). Who need passive traits on such cds? Illusionary Defense - GM trait in inspiration - 90s, creates taunting phantasm.

 

 

Shortly what they did to chrono - took away ability to self shatter, so your ~1300 hp clones are blown left and right, imagine playing revenant with cap of energy of 10 and most of times its 0, nice gameplay, isnt it ?

Because of chrono core was nerfed MANY times. Its main feature of having alacrity is gone to other classes. CS is 90s cd, and its the elite spec MAIN FEATURE?! SUPER CONDITIONAL - either you are close to full hp and have all ur best cooldowns ready or its useless, either you die or you wont be able to make use of such massive cooldown. And chrono have all cd's and you dont have all your defensive cds or at least one channeled block, it may feel unfair, I bet chrono feels the same when CS split being wasted cuz you were stunned mid cast or he sees someone to use channeled block.

Its wells are worst wells that exists, scrapper have his wells glued to him, why not do the same with chrono?

 

Contrary to popular believe mirage has no tradeoffs - you cant cover distance with your evades and cripple/chill affects you. You may disagree whatever. What was the problems? Ambush clone damage was long af by default, what they had to do is to force mesmer to take offensive traitlines instead of bunkering up with chaos when it was bombarded with nerfs, literally pushing it into finding something that works and it was that.Once again, you can argue it was broken, so other specs too at that point of time, iirc it was when zan was meme'ing without weapons on holo in ranked and rolling over mirage's right and left, what a time... 

 

What is played now by Misha is PB roamer and he can only run for his life, its painful to watch someone of his caliber, the best mesmer in the game is being c*cked so hard and when he tries to kill someone he barely can finish someone, especially painful was when 50% hp pressured rev w/o heal turns around and nearly kills him when he had all cds and 100% health, so he had to leave rev alone. Not even top players.

So as a result, lots of nerfs to core, axe,base vigor, mirage vigor, ambush trait for confusions(not missing that one) and the most ridiculous solution that was suggested on the forum and actually done - REMOVING A DODGE, leaving it with A ONE DODGE, ONE. Daredevil has better evades but its 3 bro, what is that?

 

Virtuoso is just a whole new level of bad imo, 99.9% of mesmer players wish that wouldnt ever happened. 

Its done by someone who hates mesmers, took everything that all everyone hate and removed it - Clones ? Gone, instant shatters? Gone, weapon has no evades / no mobility or boons or conditions. 

Downsides:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Clones are gone. So new players wont be lost anymore. 

New shatters do not track.  So imagine your target decides to move 1 inch left/right/any direction and your shatter can no longer hit, some say it does now, idk.

Gotta get 5 blades to be effective, unlike other mesmer specs.

To shatter need to face a target.

Shatters have a cast time. (Because its not fair that all shatters need no cast time! So unfair...! /s)

Must take unblockable shatter trait or else you wont be playing the game because everything virtuoso does are projecties. They will decide that you cant play this game and turns a game into 5v4.

Lost distortion, now unblockable tear your main defense apart and conditions which mesmer inheritely weak as well, now you gotta take utility or face some consequences.

Heal and all utilities and elite except invul  are bad.

F3 is worthless waste of daggers, F4 is channeled block of fixed duration despite description says some nonsense (from illu traitline that says it extends duration).

Dagger is useless outside of melee range, and its a 1200 ranged weapon bois. 

Traitline itself is dueling 2.0,  spec has boosted fury without decent fury access, nice meme. Traits are bad imo.

 

 

Appreciate the contribution, while it's no guarantee that Anet will see it, they have been receptive to forum feedback in the past. The more people talk about this, the greater the chance that they get the message. 

Core mesmer is definitely in the bottom tier of core specs. 

Whether it's worse than core ele/engi is debatable, but when you're in the bottom 3 regardless, there's no point in arguing who's the king of the trash heap, all three classes need work. 

Going  over core mesmer's weapons and traits would simultaneously target all 3 elites as well, and each could use attention for varying reasons. 

As for Mirage, it seems they're doubling down on the One Dodge Man meme. They just released vindicator with one super powered dodge, so what their plans are there is anyone's guess. 

 

 

[semak.7481]

3 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Appreciate the contribution, while it's no guarantee that Anet will see it, they have been receptive to forum feedback in the past. The more people talk about this, the greater the chance that they get the message. 

Core mesmer is definitely in the bottom tier of core specs. 

Whether it's worse than core ele/engi is debatable, but when you're in the bottom 3 regardless, there's no point in arguing who's the king of the trash heap, all three classes need work. 

Going  over core mesmer's weapons and traits would simultaneously target all 3 elites as well, and each could use attention for varying reasons. 

As for Mirage, it seems they're doubling down on the One Dodge Man meme. They just released vindicator with one super powered dodge, so what their plans are there is anyone's guess. 

 

 

Why vindicator works? It has super boosted vigor, it has retribution that puts to shame chaos traitline in effectiveness, further boosting vigor gain and way way higher uptime of vigor. 

It was made in mind that it will has only one evade. Mirage? No, they double nerfed vigor sources - mirage minor and core minor - further pushing it into chaos.

