Can we scale back wvw legendary armor requirements?

[Endilbiach.4132]

They're a little ridiculous.  Assuming perfect weeks every week it takes 22 weeks to get the set of legendary armor that looks the same as the precursor, 29 weeks to get the fully blinged out version.

Compare that to raid armor, and it takes 6 perfect weeks (less now actually) for the first set of legendary armor and 12 perfect weeks (again, less now) for the next sets.  That's 28 weeks of clearing every raid wing to get every suit of legendary armor, vs 22 to 29 weeks to get a SINGLE suit of wvw legendary armor.

And the Raid armor is supposed to look way cooler and be the 'be all and end all' of armor.  There are plenty of players who want legendary armor but can't do raids, can't drop thousands upon thousands of Mystic coins or whatever they're trading for that now for the credit for the raids, and look at the wvw requirements and realize that it's never happening.  Case in point, the last person I spoke to about this?  Their first suit of leggie armor was from wvw, it took them 18 months.

Literally all I'm asking for here is that we roll back how many skirmish tickets it takes, the current amounts are patently absurd.

[Endaris.1452]

Yeah, the WvW ones are quite hefty although what I find most annoying is how backloaded the tickets are, unless you actually get through all chests in a week, you barely accumulate any tickets at all.

Given that WvW hardly gives good rewards anyway and many of the cool ones require tickets (mistforged weapons etc.), raising the amount of tickets or at least flattening the curve would seem fair to me.

[Labjax.2465]

3 minutes ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Yeah, the WvW ones are quite hefty although what I find most annoying is how backloaded the tickets are, unless you actually get through all chests in a week, you barely accumulate any tickets at all.

Given that WvW hardly gives good rewards anyway and many of the cool ones require tickets (mistforged weapons etc.), raising the amount of tickets or at least flattening the curve would seem fair to me.

Agreed, that's the most off-putting part for me. And to compare to raids again, unless I'm mistaken about how the acquisition of LI works, you can spend less time getting it per week by clearing the raids more quickly. You can't do anything like that to speed up the gain in WvW. It's all the same exact amount of minimum time you must play WvW and max participation to cap your weekly ticket gain. Only difference being from commanding a squad (which very few can do) and having high rank (which takes a looong time to level up).

In other words, you don't get to feel like you have any control at all over the acquisition rate. It's pretty much "play WvW nonstop all week until you cap on tickets" (if you even have that much time to play the game per week and some don't). That's the one "efficient" path.

[Endilbiach.4132]

3 minutes ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Yeah, the WvW ones are quite hefty although what I find most annoying is how backloaded the tickets are, unless you actually get through all chests in a week, you barely accumulate any tickets at all.

Given that WvW hardly gives good rewards anyway and many of the cool ones require tickets (mistforged weapons etc.), raising the amount of tickets or at least flattening the curve would seem fair to me.

I wasn't even going to get into how backloaded it is, as that starts to get into what % completion do you get each week when compared to what % completion in raids you get each week.

The vast majority of people, even people who could otherwise craft leggie armor, aren't going to do perfect at either set of content.  I'm also not including pvp because a.) that's its own whole bag of cats, b.) the reward structure is complete gibberish, and c.) the day I do enough ranked spvp to be noticed much less enough to get me legendary armor will be the same day that I ride my flying pig to the unicorn bank to cash in on my worthwhile NFT investments.

But yeah, if you roll back wvw and raid completion an equal percent each week the difference grows exponentially.  Let's say you're working on raid armor, and you clear 1 wing a week, that's gonna be...84 weeks.  Which is a LOOOOT.  Let's say you do 1/7th of the 15 hours and 10 minutes of time it takes to clear full diamond in a week in wvw, so for happiness sake we'll say 2 hours 20 minutes (there's a reason I added 5 minutes to the easy 2.25 hours, it's because I was 1 pip shy at 7 pips every 5 minutes from another chest) that will net you 32 skirmish tickets a week.  That means 246.25 weeks of wvw at the same % completion as raids.  Higher % completion, point in fact, but I'm gonna let that slide.

