Benie.9312 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Now I'm all for fairness and balance, when used correctly (aka, things making sense). But the flying mounts of GW2.. do not make sense. And I'm talking about their inability to stay in the air (while moving horizontally) for an extended period of time. This should be explained with some lore, such as "they're young, so they don't know how to properly fly yet" or "the air in Tyria is thinner, and they can't breathe at higher altitudes. Aka why they can't fly high". The only one that actually makes sense is the first one.. IF it wasn't for the Skyscale's flight range bar. Because it defies other logical reasons like "the air is thinner, and with them being young they don't have the air capacity in their lungs to stay high up". Nor does it explain the biggest offense I've seen yet: the Skyscale's Wall Grab mastery causing cooldowns and its Endurance bar to pause until you let go, which was never documented in the wiki. 😑 (If it was, I guess I overlooked it and that would've been my fault for not squinting trying to read the fine print?) And no, I don't wish to join the wiki's editor team to make changes like that. I get it, ANet. It's 'balance'. Probably their attempt to separate them from WoW's flying mounts. My problem is I'm too spoiled by those mounts, that I just can't believe all flying mounts in every game weren't like that. And the fact they enforce their BS in the worst ways possible (the aforementioned Wall Grab mastery). But again, I'm all for balance.. if it's used right. But this isn't! And I wouldn't care if they never added flying mounts. I was actually shocked they even have mounts at all, as the last time I've been playing was 7 years ago (and we had to walk everywhere). Just came back 3 months ago....Or have they explained this back then in an article anywhere? Now I am aware of the Griffon's swoop ability, but to me that isn't a true replacement for normal flying. All I really ask for, is a dev to respond to this (why I'm posting here instead of the unofficial GW2 Discord server) with a reasonable response of why they did flying mounts the way they did. And that would end this discussion. 4 2 3 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) Griffon can stand high in the air while going forward, you need to keep alternating between going up and diving though. Why not "just permanent flying"? Probably because it nullifies gameplay, so to speak. Also boring.  7 minutes ago, Benie.9312 said: Nor does it explain the biggest offense I've seen yet: the Skyscale's Wall Grab mastery causing cooldowns and its Endurance bar to pause until you let go, which was never documented in the wiki. 😑 Um... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skyscale#Wall_clinging "The skyscale can cling to walls by holding W, or activating autorun. While clinging, the Endurance bar and the flight meter won't recharge, and skills such as Bond of Vigor will have their cooldown frozen." Edited December 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758 10 3 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya.9075 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 33 minutes ago, Benie.9312 said: All I really ask for, is a dev to respond to this (why I'm posting here instead of the unofficial GW2 Discord server) with a reasonable response of why they did flying mounts the way they did. And that would end this discussion. They talk about the fly limit at 51 minutes here 5 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 31 minutes ago, Benie.9312 said: This should be explained with some lore It isn't explicitly stated in the lore, but if you really wanted to headcanon why Skyscales suck at staying in the air long-term, you could always point to their origin: Creatures inexplicably pooped out of the Mists after the passage of Kralkatorrik through the realms. When we first discover this mount, it's being born, rapidly aging, and dying and it's only because of the intervention of Gorrik and the commander that the species is saved at all. In essence, they're made of (and eat) destabilized Mists woobles, so just about anything goes with their lore. From a game design standpoint though, balance and design are the reasons they (and the Griffon) have that handicap. They could have given us a true flying mount, but that's not what they wanted. Griffon was meant to be a swift and sharp glider (and can go a long while if you get enough height and make use of the dive/rise) and the Skyscale was intended as a quickly ascending helicopter capable of effectively maneuvering across irregular terrain. These were the gameplay goals, not persistent flight. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Â 13 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arianth Moonlight.6453 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 the more I use the Skyscale the more I like it but yeah, its inability to keep its altitude is annoying. With the jade bot, the Griffon can stay in the air for a while tho, just need to spam the space key a lot. 3 2 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexterousGecko.6328 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Benie.9312 said: I get it, ANet. It's 'balance' I have doubts that you do, because no amount of head canon is going to be a better answer than 'balance'. