Confirmed Quickness for Herald and Ventari rework

[Telgum.6071]

Revenant: Legendary Centaur Stance skills and Salvation traits have been updated to better support healing roles, while herald will now be able to provide quickness to allies with the trait Draconic Echo.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-june-2022/

[vilesoldier.9826]

If this means consuming any Glint utility will now give some amount of quickness.....

...

I gotta stop daydreaming, I'll see y'all on Friday 👋

Edited June 22, 2022 by GeneralBM.5781

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Ventari Rework? 🤯

YES PLEASE! Lets hope its better (actually usefull) in WvW now.

[Buran.3796]

   Hope they don't ruin Draconic Echo just to give quickness in teamfights. Current condi Herald is kitten good at PvP/roaming/solo PvE and would be a shame if the changes are trade offs...

[Obtena.7952]

Nice ... Two things I requested. Still waiting to see how good it will be. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Za Shaloc.3908]

May the 28th of June mark the end of healing orbs. Please for the love of god.

 

Interesting stuff though. Personally I'm kinda scared for Herald to have more quickness access in PvP/WvW since DE was already the most popular choice, but we will see how it is implemented. I could be overestimating its value. Excited for the Ventari changes.

[Silesium.5623]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Nice ... Two things I requested. Still waiting to see how good it will be. 

Diden't you say that there was no points giving revenant 5men quicknes? and inslave it in alac role

[Obtena.7952]

Short memories some people. NVM ... just glad we get this variety.  Herald was undercut significantly for a long time. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Dahkeus.8243]

I am excited...but also a little worried because Draconic Echo is currently a very big trait for a lot of Herald builds and if adding quickness to that trait means that they change or take away the ability to maintain passives after use of active consumes, then it could end up being an overall negative; particularly in PvP/WvW.

 

But, until we have details, I'll try to stay a bit optimistic.  This does at least sound great from a PvE perspective.

[Dahkeus.8243]

2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Ventari Rework? 🤯

YES PLEASE! Lets hope its better (actually usefull) in WvW now.

 

Ventari is actually really strong for small group play in WvW and even decent in roaming.  Check Vallun's build on GuildJen.  A shortbow renegade with Ventari traits/legend can protect siege from disables and pump a ton of alacrity without needing to build too far into concentration.

That being said, it would be nice to see it worthwhile in zerg WvW content.  That might be tough though since it's a hardcore energy hog if you aim to cleanse and taking Ventari legend means it's one spot not dedicated to Jalis legend (stability).

 

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Hope they don't ruin Draconic Echo just to give quickness in teamfights. Current condi Herald is kitten good at PvP/roaming/solo PvE and would be a shame if the changes are trade offs...

 

+1 on this, at least for WvW and PvE.  It's still pretty mediocre at most PvP outside of 2s/3s mini seasons.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

7 hours ago, Silesium.5623 said:

Diden't you say that there was no points giving revenant 5men quicknes? and inslave it in alac role

Yes, they did, but now that their daddy Anet approved it gotta backtrack the statements to make themselves look good lmao

Edited June 23, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[draxynnic.3719]

I'll, well, echo the concern regarding Draconic Echo. Mind you, if it makes it possible to maintain permanent uptime on Quickness by consuming facets, even if it requires boon duration gear, it might well be a fair trade overall. I'd take a bit of Quickness on consuming a facet over the facet remaining for a few seconds on most facets.

Certainly solves the issue of simply getting Quickness by maintaining a facet being too easy.

[Buran.3796]

13 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

+1 on this, at least for WvW and PvE.  It's still pretty mediocre at most PvP outside of 2s/3s mini seasons.

   Take my words with a grain of salt since the most I climbed (EU) this season was gold tier II, so a lot of players here better than my which can have different  impressions, but:

1) What made condi Herald meta in the past was the old resistance (now the nerfed resolution) aka "ignore condi damage" with long immunity duration while being tanky and working great as a brusier. That build ran Mallyx to work, and was destroyed by the resistance/resolution changes and the nerfs to the duration of resolution.

2) The condi Herald build I'm running (and sometimes I saw from other players) is based on Glint + Shiro and has much lower energy requirements, since just swapping weapons or legends is enough to generate AoE pressure. Sustain is better due improved mobility and damage stats are larger, while still having 23K HP (Harbinger's burst are unable to one shoot me).

