Miniatures in WvW

[QuantumCat.9863]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:56 PM, jballstars.8219 said:

Awww look at Mr Edgy with his passive aggressive dig,  let the haters hate.  No one here complains about dying we have fun or die trying and give two poops what you think about us.   We WvW daily and don’t run from fights like so called fight guilds.   

I didn't get the impression this was passive agressive.  They make a good point - newbs might not understand that they're telegraphing their location, and gain immediate bad impressions of the game mode based on getting stomped on the regular until they either figure it out or someone clues them in.

[QuantumCat.9863]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:25 PM, Zhaeli.5416 said:

Agree!  Auto-disable minis in WvW maps.  Will help with lag issues, too.

Excellent point - the minion-mancers already generate enough as is.  😃

[QuantumCat.9863]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:30 PM, Poisonfrog.9812 said:

 I think it's unfair to put the onus of mini management on the squad leader. There are always pugs who follow tags around even when the squad is open (for various reasons) and you can ask them nicely sure, but as a squad you basically get punished if the person ignores the ask. And the commander shouldn't have to lock their entire squad just to keep a person with a mini out if they want to keep it open in general for people on map. I have also been in too many skirmishes where the player with the mini was deliberately trolling (whether because of spying or for kicks or who knows why), though that was more in T2 and T1 matchups and less in T3. Considering I've only gotten into wvw in the past 6 months, I think it's clearly a problem if even I have noticed it.

Agree.  Someone kicked for something they consider their "right" (because the earned or bought that mini, and they should be allowed to use it however they want) is more likely to flip into troll mode, IMHO.

[QuantumCat.9863]

15 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

How bout something like: if you're in your keep / a safe zone, it can be out, but otherwise it's automatically hidden. That way people who mainly play WvW can still get something out of having minis, but without it messing up competitive nature of the game mode.

I like this, actually.  It wouldn't be as effective at reducing the lag/processing overhead, since there's still an extra entity to track in those areas, but it could work.  

[Sinmir.6504]

To be fair, I'd say if you choose not to hide a mini in WvW on your head be it. Maybe somebody wants to run with one, they have the choice to turn it off and don't.

Some players do stuff that allerts enemies. One time we defended a tower. We won. I was left inside repairing a wall, I didn't notice them back untill the chat box said, "Enemy player cheers." They might have got the tower that time if the enemy hadn't emoted. In that case, what they did was worse for their side than running with a mini would have been.

Were people who are complaining about minis there before equipment templates were a thing? Back when you needed to change your equipment manually when going between PVE and WvW if you had a diierent set for each? Ok, we have equipment templates, we automatically equip our WvW gear in WvW... But theres still that one click to get rid of minis... that click... it's unbearable.

20 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

How bout something like: if you're in your keep / a safe zone, it can be out, but otherwise it's automatically hidden. That way people who mainly play WvW can still get something out of having minis, but without it messing up competitive nature of the game mode.

Problem would be if you are using stealth while defending or attacking  the keep the mini would give the game away. Sometimes when I am alone and know I can't beat the enemy group I'll hide in a tower, if they move on without seeing me I take it back. A mini would make me more likely to be noticed.

 

[RisenHowl.2419]

Minis should wait in spawn like pvp at the very least

 

ViP isn't losing fights due to minis though lol

[jballstars.8219]

7 hours ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

Minis should wait in spawn like pvp at the very least

 

ViP isn't losing fights due to minis though lol

We win some and lose some, but we have fun or die trying.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

12 hours ago, Sinmir.6504 said:

A mini would make me more likely to be noticed.

This is true, which is why I think we can all agree on an implementation that hides minis on every class except thief which instead has it forced to always active.

[Sugar Min.5834]

I agree, The presence of a single mini will get a 50 strong squad wiped. No minis please.

[SweetPotato.7456]

No.  sometime people do use miniature for fun in WvW, it is not just YOU YOU YOU. there are people doing other stuffs. like a Quaggan walk about at the last day of link and the start of a relink and i want to have my quaggan mini when i am in quaggan form

[Nymthalas.4019]

+1 no minis in WvW

[Sinmir.6504]

What if a squad leader could check a box that disables minis for followers in a squad? You join, your mini disappears, comes back automatically when you leave the squad. Might see some limited use in PvE, I sometimes see before tequatl people requesting you hide minis, even though it will be automatically when the population rises enough.

If a solo player wishes to run with a mini in WvW, their choice. Enemies can see it, to them it appears as a green dot on the map that could be mistaken for an ally. If they are happy with that so be it. If you had the option to have a mini free squad, would practically solve any problem with minis in WvW.

I mean, if they really wanted to troll they could leave the squad but follow the tag with a mini. But if somebody is trying to troll the squad they can probably do worse than that to cause problems.

[jaif.3518]

14 minutes ago, Sinmir.6504 said:

I mean, if they really wanted to troll they could leave the squad but follow the tag with a mini. But if somebody is trying to troll the squad they can probably do worse than that to cause problems.

 

Yes, they should just turn off minis in groups.  As you say, there's far worse a solo player can do if they put their mind to it, and if a solo player wants to show-off their mini, I'm fine with that.

[jballstars.8219]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:08 AM, SweetPotato.7456 said:

No.  sometime people do use miniature for fun in WvW, it is not just YOU YOU YOU. there are people doing other stuffs. like a Quaggan walk about at the last day of link and the start of a relink and i want to have my quaggan mini when i am in quaggan form

I wholeheartedly support your quaggan cosplaying.   Sorry though miniatures do not belong in WvW.   Lag is a big battle in WvW already.  There is absolutely no need to have miniatures so folks can abuse them in countless ways. Yes that effects your creative abilities but there are other places for you to conduct these shenanigans.   What server are you on , I would love to see your quaggan walk?    

