Is there too much CC in game?

[Svarty.8019]

Perhaps the problem is the enormous amount of corrupt/boon removal that's causing a massive lack of stability?

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

It would probably help for people to note what class they're playing when they comment on this. I get what @Sahne.6950 is saying about being fine with overloads for stunbreaks but bringing 2-3 stunbreaks is often a lot more than most people run because of build constraints. I main thief so I'm usually running three stunbreaks minimum but that's what my class is designed for, your mileage may vary.  

[Arheundel.6451]

Main problem is not the amount of CC....it's how stupid the CC design is in GW2 because it can be fired back to back for maximum return , you can literally CC a target to death by simply firing off all your CC skills. In GW1 there was minimal return on stacked CC...you can't possibly knockdown something which has already been knockdowned, how that makes any kittening sense?...and CMC knows it as he played GW1 himself so.....

[hugeboss.5432]

I personally feel that combat should be more focused on being actively engaged in it, by means of actual damage, dodges, swings, hits, misses, healing, builds, gear and of course commander skill to name a few things. Instead of being tied down "passively engaged in combat" by spamming either cc or stability to counter the incoming cc spam (or die).

The cc evolution cycle is something like this:
1 - If cc isn't powerful enough, almost nobody produces meta builds with cc and "everyone focuses on other stuff to complain about".
2 - The devs feel the need to bump cc up & make it a thing, which makes cc a great option to include in new builds.
3 - Lots of toons roll out the new meta builds, suddenly we end up experiencing cc being way too oppressive in large scale combat (again).
[The cycle repeats...]

Being stunned/dazed for half a second doesnt really do that much in small scale pvp combat, so the pvp dev team prolly thinks its fine.
However, being AoE stunned/dazed in large scale 60vs60vs60 combat often means instant death, as it's often coupled with zergs pushing, and 60-120 players smacking away at you if stunned = usually instant unavoidable death. There's nothing u can do about it, even if you do get stability to break the stun, you still have all those angry players smacking away at you to deal with. Stability should thus be much more plentiful, as it doesn't avoid the actual combat content at all. We want more of the active engaging combat and less of the non-challenging striking down stunned players type of "combat".

In actual game terms, I would like to see a self only reaction buff that granted immunity to additional stuns for another 6 seconds after first being stunned (a hard cap on how often a player can get stunned, but possibly also increase base stun duration to keep it viable). This could help put firebrands more into the "oh, i can actually play wvw again" mode. Monitoring stuns and using stunbreakers could thus be more rewarding in those smallscale fights, and we still have use for normal stability to help cross lines, cancel pulls, grav-wells, and of course landing those pesky leap attacks etc.

New players can't slowly ease themselves into large scale combat by experiencing it up close, as they all end up being the next slaughtered & looted newbie almost every single time, while trying to figure out what's actually going wrong. They didn't know they needed a firebrand in their party or die instantly. That's more or less how large scale combat works now, if they want to experience it up close & successfully.

In short, more focus on players combat skill, and less focus on AoE cc-spam that can result in almost instant deaths without much active combat content.
 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

On 10/15/2022 at 6:05 PM, Svarty.8019 said:

Perhaps the problem is the enormous amount of corrupt/boon removal that's causing a massive lack of stability?

This. We have a lot of CC but also a lot of stability being pumped out by FB and Jalis revs. The key thing that tends to cause pinballing is that the 6 stacks of stab you had got ripped or corrupted, which is far more effective than trying to CC through all the possible stacks.

[Svarty.8019]

On 10/17/2022 at 5:24 AM, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

This. We have a lot of CC but also a lot of stability being pumped out by FB and Jalis revs. The key thing that tends to cause pinballing is that the 6 stacks of stab you had got ripped or corrupted, which is far more effective than trying to CC through all the possible stacks.

Would the solution be to reduce both in WvW Only?

Let's not forget this gem...

"we tried to push breakbars a lot more with this expansion"
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1171101382

 

For "Breakbars" read "Crowd Control"

It's this kind of mindless, reckless PvE design that spills over into WvW.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Say they got toned down the amount of cc they would have to tone down the amount of stab, if they turn stab into a buff so it can’t be stripped/corrupted it would probably have to get rid of the pulsing stab and would have to implement diminishing returns on cc on the same target like a lot other pvp games have implemented. Do I think any changes like that will happen? Not really. do I think they should give it a try? Yes, since it can’t be anymore of a cluster than it already is/has been, or if we want to get real spicy let’s not change any of the current things and just implement full friendly fire in wvw/pvp game modes. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by BlaqueFyre.5678

[pcgamefreak.5208]

Is there too much CC in game?

