Finally justice for SA traitline

[Alec B.8905]

This has plagued the game for ages, THANK YOU ANET SO MUCH for the stealth nerfs. non thieves thank you. we will still have to see how the new setup works but currently i am thrilled to see most of the free stealth removed!

[Jumpel.3972]

D/P still exist for free stealth and this new SA even buff it more 

[GewRoo.4172]

Don't believe it will change too much mah dud. 

[Caedmon.6798]

Its obvious the OP has no clue about Thief whatsoever. Rifle Dodge + DP HS spamm is enough to perm stealth.

[Sonork.2916]

I don't play thief, but all I see from these notes is that thieves can probably get close to infinite protection + superspeed from entering/exiting stealth starting Tuesday.

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Sonork.2916 said:

I don't play thief, but all I see from these notes is that thieves can probably get close to infinite protection + superspeed from entering/exiting stealth starting Tuesday.

Trying to chain that will depend on durations and factoring in Revealed. I'm also not sure if we're double dipping around stealth since we don't know if there's any internal cooldown on superspeed. It could be that we can initiate superspeed on either end of Stealth but might not be able to stack or chain them consistently if at all. 

Regardless, if you want more frequent protection and superspeed, that means you have to come out of stealth and can't camp in it, and then that protection and speed sounds reasonable when put next to other classes.

There's always the chance that it could end up being broken by overlooked details. We'll have to see how something like Shadow Meld factors into that.

Edited June 24, 2022 by kash.9213

[AikijinX.6258]

Guys we know the public outcry will definitely pour out pretty soon. Enjoy these CRACKED buffs while they last. Protection and SuperSpeed and barrier on heal (innate sanctuary runes), merciful ambush adept. Enjoy this while it last because these changes won’t be here for long. They will get nerfed and honestly pretty justifiably. (Although I love this beloved class.. it’s getting nerfed) but I’m ecstatic about these changes! They are incredible! 
 

Good job Anet. Well done. 
 

I guess I’m returning to the game again.

EDIT: However, I am slightly unhappy about my stealth on steal ‘ hidden thief ‘ trait not being usable, but that is kind of overshadowed by the overall buffs and QoLs.

EDIT2: I had more time to think about these changes. I still like them because this reinforces the need to actively use stealth rather than passively sit and wait. Most of the brain dead passive traits carried anyways, so these changes will require a bit more thought and planning. The stealth on heal will be missed with the ‘ withdraw ‘ heal I used, but as this class always does, since it’s a high skill cap profession, we adapt.

- I do hope that the shadow rejuvenation change gives back a sufficient amount of initiative back since it’s been reworked like that. If it gives back only 1 initiative, the trait is dead on arrival.

Edited June 25, 2022 by AikijinX.6258

[HowlKamui.5120]

6 hours ago, Alec B.8905 said:

This has plagued the game for ages, THANK YOU ANET SO MUCH for the stealth nerfs. non thieves thank you. we will still have to see how the new setup works but currently i am thrilled to see most of the free stealth removed!

nerfs? why do I see buffs lol

[kiranslee.4829]

Oh cmn leave the thief alone. It is best class for ppl who have no other skills (why i think SA guild and pet slonder, right now .....). Fun 😄

[DeceiverX.8361]

16 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Guys we know the public outcry will definitely pour out pretty soon. Enjoy these CRACKED buffs while they last. Protection and SuperSpeed and barrier on heal (innate sanctuary runes), merciful ambush adept. Enjoy this while it last because these changes won’t be here for long. They will get nerfed and honestly pretty justifiably. (Although I love this beloved class.. it’s getting nerfed) but I’m ecstatic about these changes! They are incredible! 
 

Good job Anet. Well done. 
 

I guess I’m returning to the game again.

EDIT: However, I am slightly unhappy about my stealth on steal ‘ hidden thief ‘ trait not being usable, but that is kind of overshadowed by the overall buffs and QoLs.

EDIT2: I had more time to think about these changes. I still like them because this reinforces the need to actively use stealth rather than passively sit and wait. Most of the brain dead passive traits carried anyways, so these changes will require a bit more thought and planning. The stealth on heal will be missed with the ‘ withdraw ‘ heal I used, but as this class always does, since it’s a high skill cap profession, we adapt.