[Endilbiach.4132]

6 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Agreed, that's the most off-putting part for me. And to compare to raids again, unless I'm mistaken about how the acquisition of LI works, you can spend less time getting it per week by clearing the raids more quickly. You can't do anything like that to speed up the gain in WvW. It's all the same exact amount of minimum time you must play WvW and max participation to cap your weekly ticket gain. Only difference being from commanding a squad (which very few can do) and having high rank (which takes a looong time to level up).

In other words, you don't get to feel like you have any control at all over the acquisition rate. It's pretty much "play WvW nonstop all week until you cap on tickets" (if you even have that much time to play the game per week and some don't). That's the one "efficient" path.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_reward_track

Yeah, there are things you have no real control over that can speed you up, such as your world's placement in that weeks matchup when you get your pips, plus your personal rank.  You get an additional pip if you command a squad of more than 5 people, another 2 for a total of +3 if your squad has more than 10 people, and another one if you completed the previous week's wood skirmish track.  Of these, the only one you have REAL control over is if you completed the previous week's wood skirmish track, as even your wvw rank is dependent on both time investment and - tangentially - the performance of your server.

[LSD.4673]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Then go get the raid one, starting with your "perfect week" right away and then come back with a little more realistic outlook  on the situation.

You know, just easly smash it out in 6 weeks, what's the problem?

In 6 weeks i've got from PvE 2 sets of ascended, 2 pieces of legendary armour, and almost enough for a third.

In many years of on-and-off playing WvW, i have almost a full set of ascended and one legendary armour. 

 

WvW costs marks AND memories AND tickets just for the ascended. You get 1/10th of a mark from bronze each week and i think another 1/10 from silver. You need 3 marks per piece.

 

Meanwhile in PvE, you literally just do a simple collection, burn a few easily obtained HoT mats, and boom, you have yourself two full sets of ascended. If you want more, it basically just costs LI.

Just one full set of ascended in WvW is 300g worth of memories, 150g of marks, and hundreds of hours of WvW collecting tickets. All you have to do in PvE is clear the wing and do a bit of HoT maps for the easily obtained map currency.

 

PvE's armour is not just infinitely easier to obtain, but far, far cheaper.

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 minute ago, LSD.4673 said:

In 6 weeks i've got from PvE 2 sets of ascended, 2 pieces of legendary armour, and almost enough for a third.

In many years of on-and-off playing WvW, i have almost a full set of ascended and one legendary armour. 

 

WvW costs marks AND memories AND tickets just for the ascended. You get 1/10th of a mark from bronze each week and i think another 1/10 from silver. You need 3 marks per piece.

 

Meanwhile in PvE, you literally just do a simple collection, burn a few easily obtained HoT mats, and boom, you have yourself two full sets of ascended. If you want more, it basically just costs LI.

Just one full set of ascended in WvW is 300g worth of memories, 150g of marks, and hundreds of hours of WvW collecting tickets. All you have to do in PvE is clear the wing and do a bit of HoT maps for the easily obtained map currency.

 

PvE's armour is not just infinitely easier to obtain, but far, far cheaper.

This is starting to feel like it falls into the category of "Anet hates wvw".

[SinisterSeven.2781]

Guess that I'm sorry to hear your friend took 18 months. but, i don't think that's what the average player comes out of

Every wvw with.  a guy can't just afk in wvw, and wvw is not a solo game.

To be fair, i don't quite buy this claim as a good basis for recommending a change.  i would say that is a user specific

Game problem, not a social one.

Of course, from what you've written you seem to consider 6 weeks of raids a simple task - which would prompt me to

Openly ask you, if it's so easy, then i assume you've already got the raid armor? why make a post if you've got it?

Differing from the main discussion, I unfortunately don't assign a lot of value to this suggestion because it devalues the struggle that others have faced for the same prize. I don't think that's fair.

 

 

[Endilbiach.4132]

3 minutes ago, SinisterSeven.2781 said:

Guess that I'm sorry to hear your friend took 18 months. but, i don't think that's what the average player comes out of

Every wvw with.  a guy can't just afk in wvw, and wvw is not a solo game.