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyr.9387 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Skyscales... aren't dragons in the usual sense of the word, even though they actually might be dragons lore-wise. And this association does them more harm than good, it seems. In practice, they're cats with wings. Physiologically - and assuming Tyria has the same general environmental conditions as our wondrous Gaia - a creature of that size most likely wouldn't be able to do either the terrestrial OR the aerial stunts we see skyscales perform due to the usual suspects as bone structure (birds usually have hollow bones to allow flight; ground-dwellers have them "solid") or aerodynamics (animals capable of "permanent" flight are relatively tiny when their wings are not taken into account, and their magnificent wingspans - or other ways they "cheat" physics - are of such note exactly because of that contrast, and skyscales theoretically don't have enough wings to be able to do as much as they already are doing to begin with). Now, we could go with the cheap "but magic". Which, without further understanding of its inner workings, can be refuted in the same manner. So let's not go with the cheap "but magic". Obviously, from the perspective of design, what you do not give is as important, if not more so, than what you do give, which is why we can have all these mounts that objectively suck at everything besides one particular thing and feel they're the best mounts in any game to date. They talk about it in the Guild Chat episode Freya linked - thanks for that, by the by - that the main idea of mounts isn't making the landscape irrelevant, but the interplay between the terrain and the player; mounts are an aspect of the game, not just less convenient, re-skinned waypoints. And that's a beautiful thing, because we need that contrast - we need limits, lest everything become a primordial soup of edge-less grey goo. Â 1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said: Um... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skyscale#Wall_clinging "The skyscale can cling to walls by holding W, or activating autorun. While clinging, the Endurance bar and the flight meter won't recharge, and skills such as Bond of Vigor will have their cooldown frozen." I understood it, in the context of the thread, as Benie wanting an explanation for why basically resting on a wall would counter-intuitively be draining energy. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said: I understood it, in the context of the thread, as Benie wanting an explanation for why basically resting on a wall would counter-intuitively be draining energy. It's not draining energy, it just doesn't restore it. I understood it as the effect itself not being documented in the wiki, but maybe it is indeed in the meaning you're talking about. The explanation there still doesn't need to be lore-based for me, it's just something that impacts the desired gameplay pattern of the mount and something OP said he understands: balance. If OP wants "everything to makes sense lore wise" and "losing altitude while moving makes no sense when skyscale can hover in the same place infinitely", let's just say balancing it out can work in a completely different direction than he's wishing for. Want that flight to make more sense? Ok, can't infinitely hover in the same place now. Now the question is: does OP really value lore justification enough to be on board with this one? 😅 Edited December 31, 2022 by Sobx.1758 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyr.9387 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: It's not draining energy, it just doesn't restore it. I understood it as the effect itself not being documented in the wiki, but maybe it is indeed in the meaning you're talking about. The explanation there still doesn't need to be lore-based for me, it's just something that impacts the desired gameplay pattern of the mount and something OP said he understands: balance. If OP wants "everything to makes sense lore wise" and "losing altitude while moving makes no sense when skyscale can hover in the same place infinitely", let's just say balancing it out can work in a completely different direction than he's wishing for. Want that flight to make more sense? Ok, can't infinitely hover in the same place now. Now the question is: does OP really value lore justification enough to be on board with this one? 😅 Different strokes for different folks, as the saying tends to go. Can't blame Benie too much, either, considering it requires the smallest off-hand line from Gorrik or Taimi mentioning some contrived magical impairment, cleaning the storytellers' hands in a grand total of six seconds. But yeah, it should certainly flow both ways - reminiscent of Raven's questions in his Bjora sanctum. Speaking of which, wonder if the most elegant lore-friendly solution wouldn't be simply switching the functionality - so the bird mainly flies and the dragon rules the skies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftFootpaws.9134 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) Griffon can fly indefinitely without ever landing or losing altitude, it just requires a very high skill level. Â Skyscale is stated in lore to be a cousin of dragons and drakes, and most of them can't fly. Even the mighty wyverns, which are second only to elder dragons and dragon champions like Glint, can fly for very short periods of time. Saltspray dragons are only shown to hover above the ground in End of Dragons, and its the same for many non-dragon species like harpies to do little more than hover. Â Infinite flight isn't common in the real world either and many non-bird species are just jumpers or gliders. Have you thought about how much strength it takes to carry both yourself and a person? Edited December 31, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crono.4197 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) Another "Guild Wars 2 is not like my favorite MMO" post. Yes, just what we needed. Let's not accept that each MMO is different and has its own flavour, instead let's complain that we want it butchered and turned into another generic WoW copy. Edited December 31, 2022 by Crono.4197 13 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindust.7059 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Considering that it's already possible to use griffon to ascend indefinitely by dismounting, using gliding booster and remounting, then doing parabolic flights while waiting for the cooldowns, I don't see a reason why they can't just make the process less annoying. