Now that Thief perma-stealthing has been taken care of...

[kshaeko.5647]

We need to take a long, hard look at Soulbeast Longbow Ranger and its impact on WvW as a whole.

The Sic 'Em Roamer is now the most egregious new-player stomping build in the game mode as it:

1. has a sustained burst from 1500+ range that will downstate a player in under a second, unless they dodge twice or carry an anti-projectile utility,
2. can use a weaker burst again every 10s from 1500+ range, until 35s/60s have passed,
3. can disengage or catch up to most specs with its great mobility and stealth, even without speed/pack runes, to either reset a fight or get their kill,
4. can switch to melee to GS or spin to win with axe 5 to down unsuspecting players who thought the ranger would be more easily defeated when caught up to.

The SB longbow is an overly efficient solo/small-scale roaming build that preys on unsuspecting victims and it's always disheartening to see a low-ranked player getting annihilated in under a second while being unable to even react or reach their enemy. This kind of game play may be fun for the people who play it, but it's very oppressive and toxic to new players and casuals.

[Junkpile.7439]

Main problem is that many of these soulbest lamers play game wrong way. They don't care about winning a fight. They just try to find one player that they can kill and annoy him whole time. Usually some core ele or something who doesn't have mount yet.  Of course sometimes you one shot some soulbest and dude just try to kill you whole time every time you come in wvw. Need to change guild tag, use some robot transformation item and stuff so he can't figure out who you are. It's so annoying when you try to do some blob fighting and one dude only goal in game is to kill you. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Junkpile.7439

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Permastealth hasn't been taken care of. It is still possible to do. 

 

Now OT: The problem is not the LB2 but the huge amount of hard hitting skills soulbeast has. Not the only profession with this problem tho. 

Also "1500+"? More like 2000. 

I would be happy if they fix the goddamned range. 

[iKeostuKen.2738]

I feel like the main problem is quickness honestly.

[flyingplanet.6912]

Just now, kshaeko.5647 said:

We need to take a long, hard look at Soulbeast Longbow Ranger and its impact on WvW as a whole.

 

How about you ask for buff on other classes instead of nerfs? 

If something should be nerfed, engi and gurdian should be the first to be significantly nerfed because they are the only classes I am seeing in organized wvw squads that kill any pug groups. 

Just now, kshaeko.5647 said:

it's always disheartening to see a low-ranked player getting annihilated in under a second while being unable to even react

Aren't you more disheartening to see GROUPS of low-ranked players getting deleted even though they react?

But honestly just like the recent patch, anet's nerfs only remove contents from wvw and therefore only ends up losing players. 

Anet should know people who will complain about something they don't like will complain anyway regardless of patch just like this thread. 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by flyingplanet.6912

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, flyingplanet.6912 said:

 

How about you ask for buff on other classes instead of nerfs? 

If something should be nerfed, engi and gurdian should be the first to be significantly nerfed because they are the only classes I am seeing in organized wvw squads that kill any pug groups. 

Aren't you more disheartening to see GROUPS of low-ranked players getting deleted even though they react?

But honestly just like the recent patch, anet's nerfs only remove contents from wvw and therefore only ends up losing players. 

Anet should know people who will complain about something they don't like will complain anyway regardless of patch just like this thread. 

 

Looks like we've found Soulbeast "main" guys.

[Abyssisis.3971]

As a soulbeast main, I find them sooo great at wvw play that I actually play my guardian and you know, be useful.

Sic em soulbeast has always been the best noob stomper… stop being a noob and you won’t get stomped by one.

[Justine.6351]

Delete one wolf pack.

[Karagee.6830]

8 hours ago, kshaeko.5647 said:

We need to take a long, hard look at Soulbeast Longbow Ranger and its impact on WvW as a whole.

The Sic 'Em Roamer is now the most egregious new-player stomping build in the game mode as it:

1. has a sustained burst from 1500+ range that will downstate a player in under a second, unless they dodge twice or carry an anti-projectile utility,
2. can use a weaker burst again every 10s from 1500+ range, until 35s/60s have passed,
3. can disengage or catch up to most specs with its great mobility and stealth, even without speed/pack runes, to either reset a fight or get their kill,
4. can switch to melee to GS or spin to win with axe 5 to down unsuspecting players who thought the ranger would be more easily defeated when caught up to.

The SB longbow is an overly efficient solo/small-scale roaming build that preys on unsuspecting victims and it's always disheartening to see a low-ranked player getting annihilated in under a second while being unable to even react or reach their enemy. This kind of game play may be fun for the people who play it, but it's very oppressive and toxic to new players and casuals.

Rangers are fodder for me, they typically eat their entire burst reflected, because that's how they are. But yeah, the 1500 range and the stupid things you can do with barrage (i.e. hit places most other classes can't hit) should be looked at.

[Karagee.6830]

8 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Main problem is that many of these soulbest lamers play game wrong way. They don't care about winning a fight. They just try to find one player that they can kill and annoy him whole time. Usually some core ele or something who doesn't have mount yet.  Of course sometimes you one shot some soulbest and dude just try to kill you whole time every time you come in wvw. Need to change guild tag, use some robot transformation item and stuff so he can't figure out who you are. It's so annoying when you try to do some blob fighting and one dude only goal in game is to kill you. 