To be fair, i don't quite buy this claim as a good basis for recommending a change.  i would say that is a user specific

Game problem, not a social one.

Of course, from what you've written you seem to consider 6 weeks of raids a simple task - which would prompt me to

Openly ask you, if it's so easy, then i assume you've already got the raid armor? why make a post if you've got it?

Differing from the main discussion, I unfortunately don't assign a lot of value to this suggestion because it devalues the struggle that others have faced for the same prize. I don't think that's fair.

 

 

It's not the same prize.  I would kill for the raid skins.  I would not, however, subject myself to raids for the same skins.

Furthermore, if I could get the wvw armor in the same 12 weeks as I could get a set of raid armor (I'm ignoring the 6 weeks one because that's only due to a free full set of ascended precursors from an achievement that you HAVE to do anyway) this would be a reasonable argument.  You can't.  There is no way to accelerate wvw armor gain past a certain rate, and that requirement is still an unholy amount of time each week.

Also, let's be perfectly blunt, plenty of people who have legendary armor didn't earn it, they bought it.  They paid other raiders for boss completions each week to get themselves some leggie armor.  You know what you can't do in wvw?  That.

[SinisterSeven.2781]

8 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

It's not the same prize.  I would kill for the raid skins.  I would not, however, subject myself to raids for the same skins.

Furthermore, if I could get the wvw armor in the same 12 weeks as I could get a set of raid armor (I'm ignoring the 6 weeks one because that's only due to a free full set of ascended precursors from an achievement that you HAVE to do anyway) this would be a reasonable argument.  You can't.  There is no way to accelerate wvw armor gain past a certain rate, and that requirement is still an unholy amount of time each week.

Also, let's be perfectly blunt, plenty of people who have legendary armor didn't earn it, they bought it.  They paid other raiders for boss completions each week to get themselves some leggie armor.  You know what you can't do in wvw?  That.

 

valid points all things considered.

 

but au contraire monsieur. You can "negotiate" a spot with a regular wvw raiding commander a weekly or monthly trade to obtain 'participation' in the wvw map of choice. they give you participation when they go into wvw as long as you're in wvw and active, and you give them your love and affection.

 

And so, both are possible. maybe this knowledge helps.

Edited September 3, 2022 by SinisterSeven.2781

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Furthermore, if I could get the wvw armor in the same 12 weeks as I could get a set of raid armor (I'm ignoring the 6 weeks one because that's only due to a free full set of ascended precursors from an achievement that you HAVE to do anyway) this would be a reasonable argument.  You can't.  There is no way to accelerate wvw armor gain past a certain rate, and that requirement is still an unholy amount of time each week.

And you probably understand why since in the last thread you wrote:

On 7/31/2021 at 12:56 AM, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Setting that aside, who cares about hard?  If it's about the effort put in then substitute time for challenge, and call it a day. 

 

Yes, pretty sure that is exactly what it is: substituting challenge for time. How come you somehow doesn't understand it now?

Edited September 3, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Endaris.1452]

9 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Also, let's be perfectly blunt, plenty of people who have legendary armor didn't earn it, they bought it.  They paid other raiders for boss completions each week to get themselves some leggie armor.  You know what you can't do in wvw?  That.

I'm pretty sure buying participation in WvW is a lot cheaper than buying weekly clears.

[Endilbiach.4132]

2 minutes ago, SinisterSeven.2781 said:

 

valid points all things considered.

 

but au contraire monsieur. You can "negotiate" a spot with a regular wvw raiding commander a weekly or monthly sum to obtain 'participation' in the wvw map of choice. they give you participation when they go into wvw as long as you're in wvw and active, and you give them your love and affection.

 

And so, both are possible. maybe this knowledge helps.

That's if I want to literally not play the game.  That's also if your server has such a commander, and if such a commander is on during the hours you can pull this trick.  Know what's not a problem?  Buying raid wing completion.  Log on at roughly any o'clock, check LFG, pick a group of your choice.

