Make WvW perm No Down state

[mysticozzy.3589]

Best way to counter these boonblob bs, smaller groups can pick off numbers but the zerg boon blobs keep rally botting them. Make its perm NDS in WvW till the boonblob gets nerfed. gives others a chance at defending and cuts out the support in a small way. 

[Strider Pj.2193]

19 minutes ago, mysticozzy.3589 said:

Best way to counter these boonblob bs, smaller groups can pick off numbers but the zerg boon blobs keep rally botting them. Make its perm NDS in WvW till the boonblob gets nerfed. gives others a chance at defending and cuts out the support in a small way. 

I would agree with going to permanent NDS.  Would shake things up.

 

But evidently the group you are playing with would fare worse if people are ‘rally botting’ the boon blob…. Because the people IN downstate are doing no damage…..  

 

So, while changing to no downstate would be good, it clearly won’t help your group as much as you believe.

[mysticozzy.3589]

Not so much the issue of them doing dmg but the issue of a larger zerg healing through the smaller numbers damage. most people can get them down but then the "rally bots" goto their rescue and their back up again fighting. 

[Swagger.1459]

1 hour ago, mysticozzy.3589 said:

Best way to counter these boonblob bs, smaller groups can pick off numbers but the zerg boon blobs keep rally botting them. Make its perm NDS in WvW till the boonblob gets nerfed. gives others a chance at defending and cuts out the support in a small way. 

The best way to counter these boonblob bs is by doing spvp where you don't have boonblob bs. WvW was primarily designed with boonblob bs in mind, so that's not going to change. 

 

DS is also intertwined with professions and combat. Most likely if you remove DS from the equation, then be prepared for even more blanket nerfs to damage and 300s recharge timers. 

[mysticozzy.3589]

feel free to come up with other strats that dont involve insta ressing someone in a 50 zerg. the point is to bring a nerf to the boonblobbing bs that is this "meta". 

If you bothered to read it at all, i know 2 sentences is a lot for some people youll see i said "TILL A NERF" to this boonball meta comes along

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by mysticozzy.3589

[Salt Mode.3780]

Back in the days when warclaw had insta down was the best way for roamers to deal with blobs. They taking away that function is them saying that they want blobs to persist.

[Swagger.1459]

8 minutes ago, mysticozzy.3589 said:

feel free to come up with other strats that dont involve insta ressing someone in a 50 zerg. the point is to bring a nerf to the boonblobbing bs that is this "meta"

the strat to avoiding issues with these boonblob bs 50 zerg, is to avoid the mode made for these boonblob bs 50 zerg. right? 

 

but if you want removal ds, then expect things like more damage nerfs to up the ttk. highly doubt the devvies would buff health to counter lower ttk, bc they like nerf a lot, so expect more nerf instead. and when the devs nerf your damage 33% more than they did before, you won't be happy and you'll wish they put ds back in wvw.  

Edited June 29, 2022 by Swagger.1459

[kash.9213]

Down state should stay in. There should only be like a slow roll or crawl or some simple stuff like that for downed skills. There should also be no rally. That boon ball composition would just tighten up and you'd still have the same problems and more if your side doesn't anticipate plotting and common sense. There's no need to kick dirt on a little quality of life the average pug gets in this mode. 

[Dawdler.8521]

Anet already have a blatantly obvious way to make downstate more equal across numbers. They've already changed it halfway when they made it 1:1 rally. Changing it to 1:1 res as well would nullify the advantage of multiple people being able to res fast.

But no lets just go straight to dElEte DoWnSTaTe as usual and forget that its one of the core mechanics of GW2 combat that makes it good as a team based MMO, the idea that its not every ganker for themselves, that if someone goes down you can help them.

 I'm sure 10 of 10 sad thieves will agree with OP.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Luthan.5236]

Remove the rallying. Maybe more limit on rez speed on downed and/or a maximum timer you can stay downed (longer downed penalty). Only for WvW though.

In PvP actually with the smaller team sizes the rallying mechanic is nice (as long as not suddenly someone rallies from a guy he tagged that run far away and got killed by someone else - which sometimes happens). There you actually need to optimize what you are doing (helping to rez or tryign to kill other while your own guy might get killed rallying some other guy).

In the WvW zerg there is a bit too much advandage just for having bigger numbers because of this. No rallying and max 3 rezzers on one person - would be fine. Instead maybe enable full dead rez in combat. (Where there actually should be already enough disadvantage cause of the slower speed while in combat - and you not being able to fight back when the enemy attacks. With a limit on rezzers of course.)

