Besides Balance and Bugs, whats some changes that could have made EoD better?

[Ausar.9542]

Besides Balance and Bugs, whats some changes that could have made EoD better?

 

I would have liked it if New Kaineng City was a new majory city rather than a PvE map. Could have new festival events there for a new update to festival content.  

 

I would have liked more PvE maps as well with interesting themes. 

 

New gameplay features like Player Housing would have been nice. 

 

Under Water Combat change, with new under water content.

 

Battle Skiffs could have been a cool feature as well. Along side battle ships for PvE events as well as in a future WvW map or something.

[Freya.9075]

How do you think players who don’t have eod would feel if they added events to new kaineng? Should they be left out since they did not buy the expansion? They would scream p2w over that.  Events should stay in core tyria. 
 

Expansions tend to have 4-5 maps. We got 4 so it’s not more or less then we got with previous expansions. It was to be expected. 

 

player housing is all good, but we got fishing. If we got housing, the players who wanted fishing would say the exact same thing as you do now. Bring forth the pitchforks!!! We want fishing!! 

 

underwater content I’m all for. Maybe they will add more and adjust it later on. Who knows 

 

battle skiffs is meh to me. I can see why you would want it though. 

[kharmin.7683]

A little late to the party, no?  We had a whole section dedicated to this at one point. 

[Gibson.4036]

28 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

A little late to the party, no?  We had a whole section dedicated to this at one point. 

What if ArenaNet had done what they said they were going to do and moved the active threads in there to the main forums when they archived the EOD forum?

[Ausar.9542]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

A little late to the party, no?  We had a whole section dedicated to this at one point. 

End of Dragons Discussion (Archived)

 

not new discussions can happen there

[Gibson.4036]

For the confused:

Quote

we'll be archiving this forum in one week (March 28) and moving all active conversations about the live game to the General Discussion forum so you can keep chatting

Surprise, they didn't move any of the discussions to the General Discussion forum.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Randulf.7614]

These are a collection of my thoughts. As always, they only reflect my opinions and do not necs represent the opinions of others etc etc etc
 

- Many, many more dynamic events and a variety of them themed to each map. Kaineng is tailor made for some law enforcement style events and a wider use of the map in general

- Adventures and races. The disappointment of climbing to the top of Kainengs arch and Jade and not having a griffon race.

- Bounties. Again, EoD is tailor made for these

- Side stories. It’s asking a bit too much here given we had a longer, meatier story, but this could have been a chance to tell some other stories alongside the main plot. EoD maps could also use better map storytelling, whether through the meta style of HoT or the excellent way PoF handles map storytelling across the continent and then brilliantly turns the perspective on its head in Vabbi.

- More water content stuff. Leviathan was a good start, but it was supposed to be the Sea Dragon. It’s annoying to me they moved the tentacled horrors onto some other mysterious thing, but to have so little else underwater or use for the skiff beyond a fishing platform (which I admit was fantastic)

- More use for the turtle

- More maps. 4 maps was a massive disappointment. Five or six I would have been a better aim. HoTs biggest issue for me was only 4 maps and one of those was basically one big event. It made up for it on replayability which again EoD lacks in its events and metas prior to Jade Sea.

- Raids and fractals. I have no issue with strikes at all, but one raid didn’t seem a big ask and I don’t even raid. A couple of fractals - maybe something from Factions or tied into Shiro. 
 

That’s a lot of things admittedly, but EoD was partly sold on taking the best of HoT and PoF to make something exciting and IBS was foreshortened for it. I hoped for a fuller expansion.

Others’ mileage will vary

[Labjax.2465]

In my view:

- Not using bright green (or bright any color, for that matter) as the main aesthetic for everything.

- Making jade bots account bound core at least and not using a battery mechanic for everything.

- Not tying fishing into other collections, i.e. keeping it to itself for people who like fishing in a game.

- Making all of the metas more rewarding as you do them, not just at the end.

- Not putting part of the siege turtle collection in instanced PvE content.

- Making research notes feel more meaningful than "gold sink with extra steps."

There may be more, but that's what I think of right now.

[Gorem.8104]

ADVENTURES

WHY IS THERE NO ADVENTURES. 

We have huge vertical for no reason city with clipping buildings as its extremely badly designed, but at least they could have made a flying course with adventures!! There is no reason to ever return to eod. 

