Dragon's End is still massively overtuned and random

[Silent.6137]

1 minute ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

It's the culmination of the entire main story line of the game for the last decade? Do i really have to point that out?

And you want it to be as "cookie cutter" as the rest of the metas from the culmination of a decade? Yes, you don't find it fun. We already discussed that. And you think it's too difficult, complex, or whatever. And we already discussed that. The only thing I can see from all your comments is you're unwilling to give the various suggestions given a try.

24 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

eod has mostly catered to hardcore players with its more difficult content.

What exactly do you mean by hardcore players? I don't find EoD harder than any other maps. Metas harder? Other than DE meta, not really. Mobs tougher? Nope. What exactly are these more difficult contents?

[Firebeard.1746]

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The culmination of the story line is within the story instance though. And imo because it is the latest meta event after the game kept going for a decade it would be severely disappointing if it was as faceroll as some of the other events are.

It doesn't feel the same in an instance as opposed to the event itself but okay. There's just as many people if not more that are disappointed about the current state. 

[Firebeard.1746]

3 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

And you want it to be as "cookie cutter" as the rest of the metas from the culmination of a decade? Yes, you don't find it fun. We already discussed that. And you think it's too difficult, complex, or whatever. And we already discussed that. The only thing I can see from all your comments is you're unwilling to give the various suggestions given a try.

All i'm seeing here is you didn't read my posts. I've done these suggestions it's not worth it.

 

5 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

What exactly do you mean by hardcore players? I don't find EoD harder than any other maps. Metas harder? Other than DE meta, not really. Mobs tougher? Nope. What exactly are these more difficult contents?

If i had to guess people that are obssessed with doing something most people won't do. I mean you can pretend it's not harder but i'm sure the numbers say otherwise, especially about de. Anet has the numbers i'm fine with being wrong and they can do whatever they want. 

[Sobx.1758]

20 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

It doesn't feel the same in an instance as opposed to the event itself but okay.

But if you wanted a culmination of the story then that's what the culmination of the story is and you have easy access/completion of it available to you at any time. Otherwise, this is one harder meta event after 10 years of the game being out. That's about it.

20 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

There's just as many people if not more that are disappointed about the current state. 

Baseless. (and tbh not sure how is this supposed to be responding to anything I said, why do you keep trying to cover your own opinions with things like "but OP said..." or "but majority thinks what I want them to think" [although you have no stats about it available])

Edited December 24, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Hesione.9412]

I did DE twice in the last week. The first attempt failed, we were about 10% on the health when the timer ran out.

The second attempt succeeded, but we had less than 2 mins on the timer. I have been in many more successful DE metas than fails, and I cannot think of one where there was more than 7 minutes left on the timer. 

The number of side swaps last night was >10. Getting really tired of this rng.

 

[Silent.6137]

4 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

All i'm seeing here is you didn't read my posts. I've done these suggestions it's not worth it.

 

If i had to guess people that are obssessed with doing something most people won't do. I mean you can pretend it's not harder but i'm sure the numbers say otherwise, especially about de. Anet has the numbers i'm fine with being wrong and they can do whatever they want. 

I did read your posts, all of them in fact. You seemed to mainly join pug groups and fails. You experienced a few successes, I assume, with more organized groups from LFG? Why is it not worth joining organized groups that will see little fails? You don't have to do anything differently except put in a few extra minutes farming the map, which you would do anyways farming other maps.

I'm not pretending anything. Always hated that word when people use it in discussions. That's no different than calling someone a liar because they have different opinions..

Anyways, tell me which events are harder and I'm sure I can come up with tons from any map that are just as hard. Before you do it, I'm not talking about Core Tyria which are designed for leveling and are not level 80's maps.

 

[Kozumi.5816]

8 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Fair enough, but have you ever considered that what you want might be in direct conflict with what the game might need to survive?

This game is kept alive by it's casual player base who enjoys easy open world content. Dragon's End is the polar opposite.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Kozumi.5816]

9 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

You don’t have to do the meta to get the turtle. There are often new players in the squads when I do the meta. 
Not everyone cries for days because he failed an event in a video game. 

My mistake, it's been so long I had forgotten they added another way. There's still collections etc tied to the meta, though.

[Silent.6137]

7 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

My mistake, it's been so long I had forgotten they added another way. There's still collections etc tied to the meta, though.

No collections are tied to the meta except one part that requires doing the Kaineng Strike mission.

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

This game is kept alive by it's casual player base who enjoys easy open world content. Dragon's End is the polar opposite.

Existance of DE meta doesn't somehow nullify the existance of other OW content nor is it somehow inherently bad for the game just because you don't want broader range of content in the game.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

It's the culmination of the entire main story line of the game for the last decade? Do i really have to point that out?

