A gamemode dominated by same 3x professions for 10+ years....and players are triggered when killed by a lone roamer

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

This is a made-up problem, WvW doesn't need class balance, doesn't benefit from it, and more than that, it should not be balanced. It should ideally be more purely player-driven than other modes, the way it was envisioned from the beginning, with only loose balancing and game rules.

[LetoII.3782]

@Warrior @Elementalist

 

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Fun Fact: OP is defending the 1800+ range 100-0 Soulbeast build.

There was a thread on here for it earlier but i think mod deleted it.

[Xenesis.6389]

2 hours ago, Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:

This is a made-up problem, WvW doesn't need class balance, doesn't benefit from it, and more than that, it should not be balanced. It should ideally be more purely player-driven than other modes, the way it was envisioned from the beginning, with only loose balancing and game rules.

Well good news! we've always had imbalance! why we have forced meta's to run the best, why a couple classes are wanted in every single group, why only certain specs are acceptable in groups. Player driven, yeah no problem, make sure you bring yourself into discord, run a meta class with meta gear and meta build and fart out meta ton of boons, cause when you play wvw make sure you do it like a pve raid and not a world boss. Roaming, oh yeah make sure you have 5 others in your shadow when you "solo" roam now.

/slowclap 

We having fun yet? yeah loads, when a group wipes once they hop maps, zerg busting you say? bwahahahaha not these days, when a map queue boon blob lands on a map they kill content, groups leave and people go afk till they leave, the only ones left to farm are the morons who think 5 acs will kill a group. When gankers roam around to 10v1 others, time for people to afk at spawn. I see this every, single, night.

 

The only take away from all this mess is, you're right, we shouldn't bother asking for balance, because anet has shown their bias, they will just screw it up even more tuning for pve play.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Fun Fact: OP is defending the 1800+ range 100-0 Soulbeast build.

There was a thread on here for it earlier but i think mod deleted it.

 

So they're defending ganking noobs? 

Well, good thing WvW is play as you want I guess--but I'd have thought people would have learned to dodge by now 🙃

[Sleepwalker.1398]

44 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

So they're defending ganking noobs? 

Well, good thing WvW is play as you want I guess--but I'd have thought people would have learned to dodge by now 🙃

Yes, dodged the rapid fire, now just have to deal with the Smoke Assault. 😉

[Gotejjeken.1267]

42 minutes ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Yes, dodged the rapid fire, now just have to deal with the Smoke Assault. 😉

 

Use other dodge, kiting ability, or some kind of damage mitigation--I'd imagine should be easy for all but maybe non-harbinger necros. 

I think it is getting easier though as haven't seen many 1-shot Soulbeast in long time, and I had to switch to melee variant to get it to work because of the number of hate bubbles around.  

[cyberzombie.7348]

4 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Yes, dodged the rapid fire, now just have to deal with the Smoke Assault. 😉

Don't forget the kick + worldly impact or worse, maul.

[Dadnir.5038]

18 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

@Dadnir.5038

  The only 2 dominating  specs from the old days are Necros and Guardians, wich are also divided in several specializations that work very well, Reaper m8 be the only melee class in WvW everything else is condi range or minstrell support.

Warrior got deleted from game basicly,  the GWEN meta is now GGGGNNNNN most of the cases. 

The only adition have been the minstrell mesmers and the  scrappers minstrells , we already had in the past power engies or holos wich got replaced by power scrappers so... IMO cant be seen has a new adition.

IMO i think it is more critical and healthy to the game to talk about stats dominance than class dominance, class dominance exist due stats stacking under some specific classes that makes any other class not needed, the issue are not the classes but the stats that leads to very lame stacking effect.

I have a slightly different opinion.

From my point of view the issue is boon management. Guardian, Necro and the Engi newcomer all have a critical role in boon management that no other profession can compete against.

Guardian have a quasi monoply on group stability and aegis (For stability, he doesn't have a monopoly but is sooooooo much better at it than any other profession that it's not much different than a monopoly)

Necromancer dominate the boon hate market. There is not much to say on this as it's been his niche since release. The issue is that with each x-pac, the various professions' roles are expanded however we have yet to see something able to compete against a necromancer in term of boon hate.

As for Engineer, I'm not sure where it stand exactly right now but it managed to get a solid reputation in zerg thanks to a high condition convertion rate.

I won't deny that "stat dominance" might be an issue as well, however I do believe that the critical point of interest regarding the variety of profession inside a zerg is still boon management. The day you'll have some serious competition to provide stab/aegis you'll likely see les guardian in zerg. The same goes for the necromancer, the day a competitive boon hater appear, the population of necromancer will dwindle (of course the important point is that those need to be "competitive". The poor attempt that Spellbreaker and Untamed are don't reach this level, even Mesmer and it's large amount of boon rip don't really hold a candle to the necromancer as it stand).

