Would you be ok with an in-game DPS-meter if it only showed your own numbers?

[Lucy.3728]

On 6/6/2022 at 2:06 PM, lokh.2695 said:

Hi there,

basically what the topic says.

Would you be ok with an in-game DPS-meter, given it would only show your own metrics? Most arguments against DPS-meters are that 1) ppl feel spied upon and 2) that ppl fear exclusion if their numbers don't fit whatever other players see as "good DPS". Now if the meter only showed personal numbers I think both these arguments stop to matter.

Discuss.

I'd like that. I always wonder whether some of my chars do too little dps compared to others with same basic gear.  I'd like it split in condition damage and rest damage.

I'd also like to see the amount of heal too. And how my support skills affect others. It is better to support others with boons or better to do more dmg myself. Means when I play herald, whether stick to Glint and its teambuffs or switch around which I usually do but maybe sticking to buffs is better.

And how effective is my cc. How high is the failrate. And how often is it useless.

 

Tried ARCdps, but that's too complicated and I don't know how correct it is. Once I set it up with with help but then EoE got released and screw it.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Lucy.3728

[Tukaram.8256]

10 hours ago, White Kitsunee.4620 said:

Players won't understand the fun of a system until you show it to them. To me, the biggest failing of GW2 has been crafting a beautiful combat system then throwing it away but not giving people anything to stress it against.  I wouldn't say ANET made good open world mobs until PoF. Those parties of Balthazar minions where fairly well designed and how mobs should have been designed from the start.

Before then. Open world mobs either did nothing (core) or were annoying to fight (HoT)

So many people arent interested in that kind of content because so many of them don't understand how fun and engaging it can be because GW2 has never onced asked that of them. That's why difficult content needs to be put in the open world. I'm not asking for the whole thing to become a murderfest, I just want parts of the map let players experience the joys of the combat system, solo. That way they don't have to find a party for fractals or dungeons, they don't have to find a guild for raids, and they don't have to find strike missions.

I think the core issue is that many players are content to just leave out major parts of the game because they don't have to do them. If ANET could both teach these players how to succeed in those formats and have fun with them, then we could see a huge rate of player attention being brought throughout many different game types again.

Edit: forgot to explain about the DPS meter lol. People that play this game aren't going to enjoy a feature they see no value in. In fact as you can see from this thread many people would be in fact be upset by this addition. Until ANET manages to make these player enjoy the kinds of content that a DPS meter would benefit, then it would be purely a net-loss for the community at large. But after Anet does that then it will be a gain for the community.

A major point you forgot.  Your idea of fun is not a universal idea of fun. I have been playing MMORPGs since 1997.  I know what playstyle, and game mode, I enjoy.  I play for my idea of fun - you play for yours.  GW2 does a very good job of supporting multiple playstyles and game modes. You are not going to "teach" me to like another. Such is life. 😎

[Ashantara.8731]

12 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Yeah, because Reshade don't work with anything the game provide, as far as i know.

That is true. I just couldn't think of any other add-on of that sort besides Arc that is being used. I don't think they'd be allowed, either. 😉

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

That is true. I just couldn't think of any other add-on of that sort besides Arc that is being used. I don't think they'd be allowed, either. 😉

🌮

[Ashantara.8731]

11 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

🌮

I can't even make out what that is, sorry! 😋

But enlighten me on add-ons then. I really don't know anyone personally who uses anything besides ReShade (or an equivalent), YoloMouse, and/or Arc.

[Erise.5614]

14 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I can't even make out what that is, sorry! 😋

But enlighten me on add-ons then. I really don't know anyone personally who uses anything besides ReShade (or an equivalent), YoloMouse, and/or Arc.

They were talking about GW2 Tactical Overlay (short, taco). It's technically not an addon but an independent application that just runs in the background. And when GW2 runs it will display an overlay above the game client. Usually just works after an ANet update. 

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I can't even make out what that is, sorry! 😋

But enlighten me on add-ons then. I really don't know anyone personally who uses anything besides ReShade (or an equivalent), YoloMouse, and/or Arc.

That is a TacO icon 😁

[maxwelgm.4315]

I don't think Anet should spend resources they already don't have enough of into wholly unnecessary DPS meters. To mention some other things we don't have but sorely needed: extreme lack of UI/UX design/locked UI with no proper customization, LFG in a sorry state since its release, core functionalities of squad/party composition like boon uptime and availability simply non-existent. Their development in systems was heavy up until HoT but has been lagging since then in favor of actual content in the form of LW.

 

A DPS meter should be and hopefully is the lowest of low priorities simply because there is no critical gameplay issues esteeming from the lack of one in more than 95% of the entirety of the content available in-game. If it was a raid centered game and raids had as much weight or even more than LW content, sure, I'd even consider it absurd if we didn't have a DPS meter on that case. But in its current state GW2 is absolutely above and beyond this sort of implementation.