No, the Raid armor is much easier to get, much cheaper to make, gets you all kinds of other achievements and unique skins as you work to complete it, and is generally more rewarding.  WvW armor exists as the carrot on the other end of the stick that's used to beat people into the ground for not wanting to raid, and costs significantly more.

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 minute ago, Endaris.1452 said:

I'm pretty sure buying participation in WvW is a lot cheaper than buying weekly clears.

If any commanders even offer that on my server, that's news to me.  And probably aren't available when I am.  And it would still be 22 weeks compared to 12 weeks.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

No, the Raid armor is much easier to get, much cheaper to make, gets you all kinds of other achievements and unique skins as you work to complete it, and is generally more rewarding. 

If you belive what you're saying here then put your money where your mouth is and go get it. It's faster, it's much easier, cheaper, gets you bonus perks. So why aren't you doing it? 🤔

[SinisterSeven.2781]

Just now, Endilbiach.4132 said:

That's if I want to literally not play the game.  That's also if your server has such a commander, and if such a commander is on during the hours you can pull this trick.  Know what's not a problem?  Buying raid wing completion.  Log on at roughly any o'clock, check LFG, pick a group of your choice.

No, the Raid armor is much easier to get, much cheaper to make, gets you all kinds of other achievements and unique skins as you work to complete it, and is generally more rewarding.  WvW armor exists as the carrot on the other end of the stick that's used to beat people into the ground for not wanting to raid, and costs significantly more.

hmm understandable that you won't be shifting your stance, which is unfortunate.

of course, i dont say the following to change your mind or insult what you've said, but my experience is completely different from yours, and just wanted to convey that, to others who will also read this thread.

 

much like how you have to involve yourself in the raid community to find raid commanders, you have to involve yourself in the wvw community to find wvw commanders.

 

and there are commanders at all hours, you can pick and choose, but you have to venture forth. remember your paired server is also an option, whether you're the primary or the secondary, you have a lot of people to select from.

 

i would actually judge them fairly evenly pricewise, and you can always find a commander who feels less secure in their leadership, which may result in a discount. and various commanders in different timezones can offer support at given hours.

 

anyhow, with that said, i'll be excusing myself. have a good rest of your friday night, all.

[Firebeard.1746]

1 hour ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Yeah, the WvW ones are quite hefty although what I find most annoying is how backloaded the tickets are, unless you actually get through all chests in a week, you barely accumulate any tickets at all.

Given that WvW hardly gives good rewards anyway and many of the cool ones require tickets (mistforged weapons etc.), raising the amount of tickets or at least flattening the curve would seem fair to me.

Amen. 

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

Refer to the countless threads asking for this to happen. They reduced the amount of time in hours to hit skirmish ticket weekly cap last year (2021). It was through providing everyone with one extra pip and additional for WvW rank, while removing outnumbered pips.

I doubt they will be doing anything else to increase skirmish ticket gain. The only thing I could see possibly happening is reducing hours required to hit the cap per week, which is not amazingly high at ~12 hours if you re gold rank+ , keeping in mind you don't need to hit the cap if you are willing to expend extra weeks.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Endaris.1452]

23 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

if you re gold rank+

That's already such a massive assumption.

How many hours do you take for gold rank? Even with boosters this ought to be a playtime in WvW that is sufficient to earn enough tickets for a full set of legendary armor of one armor class, if not two.

I think just making the ticket gains more linear would already do a lot to make WvW rewards more of a goal to work towards (and I'm not talking specifically about legy armor to be fair).