- I do hope that the shadow rejuvenation change gives back a sufficient amount of initiative back since it’s been reworked like that. If it gives back only 1 initiative, the trait is dead on arrival.

I think it's pretty much normalizing things to the rest of the game.  Literally everyone and their mother runs supersoeed at this point lol.

I think it'll be a pretty nasty debuff to a lot of builds - notably D/P, but absolutely was the right move.  The "camp stealth for free win" is something that us old guard have been trying to get removed for nearly ten years because of how much it hinders the rest of the class from being expanded upon.

SRejuv will provide increased initiative per unit of time if you don't stack stealth and make sneak attacks or simply let it expire.  It's literally a buff to everything except chain stealth where chain stealth is simultaneously nerfed.  It's a super elegant solution; The more frequent, shorter instances of stealth you have, the stronger this trait becomes.  If D/D wasn't bad because of mobility/damage, this would actually be an INSANE buff to it, effectively causing CnD/Backstab combos to run initiative-positive.

[Hotride.2187]

Dueling thief on war has been a thing I enjoy (until cele spectre anyway), I kinda want to see how the new changes turn out.

[AikijinX.6258]

4 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

I think it's pretty much normalizing things to the rest of the game.  Literally everyone and their mother runs supersoeed at this point lol.

I think it'll be a pretty nasty debuff to a lot of builds - notably D/P, but absolutely was the right move.  The "camp stealth for free win" is something that us old guard have been trying to get removed for nearly ten years because of how much it hinders the rest of the class from being expanded upon.

SRejuv will provide increased initiative per unit of time if you don't stack stealth and make sneak attacks or simply let it expire.  It's literally a buff to everything except chain stealth where chain stealth is simultaneously nerfed.  It's a super elegant solution; The more frequent, shorter instances of stealth you have, the stronger this trait becomes.  If D/D wasn't bad because of mobility/damage, this would actually be an INSANE buff to it, effectively causing CnD/Backstab combos to run initiative-positive.

Yeah brother I more or less agree. These changes are excellent and definitely moving in the right direction. My hidden thief stealth steal will be missed as well as heal stealth, but I can definitely get over all of that because it wasn’t really my absolute go to thing. I am over the moon about the change about stealth stacking. But I guess you are right in that sense about the super speed because it’s really nothing special, since it’s bringing us up to the standard, since literally every other class had access to this and the protection boon. Still a good QoL. I’ve always wanted super speed AND protection on my Thief and now I have it after 10 years. 
 

Oh man CnD… if D/D as you said wasn’t so terrible with mobility it would 100% thrive in this patch. S/D will have an resurgence. Too bad Acro wasn’t even touched and preparedness wasn’t made baseline. Anet is going in the right direction. So I will wait and see. But I already can tell that in a couple more balance patches super speed and protection will probably be taken away from us. Because once the higher than average thieves start adapting to the new changes and start winning every battle they get into whether it be 1v1 or 1vX, then I can foresee, (as this always happens) a nerf coming to something introduced to us but taken away because good players started ‘ wrecking ‘ the bad or casual (majority) of the player base. So then they’ll  complain of  ‘unbalance’ because thieves are in the end thieves and it’ll go like  “ how is this fair, they get stealth, on top of SuperSpeed and protection, and tons of mobility, disengage power and now barrier and extra lifebar “. It’ll be like clockwork.

Edited June 25, 2022 by AikijinX.6258

[Kozumi.5816]

I'm not thanking Anet for giving thief superspeed. That's just as awful to fight against.

[Burial.1958]

3 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

I'm not thanking Anet for giving thief superspeed. That's just as awful to fight against.

Ah Kozumi the big thief hater. Your flaming becomes really boring now. For you thief would even be OP when he would be naked and trow flowers at you.

[Arheundel.6451]

Who gives a kitten about superspeed, protection, regen...have it all!

It's the free/easy stealth spam that persecuted the whole game for almost a decade and if that gets effectively removed....glory to us all! they could give 24/7 invulnerability to thieves and I still wouldn't care! It's the griefing and the cocky attitude granted by perma stealth...let's see how this plays out...now I have even more hope for the Tuesday patch

[Cynz.9437]

15 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Who gives a kitten about superspeed, protection, regen...have it all!

