Kaineng needs like 1,500 additional NPCs to feel even remotely alive.

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

14 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

You guys need to do to NK what you did to Lion's Arch and Divinity's Reach when the game launched: fill it with NPCs that move and interact with each other so the kitten thing feels alive.

 

As it is right now, it's a pretty depressing place - with too many reused patterns and assets by the way. 

Yes, totally agree! I remember that was one of the main reasons I quickly felt somewhat disappointed with the expansion - and that map in particular. It's grandious and beautiful and all that, but it's missing life. 
I wonder how much work it is to add all those missing NPCs with interesting and culturally-rich dialogues - the way I see it, the "hardest" and perhaps more expensive (?) part would be the additional voice acting, but they could just "reuse" voice actresses and actors that are already working on the next expansion? Does anyone have experience with this field and could explain how adding VA would work?

[Aodlop.1907]

Traveling through this "city" feels like playing a GTA game on your PS2.

Yes, you're surrounded by squares, but they're not really buildings since you can't enter them, and you know the windows aren't really windows, but just glass textured-walls with nothing inside.

[JayHog.3280]

I dunno where you've been, but I've been streaming that map and it's confusing as heck. So many enemies around several corners, so many stray NPCs here and there that I was surprised that it wasn't forcing my laptop to chug the game down.

[Lottie.5370]

I'm clearly in the minority here but I thought the map was quite alive. I really enjoyed going around and listening to the dialog between NPCs - quite a lot of them were yellow named (so if you attack them they stop talking), but if you just chill there you get to listen to it all.

 

I also really like how the zone looks, I think it's quite charming.

 

I don't think adding more NPCs would be a bad thing, especially if people feel like it's empty, but 1500 is a bit exaggerated, no?

[Randulf.7614]

16 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

I'm clearly in the minority here but I thought the map was quite alive. I really enjoyed going around and listening to the dialog between NPCs - quite a lot of them were yellow named (so if you attack them they stop talking), but if you just chill there you get to listen to it all.

 

I also really like how the zone looks, I think it's quite charming.

 

I don't think adding more NPCs would be a bad thing, especially if people feel like it's empty, but 1500 is a bit exaggerated, no?

1500 is clearly way too much, but it is a vast empty space otherwise. It could easily have

- law enforcement themed bounties and ambient cops arresting petty criminals.

- griffin races

- more npcs walking up and down the levels

- a much more active sky line

- more npcs utilising the waterways with fishing, boats

- tons of ambient dialogue

- many, many more events utilising space from top to bottom, open area to alleyway

- more ambient use of shops, vendor stalls. Think of the fun named cyberpunk style shop names over buildings, with areas you can go in. Even Amnoon had a mini marketplace with that Awakened guy you could talk to. I enjoyed exploring concrete LA more than Kaineng.

Currently this feels like a city with no one living there compared to Divinity’s Reach or even Amnoon. It’s not really a threat when the mechs go rogue when there’s no one to feel threatened. Stuff is there, but it’s just so basic and so bland and so not very Anet if I’m honest.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[SinisterSlay.6973]

I would say 1500 is to little.  There should be crowds. Cantha appears to have the tech for mechanized food production. That means population explosions.  There would be crowds of people. And when the black out happens, crowds should run away and hide in buildings, making the city feel empty.

[Baddxian.3851]

 

7 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Currently this feels like a city with no one living there

Maybe thy should have added, oh, a Bank or a Trading Post to attract the crowds...?

[nopoet.2960]

See what we need is City of Heroes: New Kaineng edition.

I don't know how many people played CoH but New Kaineng is perfect for that kind of game play.  Everything is in place different gangs, min sec, lots of doors leading to unspecified spaces.  Devs it could be glorious!

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I love how the city looks so I'd love for it to have more life too. 

[Antycypator.9874]

Fill it with PLAYERS, not NPCs.

One of the problems lays in multiple version of the same map. Everytime I'm there, I have to swap map at least once in less than 10 minutes upon arriving.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:12 AM, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Destroy it repeatedly? 👀

And rebuild it into a sterile, clean, but in the end far less interesting version? They have done that already.

[Aodlop.1907]

9 hours ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

Fill it with PLAYERS, not NPCs.

 

I mean...Why not both?

[Bast.7253]

I still think a train-top zerg fight would have been cool for this zone. Really just having more mobs/more events/random mugging. Add more ambient floating billboards and holograms or something. It just looks unfinished in general.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Kaineng on it's own is a nice design, but yeah it laks a lot.

I only visit it when I want to do the meta. And that is it. There is nothing else to do there, that makes me come back to the map. The streets are empty, the few events are copy/paste... we need a more lively Kaineng... and to some extend the same goes for the other maps. (Although Seitung is pretty well done, in my oppinion)

[daninumbers.4036]

Kaineng was the map I was most looking forward to see and it was the biggest disappointment. I was expecting more crowds, like what you see in the loading screen. But also darker nights like in the concept art. Even darker actually so holograms and neons would stand out, being a more "electric city". Even if the rest of the maps had little difference between day and night lighting, at least Kaineng featuring darker nights. Like Ember Bay has this lens flare effect when you look at the sun, you can't see it anywhere else.