They are a far cry from...thief and mesmer.

One night I did over 1.5 million damage fighting 1 mesmer 1v1 in the north east camp of the desert map. I was trying to take the camp. It took 50 minutes because he had some idiotic bunker build and he wasn't able to do enough damage to kill me and I only moved the capping bar 1 bit every several minutes when he popped invisibility or whatever. The funny thing is he most certainly had 0 participation because he had nothing to kill (while I kept killing guards and donkeys).

This particular guy would put you in combat even on a mount and then keep up with you on foot, so that when you dismounted (or he dismounted you with damage) you'd be in combat and could not mount again. After I capped the camp I had to run all the way to my spawn camp on foot, while doing some shrine and monument on the way because he kept following me everywhere I went. 

[Justine.6351]

15 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

They are a far cry from...thief and mesmer.

One night I did over 1.5 million damage fighting 1 mesmer 1v1 in the north east camp of the desert map. I was trying to take the camp. It took 50 minutes because he had some idiotic bunker build and he wasn't able to do enough damage to kill me and I only moved the capping bar 1 bit every several minutes when he popped invisibility or whatever. The funny thing is he most certainly had 0 participation because he had nothing to kill (while I kept killing guards and donkeys).

This particular guy would put you in combat even on a mount and then keep up with you on foot, so that when you dismounted (or he dismounted you with damage) you'd be in combat and could not mount again. After I capped the camp I had to run all the way to my spawn camp on foot, while doing some shrine and monument on the way because he kept following me everywhere I went. 

Lol that is actually quite funny. This is what happens when anet removes damage from wvw.

[PinkTacoLover.7603]

how to kill a sickem ranger

1. use one block/reflect/dodge
2. use the "misterious spammable teleport skill that any class have"
3. spam condi
4. ???
5. profit

 

1. use one block/reflect/dodge
2. use the "misterious spammable teleport skill that any class have"
3. just hit with whatever cuz he get 3 to 7k/hit
4. keep hitting when he run away with the "speed rune (c) TM" you are faster even if he have superspeed
5. ???
6. profit

 

[Jitters.9401]

14 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

They don't care about winning a fight

That is exactly their definition of winning.

[Jitters.9401]

15 hours ago, kshaeko.5647 said:

The Sic 'Em Roamer is now the most egregious new-player stomping build in the game mode as it:

It is painful BUT... I am not a fan of calling for nerfs willy nilly. 

Before anet totally destroyed shadow arts for my d/d  d/d build I'd find them very painful but I wouldn't lose a fair 1v1 fight to one. 

 

The annoyance was that once they learned they could never beat me 1v1 they always hung back and waited till I was occupied before attacking.  It's a kitten move but I would never call for a nerf because of it. 

 

Besides. Every Sic em ranger opens with the exact same skills. I'd just dodge roll twice towards them, steal (when stealth on steal) and remove them from the GW2 gene pool. 

 

If people keeps calling for nerfs then one day WvW will be a no contact zone. 

[Riba.3271]

Sic'em Rangers are only viable on whichever server holds SM most of the day (as they need place to run away to). Nerf objective claims and Stonemist upgrade speed so SM will change owners more often. SM carries so many cheese builds. For example Willbender is much more deadlier elsewhere.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Threather.9354

[Abyssisis.3971]

5 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I'll bite.

OWP was nerfed only in pve.

LB has more 300+ range than what is supposed to. Tooltip says 1500. It hits from 1800.

Also according to ANet's own philosophy ranged weapons should deal less damage than melee, which isn't the case here. 

Tooltip could be wrong, just like ranger axe tool tip says it’s a .25 attack, yet it is close to .88 seconds per attack.

As a full glass soulbeast, you take more damage in melee than you dish out with your long range shot. It’s the bursting of +4 skills combined that dishes out these “1 shots”  if and only if you invest everything into the attack. When you are on the receiving end of things, the damage inflicted on you is higher than you dish out with your autoattacks, so yes, anet is going by their philosophy.

[Hotride.2187]

Ah, finally the thread to nerf the one remaining power build that does something in roaming, without ungodly levels of skill. Am I glad I'm almost done with the mode.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Sahne.6950]

a good sicem soulbeast is incredibly strong. Good at duelling. Good at ganking. High mobility. Stealth. evade/blockframes. Good Damage.

Its a nice class. It has counters, it has weaknesses, it has strengths.

I really see no reason to nerf it.  It is without a doubt strong.... but its miles from being broken/overpowered.

Sometimes the RF+OWP combo gets you... sometimes there is nothing you can do against it.... but that is somewhat the identity of the ranger... having a devastating Ranged burst. Lets NOT take it away from them. But they need to invest alot to actually make it hurt. mainly owp and sicem. That is elite and a utilityskill gone.... just for the attempt at bursting.

easier said than done sometimes.... but you just have to avoid the burst, and from there on the slb will be fighting a uphill battle against you.