It's the free/easy stealth spam that persecuted the whole game for almost a decade and if that gets effectively removed....glory to us all! they could give 24/7 invulnerability to thieves and I still wouldn't care! It's the griefing and the cocky attitude granted by perma stealth...let's see how this plays out...now I have even more hope for the Tuesday patch

 

To be fair, i was verbally harassed and tbagged on thief by other players (especially warriors) more than i ever was harassed by thief players. By huge margin too. So who has the griefing and cocky attitude here.

 

Thief goes in match, helps teammates as much as they can, steals beasts for the team, scout for their server in wvw, tap gates for their commander, donate sieg and all they get is attitude like yours. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Cynz.9437

[Bazsi.2734]

People think this is a good thing... but it's not. Going in and out of stealth as fast as possible is the way deadeye plays. You can figure out the rest...

[senftube.6081]

17 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Who gives a kitten about superspeed, protection, regen...have it all!

It's the free/easy stealth spam that persecuted the whole game for almost a decade and if that gets effectively removed....glory to us all! they could give 24/7 invulnerability to thieves and I still wouldn't care! It's the griefing and the cocky attitude granted by perma stealth...let's see how this plays out...now I have even more hope for the Tuesday patch

 

>Peoples will keep moaning about thief because everyone knows -> Its always the thiefs fault. After stealth , Kozumi and the trolling demigod will moaning about evasion and mobility and dmg. That is a crocky attitude and not the thief using his mechanic. And for real this game is spamming all day long. From b00ns to pew pew to condi. Getting salty against thiefs only because they go stealth is a joke. Dude you can even 1vs3 with a harbinger simply pressing 1 the whole day and don't even use your class skills. 🤡

[Lyralia.2945]

I didn't need the stealth anymore anyway, tbh.

🤷‍♀️

[Kozumi.5816]

On 6/25/2022 at 6:38 PM, Grebcol.5984 said:

Ah Kozumi the big thief hater. Your flaming becomes really boring now. For you thief would even be OP when he would be naked and trow flowers at you.

I main thief.

[Morena.9312]

5 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

I main thief.

Sure and Santa Claus is real.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

As someone who goes in and out of stealth frequently in a fight (and camps it if im hurting) Im interested to see how this impacts me and my gameplay.

[Caedmon.6798]

On 6/27/2022 at 12:23 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

People think this is a good thing... but it's not. Going in and out of stealth as fast as possible is the way deadeye plays. You can figure out the rest...

I dont think they can.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Proof that the people upset about SA thieves don't understand how thieves work and just want to see "Patch not: remov stelf".

I mean- Ooh no, my stealth, how could you do this

Edited July 1, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Khenzy.9348]

After these SA changes I feel thieves became so much more manageable during 1v1s, both Daredevils and Deadeyes alike. This massive reduction in stealth uptime made all the difference. Even if they have more initiative regen as a whole, thieves now have so many more opportunities to be countered because now they have to be way more aggressive. Having less stealth uptime also forces them to be visible more time which gives us way more openers to counter them. When it comes to daredevils, if you time your dodge right and then predict the incoming backstab, they wont have time to do a second one if you keep kiting and moving around until stealth runs off, so they are forced to either reenter stealth or engage directly face to face without stealth, no more health and initiative sustain during stealth (that 1s CD on stealth skills makes a BIG difference now). Thief is a squishy class with little staying power (besides Specter) so if I have more opportunities to counterpressure them... it's huge. 

Many people may say deadeyes now have massive initiative regen, which is true and they can now do some nasty stuff with it (I fully expect some rebalance here). The thing is, they now have to choose between said initiative regen OR protection uptime, they could have 33% damage reduction (old Flickering Shadows, super underrated on DE) + Shadow's Rejuvenation at the same time before, that's no longer the case, even though they can get some protection from malef7 now, it's nowhere near as effective as before, so DEs also have less stealth uptime and are actually squishier now. In addition to that, with only 1s on Silent Scope they are basically forced to do an immediate Death's Judgement which makes them very predictable. 

 

The new Shadow's Rejuvenation made thieves more slippery now as this allows them to spam more movement abilities but they lost a lot of staying power, which as I said already, makes all the difference. 

 

This is my relatively brief experience, which may drastically change as more people get used to this new stuff.

EDIT: I forgot to mention. All sets that use dagger offhand became much stronger with SA now but they are nowhere near at the same power level (or even above) as DD D/P or DE before the SA changes. Not even Sword/Dagger or Dagger/Dagger.

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Khenzy.9348