Returning player. What is up with HoT exploring?

[Piccolo.7296]

I'm someone that when I visit a new map, I want to explore it and 100% the map before I continue with the story. The core GW2 map, Tyria, I was easily able to do that. So why are the HoT maps making it extremely difficult to do this? I was able to 100% the first map, but the second map I'm hit with "Can't go here. You need this or that mastery" WTF? Just let me explore the full map without kittenblocking me with required masteries. I don't know why this irritates me, but I guess it does.

[Lysico.4906]

So do the masteries

[JayHog.3280]

Yeah, it's a bit stupid to an extent. And it's worse because masteries take forever to level up. I've had like 3 characters finish their story and almost 7 finish half the map, with 3 finishing over than half and I still don't have everything. And I've been doing metas left and right.

 

So every time I try to force a character to learn an elite, I go HoT because at least it helps me level up it's perks better.

[chronometria.3708]

59 minutes ago, Lysico.4906 said:

So do the masteries

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

20 hours ago, Piccolo.7296 said:

I'm someone that when I visit a new map, I want to explore it and 100% the map before I continue with the story. The core GW2 map, Tyria, I was easily able to do that. So why are the HoT maps making it extremely difficult to do this? I was able to 100% the first map, but the second map I'm hit with "Can't go here. You need this or that mastery" WTF? Just let me explore the full map without kittenblocking me with required masteries. I don't know why this irritates me, but I guess it does.

It's the concept of horizontal progression.  Instead of blocking you from progress via ilvl, they do it via the mastery system.  You'll find the same thing to a lesser degree in the PoF expansion.  Having said that, you're not alone in your frustration with this system.  Specifically with HoT they have several "filler" masteries which serve little purpose other than to time gate your progress. 

This wasn't a popular design, so the PoF expansion streamlined the system.  There you'll find that your progress is gated, but the masteries you unlock are useful beyond simply gating your progress.  For example, allowing your raptor to leap across a canyon you couldn't previously.  Or allowing your springer to jump up to a previously inaccessible cliff.

In both cases you may find that you can't complete maps linearly, but this was by design.  It's not some random attempt to kitten off completionists.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

I remember I used to just farm the octovine meta for big xp rewards, and loot.

It was quite fun honestly.

[Endaris.1452]

If you do map completion and events and in the process get the commune mastery points on the maps it should be absolutely trivial for you to unlock that just by exploring the other parts of the map and especially doing adventures and HPs.

The story even specifically bumps you with the nose with the fact that you should skill that exact mastery to progress after the initial story instance on the map that you can enter right at the entrance, basically asking you to explore.

I think specifically for AB, the only places you can't access without that mastery are 1 HP, 2 PoIs and 1 vista. And all of these are also accessible if you ask a nice mesmer to portal you in there I think.

 

For reference, that mastery requires 508000 EXP. Finishing the "The Floor is Lava" adventure near the entrance of the map rewards you with 200000 EXP for completing it for the first time on Gold (adding up Daily + first completion). The meta awards almost 100000 EXP. The story basically asks you to explore the map. I think it's also really reasonable to get it super fast if you don't ignore the adventures that are essentially burying you in EXP.

 

 

[Gibson.4036]

It’s a way of getting you to engage in the zone rather than just blowing through story chapters and out.

If you’re 100% exploring you should be getting way more experience and mps you need to unlock the mastery for the next zone.

And once you’ve done them on a character, you never have to again.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Emberfoot.6847]

2 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It’s a way of getting you to engage in the zone rather than just blowing through story chapters and out.

If you’re 100% exploring you should be getting way more comfortable and mps you need to unlock the mastery for the next zone.

And once you’ve done them on a character, you never have to again.

I personally mapped a lot of hot to 100% but to get every mastery done took a lot longer. Not because of exp, but because I was struggling to get the mastery points from adventures on gold. It is, however possible to get enough to map it all without total MPs. The only thing I find annoying with mapping HoT and onwards is the PoIs locked behind long event chains or metas.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

When ANet creates playtime extenders like Masteries, exploration and achievements, they tie some of these together, or tie them to content.  Their goal seems to have been to entice players into doing specific content they would normally not engage in. As much as I and some others might dislike this design decision, it is probably good for the game.  MMO's thrive when there are things for players to do, and most -- if not all -- MMO's use rewards of one sort or another to ensure that players keep coming back.

 

Why? Money.  Whether the game makes money via a cash shop or a sub. players who stop playing will also stop spending.