The culmination of the main story occurs in a story instance, not this meta. This meta exists as a harder, multiplayer, version of the story instance. It exists to add variety because a soloable, easier, version already exists.

[Zero.1028]

EoD content is easy compared to HoT content. Most of the complaining comes from people who don't have a proper OW build which isn't hard or expensive to make. There's a wide variety of builds out there that'll keep you alive, hell I run my raid build which has no survivability and I'm fine. To relate casual players to EoD being hard is an insult to casual players because I guarantee you anything that most casual players do EoD just fine because they actually have a build that can keep them alive. This is just plain lazy and being bad because you can't put in any effort. 

[mandala.8507]

Since a lot of people seem to think "just a little bit of extra effort" is enough to succeed in this meta, here's a fail from today:

There's nothing I could have done to turn this from a failure to a success. We had good organization, a decent number of squad members knew what to do, we even had okay dmg honestly, but we didn't have good cc, shotcalling was too indecisive, and we had no stab, add control, or decent healing.

On top of that, we had bad RNG with the mechanics.

There's really nothing more to say except that I think the fight is tuned for a fantasy of what the game could be, not reality. It would be nice if this was a consistent meta that could be tackled with a mixed-skill and mixed-knowledge group of players, but I just don't think it is. And it's too important of an encounter to sacrifice to the hardcore players. Sorry. Any of the other metas in this expansion you could do that. It wouldn't matter. Keeping this one the way it is is a critical error, and a lot of damage has already been done.

I wouldn't hold it against any player who gave this meta 2 honest shots that ended up complete disasters like this one and those failures ended up being the deciding factor for why they couldn't get behind the expansion. Completing this encounter is an essential experience for this expansion and it has nothing to do with how hard it is. It being hard isn't even fun for hardcore endgame players like myself because I'm sweating in open world on a full dps build with no agency or utility just praying that my squadmates are actually going to support me so I can carry us to a kill.

Watch the last 20% phase for a good laugh at me getting bounced around the platform and doing no dps because I'm not allowed to bring an open world build with actual agency into this fight because everyone wants to run subgroups.

Nor am I allowed to actually see the adds and have more than 20 frames because the game prioritizes me seeing my squadmates over the void monsters eating my lunch.

[Baseleader.4128]

3 hours ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

The "have to use lfg to win" complaints really made me scratch my head. Sorry havent we been doing that since Teq?

HoT lfg have 3-4 comms in the same map for what purpose? To get as many players as possible for each lane for each required mechanic, DE is just doing the same thing

"Require boon" this is what i would consider legit but i have said many times, just click on trait that give everyone boon no gears change needed

Man I'm so glad someone finally brought this up because it's strange to me how people ignore it. Gw2 has been a game where you need the LFG to succeed metas for quite a while. People seem to pretend that 13 newish players can randomly come by Chak Gerent in TD and without any communication or "proper" builds kill it, which is simply not the case. The truth is that 1-2 maps that get 4 commanders and taxi people in through the LFG kill it, if you don't get into this map you don't win. Similarly with Tequatl, Echovald, Death-Brander Shatterer, Drakkar. 

 

Obviously you could randomly find yourself in this map and just join in, but you can do the same thing if you're lucky to randomly wonder in the map where a DE LFG is taxing into.

 

The truth is that the hardcore/optimized/veteran players have always been carrying metas through Commanding, taxing, giving boons and doing higher dps, this isn't a new phenomenon. DE just pushes it all a little further.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

There's nothing I could have done to turn this from a failure to a success. We had good organization, a decent number of squad members knew what to do, we even had okay dmg honestly, but we didn't have good cc, shotcalling was too indecisive, and we had no stab, add control, or decent healing.

So the group failing mechanics fails the event? Sounds... right, for a change instead of being "show up and you succeed anyways"?

[Baseleader.4128]

12 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

Watch the last 20% phase for a good laugh at me getting bounced around the platform and doing no dps because I'm not allowed to bring an open world build with actual agency into this fight because everyone wants to run subgroups.

What do you mean by this?

[Zero.1028]

2 minutes ago, Baseleader.4128 said:

What do you mean by this?

They're basically blaming the game for not knowing what their dodge button is

[Cyninja.2954]

55 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

This game is kept alive by it's casual player base who enjoys easy open world content. Dragon's End is the polar opposite.

When pairing and tracking the revenue generated with content delivered, your claim does not hold up.

You are free to keep believeing what ever you want, just saying that looking at quarterly reports for multiple years, this claim seems untrue.

The game has done best financially when it was delivering more than just easy open world content. That's also why the studio has been trying to find a way to deliver multiple types of difficult content wise for over 3-4 years now, starting with IBS strikes and ending with EoD so far.

Again, the games financially weakest time was while the studio was focusing on only easy open world content, during a time where the dcontinued development of the game was at question. We literally have developer quotes supporting this situation (and a season 4  finale without cliffhanger to show for).