Currently it looks like this:

Wood, 100 Pips, 17 tickets
Bronze, 120 Pips, 25 tickets, 122% tickets per pip compared to wood
Silver, 175 Pips, 40 Tickets, 134% tickets per pip compared to wood
Gold, 200 Pips, 50 Tickets, 147% tickets per pip compared to wood
Platinum, 225 Pips, 60 Tickets, 156% tickets per pip compared to wood
Mithril, 300 Pips, 83 Tickets, 162% tickets per pip compared to wood
Diamond, 330 Pips, 90 Tickets, 160% tickets per pip compared to wood

How the spread should look to make smaller time investments into WvW worthwhile:

Wood, 100 Pips, 25 tickets
Bronze, 120 Pips, 30 tickets
Silver, 175 Pips, 44 Tickets
Gold, 200 Pips, 50 Tickets
Platinum, 225 Pips, 57 Tickets
Mithril, 300 Pips, 75 Tickets
Diamond, 330 Pips, 83 Tickets

That is a constant ~0.252 tickets per pip throughout, making players that get bronze weekly with a time investment of 2-2.5h get a whopping 13 tickets more (assuming bronze rank and extra pip from wood in previous week). No adverse effects to players that are playing more either.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Endaris.1452

[PinkTacoLover.7603]

> 22 weeks

i think im around week 60 😂

[SamuelW.2685]

Honestly I'd be down for decreasing the requirements, I've seen the amount of things you need for a full set and it's crazy, 22 weeks is almost half a years time, and that's assuming you're playing optimally. Optimally meaning you no life WvW, and good luck with that if you have a job or literally can't cause there's not enough activity.

This would also have the added benifit of drawing more people into WvW, I know I'd be more inclined to play more WvW if the legendary armour wasn't so insane, I don't like PvP and I probably won't do raids ever, I've never been a raider in MMO's, always had  bad experience trying them thanks to people being nasty as hell. 

And honestly, who'd complain if the minimum time went down to say, 6, 7, 8 weeks? People who already have the legendary armour and just wanna gatekeep?

[Endilbiach.4132]

28 minutes ago, SamuelW.2685 said:

Honestly I'd be down for decreasing the requirements, I've seen the amount of things you need for a full set and it's crazy, 22 weeks is almost half a years time, and that's assuming you're playing optimally. Optimally meaning you no life WvW, and good luck with that if you have a job or literally can't cause there's not enough activity.

This would also have the added benifit of drawing more people into WvW, I know I'd be more inclined to play more WvW if the legendary armour wasn't so insane, I don't like PvP and I probably won't do raids ever, I've never been a raider in MMO's, always had  bad experience trying them thanks to people being nasty as hell. 

And honestly, who'd complain if the minimum time went down to say, 6, 7, 8 weeks? People who already have the legendary armour and just wanna gatekeep?

I'm sitting here thinking that Raid armor is in a good place.  12 weeks for a full set, 2 weeks a piece roughly, is a good time frame for a full suit of legendary armor.

And yes, mostly gatekeepers and forum trolls is the answer to your last question.

[Cuks.8241]

Its an armour set thats meant for dedicated WvW players. I never saw anything in WvW as a grind because I enjoyed it, played with my guildies, never even looked at skirmish tickets. At some point I just checked my wallet and oh, I can actually make a legendary set (and I didnt even finish it yet because I dont feel like taking the time throwing stuff in the forge while I have plenty of tickets and spvp shards). I know many players that have thousands of tickets and nothing to spend on.

On the other hand I cant imagine solo grinding for a wvw set. Complete masochism. 

So in that regard I think its fine. Is the acquisition method good? Not really but I see why they made it like it is - don't want to promote specific lucrative play patterns in a sandbox mode. I would prefer if the reward was more win related. But yeah in a sandbox game where people play in many different ways that wouldnt be a good idea. Does it take a lot of time? Relative. For someone that plays the mode and enjoys it, it doesnt feel long.

Anyway, play the mode you enjoy and the armour will come without stress. 

[Krzysztof.5973]

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you belive what you're saying here then put your money where your mouth is and go get it. It's faster, it's much easier, cheaper, gets you bonus perks. So why aren't you doing it? 🤔

We don't do that here 😌

[yoni.7015]

I made two WvW legendary armor sets. I didn’t have the feeling that it is a grind or that it took too long. I basically just got it while playing the game mode I like the most. I think the requirements are fine. If you want to have your legendary armor fast then play raids. 
The WvW armor is primarily meant for WvW players and not for PvE players that refuse to raid. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by yoni.7015