1500 is exaggerating, but it needs more city life. Letting you go inside more buildings would have been nice, but even after you finish with Mai Trin's business there you can't go in the building anymore. It feels like it's all props, some npcs here and there, yellows hanging around and the aggresive ones in their areas. I feel like there are more enemies than citizens.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Pretty sure the "1500 NPCs" from the OP is just hyperbole, kids.

[Cait Sith.4650]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:42 PM, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

I wonder how much work it is to add all those missing NPCs with interesting and culturally-rich dialogues - the way I see it, the "hardest" and perhaps more expensive (?) part would be the additional voice acting, but they could just "reuse" voice actresses and actors that are already working on the next expansion? Does anyone have experience with this field and could explain how adding VA would work?

Not much work, actually. It's more the fact that the expansion was rushed. There are also no adventures, bounties or mount races. Arborstone is nicely done, but the other maps needed that treatment too, Seitung Province being a little above the others in terms of refinement.
If they were adding only NPC's and dialogues with interesting lore bits, a skeleton crew with 2 or 3 months to work can do it for one map the size of Kaineng. Create some nice dialogues, do the lore's fact-checking, use the NPC assets that are already available for Cantha, and other regions for added flavour, shuffle them so you don't get a clone army moving around, and take care of the pathing. Regarding the voice acting, they can use their in-house and/or regular cast, that voice the player characters and main characters, that will make the budget increase negligible. Plenty of the main voice cast in the game already voice several characters at the same time, and many NPC's. Since it's connected to this matter and Kaineng, Ry Chase, the voice of Yao, also voiced several NPC's, in Kaineng and other EoD maps. They are easy to notice. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm7775467/

A few examples from their regular voice cast, both voicing several important characters, and providing NPC voices:
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fred_Tatasciore
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nolan_North
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Debra_Wilson
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courtenay_Taylor
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nika_Futterman

Plenty more examples exist, so the cost wouldn't be the issue, it's more the matter of ArenaNet actually wanting to do this, and setting up a team to execute it.

Also, during the pandemic, ArenaNet provided the means so the voice acting could be done remotely, so in case they need some emergency voice acting, those will surely make it easier too.

As a bonus, you might find this interesting, regarding voice acting in Guild Wars 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbUeipidfhQ

Edited July 19, 2022 by Cait Sith.4650

[Smoky.5348]

The real problem l see with the city's livelihood is how every time you pass by an NPC, they always say the exact same thing. They have a system for NPCs to walk around and say stuff on their own schedule, so why didn't they use it? Were the designers afraid players would miss the dialogue because they knew they wouldn't hang around the maps for long?

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

11 hours ago, Cait Sith.4650 said:

Not much work, actually. It's more the fact that the expansion was rushed. There are also no adventures, bounties or mount races. Arborstone is nicely done, but the other maps needed that treatment too, Seitung Province being a little above the others in terms of refinement.
If they were adding only NPC's and dialogues with interesting lore bits, a skeleton crew with 2 or 3 months to work can do it for one map the size of Kaineng. Create some nice dialogues, do the lore's fact-checking, use the NPC assets that are already available for Cantha, and other regions for added flavour, shuffle them so you don't get a clone army moving around, and take care of the pathing. Regarding the voice acting, they can use their in-house and/or regular cast, that voice the player characters and main characters, that will make the budget increase negligible. Plenty of the main voice cast in the game already voice several characters at the same time, and many NPC's. Since it's connected to this matter and Kaineng, Ry Chase, the voice of Yao, also voiced several NPC's, in Kaineng and other EoD maps. They are easy to notice. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm7775467/

A few examples from their regular voice cast, both voicing several important characters, and providing NPC voices:
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fred_Tatasciore
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nolan_North
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Debra_Wilson
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courtenay_Taylor
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nika_Futterman

Plenty more examples exist, so the cost wouldn't be the issue, it's more the matter of ArenaNet actually wanting to do this, and setting up a team to execute it.

Also, during the pandemic, ArenaNet provided the means so the voice acting could be done remotely, so in case they need some emergency voice acting, those will surely make it easier too.

As a bonus, you might find this interesting, regarding voice acting in Guild Wars 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbUeipidfhQ

Thank you for all the links and info! I had noticed at least Eir's voice used for random female charr NPCs, and also Yao's voice for NPCs in Cantha. These VAs are so talented! I had no idea the same VA voiced Almorra and also Ellen Kiel!  

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Players complain about this zone but I guarantee if you put a hub there half the player base would use it. Well, half of those who have access to the expansion, at least.

 

All it really needs is a HoT-style 24/7 meta. Its the same thing that makes all the PoF and EoD zones feel dead, except Dragon's End. Ever since around LWS3 content has only focused on a brief meta so players only join the map every few hours, collect their loot bags and leave immediately afterwards.

 

There's a reason Dry Top, Silverwastes and all the Heart of Maguuma maps remain popular many years later, and I wish the devs would learn from the past instead of trying to replace it.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Cait Sith.4650]

3 hours ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

These VAs are so talented! I had no idea the same VA voiced Almorra and also Ellen Kiel!

Indeed they are. Almorra probably had the less noticeable voice change in the game. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jayne_Taini