  I've faced all the other meta (and older) builds in 1 v 1 and didn't find myself in disadvantage (Willbenders, Harbingers, Specters, Engies, all kinds of Rangers in power or condi stats, all kind of Mesmers and Eles... ). In parallel, effectiveness of condi builds scales up when the meta is slanted towards condi, because when there's a single condi build x team cleansing is usually easier and the pressure is low, but we are actually in a condi (or at least VERY hybrid) meta: Harb to build is condi, Specter top build is condi, WB is power but wit a lot of collateral burns...   So condi Herald works very well both as a sidenoder and in teamfights, due usually half of your team (or more) already spam a lot of condition damage, and mace + axe + Elemental Blast + Chaotic Release + Jade Winds provide plenty of chances to stack your condis in your foes. I'm running this:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmABkex7lxQKsO6ixRYMPyiRSiMCqgjqUX7F-zZxsQisCyMB6NE8aA

[Aeolus.3615]

 

17 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Ventari Rework? 🤯

YES PLEASE! Lets hope its better (actually usefull) in WvW now.

It was always usefull... only spammers cant play it cause its not a spec with skills ment to spam..  and according to what its on the blog its the traits that they are improving  for "better support".

I think they will rework the 1-1-1 orb lines for the adition of utility support.

Overall the update is just more perma lamer boons to carry bad players...it feels more  "we will make players get more carried with boons" unless this boon aplyance is self only.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Ventari and Herald rework numba 95435883493. Ventari needs it clunky tablet go away along with orbs but in either case idc what they do with it even if it get deleted.

Herald most likely quickness on consuming facet but is it really what herald needs? Icd removal on shared empo, buff to forceful persistence to do 30% damage at -10 and sharing burst of strenght effect would do far better - ofc burst of strenght share never happening cuz anet want to homogenize classes which defeats the purpose of having them to begin with.

My real question is when they gonna buff Mallyx since the resistance rework and gutting torment runes annihilated him

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Take my words with a grain of salt since the most I climbed (EU) this season was gold tier II, so a lot of players here better than my which can have different  impressions, but:

Ahh that's why I've never seen you, you're on EU booo.

Eh rank is overrated anyways, some builds thrive in conquest, others in deathmatch, others in gamemodes Anet will never implement, etc

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

1) What made condi Herald meta in the past was the old resistance (now the nerfed resolution) aka "ignore condi damage" with long immunity duration while being tanky and working great as a brusier. That build ran Mallyx to work, and was destroyed by the resistance/resolution changes and the nerfs to the duration of resolution.

Pretty accurate. Bunker crev is dead, too bad no one else is interested in playing new Mallyx the way God (or ig the devil?) intended

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

2) The condi Herald build I'm running (and sometimes I saw from other players) is based on Glint + Shiro and has much lower energy requirements, since just swapping weapons or legends is enough to generate AoE pressure. Sustain is better due improved mobility and damage stats are larger, while still having 23K HP (Harbinger's burst are unable to one shoot me).

  I've faced all the other meta (and older) builds in 1 v 1 and didn't find myself in disadvantage (Willbenders, Harbingers, Specters, Engies, all kinds of Rangers in power or condi stats, all kind of Mesmers and Eles... ). In parallel, effectiveness of condi builds scales up when the meta is slanted towards condi, because when there's a single condi build x team cleansing is usually easier and the pressure is low, but we are actually in a condi (or at least VERY hybrid) meta: Harb to build is condi, Specter top build is condi, WB is power but wit a lot of collateral burns...   So condi Herald works very well both as a sidenoder and in teamfights, due usually half of your team (or more) already spam a lot of condition damage, and mace + axe + Elemental Blast + Chaotic Release + Jade Winds provide plenty of chances to stack your condis in your foes. I'm running this:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmABkex7lxQKsO6ixRYMPyiRSiMCqgjqUX7F-zZxsQisCyMB6NE8aA

First, gotta commend you for breaking from the shackles that is Staff 🙏

        >And also commend ur commitment to learning to fight hard matchups well in this meta, it's not easy and a lot of ppl would rather reroll an easier build.

Though I gotta ask about the Melandru Runes, it seems like as far as defense, you prioritize both Toughness and Vitality, which is making a hit on ur condi damage. Personally, I think focusing on one would be more useful for ur build (and I think Vitality trumps toughness in this condi-focused meta). I'd suggest something like Rune of Scavenging, gives extra condi dmg per vitality too.

[draxynnic.3719]

Condiherald has generally gone with some combination of mace, axe, sword and shield for a while. Sword and shield provide similar defensive qualities to staff while synergising better with a condi build. Power heralds use staff because they're already running sword as their offensive weapon, so having staff as their defensive swap provides more additional defence than sword/shield would.

I think there were some condi heralds that used staff anyway, but condi herald was always less reliant on it.

[vilesoldier.9826]

21 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Condiherald has generally gone with some combination of mace, axe, sword and shield for a while. Sword and shield provide similar defensive qualities to staff while synergising better with a condi build. Power heralds use staff because they're already running sword as their offensive weapon, so having staff as their defensive swap provides more additional defence than sword/shield would.

I think there were some condi heralds that used staff anyway, but condi herald was always less reliant on it.