If anything, the best way to improve EoD would be to revert the game to the state it was before it released, game was more fun and balanced then. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Omega.6801]

- Sigils and Runes for the new elites
- higher map capacity
- more minis, outfits, skins to buy forthe new currencies
- more NPCs for Kaineg and Seitung to mmake the places feel more alive
- decide wether the last map should be an immersive story experience or a meta map
- more under water content
- more uses for skiffs/turtles/bots if we have to have them

If we're talking what ANet should've done:
- don't waste resources on fishing and skiffs, fishing was a mistake
- focus on telling a better story, as always the first half/two thirds of the story are great then it's rushed to the finish line just to get it over with

[artcreator.4859]

Getting rid of the excess effects,

 

The Renyak fight is almost unplayable, it's very well designed except you can't dam see it! All that hard work gone to waste. It doesn't just make it look horrible but actually makes the fight harder to play, you can't see all his telegraphs or red circles.

 

Effects should just scale down when in a big group like mini pets do

Edited August 20, 2022 by artcreator.4859

[Astralporing.1957]

Make maps smaller, but more filled with content and, with higher player caps, so they do not seem so empty most of the time. Especially for New Kaineng.

Do not try to force modern aestethics on everything, to the degree where the Cantha identity is prety much lost.

Make meta events shorter, without the need of half-hour long preevents

Make meta events scale better for smaller player numbers.

Do not balance OW meta events around instanced content level player performance.

Put more repeatable stuff in there (and i mean something more interesting to do than just sitting in one lace for hours clicking 2-3 skills trying to get that one fish).

Make rewards more universal, and not so specifically tied to Aurene legendaries for the most part.

make jade bot system and upgrading account-wide instead of gear-based.

Don't require workbenches for option swapping.

 

Heavily personal opinion:

do a better story. This one was cringey on so many levels that small fixes and changes just would not be enough.

 

Minor nitpicks:

do not lock turtle collection behind strike completion.

make turtle more useful (and interesting to use) for owners, even when they are alone (at this point most of that is moved towards the gunner, not the driver).

Edited August 20, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Krzysztof.5973]

13 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Not really a new discussion.

Why the hostility? Let the mods decide what they want to do this this thread. If people want to discuss it, let them do it, instead of coming here and acting as a janitor 🙄

[Astralporing.1957]

10 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Why the hostility?

That's kharmin for you. If anything has been mentioned on this forum even once, it is no longer a valid topic for discussion. If you make a new thread, you will be pointed that an old one already exists. If you post in that old thread, you will be told to stop necroposting. Even if the topic is still ver much relevant, there won't be any "valid" avenue for you to say so.

Because reasons.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Cronospere.8143]

Guild content

And tengu race (they made all these different new models..)

Oh and griffon adventures. Skyscale rifts. Beetle races

Edited August 20, 2022 by Cronospere.8143

[Moradorin.6217]

2 hours ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

Guild content

And tengu race (they made all these different new models..)

Oh and griffon adventures. Skyscale rifts. Beetle races

Guild Content/Guild Mission overhaul, address the fact that halls arent used for the most part and its because they arent useful by design yet they cost a ton and decorations cost a ton and hardly get seen because people dont spend time in the halls and most guilds are at best an lfg chat since guilds lack a purpose.

 

A town woulda been a good idea. The little hangout map is neat but it feels pointless and I didnt ever feel like bothering to level it up or continue to explore EoD after getting to the end of the story and having no reasonably convenient way to successfully do the meta and the other eod events always felt underpopulated, fishing was a pain in the @$$ sadly and coulda been a fun side game but they made it unfun by desig [cause it take allot of quick finger twiddling with small rewards, which IMO = big fail ]

 

Especs seemed like a stuborn attempt by devs to attempt to demonstrate they are right and players are wrong about things like 1 dodge mirage (vindicator comes to mind) rather than try to make the game fun.

Mechs are too big and visually get in the way.

 

The timing on the balance changed I think put people off just as they are trying to adjust to the new meta, etc which only made it all feel more extreme.

 

The skiffs dont feel usefull to me but I dont like to fish. I sorta think the idea of fishing and skiffs isnt a bad idea. I just dont enjoy fishing and feel content with my skimmer to cross water quickly and the skiff seems unnecessary which makes me wonder what else we could have had instead.

[Moradorin.6217]

The game lacks social aspects mostly and it IMO all boils down to how guilds and guild missions are kinda broken in that they are useless, excluding the chat box, material nodes, and boosts.

[IYield.1204]

In my opinion, there were a few things that made this expansion a far more shallow experience that I feel could have been avoided if they spent more time on it. With the precedent of HoT and PoF, which built off each other in many ways, this expansion felt like a wide ocean and only a foot deep.