 

Rofl!!!!!!!!!!!  You gotta be kidding me!?  GW2's PvP is nothing BUT 'CC!'  In fact, I just logged out because I got bored.  There was no combat to be had because you were always stunned, dazed, pulled, launched, rooted, etc etc just utter "gawd" awful game design!  The last draw is when like seven Bots did their knock down on me in a row, so I ended up watching my character constantly get flopped across the ground while taking heavy RANGED damage from a whole Zerg.  That's another problem...  TOO MUCH DAMAGE FROM RANGE!!

 

I've said it a million times now....  Guildwars 2 is the worst PvP game ever made.  You gotta look on the bright side though....  Because the developers are so uncreative and bad for GW2, it leaves the door wide open for any new companies starting off.  It only takes one MMORPG done right and all other titles made before it, will have to shut down.  Current gaming companies could never pull it off because they all suck.

 

The only thing you can do with a broken PvP game like GW2 is install quick fixes but the "Devs" won't even do that or don't know how, which would not surprise me at all.  That's why players are cheating the game....  They're using decryption based hack tools to go undetected.  I saw a hacker online showing off the tool they made and mentioned they were selling it.  I never bothered to look them up because I'm not a cheater but it's no surprise other players have bought these cheat setups because just look at the chaos the developers came up with and they think they did something good.

 

Why would you allow high DPS on range?  It's a no "brainer"; players are going to die before they even get close.  It never crossed their minds of what would happen if all those Boons from each player get together as one...  That's why Zerg Blobs are out of control.  There's no fighting it anymore....  Every time I go down, it's because I get pulled, stunned, rooted, etc and then ganged by multiple players.  You never have a chance to fight back because they all are hitting you with a 'CC' and Necros have no stability at all.  With all the 'CC' in game, you'll need like 30 seconds of stability just to put up a decent fight while outnumbered.

 

What I'm so tired of seeing, is players who walk around inside enemy Zergs taking zero damage and players act like they're not seeing the cheat right in front of their eyes.  I mean a player's whole zerg can be dead and they're the only one left alive inside an enemy zerg, who are all blasting away on them but yet they're just moving around taking zero damage the whole time.

 

Maybe I should go ahead and look that hacker up and buy the setup.  No point in watching other players go into God mode and have all the fun.  I seen a player today who had three health bars...  THREE!!!!!!!!!!  That is hacker freedom right there and they'll never get caught while using VPN and Decryption based cheat setups.

 

I'm not leaving out the "ArenaNet Babies" or "AnetBabies" either.  I know they're doing their dirt too in WvW, which kinds of justifies the hackers.

 

Tip 'tho' hackers....  Stop camping out alone like you do because the moment I see you camping out in enemy territory, wide open....not even hiding, standing like death itself....  It's a dead giveaway you're backed by hack-tool-power.  I've encountered enough of you to know but other players who don't know are going to fall right into your trap...but that's what you want I guess.

 

I have one request too hackers....  It has been a long time since I seen a single thief take out a whole Zerg.  Please, one of you hackers get on your thief and solo an entire Zerg again.  Just PM me if I'm on and give me the time and place in WvW.  It's a thing of beauty seeing you go invisible forever, pop out of nowhere, drop a 50+k AOE dagger toss and vanish again....re-appear and stab through a player's spine for the single hit kill and vanish again.  It's like watching poetry in motion, just pure eye candy.   :)  Wish I could  remember the character name of the first hacker I seen do it, I would bend the knee in game because that was amazing work on a Zerg.  Glad I was on the cliff watching it go down instead of being with the Zerg that got killed by the single thief.  I was suppse to be down there but something told me to just stay on the cliff a little longer because I saw strange behavior by that thief and wasn't sure.  Sometimes it pays to listen to that inner voice.

 

Are any of you hackers getting the real life money?  I came across one hacker who uses their cheat setup to God Mode certain PvE game modes/bosses and sell certain drops for gold and then sell the gold online.  Forget what it was in a day...I think he/she said 75 dollars a day...  Not sure but still, that's pretty good pay for just playing a game.

 

I'm not even mad at the hackers anymore becasue it's the developers fault all that is going on with GW2.  If you can't 'beat'um', join them and no, you can't beat the hackers.

[AlCapwnd.7834]

On 10/10/2022 at 8:39 PM, Svarty.8019 said:

I'm curious about your opinions.

My own experience is that with PoF, we've seen an exponential increase in the casual use of CC, and it's making the game considerably less fun. The lack of options when one is lying on the floor is very noticeable. 