That is not to say that easy open world content has no room. It certainly makes up a large part of this games appeal. It's just not the backbone on its own you might want to believe.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

17 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

When pairing and tracking the revenue generated with content delivered, your claim does not hold up.

You are free to keep believeing what ever you want, just saying that looking at quarterly reports for multiple years, this claim seems untrue.

The game has done best financially when it was delivering more than just easy open world content. That's also why the studio has been trying to find a way to deliver multiple types of difficult content wise for over 3-4 years now, starting with IBS strikes and ending with EoD so far.

Again, the games financially weakest time was while the studio was focusing on only easy open world content, during a time where the dcontinued development of the game was at question. We literally have developer quotes supporting this situation (and a season 4  finale without cliffhanger to show for).

That is not to say that easy open world content has no room. It certainly makes up a large part of this games appeal. It's just not the backbone on its own you might want to believe.

Hmm i dissagree .

The longest time for the revenue loss  was with HoT after Wing 2-4 was released . The only other quarter was with the content draught at the end of the PoF i think.

If hardcore areas was the backbone of the game , then the company wouldnt stop releasing them 

 

(so old now that people are no going to use Bladesorn + Engi (easy LI builds) , there is no need to push the idea any longer . Lets postpone it ot the other expansion . Lets create 2 more in the next expansion and play the long game .We should had let me keybind Macros around the auto-attack..)

Edited December 25, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

If hardcore areas was the backbone of the game , then the company wouldnt stop releasing them 

And they didn't. Partially hence this thread (at least you, OP and so on seem to be equating it to that)?

Edited December 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Cyninja.2954]

35 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Hmm i dissagree .

The longest time for the revenue loss  was with HoT after Wing 2-4 was released . The only other quarter was with the content draught at the end of the PoF i think.

The content "drought" after HoT was due to the developers working/reworking HoT open world content. That is open world content and story related and most likely the studio not having enough resources to start working on living world season 3 towards the end of HoT development (and explains the rushed state in which the end of HoT was/is).

Wings 1-3 where according to developers done mostly during the development of HoT.

There was almost no open world content drought after PoF. The next living world episode released around 4 months after the expansion. If you want you can go check the wiki for the respective release dates, it's all recorded there.

Revenue continually declined during the release of Season 4, post PoF to the lowest in the history of the game. That was also the time where nearly no instanced content was released (or anounced), or at the very least the content release time for instanced content went up significantly.

You are gravely misremembering.

35 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

If hardcore areas was the backbone of the game , then the company wouldnt stop releasing them 

I never said that hardcore areas where the backbone of the game. Read again.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[mandala.8507]

34 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

When pairing and tracking the revenue generated with content delivered, your claim does not hold up.

You are free to keep believeing what ever you want, just saying that looking at quarterly reports for multiple years, this claim seems untrue.

The game has done best financially when it was delivering more than just easy open world content. That's also why the studio has been trying to find a way to deliver multiple types of difficult content wise for over 3-4 years now, starting with IBS strikes and ending with EoD so far.

Again, the games financially weakest time was while the studio was focusing on only easy open world content, during a time where the dcontinued development of the game was at question. We literally have developer quotes supporting this situation (and a season 4  finale without cliffhanger to show for).

That is not to say that easy open world content has no room. It certainly makes up a large part of this games appeal. It's just not the backbone on its own you might want to believe.

Wow, you love making claims out of thin air, huh. Took a colossal success for the game driven by compelling art, characters, classes, and narratives and attributed it to the fact they made okay strike missions to go with it. The game is doing well in spite of the errors in direction when it comes to difficulty, not because of them. EoD would have done even better had they not sacrificed the pinnacle climactic open world battle sequence to the difficulty snobs. It was quite literally their biggest controversy on launch and they had to bring it down significantly. Now that high-investment players are there less and less to carry everyone, it's time to bring it down again. It's not an approachable fight and you shouldn't have to do outside research to participate in the keystone meta of an expansion.

And this isn't the focus of this thread, but strikes would be doing better if the CMs were more forgivably tuned and designed as well. Harder has never been better for Anet. Good has been better. You're conflating the 2.

[Cyninja.2954]

Just now, mandala.8507 said:

Wow, you love making claims out of thin air, huh. Took a colossal success for the game driven by compelling art, characters, classes, and narratives and attributed it to the fact they made okay strike missions to go with it. The game is doing well in spite of the errors in direction when it comes to difficulty, not because of them. EoD would have done even better had they not sacrificed the pinnacle climactic open world battle sequence to the difficulty snobs. It was quite literally their biggest controversy on launch and they had to bring it down significantly. Now that high-investment players are there less and less to carry everyone, it's time to bring it down again. It's not an approachable fight and you shouldn't have to do outside research to participate in the keystone meta of an expansion.