- Big maps with mostly appealing aesthetics, yet very ‘little’ to do in them. What is available is a few gold nuggets of dynamic quests tied to Factions lore, and the rest is very unoriginal filler. No adventures, bounties, races, collections, guild missions or activities that flesh out the maps at any point. No quests that expand the lore meaningfully on the Naga, the Wardens, the Void, the Brotherhood, the Speakers, malfunctioning Jade technology, Luxons and Kuricks, Old Kaineng and the Zhaitan disaster, and so much more. So many cool old and new story beats explained away by a generic dynamic quest or an interactive object. So much wasted potential to flesh out this lore rich part of the world.

- Featuring the new mount at the END of the expansion was such a bad call. This was an awesome opportunity for not only a story beat, but a cool mechanic where we could’ve received our hatchling siege turtle at the beginning. Watching it grow, training it, feed it, etc all while exploring and playing through the story. It would’ve been awesome to see a scenario in the story where we encounter a desperate situation only our now fully grown and decked out Siege turtle could handle, turning from a companion to our new fully upgraded combat mount.

- Introducing the amazing skiffs and fun fishing, only to provide so little content related to water. How was this opportunity missed? We are literally taking on the final Elder Dragon who is tied to water and all we do is plink around in the canals. Only Naga, Kapa, and a leviathan to deal with. No eldritch tentacled dragon minions, no realm of the water dragon and exploring it. Perhaps being on a skiff would be the only way to explore the area effectively as the Dragon minions could have been like a shark to blood in the water and an inanimate breathless boat would help us traverse safely without getting attacked constantly. Also revamped water combat or the beginnings of such and a mastery track tied to that and dealing with dragon minions or even underwater void if that’s really the way you wanted to go.

- Should not have catered every map to mounts and their one linear meta event. There is a place for wide open spots or vertically challenging areas where mounts are advantageous but if these maps were condensed, maybe each one have its areas ‘squished’ together, the sparse NPCs and the unrealistic sizes would feel more lived in and dense. What we have is wide paths, a theme park jungle and a lifeless city. Kaineng and Echovald are the worst offenders. Not only very little to do, but very little to see. I miss the every nook and cranny having that hand-crafted feel that PoF and HoT have. These EOD areas felt rushed and focused on the lane metas and mounts rather than exploration through dense forests and sprawling crowded cities.

- The story was rushed and should’ve been given room to breath and expand. The Canthans and their culture felt more like an exhibit, like what a Canthan district would feel like in Divinitys Reach, rather than the center of Canthan culture and beliefs. The homogenization of everything that made Cantha so mysterious and fun in Factions was a bad move and really made this area of Tyria the least interesting so far.

There is more I could nitpick like the mobs or rewards but those subjects have been discussed before many times. All in all my wife and I did have a lot of fun running through EoD the first time. But right after we got our turtle, we have found ourselves going back to the other expansions and their well crafted zones STILL working on the sheer amount of content, achievements, rewards and unlocks they have to this day. Whereas EoD feels like the adventure is already over…

Edited August 20, 2022 by IYield.1204

[Eekasqueak.7850]

More reason to stick around on the maps. Better designed metas and rewards etc

[EMPI.4013]

I also wanted New kaineng to be a new hub. Love how it looks like an actual city. They should have made the city center a hub or like the upper levels, and have the outskirts and lower levels where all the events occur.

 

I also wanted skiff combat. With cannons on them. With events in the water, with like enemy ships. Would also be nice if skiff had the option the turtle has where anyone can board it.

[cyberzombie.7348]

TL;DR: They should've made it more interactive and PRG-like and the Atherblades morally grey and not openly hostile.

 

They should've made the Atherblades have a more morally grey posture and presence. In the beginning it was a pretty strong start for the story to be fighting them off to try to rescue Gorrik. But in hindsight, it makes no sense for a mercenary group, with the business sense to get contracted by someone as high-profile as Joon, to not at least reason with  Gorrik and the PC (a well-known Pact commander and elder dragon slayer at this point) to come along without much hostilities.

Then after a relatively calm trip and their transaction with Joon is complete is when their grey starts to show by knocking out the Comm out of distrust when boarding all the money. And then let their true colours and intentions slowly emerge towards the end of the story. Escalating into a piracy battle with the Corsairs, Jade Brotherhood (if the relations are good enough), and local tengu against the Atherblades.

With an alternative ending of Mai Trin watching from a distance, lounging and drinking while seeing some form of revenge unfold. After everything is done, she disappears to be never seen or heard from again. Or become a blended in with the locals post-story.