Mind you, mesmer is a light armor class like an ele, but unlike ele, you dont reach ele level of damage when you go nuts with zerk amu. Neither sustain like an ele (tbh power ele kinda struggled when sustain as well when went zerk but I'm not an ele expert by any means, all I know that I hate LR and perma weakness :>)

[Kuma.1503]

16 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

Why vindicator works? It has super boosted vigor, it has retribution that puts to shame chaos traitline in effectiveness, further boosting vigor gain and way way higher uptime of vigor. 

It was made in mind that it will has only one evade. Mirage? No, they double nerfed vigor sources - mirage minor and core minor - further pushing it into chaos.

Mind you, mesmer is a light armor class like an ele, but unlike ele, you dont reach ele level of damage when you go nuts with zerk amu. Neither sustain like an ele (tbh power ele kinda struggled when sustain as well when went zerk but I'm not an ele expert by any means, all I know that I hate LR and perma weakness :>)

 

As far the super-vigor goes, there is one very important distinction to make between Vindi and Mirage, and it's one I personally dislike because the game does such a poor job of communicating this. 

Both Vindi and mirage have 1 dodge bar.

But Vindi has 100 endurance

Mirage has 50. 

Take away all sources of endurance generation and Vindi has half as many dodges as Mirage, yet Vindi  managed to find a place for themselves in the meta.

This should speak to how important it is to have good core weapons, good core trait lines, and a functional all-around package.

If they had actually taken the time to give some love back to core mesmer (which had previously been nerfed around elites) and rework mirage to work around its new trade-off the One-dodge meme could have worked, instead they slapped this nerf together and left the mesmer community to pick up the scraps and find something salvageable from it. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[semak.7481]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

 

As far the super-vigor goes, there is one very important distinction to make between Vindi and Mirage, and it's one I personally dislike because the game does such a poor job of communicating this. 

Both Vindi and mirage have 1 dodge bar.

But Vindi has 100 endurance

Mirage has 50. 

Take away all sources of endurance generation and Vindi has half as many dodges as Mirage, yet Vindi  managed to find a place for themselves in the meta.

This should speak to how important it is to have good core weapons, good core trait lines, and a functional all-around package.

If they had actually taken the time to rework mirage to work around its new trade-off the One-dodge meme could have worked, instead they slapped this nerf together and left the mesmer community to pick up the scraps and find something salvageable from it. 

I'd blame cmc right away. Mirage never meant to have 1 evade, it was suggested right on this forum but not even in nightmares I could believe someone would be so...du...*coughcoughcough* to apply and make fun of 1 evade mirage and tailswipe right on streams (Which still slaps for 7k instead of 10k on light armor, a progress!)

But you have a point. Good weapons and solid traitlines and you are good to go. 

Core engineer doesnt have a good mainhand thats for sure.

Edited May 16, 2022 by semak.7481

[otto.5684]

Anet PvP balance devs: “this too much work. Do you know how long it would take our intern to code all these changes?”

[bethekey.8314]

 

5 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

Downsides:

  Hide contents

 

Clones are gone. So new players wont be lost anymore. 

New shatters do not track.  So imagine your target decides to move 1 inch left/right/any direction and your shatter can no longer hit, some say it does now, idk.

Gotta get 5 blades to be effective, unlike other mesmer specs.

To shatter need to face a target.

Shatters have a cast time. (Because its not fair that all shatters need no cast time! So unfair...! /s)

Must take unblockable shatter trait or else you wont be playing the game because everything virtuoso does are projecties. When anti projectiles/reflects are dropped you cant play the game and turns a fight/game/whatever into 5v4.

Lost distortion, now unblockable tear your main defense apart and conditions which mesmer inheritely weak as well, now you gotta take utility or face some consequences.

Heal and all utilities and elite except invul  are bad.

F3 is worthless waste of daggers, F4 is channeled block of fixed duration despite description says some nonsense (from illu traitline that says it extends duration).

Dagger is useless outside of melee range, and its a 1200 ranged weapon bois. 

Traitline itself is dueling 2.0,  spec has boosted fury without decent fury access, nice meme. Traits are bad imo.

 

Not to derail the thread further or anything...Aren't you listing normal things every other class deals with as downsides?

 

I was reading this and started laughing:

- Clones are gone. So new players wont be lost anymore. Like every other class.

- New shatters do not track.  So imagine your target decides to move 1 inch left/right/any direction and your shatter can no longer hit, some say it does now, idk. Like every other class' projectiles.

- Gotta get 5 blades to be effective, unlike other mesmer specs. Your traits make this ridiculously easy.

- To shatter need to face a target. Like the vast majority of targeted abilities.

- Shatters have a cast time. (Because its not fair that all shatters need no cast time! So unfair...! /s) Like the vast majority of abilities. And sometimes abilities without a listed cast time have one (overcharged shot anyone?)

- Must take unblockable shatter trait or else you wont be playing the game because everything virtuoso does are projecties. When anti projectiles/reflects are dropped you cant play the game and turns a fight/game/whatever into 5v4. Welcome to the world Core Engi has been living in since Day 1 friend. Try running a pistol/rifle grenade build into Necro/Tempest/Guardian teams.

- Lost distortion, now unblockable tear your main defense apart and conditions which mesmer inheritely weak as well, now you gotta take utility or face some consequences. Like every other class with blocks.

 

The other stuff idk/idc.

Edited May 16, 2022 by bethekey.8314