 

tldr: SLB is crazy strong, but DONT nerf it. There is enough counterplay in the game available to deal with them. The burst is crazy strong, and if you dont see it coming... your dead.... but thats just something we have to work with. lets not nerf every build, because some people cant deal with them.

Also... threads like this are kind of senseless... sadly.... Them not nerfing cele harbinger after the last 2 patches shows... that just about anything is "fair and square" in WvW roaming and we just have to deal with and use whatever is available. If a build / skill is not problematic for WvW Largescale... anet will NOT balance it. Longbow slb is not used in WvW largescale... therefore they will not balance / nerf it. period.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Sometimes the RF+OWP combo gets you... sometimes there is nothing you can do against it.... but that is somewhat the identity of the ranger... having a devastating Ranged burst. Lets NOT take it away from them. But they need to invest alot to actually make it hurt. mainly owp and sicem. That is elite and a utilityskill gone.... just for the attempt at bursting.

easier said than done sometimes.... but you just have to avoid the burst, and from there on the slb will be fighting a uphill battle against you.

My experience from dueling LB rangers is that they drop protect me or dolyak stance to use sic em, and that makes them really squishy.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Sure keep Soulbeasts as they are. 

Remove my requirements to pull of my Killshot and Gunflame. 

I want to burst with no adrenaline, I want my Berserker's power to trigger on adrenaline consumption so the projectile arrives the enemy buffed, I want a quivker casttime on Killshot and I want both to be made borderline Unblockable, since you can only pull 1 of these every 8 or so seconds. 

What does the warrior sacrifice? Everything, even Brawler's Recovery. 

It's meme builds, but no reason not to make them as viable as Longbow rangers right? 

Try to roam on gunflame and soulbeast and tell me what's easier. 

[Jitters.9401]

14 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

+4 skills combined that dishes out these “1 shots”

Isn't it 3 skills that does the damage? The 4th is quickness to get it done quicker.

 

The wolf thing that does double hits, the Sic em for +25% damage, the #2skill that shoots really fast.

It is still putting 3 skills on cooldown but would other damaging builds have something similar?  

1500 range with all that damage is quite something. 

 

I have fought a lot of rangers and nothing does damage like that so quickly. Like if a glass mesmer fired off his 3 or 4 most damaging abilities, the amount would still be quite a bit less than the ranger chain.

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 hour ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Isn't it 3 skills that does the damage? The 4th is quickness to get it done quicker.

 

The wolf thing that does double hits, the Sic em for +25% damage, the #2skill that shoots really fast.

It is still putting 3 skills on cooldown but would other damaging builds have something similar?  

1500 range with all that damage is quite something. 

 

I have fought a lot of rangers and nothing does damage like that so quickly. Like if a glass mesmer fired off his 3 or 4 most damaging abilities, the amount would still be quite a bit less than the ranger chain.

Depends which way you go.. sic me, owp, pbs/qz into rapid fire. There is another way of doing it without longbow, pretty fun as well lol

One wolf pack will only proc 5 times during a rapid fire, not 10 times like most people think it does. 
 

Yes, other dps builds hit just as hard while generally having high sustained damage over soulbeast. Soulbeast has high burst, but low damage outside of the initial burst.

Yes, other classes can deal just as much damage… As a pew pew soulbeast at wvw, I’ve been 1 hit for +20k damage by overheating stealthed magumma holosmiths, I’ve been 3 hit by their stealthed thieves that deal like 8k back stabs into double heartseekers that put me into downstate without ever seeing them render in, thanks 250-300 ping. Mesmers of all sorts using a “1 shot” build will instantly down a pew pew soulbeast from stealth, willbenders spin to spin hits like a truck. Glass vs glass will always hurt.

[Sahne.6950]

19 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Sure keep Soulbeasts as they are. 

Remove my requirements to pull of my Killshot and Gunflame. 

I want to burst with no adrenaline, I want my Berserker's power to trigger on adrenaline consumption so the projectile arrives the enemy buffed, I want a quivker casttime on Killshot and I want both to be made borderline Unblockable, since you can only pull 1 of these every 8 or so seconds. 

What does the warrior sacrifice? Everything, even Brawler's Recovery. 

It's meme builds, but no reason not to make them as viable as Longbow rangers right? 

Try to roam on gunflame and soulbeast and tell me what's easier. 

so we all agree that warrior needs a buff.

[anduriell.6280]

On 7/11/2022 at 6:29 AM, Jitters.9401 said:

Besides. Every Sic em ranger opens with the exact same skills. I'd just dodge roll twice towards them, steal (when stealth on steal) and remove them from the GW2 gene pool. 

One dodge, sicem soulbeast needs the quickness during the rapid fire Channel.

Or start wearing some defensive runes, like durability as I have explained multiple times.

As good news at least now it is more difficult for thieves to permastealth, it only took 9 years for Anet to fix that obnoxious sideffect.

[solemn.9608]

Thief stealth still isn't any better bc it's fundamentally OP lol

Just like how every class needs passive cleanses built in to make condi not fundamentally broken, so too does every class need reveals built into common utilities/traits (ele have zero, gl on any melee build which is most)