[Jitters.9401]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:09 PM, Magnuzone.8395 said:

Sorry I was aiming for the guy behind you.

Now this reply is quality humor.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

1 hour ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

Don't forget the kick + worldly impact or worse, maul.

Yea man, the dude said just dodge it. Shouldn't be a problem.

[Aeolus.3615]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I have a slightly different opinion.

From my point of view the issue is boon management. Guardian, Necro and the Engi newcomer all have a critical role in boon management that no other profession can compete against.

Guardian have a quasi monoply on group stability and aegis (For stability, he doesn't have a monopoly but is sooooooo much better at it than any other profession that it's not much different than a monopoly)

Necromancer dominate the boon hate market. There is not much to say on this as it's been his niche since release. The issue is that with each x-pac, the various professions' roles are expanded however we have yet to see something able to compete against a necromancer in term of boon hate.

As for Engineer, I'm not sure where it stand exactly right now but it managed to get a solid reputation in zerg thanks to a high condition convertion rate.

I won't deny that "stat dominance" might be an issue as well, however I do believe that the critical point of interest regarding the variety of profession inside a zerg is still boon management. The day you'll have some serious competition to provide stab/aegis you'll likely see les guardian in zerg. The same goes for the necromancer, the day a competitive boon hater appear, the population of necromancer will dwindle (of course the important point is that those need to be "competitive". The poor attempt that Spellbreaker and Untamed are don't reach this level, even Mesmer and it's large amount of boon rip don't really hold a candle to the necromancer as it stand).

 

Necromancer isnt the only one to boon hate, Mesmer chrono is stronger with boon removals, while necro is strong at converting them to condis, its better to stack mesmers in this case since will make enemy scrappers more useless and less convert rate unless u can have more necros converting more boons to condis than enemy reverting them back.

Most classes run minstrells or condi bunker in zerg gameplay, ic even bow ranger with minstrells, minstrell warriors, minstre mesmers, minstrells eles, minstrell druids, condi bunker necros, druids and some other condi spam spec, even on small scale gameplay most are minstrell and condi bunkers this is the problem.. stats.

These stats carry way to much groups and the META roles are the only ones needed and they excell at that due the possible stats existing due their very defensive stats, FB's are super sturdy due perma boons mass stacked and their stats, if Anet chaged minstrell stats toughness for lets say crit, they would be doing  more damage (and get more bags) but would be bit more squishy and that would cut the effect of the boon ball they would have to be carefull and l2p better rather than ball up, this would give them a more stressfull and balanced combat rather than the low effort boon ball is.

This would make smaller groups with better players to pressure well bigger groups be more eficient rather than the big zerg win ONLY by numbers.

IF players want big boon duration and healing power for support they need to loose toughness and their sturdiness, if they want sturdiness they need to loose boon duration, or they will mix match and loose a bit of both.

 

Theres to much minstrell carry n spam by numbers... wich needs to be adressesed and this is the issue of the ugly combat gw2 has bocome.

The issue m8 not be the weird balance but Anet cant balance in 1st place cause the stats are broken in 1st place, reason why in spvp results in stats removing to adress balance issues. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Ronin.4501]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Use other dodge...

My mirage doesn't have another dodge 😭😭😭

[PinkTacoLover.7603]

21 minutes ago, Ronin.4501 said:

My mirage doesn't have another dodge 😭😭😭

mix dodge,invul, block, spam sword, spam clones, hide, teleport

[Xenesis.6389]

14 minutes ago, PinkTacoLover.7603 said:

mix dodge,invul, block, spam sword, spam clones, hide, teleport

Meanwhile every other class presses dodge again....

[GoguSpatzialu.7948]

On 7/18/2022 at 3:53 PM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

When will I be able to play my Hamm/GS Zerker frontliner again to draw the enemy spike, survive it and cause confusion to the enemy with dmg and CC?? 😢

When you create a time machine and go back to 2016. Remember to buy bitcoin and send me some if you do.

[GoguSpatzialu.7948]

17 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Fun Fact: OP is defending the 1800+ range 100-0 Soulbeast build.

There was a thread on here for it earlier but i think mod deleted it.

Generally, whenever you see someone complaining about a boonblob, it's usually either such a ranger or thief, yes.

That's not to say that there is no problem. The recent nerfs to boon denial/stripping in the form of WoD and even engi's super niche throw mine build are mind boggling.

[Xenesis.6389]

2 minutes ago, GoguSpatzialu.7948 said:

Generally, whenever you see someone complaining about a boonblob, it's usually either such a ranger or thief, yes.