[Luthan.5236]

Not really. I mean ... I would not be against it. Third party tools are not nice. And people trying to check others with those. A more interesting thing would be to have really detailed stats. With actually the dps split by skills, conditions and damage type. Stuff like that. Uptime of the boons you gave to yourself. (Not taking into account other boons given by others - that you might not get at a stable pace especially if playing open world moving around randomly.)

But just dps? Would not really need it most of the time I guess. Just roughly noticing whether I kill thrash in open world fast enough for my taste. (If not ... then adjusting build.)

Edited June 13, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Abnaxos.4305]

On 6/10/2022 at 1:27 PM, Linken.6345 said:

We already have this it is called special forces training area.

 

I had a look at it, perfect. The biggest failing is that it isn't advertised. Even knowing what I'm looking for and consulting the Wiki, it took me quite a while to find it.

 

Are you guys complaining about missing DPS meter aware that you've probably got the best built-in DPS measuring tool in the MMO world?

 

14 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

I don't think Anet should spend resources they already don't have enough of into wholly unnecessary DPS meters. To mention some other things we don't have but sorely needed: extreme lack of UI/UX design/locked UI with no proper customization, LFG in a sorry state since its release, core functionalities of squad/party composition like boon uptime and availability simply non-existent. Their development in systems was heavy up until HoT but has been lagging since then in favor of actual content in the form of LW.

 

This! The UI/UX is in dire need of a complete overhaul. For new players, the whole UX is just baffling. You get used to all the quirks, but there are still many no-goes like requiring the player to use the mouse in many situations.  LFG is pretty much useless its current state.

[Dante.1508]

On 6/11/2022 at 1:49 AM, Nephalem.8921 said:

Extremely selfish and short sighted point of view. Imagine you are in a group and struggle really hard to kill a boss. damage too low so you start replacing the tempest because in theory tempest does low damage. but what if the tempest was top dps and the 3 scourges did 2k each? no way to tell without a dps meter. this happened before dps meters. you just kicked necros, rangers etc instead of fixing the issue.

Also another very important part. raids are not about you. they are a team effort. some players spend a lot of time improving dps, heal or boons while others don't care at all but are also always the players who want to hide their stats so they can still get a free carry.

Don't play team games if you don't want to be a team player.

How is it abuse to know how much each group member is contributing to the party? Aren't you abusing 9 other players when you are contributing nothing and still expect them to carry you?

Ever played sports? Every team game in existence monitors your performance because its not fun for 1-2 people to do everything and you still want to win.

You know exactly what i mean and no i hate sports, you really think i'd be playing GW2 if i loved Sports? I'm not competitive in the slightest. I don't care who wins in sport and Gw2 as its its a pointless thing to strive for.

I do not like hardcore content thats not why i play games and i do not get a sense of accomplishment out of hardcore gaming.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Tukaram.8256]

2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

You know exactly what i mean and no i hate sports, you really think i'd be playing GW2 if i loved Sports? I'm not competitive in the slightest. I don't care who wins in sport and Gw2 as its its a pointless thing to strive for.

I do not like hardcore content thats not why i play games and i do not get a sense of accomplishment out of hardcore gaming.

Exactly. And there are a lot of us just like that. 😎

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

You know exactly what i mean and no i hate sports, you really think i'd be playing GW2 if i loved Sports? I'm not competitive in the slightest. I don't care who wins in sport and Gw2 as its its a pointless thing to strive for.

I do not like hardcore content thats not why i play games and i do not get a sense of accomplishment out of hardcore gaming.

1 hour ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

Exactly. And there are a lot of us just like that. 😎

So you're probably already not playing that content, at which point it's rather hard to say why you care about the existance of dps meter.

[Vayne.8563]

I used to be more against DPS meters, but I've come around on the issue.  It wouldn't matter if the hard content didn't exist in the game, but it does. And having a personal meter would be helpful. I don't like using external add ons and seldom do. I've occassionally used overlays but not the DPS meter. If it was in game, I would use it though.

 

I do think it should be a personal meter, not a group thing, but all things considered, people who don't use one really have no concept of how hard they're being carried in content.

[Kaukomieli.6740]

I would not mind an in-built DPS meter if it only showed my own numbers - the golem is out of the way and doesn't really represent a real combat situation very well. However, I do not have an active wish for this to be implemented, I just would not mind if it DID happen.

 

Implementing in-game party/squad DPS meters (or DPS summaries after metas and fractals and stuff like someone suggested earlier in the thread) without a way to opt out of being shown on them entirely would be a significant blow to my enjoyment of the game however - the feeling of being compared or competing (even when I'm winning!) gives me anxiety that I do not need when I'm playing just for the funsies and already avoiding the content where big numbers and performance actually matter. IF these meters were only limited to what's "hardcore content", then would not care, doesn't affect me, but like, don't want them to be everywhere all the time.