While this is true, I made that point bc I've seen too many crevs (of the few still attempting) running staff, at this point it's cringe. God forbid they run with shield AND staff, that's actually hilarious.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

It was always usefull... only spammers cant play it cause its not a spec with skills ment to spam..  and according to what its on the blog its the traits that they are improving  for "better support".

I think they will rework the 1-1-1 orb lines for the adition of utility support.

Overall the update is just more perma lamer boons to carry bad players...it feels more  "we will make players get more carried with boons" unless this boon aplyance is self only.

Saying that Ventari was "always usefull" is just copium.

When was the last time you have seen one in wvw? For me, that was over a year ago and it was me.

It was always a C tier at best build that players play for fun for a week and then think " Ha, that was fun. But let me play an actaul good build."

[Aeolus.3615]

34 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Saying that Ventari was "always usefull" is just copium.

When was the last time you have seen one in wvw? For me, that was over a year ago and it was me.

It was always a C tier at best build that players play for fun for a week and then think " Ha, that was fun. But let me play an actaul good build."

Every  time i play :D, when  i see 2-3 tablet moving arround healing 3k-7k providing cover to spikes its really awesome, when theres that many tablets even players get impressed that's nice to have the big heals.

Pitty that the condi removal util  is a bit ot much expensive.

"good build" in gw2 can be mistaken by something like low effort gimmik :P, i would say Ventari is a well balanced build, with good heals but also heavy trade offs, issue is other "better builds" have less trade offs  and can carry more players in fights.

It has been mostly my main WvW build since HoT came, since druid(Avatar form is dope tho) felt lackluster in damage and support at same time. 

 

EDIT: i dont play potato minstrell.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Shao.7236]

7 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

1) What made condi Herald meta in the past was the old resistance (now the nerfed resolution) aka "ignore condi damage" with long immunity duration while being tanky and working great as a brusier. That build ran Mallyx to work, and was destroyed by the resistance/resolution changes and the nerfs to the duration of resolution.

I disagree, the old Infuse Light duration played heavily into carrying Herald/Mallyx, much of the same for Rune Of Resistance which was heavily abused.

You can easily tell apart of this playing as Core Condition that a lot of what made it strong are crutches that Anet didn't bother to nerf before ruining Mallyx entirely.

Still to this day F2 on Herald is an instant cast that needs to be addressed, it easily carries. Instant transfer/power damage with no tell is extremely unhealthy and Anet knows of it, they wouldn't have slowed down Permeating Pestilence otherwise, the reduction in total conditions transfers was unecessary after that.

Nowadays if Mallyx could simply get mere love for countering at least Poison healing reduction, it would be 100% better than it is right now. As the Stance that manages conditions and has no cleansing nor ways to counter conditions better than all other stances do, it's a joke.

@draxynnic.3719 I used Staff preferrably over X/Axe for the fact that much of the damage from Mallyx came from EtD no matter what skill as long it has energy used. While doing so Mallyx is easily countered with CC, being able to evade and block CC's on top of adding Weakness to reduce damage was more beneficial compared the full offense you'd get as Mace is plentiful when coming back from Staff. The extra blind with Renewing Wave was pretty useful too.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Shao.7236

[felix.2386]

one of my favorite build power herald with more quickness, oh baby

[vilesoldier.9826]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Still to this day F2 on Herald is an instant cast that needs to be addressed, it easily carries. Instant transfer/power damage with no tell is extremely unhealthy and Anet knows of it, they wouldn't have slowed down Permeating Pestilence otherwise, the reduction in total conditions transfers was unecessary after that.

Ehhh I always go back and forth on this. Herald Demon F2 and Permeating Pestilence clearly serve two different purposes despite having similar effects, and I'd argue that instant cast vs slower cast is part of that tradeoff. Simply from the fact that PP ignores blind and is unblockable, while Herald F2 isn't.

 

Granted F2 range could eat a nerf, it'll live.

Also slight might stack nerf is p fair.

*Edit: lollll just tested if F2 was still bugged, looks like it still is. I'll concede that

Edited June 23, 2022 by GeneralBM.5781

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

Still to this day F2 on Herald is an instant cast that needs to be addressed, it easily carries. Instant transfer/power damage with no tell is extremely unhealthy and Anet knows of it, they wouldn't have slowed down Permeating Pestilence otherwise, the reduction in total conditions transfers was unecessary after that.

  What? Has a  0.25 seconds cast time and there's an animation for both Facet of Nature and True Nature, plus a 20 s cooldown for the later. Also, the "no tell" moan seems a absurd taking in consideration stealth: which "tell" I have when a Thief, Mesmer, Ranger or DH chose to burst on our Revs from. 

@GeneralBM.5781 The rune is a bit optional, in WvW I run antitoxin due both empowers the damage and increases the cleanses and defense vs condis, but in that game mode full celestial stats also helps a lot. Melandru is okish and works for me but I'm sure other players will find out better choices.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Am I the only one that thinks the ventari rework means they're removing alacrity from it?