But I don't play ranger or thief, I play the boon strip classes, mesmer or necro.....

[subversiontwo.7501]

As always with threads like this one, it feels like a couple of completely divorced topics are being baked into one in faulty ways that detracts from anything constructive that the thread had to offer in the first place.

• The nerfs to Bubbles and some Staff abilities being bad is something I think alot of people can get behind. It doesn't need to be motivated by ranting or pointing fingers at some vague evil when there are known reasons and explanations of why out there. You can easily criticise the real reason given instead and get more people to agree with you. If only you would look at the reasons that were given.
• The issue with boon spam feels very exhausted at this point but is also something I think most people can get behind, if the spam is the topic of discussion and not something else.
• Mistaking the pickup meta for what dominates WvW as a mode is something usually just done by people who want to be snowflakes in squads created and run by other players.
• Mistaking boon spam for the balance of boons and conditions to strips and cleanses, is just incessant whining by people who complain from a weak position and from the outside looking in. This is a multiplayer game, you are supposed to be rewarded for composing groups with care and attention compared to just grabbing whatever or only playing next-to each other rather than playing together. A carefully composed squad (meta or not) is stronger than a cloud, from a purely "mechanical" standpoint, and it is supposed to be. The same tools those (larger-) squads use against your (possibly smaller-) cloud are the same tools that enable small groups to zergbust larger groups.
• The same goes for mistaking boon spam for the mere existance (or a natural zero-sum balance) of certain boons, types of gear or roles for classes and misleading oneself to believe that ruining said balance would somehow benefit- or be allowed to benefit themselves. Concentration stats isn't spam. Most stability sources are out-spammed by CC. Things like support is "meta" and asked for because of how strong other things are (CC/condi etc).

Edited July 19, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Xenesis.6389]

Organized voice groups have always been a step above clouding and pugs for 10 years, and that should have been the only gap between them.

[Arolandis.8360]

On 7/17/2022 at 11:42 PM, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

It's how the game works, if Anet deleted these three tomorrow, zergs would find another way, create new compositions, and the game mode would remain the exact same, you would still have zergs with perma stability, perma healing, perma projectile destruction, perma all boons, etc, the compositions would just be switched, i think the only thing they would lose would be perma superspeed, right now, i can't think of another class/spec that can aplly it like Scrapper do.

Yep exactly.

This is why I don't think this game needs anymore nerfs. They tend to nerf other classes at the same time as buffing others, and it tips the scale in the other direction rather than making everyone viable and allowing them to enjoy their class choices to the fullest.

[Absurd.2947]

I see the battle between Camp "Brainless Zerging" and Camp "I just want to press a button and win so I play ranger/condi build" is still going strong. 

[Kozumi.5816]

On 7/17/2022 at 5:09 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Purity of purpose was added in Feb 2018

Med kit reworked in May 2018

Gyros reworked in Mar 2019

Basically forced their way into the meta, they booted ele's out of the heal/cleanse role, they booted mesmers out of the stealth role.

Doubt any class has had as many major positive buffs as them in the past four years.

The game is more fun when Scrapper isn't playable.

[DKRathalos.9625]

On 7/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

Guardian have a quasi monoply on group stability and aegis (For stability, he doesn't have a monopoly but is sooooooo much better at it than any other profession that it's not much different than a monopoly)

 

Necromancer dominate the boon hate market. There is not much to say on this as it's been his niche since release. The issue is that with each x-pac, the various professions' roles are expanded however we have yet to see something able to compete against a necromancer in term of boon hate.

 

As for Engineer, I'm not sure where it stand exactly right now but it managed to get a solid reputation in zerg thanks to a high condition convertion rate.

Guardian: you are correct

Necro: you are correct

Engi: here I will add because the condi cleanse "monopoly" like tempest can cleanse condi too but not as frequent as engi, plus Monopoly Superpeed and Stealth Gyro. basically Engi is Meta because Necro is meta, Necro create so much condi which need to be cleansed by Engi.

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:38 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

Maybe DH as a dps alternative to FB.

Maybe?

There is no "maybe" here. People stack DH.

On 7/17/2022 at 8:38 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

Same with tempest

Scrapper support has too much utility stacked on it. Yeah, a tempest is fine, but people want the superspeed and stealth from a scrapper. That's not even mentioning other support alternatives. I can manage on druid, to the point where people start pointing it out becauseI compete with the scrappers on cleanses. But I know that I can't convert the condis, I can't stack stealth as easily as a scrapper and my only source of superpspeed is a trait I'm not gonna be running. I'm also putting much more effort into the actual healing than a medkit user is.

Tight and stale is putting it mildly.