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 I like griffon and skyscale in their current state, I see no reason to change anything. 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith.4650 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 GW2's mounts are critically acclaimed for some reason(s). I like them the way they are, both mechanically and lore wise. I'll respect you have a different opinion, but you shouldn't base that, like others have mentioned, on the fact another MMORPG you enjoy does it in a certain fashion. Not to mention said MMORPG went out of its way recently to copy paste GW2's flying mounts. That should tell you something. Like with the roller beetle, the more you learn about the skyscale and griffon, and employ their skills in a refined mechanical way, and learn from experience, the better you'll get at it, and the more rewarded you'll be. It's basically active versus passive gameplay stance. Fluffy has been griffon flying for one year now. Â 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 12 hours ago, Benie.9312 said: Now I'm all for fairness and balance, when used correctly (aka, things making sense). But the flying mounts of GW2.. do not make sense. And I'm talking about their inability to stay in the air (while moving horizontally) for an extended period of time. This should be explained with some lore, such as "they're young, so they don't know how to properly fly yet" or "the air in Tyria is thinner, and they can't breathe at higher altitudes. Aka why they can't fly high". The only one that actually makes sense is the first one.. IF it wasn't for the Skyscale's flight range bar. Because it defies other logical reasons like "the air is thinner, and with them being young they don't have the air capacity in their lungs to stay high up". Nor does it explain the biggest offense I've seen yet: the Skyscale's Wall Grab mastery causing cooldowns and its Endurance bar to pause until you let go, which was never documented in the wiki. 😑 (If it was, I guess I overlooked it and that would've been my fault for not squinting trying to read the fine print?) And no, I don't wish to join the wiki's editor team to make changes like that. I get it, ANet. It's 'balance'. Probably their attempt to separate them from WoW's flying mounts. My problem is I'm too spoiled by those mounts, that I just can't believe all flying mounts in every game weren't like that. And the fact they enforce their BS in the worst ways possible (the aforementioned Wall Grab mastery). But again, I'm all for balance.. if it's used right. But this isn't! And I wouldn't care if they never added flying mounts. I was actually shocked they even have mounts at all, as the last time I've been playing was 7 years ago (and we had to walk everywhere). Just came back 3 months ago....Or have they explained this back then in an article anywhere? Now I am aware of the Griffon's swoop ability, but to me that isn't a true replacement for normal flying. All I really ask for, is a dev to respond to this (why I'm posting here instead of the unofficial GW2 Discord server) with a reasonable response of why they did flying mounts the way they did. And that would end this discussion. You and your gear weigh a lot. Flying while carrying a heavy burden is apparently too much for the poor things. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent.6137 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 36 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said: You and your gear weigh a lot. Flying while carrying a heavy burden is apparently too much for the poor things. Are you suggesting he loses some weight? 😲 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einsof.1457 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 This isn't wow. And that's a good thing. 15 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfshade.9251 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 15 hours ago, Linken.6345 said: Â That's not flying that's gliding with style! (Jk) Really impressive manoeuvres., shows what this mount is truly capable of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurxbr.2614 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) I'm just going to leave this here. https://youtu.be/UbfkC36GRWw Edited December 31, 2022 by Arthurxbr.2614 Fix video link 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberkingkong.8041 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 18 hours ago, Linken.6345 said: Â We need more racing events. Racing should yeild rewards too like PvP WvW JPs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 18 minutes ago, uberkingkong.8041 said: We need more racing events. Racing should yeild rewards too like PvP WvW JPs They do have you never done a griffon race? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberkingkong.8041 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Just now, Linken.6345 said: They do have you never done a griffon race? Asking for more 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 7 hours ago, Silent.6137 said: Are you suggesting he loses some weight? 😲 Could be, could be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, uberkingkong.8041 said: Asking for more Well anyone want more for the same work pretty sure noone would say no to that. Your post sounded like races yielded no rewards tho. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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