Edited July 10, 2022 by IndigoSundown.5419

[Gibson.4036]

59 minutes ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

 

 

Why? Money.  Whether the game makes money via a cash shop or a sub. players who stop playing will also stop spending.

And it’s in their best interest to keep people playing even if they don’t spend money. Non-paying players help the game feel populated, which is something the paying players expect.

[AIex.4105]

same, I started to play again gw2 after years of break and wanted to do the expantions, and jesus christ first map of Hot took me 2 days to complete, I hope second map dosnt require me anything else than mushropm,gliding or uperdraft stuff. Otherwise is waste of time I would rather do directly path of fire and get the flying mounts.

[Hashberry.4510]

Ehh they would like you to enjoy the game rather than burn through a checklist, so the kind of clumsy mastery system tries to blunt that impulse. All the maps work better if you just plunge and play, checking it all off is just dull and frustrating.

[mikansei.5742]

Yeeeah I remember greatly disliking this when I was first going through HoT. "Well if I can't continue the story till I get X mastery, I guess I'll work on map completion in the meantime-" SIKE! Can't complete a map either till you get even more masteries! 😒

PoF also did this in the first map where it required Raptor canyon jumping mastery, but IIRC that was the worst of the story gates and it eases up after that.

A tip for HoT mastery XP though - do Octovine. LOTS of Octovine. It gives stupidly good XP.

[Einsof.1457]

HoT is awesome. I've got 3000 hours clocked and still haven't got full exploration on all maps. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Einsof.1457

[SlayerXX.7138]

18 hours ago, Lysico.4906 said:

So do the masteries

Obviously yes. But it is horrible design. Most masteries feel like an artificial problem was created so the mastery can be the solution. Especially frustrating when people on mounts ignore path entirely different over the map anyway. Same with the POF masteries getting easier to some place with full powered springer is nice. Having a mastery Point gated on a Pillar that is impossible to reach otherwise feels like kitten.

[Luthan.5236]

This is intended - to slowly explore and have more fun. While unlocking new stuff. Also it is only once per account that you need the masteries + having mounts (Skyscale) will probably let you bypass a lot of things. (Except story that has some blockers where the mastery is required to progress I think.)

You might have more problems discovering/finding all the locations - especially when you get to the "third map" of HoT. Considered very annoying ... for new players. Hard to navigate until you get used to it.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Emberfoot.6847]

21 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

This is intended - to slowly explore and have more fun. While unlocking new stuff. Also it is only once per account that you need the masteries + having mounts (Skyscale) will probably let you bypass a lot of things. (Except story that has some blockers where the mastery is required to progress I think.)

You might have more problems discovering/finding all the locations - especially when you get to the "third map" of HoT. Considered very annoying ... for new players. Hard to navigate until you get used to it.

It was almost certainly intended to lengthen the game for sure. The trouble is it came out of the blue after the core game let you just do whatever, whenever, so a lot of older players who were used to being able to just blast through things just up and quit. It was ok for me, not fun but ok. Most of my guild however, dead inside a week or two of launch.

[Luthan.5236]

Well ... if they wanted to lenghten the game - they could have made masteries per character not per account. And in HoT you have mounts at the start as well - where you require them to access certain areas. (When you are still unlocking the base mounts.) Though this progressed a lot faster. Gliding in  HoT does not require to be maxed and I think most areas can be accessed pretty fast.

(For some there exist alternate routes ... where ley line gliding is supposed to by used but other access is possible if you look for wiki or for vids.)

A sense of "progression" ... I think some people like this. Not being able to access just everything - instead unlocking it first. That is probably why they started with the mastery system in the first place. (Also adding some other less interesting masteries there as well.) Personally I find it more annoying if certain areas of the map are locked behind meta events (only accessible at some times).

The one area in Bjora I think. For map completion in Bloodtide Coast I think the one area used to port you out (vista or skill point I think?) - where the Taida Covington meta is. Only worked after completing that meta event. But nowadays (at least the last time I had been there) ... I think this works all the time. (As long as you have the mount to go there.)

Edited July 11, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[DarcShriek.5829]

Isn't complaining about not being to enter an area due to not having the proper masteries the same as not being able to survive max level areas while still at level 2?

[DarcShriek.5829]

24 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Well ... if they wanted to lenghten the game - they could have made masteries per character not per account. And in HoT you have mounts at the start as well - where you require them to access certain areas. (When you are still unlocking the base mounts.) Though this progressed a lot faster. Gliding in  HoT does not require to be maxed and I think most areas can be accessed pretty fast.