And this isn't the focus of this thread, but strikes would be doing better if the CMs were more forgivably tuned and designed as well. Harder has never been better for Anet. Good has been better. You're conflating the 2.

 

and you are free to believe this and rage as much as you want against the developers decisions. I honestly couldn't care less.

[LadyKitty.6120]

48 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

Since a lot of people seem to think "just a little bit of extra effort" is enough to succeed in this meta, here's a fail from today:

There's nothing I could have done to turn this from a failure to a success. We had good organization, a decent number of squad members knew what to do, we even had okay dmg honestly, but we didn't have good cc, shotcalling was too indecisive, and we had no stab, add control, or decent healing.

On top of that, we had bad RNG with the mechanics.

There's really nothing more to say except that I think the fight is tuned for a fantasy of what the game could be, not reality. It would be nice if this was a consistent meta that could be tackled with a mixed-skill and mixed-knowledge group of players, but I just don't think it is. And it's too important of an encounter to sacrifice to the hardcore players. Sorry. Any of the other metas in this expansion you could do that. It wouldn't matter. Keeping this one the way it is is a critical error, and a lot of damage has already been done.

I wouldn't hold it against any player who gave this meta 2 honest shots that ended up complete disasters like this one and those failures ended up being the deciding factor for why they couldn't get behind the expansion. Completing this encounter is an essential experience for this expansion and it has nothing to do with how hard it is. It being hard isn't even fun for hardcore endgame players like myself because I'm sweating in open world on a full dps build with no agency or utility just praying that my squadmates are actually going to support me so I can carry us to a kill.

Watch the last 20% phase for a good laugh at me getting bounced around the platform and doing no dps because I'm not allowed to bring an open world build with actual agency into this fight because everyone wants to run subgroups.

Nor am I allowed to actually see the adds and have more than 20 frames because the game prioritizes me seeing my squadmates over the void monsters eating my lunch.

To be honest, at least that failure was almost entirely on the squad by missing the vital mechanics. Of all the CCs, only one was successful and esp. around 70% and 18%, tail was up for 100+80 seconds (that's 3 minutes) which led to losing 120 seconds worth of DPS compared to going for it right away (and in successful runs, you only ignore the tail if boss is within 3-4% from phasing (6% is doable IF the squad successfully CCs) and squad is doing good DPS). If people had gone for the tail right away in both cases, it would've been a successful run.

Also, a thing to note: if you have pulls, they're super-useful even during burn phases if there's adds around. Yes, using them would be about 2-3 seconds of personal DPS lost per phase but 1 less knockdown/back alone pays it back. Esp. important during that last 20% indeed. And if there's Thornhearts up, they must die ASAP. No questions asked. If squad doesn't kill them, they keep bombarding everyone to death as seen from ground literally having been yellow during last 20% on that one due to 2 Thornhearts murdering the squad.

And third thing is: being clear about splits makes things faster. And it's not like communicating the splits is a purely DE thing. HoT metas (esp. Octovine and Dragon's Stand) pretty much require somewhat even splits and communication about burns or peoples' disappointment is immeasurable and their metas are ruined.

Tl:dr Gotta get those breakbars to make DPS a lot better and also gotta get that tail ASAP if not close to phasing. Kill Thornhearts, pulls be nice, communicate splits. That's what every successful DE is made of.

Ps. As a tip from fellow mesmer player, Distortion and Bladeturn Requiem (F5) are total haxxors for getting thru mechanics without stopping DPS. Kitty spams them whenever big mechanic is coming for big deeeeps.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

22 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The content "drought" after HoT was due to the developers working/reworking HoT open world content. That is open world content and story related and most likely the studio not having enough resources to start working on living world season 3 towards the end of HoT development (and explains the rushed state in which the end of HoT was/is).

Wings 1-3 where according to developers done mostly during the development of HoT.

There was almost no open world content drought after PoF. The next living world episode released around 4 months after the expansion. If you want you can go check the wiki for the respective release dates, it's all recorded there.

Revenue continually declined during the release of Season 4, post PoF to the lowest in the history of the game. That was also the time where nearly no instanced content was released (or anounced), or at the very least the content release time for instanced content went up significantly.

You are gravely misremembering.

I never said that hardcore areas where the backbone of the game. Read again.

Hmm

 

Kozumi.5816 said:

This game is kept alive by it's casual player base who enjoys easy open world content. Dragon's End is the polar opposite.

 

Cyninja.2954 said:

Again, the games financially weakest time was while the studio was focusing on only easy open world content, during a time where the dcontinued development of the game was at question

 

Moron-Me said:

Activly when the where releasing Wing 2-4 amist the expanion- focusing hardcore stuff .... had the longest drop in revenue .

 

So conclusion , having hardcore stuff dont increase the revenue and the game is kept alive by easy stuff and casuals

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940