My answer is yes. Not only from a roamer but also in zergs. The cleanses now just cany keep up with stuns and imobes. Just my 2 cents. Im not hear to fight and argue

[Aeolus.3615]

On 11/2/2022 at 5:46 PM, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Say they got toned down the amount of cc they would have to tone down the amount of stab, if they turn stab into a buff so it can’t be stripped/corrupted it would probably have to get rid of the pulsing stab and would have to implement diminishing returns on cc on the same target like a lot other pvp games have implemented. Do I think any changes like that will happen? Not really. do I think they should give it a try? Yes, since it can’t be anymore of a cluster than it already is/has been, or if we want to get real spicy let’s not change any of the current things and just implement full friendly fire in wvw/pvp game modes. 

 

That's making stability work similiar to how it worked in gw1, but with a ammo effet in it 1 cc takes 1 stack of stab that cant be removed.

I find that very interesting and Anet could reduce the ammount of it as well since there would be needed alot more CC skills to balance it out with the current stability spam, or at least make srong stability on longer CD while small duratin stability on medium CD skills, that could avoid spend more time checking the CC side by manipulating stability durations since would have a static value rather being afected by bon duration.

- Quickness is another effect that needs to be removed from boon category.

- Also boon rip targeting certain boons would be a good update as well .

- Some Necro well should remove boon duration as well by X%

BTW have u guys notice IF Anet get's  skills and their effects  closer to gw1 skill concept the more balanced the game becomes and far far easy it becomes to tune up and down and overall balance the games?

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Jski.6180]

I think anet needs to "un nerf" self stab effects and only buff support stab though traits (maybe nerfing support stab with out traits).

At the end of the day if your getting hit by 5 ppl at the same time in an wvw environment you should be locked up or die as its 5 vs 1 in that moment.

[Riba.3271]

Honestly, there is too much of everything in the game these days.

 

CC abilities should have longer cooldown, boons (especially stability) from minstrel players should have at least 20% less duration (boon duration nerf when?), boonrips should have slightly longer cooldown. Superspeed, and speed runes, should also have less effectiveness. 25 might should be momentary thing gained from 5 party members coordinating stacking it for the bomb, not near permanent.

 

Like coordinating in this game is dead since even if you drop all wells at a same time, good players will just have saved cooldowns to get out of it. Then after that it is just rotating short cooldown skill after short cooldown skill, never ending spamfiesta.

[Xenesis.6389]

On 10/15/2022 at 6:05 PM, Svarty.8019 said:

Perhaps the problem is the enormous amount of corrupt/boon removal that's causing a massive lack of stability?

CC's also directly removes stability stacks unless aegis blocks it, boon strips has 11 other potential targets that can cover stability, so is it too much boon removal(groups still have 10-12 boons up all the time) or too much cc that's doing it.

I still see plenty of groups spammed with 12 boons and running straight through all the doodoo on the ground with no problem.

Just a matter of what's being spammed the greatest in a given situation by any group, stability/aegis, boon strip, or cc.

I do think there's too much personal/single target cc's in the game. At this point might as well make every utility skill a stun break, this is a game of spam anyways.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[pcgamefreak.5208]

You know a PvP mode in an mmorpg is bad when you engage an encounter with a group and you end up bouncing around on the ground while being hit for high damage the whole time.  Of course, I was a Core Necro, which has no stability but even if you had some, it'll most likely get removed or not work because yes, I've been pulled on Scourge while under the effect of stability.

 

WvW is a mess and instead of the "Devs" admitting that, their just trying to make the mess look like design.  Again, had to log out because it wasn't pvp it was player vs 'cc' and player bounce on ground.  It's bad enough Core Condi Necro has been reduced to Zerg support and can't roam but toss in no real meaning boons that last worth anything and conditions that don't do anything but tickle other classes, that's nothing to like about it and the only thing that ties you to the mode is the legendaries.  You shouldn't have to jump on a Willbender to take out another player or escape from a Zerg, that's garbage.

 

Worst PvP game ever made but hey, at least Arena Net isn't competition for other development companies.  Just need one to do it right for once so all other mmos can finally die out.

[Cyninja.2954]

7 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

snip

TL;DR:

admits to not bringing any anti cc skills. Immediately assume that having skills which counter cc would not have helped. Concludes it's the games fault for him not being able to counter cc.

Most players complaints in a nutshell: I didn't do the thing which I was asking for thus the game must be broken because the thing I wanted to happen, which I did not prepare for, did  not happen.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

Yes, there is too much CC, but only because of what they did with stability. CC was fine before the new stack system was put in. 

They never seem to use foresight to look at issues, really shows immaturity on the company's part.