 

 

Also make Cantha  feel more alive and interactive and more RPG-like by: 

1. Adding more diverse merchants. Why have dozens of noodle stands all over New Kaineng calling out for customers to try out their stand if I cant even buy some? Or the one in that claims to sell bread yet can only buy kits off of them? 
2. Give the player agency to improve or worsen relationships with other fractions like the Jade Brotherhood. It made sense for them to be neutral during the day and hostile at night because thugs in a city, but not as much for them to be 100% hostile in the Echovald.
3. Allow housing, it doesn't make much sense to resolve several world-ending crisis and yet to be able to buy my own property and personal storage like bookshelves or weapon chest/racks.
4. Make the non-livable houses interactive and be able to go into each one. Of course not just by barging in, there should be an etiquette check to be let in. If there's no one inside allow  alternative means of entry based on class, like in the Caduceus Mansion dungeon.

Edit: Also the Queen mentioned about "this would've been an act of war" but I've yet to see any standing military presence in Cantha. Adding more crafting disciplines would be a boon also.

Edited August 20, 2022 by cyberzombie.7348

[mungozen.2379]

Likely repeating some but….

new Runes and Sigils

meta events lining up against each other so you can finish one and move maps to the next meta event

more events and variety on each map between meta events

Adventures, Races and Bounties

A more populace and active New Kainang utilizing a lot more of the vertical space in the map. This map feels half finished

and lastly, I would have preferred they invested in balancing all the eSpecs before the launch of the game. Having multiple eSpecs being unplayable for weeks or months was a terrible experience and inexcusable. 

[Gorem.8104]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Make maps smaller, but more filled with content and, with higher player caps, so they do not seem so empty most of the time. Especially for New Kaineng.

Do not try to force modern aestethics on everything, to the degree where the Cantha identity is prety much lost.

Make meta events shorter, without the need of half-hour long preevents

Make meta events scale better for smaller player numbers.

Do not balance OW meta events around instanced content level player performance.

Put more repeatable stuff in there (and i mean something more interesting to do than just sitting in one lace for hours clicking 2-3 skills trying to get that one fish).

Make rewards more universal, and not so specifically tied to Aurene legendaries for the most part.

make jade bot system and upgrading account-wide instead of gear-based.

Don't require workbenches for option swapping.

 

Heavily personal opinion:

do a better story. This one was cringey on so many levels that small fixes and changes just would not be enough.

 

Minor nitpicks:

do not lock turtle collection behind strike completion.

make turtle more useful (and interesting to use) for owners, even when they are alone (at this point most of that is moved towards the gunner, not the driver).

 

Its been a bit, I had forgotten that at launch all of Cantha was a dead zone, first time I saw other players was the de meta. Whereas the start of the quest in the core game zone was packed with people. More people then the DE meta had, all due to them for some reason giving us huge empty zones with the lowest player caps in any area over the entire games life. Never understood that design choice, to make their empty maps with no npc's, feel emptier. The water expansion that hardly has us in the water at all where they could have had fun and re-designed water combat but instead released with broken unplayable e-specs. 

And everything else you stated, shows how forgetful the place is if you stop going there. Easily the most forgetful expansion. I remember not liking the story as well, but can't even remember the story anymore compared to every other living world or expansion story, I can even remember the personal story better then EoD's.... 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Labjax.2465]

After having played it some more recently to finish the fishing mastery, I've realized the 1st one I mentioned in my list is the most important and it's easily the biggest reason I dislike EoD maps. The bright jade look is an aesthetic nightmare, taking over everything and making artistic subtlety impossible. Areas that seem like I'm supposed to be awed by, I'm just cringing at because it's all the same overwhelming style of something something grimy, something something big object that is jade colored as the centerpiece.

This has never been a game where I have complaints about map visuals, quite the opposite, but EoD's style is just (to my eyes) ugly. It feels like the usual art quality of GW2 buried under jade and lighting choices made just to accommodate the jade, to such a degree I can't perceive the art quality anymore and I just perceive jade. Idk how the people of Cantha aren't losing their minds from being surrounded by bright green jade everywhere all the time.

Edit: Oh and if you don't like it, you can't just avoid Cantha, cause there's mechanist, which is very popular and useful, and is a big bright jade bot.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Lini.2698]

More waypoints. 

Seriously, a single starter map has about as many waypoints as all the maps combined for this expansion.

 

I know that they want us to use ziplines because it's the "new and trendy thing" they decided to invent, on top of going "Don't you people have mounts?", but honestly, NK in particular is such a needlessly vertical map with such unintuative ways to get around the city, you cannot convince me that people actually live there. But all of the maps suffer from a lack of being able to get right back into the fight again. This isn't WvW Anet, you can let us re-join the action without having to traverse half a map.

 

I also hate all the bright green jade. As much as I usually enjoy vivid greens for plant-filled environments and such, the jade tech and jade sea are just plain ugly.