(For some there exist alternate routes ... where ley line gliding is supposed to by used but other access is possible if you look for wiki or for vids.)

A sense of "progression" ... I think some people like this. Not being able to access just everything - instead unlocking it first. That is probably why they started with the mastery system in the first place. (Also adding some other less interesting masteries there as well.) Personally I find it more annoying if certain areas of the map are locked behind meta events (only accessible at some times).

The one area in Bjora I think. For map completion in Bloodtide Coast I think the one area used to port you out (vista or skill point I think?) - where the Taida Covington meta is. Only worked after completing that meta event. But nowadays (at least the last time I had been there) ... I think this works all the time. (As long as you have the mount to go there.)

There is nothing in HoT that requires mounts.  HoT existed years before mounts did.

[Piccolo.7296]

2 hours ago, Emberfoot.6847 said:

It was almost certainly intended to lengthen the game for sure. The trouble is it came out of the blue after the core game let you just do whatever, whenever, so a lot of older players who were used to being able to just blast through things just up and quit. It was ok for me, not fun but ok. Most of my guild however, dead inside a week or two of launch.

 

This in bold exactly. 

 

There are no restrictions in the core game when it comes to exploring and completing a map. The first thing I did when I created a new character from level 1 was go through every single map and 100% all of them. I was level 80 just from fully completing each map before I even started the first personal story mission. 

 

People will say "Well they want you to enjoy the content rather than just going through a checklist" That is my enjoyment to go through a check list and complete everything before I move on. I have a mild case of OCD. If I leave a map and I'm missing things I can't stop thinking about it and go crazy. It is my opinion that GW2 (the core game) has hands down the best open world content of any MMORPG I have played (WoW, FF14, ESO). The 2012 base game open world content has aged extremely well. Outside of the somewhat dated graphics, if you didn't know any better you would think GW2 was released within the last 2-3 years. That's how good I think the base game open world content is.

 

Obviously no amount of my complaining is going to change something that was released several years ago. I'm just extremely disappointed that Arenanet took away my freedom on the HoT maps by gating me with masteries, and I'm assuming it will be more of the same for the other two expansions. It kind of reduces my drive to keep playing every day. Thank goodness that GW2 is a B2P game and I can stop playing and pick it back up whenever.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Piccolo.7296

[mythical.6315]

22 hours ago, JayHog.3280 said:

Yeah, it's a bit stupid to an extent. And it's worse because masteries take forever to level up. I've had like 3 characters finish their story and almost 7 finish half the map, with 3 finishing over than half and I still don't have everything. And I've been doing metas left and right.

 

So every time I try to force a character to learn an elite, I go HoT because at least it helps me level up it's perks better.

Fortunately the masteries required for the story and to map complete are very easy to get. You can even bypass needing some of the ones for map completions if you have mounts. 

[Zera.9435]

26 minutes ago, Piccolo.7296 said:

 

This in bold exactly. 

 

There are no restrictions in the core game when it comes to exploring and completing a map. The first thing I did when I created a new character from level 1 was go through every single map and 100% all of them. I was level 80 just from fully completing each map before I even started the first personal story mission. 

 

People will say "Well they want you to enjoy the content rather than just going through a checklist" That is my enjoyment to go through a check list and complete everything before I move on. I have a mild case of OCD. If I leave a map and I'm missing things I can't stop thinking about it and go crazy. It is my opinion that GW2 (the core game) has hands down the best open world content of any MMORPG I have played (WoW, FF14, ESO). The 2012 base game open world content has aged extremely well. Outside of the somewhat dated graphics, if you didn't know any better you would think GW2 was released within the last 2-3 years. That's how good I think the base game open world content is.

 

Obviously no amount of my complaining is going to change something that was released several years ago. I'm just extremely disappointed that Arenanet took away my freedom on the HoT maps by gating me with masteries, and I'm assuming it will be more of the same for the other two expansions. It kind of reduces my drive to keep playing every day. Thank goodness that GW2 is a B2P game and I can stop playing and pick it back up whenever.

As other have pointed out, map completion requires the masteries to an extent. The masteries are there as what they call 'horizontal progression'  (as opposed to vertical progression which is the gear/stat grind in other games). It was designed so that you can't do everything there is to be done in one day and you won't want to return. It's made to incentivize continued play weeks/months/years after release. You are not losing any freedom at all. You are simply given more things to do to reach a goal.

[Hashberry.4510]

These games are not good for some folks.