It all ties back to the boon problem. Either give everyone access to the stab and other boons or nerf them back to basically temporary buffs which is what they were supposed to be. Stab stacking and might were always a thing, but this whole new, we can stack everything and never die, is just ridiculous. 

As I have said before......Too much big boon make to hard to die, no fun.

[blp.3489]

I was just looking at the wiki page for stability and set the filters for thieves and outside of specter it only shows two sources of stability, blinding powder which provides 1 second of stability with a 40s cooldown, and a stolen skill that can only be stolen from mesmers.  Is that really the limit on self generated stability for thieves?

[wowMuchGuildWars.6125]

Im going to get a_lot of flack for this but I see so much Dunning-Kruger in this thread from roamers and zerg players that think they should be able 1v5+, don't know how to position/move/dodge correctly, who run wacky builds (which don't make use of the tools that solve the problems they are complaining about) or down know the strengths and weaknesses of their classes and so don't play accordingly.
Yes maybe there is a_lot of CC in the game, but there is also a_lot of counterplay in the form of build elements (skills, traits, runes, sigils, etc), movement and fight strategies, also playing a class that is fit for purpose makes a difference instead of stubbornly playing condi core necro because you "bought the game" and your class and build should be godlike in every content.
I used to have many of the issues that people complain about in here and they have gotten less and less over time just buy learning how to play the game better (I'm not even that sweaty of a gamer), but sadly most would rather blame other factors instead of having even a small look at their own shortcomings

[Leaa.2943]

They need ro reworkd imobalize. It is the most annoying and kitten cc in the whole game and some classes are just shitting it out and it is the last thing that get cleansed. So you need to go through a big pile of cleanses until you get it off you, and then you obfiously already got more on you and more and more and there is not enough cleanses. 

Now i talk smallscale, not everything in WvW is about big blobs where you never really suffer from anythying at all because both sides have insant counters with to much stab, to much cleanses and to much cc. Blob are more of status quo because of the overflow of all you can use in a blobfight.. 

Only problem in blob fights is that if you get pushed by two blobs constantly then you are one blob against two and that can be rough to keep up. And in EU guilds on "fighting" servers for some reason are scared to push alone or let the tow other groups fight and wait for their turn. It is a consatant 2-3-4-5 groups pushing one group of 25. That is hard to counter and the 25 group will eventually run out of most things. whilst the others wont. That one is a player problem and not a game problem. 

[Coldtart.4785]

There is certainly a lot of cc but without a full balance rework that would make the feb 2020 patch look like a hotfix reducing the amount would just make it so that anyone with even a tiny bit of sustain investment never dies.

[JTGuevara.9018]

There is too much SOFT CC, which in my opinion needs to be deleted(yes even from warriors). It's stupid that any class can set up a hard cc only to have it interrupted by a soft cc that randomly pops up without warning. That is bad design. It's essentially an f-you to the player.

Edited March 31, 2023 by JTGuevara.9018
add

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

There is too much SOFT CC, which in my opinion needs to be deleted(yes even from warriors). It's stupid that any class can set up a hard cc only to have it interrupted by a soft cc that randomly pops up without warning. That is bad design. It's essentially an f-you to the player.

Hard and soft cc doesn't interfere in any way. Soft cc = movement impairing condition, is countered by cleanse and resistance. Hard cc = anything that prevents skill use, countered by stun break and stability. Hard cc does not stack and yes, weak cc can override a stronger ones - which is a good thing, because it punishes mindless cc spam.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Sparetent.9756]

On 10/10/2022 at 8:39 PM, Svarty.8019 said:

I'm curious about your opinions.

My own experience is that with PoF, we've seen an exponential increase in the casual use of CC, and it's making the game considerably less fun. The lack of options when one is lying on the floor is very noticeable. 

 I absolutely think there is WAAAY too much CC in the game! Stability is absolutely useless.

[JTGuevara.9018]

5 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Hard and soft cc doesn't interfere in any way. Soft cc = movement impairing condition, is countered by cleanse and resistance. Hard cc = anything that prevents skill use, countered by stun break and stability. Hard cc does not stack and yes, weak cc can override a stronger ones - which is a good thing, because it punishes mindless cc spam.

Ok then, so soft CC spam instead? Because again...you don't see it coming. At least with hard CCs you can see them. People cannot seriously tell me with a straight face that a random proccing blind or daze is good this game. gw2 is shoddily designed from the get-go.

 

5 hours ago, Sparetent.9756 said:

 I absolutely think there is WAAAY too much CC in the game! Stability is absolutely useless.

Not to mention it can be easily stripped.

[DeWolfe.2174]

There's WAY too much CC in WvW. Especially Druid's perma immob which needs to be removed entirely. There's no justification for such a kittenous build.