[SlayerXX.7138]

Like many stated before a in game Dps meter is pointless as Dps is context sensitive. With nothing to compare it to it isn't much use. For Single dps there is the raiding training which did get more accessible with the last patch which is a good step forward. Arcdps does everything someone could want besides not breaking after updates. There is also the classic dps meter of hitting mobs that are not affected by scaling and seeing how fast they die. As the chance of arcdps getting axed after they introduce their own Damage meter isn't zero, pls no dps meter besides arc.

[SuavePuppy.2809]

It's a valuable tool for the more demanding content (raids, strike CMS, fractal CMS), but so much of the game doesn't require it. I don't know how much of a benefit it provides versus how much people will just use it to be rude.

But if you're in challenging content, you should expect to have your DPS looked at, or else people just blindly point fingers. And we have Arc for that.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I do think it should be a personal meter, not a group thing, but all things considered, people who don't use one really have no concept of how hard they're being carried in content.

That's why it should either be no dps meter, or a group one. Personal dps does not do a thing, because it gives you as much context about your own performance as seeing no dps values at all. It only has meaning if you have something to compare it with. At the same time forcing those dps meters down the throats of people that do not want to have anything to do with them is also a bad option. Which is why i think that the current situation (no dps ingame, but a third-party option available for those that feel they need it) is probably the best solution available.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Vayne.8563]

19 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's why it should either be no dps meter, or a group one. Personal dps does not do a thing, because it gives you as much context about your own performance as seeing no dps values at all. It only has meaning if you have something to compare it with. At the same time forcing those dps meters down the throats of people that do not want to have anything to do with them is also a bad option. Which is why i think that the current situation (no dps ingame, but a third-party option available for those that feel they need it) is probably the best solution available.

Well, a third party meter doesn't work for me. I'm all about convenience. The idea of installing and uninstalling add-ons after patches doesn't help me at all, and I'm absolutely convinced that most people won't even go looking for it.

An in game tool will allow people at least improve their own numbers, even if they don't know anyone else's. I've had too many issues using add-ons to bother with them most of the time. I prefer something in game, because it will supposedly work when the game is updated.  That's a better options for me.

 

I actually don't care if it has damage for the team anyway, since other 3rd party programs will track that anyway, so it's not like my contribution would be hidden, but I'm aware of the number of people against it, so I thought a single party one would be a decent compromise.

I know about what I should be doing, and if I had a personal damage meter, I would if I was or wasn't meeting that target. As it is now, I ask other people in party with me to let me know how much dps I'm doing.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 6/12/2022 at 7:10 PM, Silent.6137 said:

That is a TacO icon 😁

Ahhh! 😄

[Cyninja.2954]

Just to rebuke the argument that a personal dps meter is of no use because it lacks context:

That's  incorrect.

A personal dps meter, not visible to any one else, while far less valuable than a group one, still can provide useful data. Players can still make use of this information, even if not directly having feedback about how others are doing (yes, dps performance will be contextual).

 

Having a direct input on how one performed gives players a value to work with, especially in context of what is often used value wise on forums or in debates. It evens gives players an ability to measure their own performance against themselves from other fights. 

 

Doing so will eventually lead to players potentially wondering and questioning how their performance comes to be even when doing everything exactly the same (which might lead to a better understanding of boons, stats, traits, etc.).

 

It also allows players to compare their performance to others without having "a feeling of being spied on".

 

Now this can also backfire or be counter productive. If a player sees his performance is weaker, yet does not find the interest of desire to understand why that is or improve, they just might lose interest or be discourage of playing the game. Not every player will want to actually become semi decent at a leisure activity.

 

Me, I've always advocated for: more information is better, paired with a reasonable push to let players understand that information and put it into context. Both to encourage performance as well as discourage pushing performance expectations unreasonably high.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Raizel.8175]

What is the use of a DPS meter if you can't compare your DPS with other people thus knowing if your own DPS is either good or bad?

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

What is the use of a DPS meter if you can't compare your DPS with other people thus knowing if your own DPS is either good or bad?

If people can opt it out , then ok .

Lets make a dps addon , were if you have enbled-installed it , then you get tracked and you  messure who has the "longest number".

If some1 will "force" me to enable it , then i guess it will another form of LI , were i can simply avoid it and play were the majority are .

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

If people can opt it out , then ok .

Lets make a dps addon , were if you have enbled-installed it , then you get tracked and you  messure who has the "longest number".

If some1 will "force" me to enable it , then i guess it will another form of LI , were i can simply avoid it and play were the majority are .

 

I would prefer people having to opt-in.  Having this turned off by default.

[Vayne.8563]

5 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

What is the use of a DPS meter if you can't compare your DPS with other people thus knowing if your own DPS is either good or bad?

I don't need to compare DPS to other people to look up benchmarks. And you know, I don't care if everyone I'm with is a super team doing 30k because I'm not doing 30 k.  But I do aim to do 12-15k most of the time in end game content and I'm satisfied with that. So are the people I play with.  What if everyone else in my team sucks and I do well. Does what does that tell me?