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 minutes ago, jballstars.8219 said:

I wholeheartedly support your quaggan cosplaying.   Sorry though miniatures do not belong in WvW.   Lag is a big battle in WvW already.  There is absolutely no need to have miniatures so folks can abuse them in countless ways. Yes that effects your creative abilities but there are other places for you to conduct these shenanigans.   What server are you on , I would love to see your quaggan walk?    

 

You are good to suggest, Sweet is good to counter with the why they do what they do. I don't run mini's but to be fair to others that don't post I will also share their rhyme and reason. Have known people that will use mini's to act as lures that draw people away and act as bait so they can attack a larger side while they have less. Forcing the stow removes tools from smaller sides in using tools they might be able to use to fight more with less. Again we have tools to cover this issue already, removing options from players toolkits is never good idea. So again, we have bigger fish to fry don't distract the resources from larger goals.

On the issue with lag, Anet's network code is actually pretty good. I play on what I call a paperclip connection (3 MB down/ 1 MB up, 175-500ms ping) and am amazed how well it plays with so little up/down connection speeds. In three way fights people will complain about lag and I am not seeing it. Drive speed is important and before DX changes CPU speed was highly important and after DX GPU impacts things. So I wouldn't use the mini's as a red herring of lag issues as much.

[SweetPotato.7456]

2 hours ago, jballstars.8219 said:

I wholeheartedly support your quaggan cosplaying.   Sorry though miniatures do not belong in WvW.   Lag is a big battle in WvW already.  There is absolutely no need to have miniatures so folks can abuse them in countless ways. Yes that effects your creative abilities but there are other places for you to conduct these shenanigans.   What server are you on , I would love to see your quaggan walk?    

If people don't know how to check/uncheck a box to stay safe, they deserve to die.  There are plenty more things that need fixing, for instant someone on the Maguuma server is FLYING into Bay (there is a video of this on youtube, I am not saying just for fun).  Alt account spying - afk at spawn.  I think miniatures should not be a problem. 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by SweetPotato.7456

[Sahne.6950]

My Catmander will never stop leading the masses!

 

How dare you take "SirZergsalot"🐈 from me :C    I dont give a hot kitten, if someone knows my location, as long as i am with my furry friend, they can come right at me and receive their daily dose of slapping!

 

 

[Luthan.5236]

They should just turn them off. In PvP afaik they stay at the spawn. I mean: WvW ... is just bigger numbers = already a lot more to handle for the computer. We do not need unnecessary stuff like miniatures as well. 😄 That way the game is friendler to people with older computers. (People that might just play GW2 not wanting to buy a better computer cause they do not really need it if not playing a lot of other modern games.)

Edited October 27, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

there's no valid reason why anet didn't disable minis ages ago in wvw. lag is often enough very bad... and their only "fix" sofar was to remove very few NPC animals, probably most in empty spots where nobody ever fought ... or green ones, like ekko, who never would cause lag as nobody fights in RBL mid normally nor in water, like wtf are they just smoking

[Poisonfrog.9812]

On 10/22/2022 at 1:17 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

And did you choose to turn it off or leave it on? And if so either way, why if you don't mind me asking?

Oh, when that happens I turn it off.  I knew enemies using minis to track was a Thing, the first time I followed a zerg with a mini out they explained to me.  I just like to use minis in pve so it's easy for me to forget to turn it off. But I'm not sure how my experience relates to people being asked and not doing it? 

[Poisonfrog.9812]

On 10/22/2022 at 1:17 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

And did you choose to turn it off or leave it on? And if so either way, why if you don't mind me asking?

Oh, when that happens I turn it off.  I knew enemies using minis to track was a Thing, the first time I followed a zerg with a mini out they explained to me.  I just like to use minis in pve so it's easy for me to forget to turn it off. But I'm not sure how my experience relates to people being asked and not doing it? 

[Strider Pj.2193]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:53 AM, MintyMin.2718 said:

I agree, The presence of a single mini will get a 50 strong squad wiped. No minis please.

Regardless of the hiding minis or not, if one mini gets your 50+ squad wiped, you were going to get wiped anyway.  

[TheGrimm.5624]

So the tools are out there to deal with the issue. If they code for this further, how about after we get other changes that are pending in place first. 

[ZTeamG.4603]

No, I like having my mini with me in WvW 

Keeping minis on (especially the more visible minis) is a valid strategy to assert dominance over enemy players.  

  

Also, I hate to break it to you, but minis are not the reason ViP loses blob fights. Maybe back in the days of 18 second stealth pushes you could make a case for minis giving away zerg positions, but nowadays stealth is so short that anyone half awake can tell where the stealth pushing zerg is at.

[TheGrimm.5624]

25 minutes ago, ZTeamG.4603 said:

No, I like having my mini with me in WvW 

Keeping minis on (especially the more visible minis) is a valid strategy to assert dominance over enemy players.  

  

Also, I hate to break it to you, but minis are not the reason ViP loses blob fights. Maybe back in the days of 18 second stealth pushes you could make a case for minis giving away zerg positions, but nowadays stealth is so short that anyone half awake can tell where the stealth pushing zerg is at.

 

Had known a prior thief player that wouldn't use minis except in WvW. They would activate and stealth near a zerg and then go on what they called a 'fishing campaign' to see how many they could bait and hook away from the zerg.