Edited June 29, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Labjax.2465]

Removing down state is just gonna make it so you can more easily pick off the ill prepared and casually invested. The ones who know the meta and are playing it in voice chat are still going to annoy you.

Furthermore, if people know they can't survive downed, they will hang back more and you will get "sniping at each other blob" instead of "melee dance charge blob." Then you will be saying you can't pick them off because they are being too cautious for you to find a weak link.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Biermeister.4678]

Yes make it permanent 

[Galmac.4680]

I'm pro-down state! I don't want insta-death here.

[anduriell.6280]

I have suggested this many times: you don’t need no-downstate, with simply removing the button “F to revive” downed players while in combat would be enough, and all the reviving utilities and trait would still work as they are supposed to.

 

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:

Not true and not true

That's a bad take. You need to unpack that or just save it. 

[Swagger.1459]

1 hour ago, Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:

then its time to git gud huh

gud point. best way to avoid boonblob is when you see boonblob then git gud at running away so they don't eat ya up. 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 6/29/2022 at 5:37 AM, kash.9213 said:

Down state should stay in. There should only be like a slow roll or crawl or some simple stuff like that for downed skills. There should also be no rally. That boon ball composition would just tighten up and you'd still have the same problems and more if your side doesn't anticipate plotting and common sense. There's no need to kick dirt on a little quality of life the average pug gets in this mode. 

No rally, players being revived by skills out of downstate and rubbing on downstate a bit nerfed, that would a be like fusion of gw1 rez and gw2 rez mechanics.

Warrior elite  banner, Guardian elite signet, there could be several skills that would save players in dowstate, and yes would force players to take those skills abd burn them to revive alies, fun side is this kinda of skills are in gw lore.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Za Shaloc.3908]

On 6/28/2022 at 8:01 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Back in the days when warclaw had insta down was the best way for roamers to deal with blobs. They taking away that function is them saying that they want blobs to persist.

 

Yeah I agree completely. Honestly as much as I absolutely rag on the Warclaw, mount stomp was some of the best fun I've had in WvW. 

 

In regards to the OP: downstate will never be permanently removed from WvW, but it would be nice if ANet would experiment more with general downstate rules and balance. I'd like for them to be more bold with their special week/weekend events (like no downstate) and use them as a testing ground for possible future changes so they can actually gather player feedback and see how it affects the WvW landscape at large. It's a very integral part of PvP/WvW combat that seems to be largely forgotten about by ANet. I'd also like to see them distribute active finisher skills like Warbanner,  or even skills that do increased damage to downed players like Virtuoso's Sword of Decimation, to more classes so there is more of a counter to rez potential. 

[AlCapwnd.7834]

On 6/28/2022 at 9:40 PM, mysticozzy.3589 said:

Best way to counter these boonblob bs, smaller groups can pick off numbers but the zerg boon blobs keep rally botting them. Make its perm NDS in WvW till the boonblob gets nerfed. gives others a chance at defending and cuts out the support in a small way. 

Uhhh. No!

[Svarty.8019]

 

On 6/29/2022 at 6:45 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

 I'm sure 10 of 10 sad thieves will agree with OP.

I used to think that until I realised that the time I hate downed state the most is when thieves go in stealth and rez their buddies.

[cyberzombie.7348]

If anything that'll encourage more zergs to turtle harder and hit and run cheese across all classes.

[mysticozzy.3589]

As a random thought instead of having NDS across the whole map. introduce it as a new tactic to put onto tactivators. making it a general aura for the "section" where the tactivator is placed and activated. Obviously as a 10 min CD 

[Ian.8340]

Yes, permanent no downed state. WvW is more fun without downed state.

[cyberzombie.7348]

1 hour ago, Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:

no only those with that zergling mindset would think that way

Trust me, as someone that scouts, roam, and melee dps in zerg fights;  Every no downstate event that I've experienced is just more players doing hit-and-run cheese and groups being more risk averse.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

there is still way too many random tr#sh burst smallscale builds that would make gank single people way too easy

 

nade engi, overall dps variants of engi have builds that are not okay, for example. also rangers and many more have these... making a perma no-downstate like this wouldn't be smart

 

overall, yes, downstate is kinda bad. at least the downstates have FAR too much health. that is really not good bc it takes simply too long to cleave during mobile fights and in outnumbered fights.